Has COVID changed your outlook or goals? I'm not sure if it's the WFH or COVID itself but I've found myself questioning whether I want to work 80 hours a week and be limited to certain cities. I think about where I'd really like to live and enjoy my life. It's also made me think a lot about starting a business and working for myself.
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Yeah I hate liberals significantly more than I did before
We are in the MIDDLE of a fucking Pandemic! Mask up! You are going to a crowded bar? Yikes!! It's not worth the risk. Stay safe. I get a vaccine to keep people like you safe. Just two more weeks. Trust the science!
*Sponsored by Pfizer
The ratio is inspiring tbh. 6 months ago I'd have got 60-40.
This ratio is inspiring going into ‘22 and I think will only grow stronger into ‘24. Huge thanks to left wing nut jobs for your performance over the past 2-3 years. You have guaranteed a Republican house/senate this year.
All time opportunity driven into the ground by the democratic party. Imo could've had a pretty dominant 2022 if they didnt shoot themselves in the foot over and over
My boy I thought you was gonna get ratio'd fr
Lmao sounds about right.
"Let them riot, it's for a good cause so who cares about regular people and property owners"
"Lockdowns for years guys, it's the right thing to do"
"Eliminate the filibuster and pack the court with new justices because things aren't going our way for once in the past 5 decades, waaaahhhhh"
Yea... the clock doesn't stop, ya know? How much life do we give-up before getting to live it?
Believe me you’re not the only one thinking this way. Just look at the labor market. The world is changing and advice from those who achieved success in the past or even just 10 years ago doesn’t apply today.
Tbh has me considering a career switch to tech or big data.. only a matter of time before the finance boomer bosses have us back in office 5 days a week
At this point in my life I just want a job that allows me to work remote, and have my job “done for the day” when I leave.. not having to constantly check emails after work and always worrying about live deal fire drills that could’ve been avoided if people weren’t idiots
You really think Finance will transition back to 5 days in office? I kind of doubt it. Even 3 seems like a max in my opinion.
I work in AM, so not IBD, I was in an internal call the other day and my firm are planning to pay 60% of the living costs to have our junior employees close to the office to come in 3-5 days a week, emails went out November and most are up for it. I think my firm just really values in-person collaboration however. I'm kind of indifferent however I must say working from home gets incredibly incredibly lonely.
What would you do in tech?
I think Omicron will effectively crush this. Several of the banks committed to permanent WFH flexibility of at least a hybrid model...it will become a massive competitive disadvantage for JPM / GS over time if they forced in-person 5 days a week
I know of several AM shops that actually are now permanently WFH...could never have imagined this before. Definitely a huge net positive as I'm questioning if I want to stay in the city I am LT vs going back to my home city. Top talent wants to work flexibly from anywhere and the floodgates are now open. RIP to those who don't adapt
IMO Hybrid and growth of WFH was inevitable, but COVID brought this forward at LEAST 10, maybe 20 years. Like you said, it's now a competitive disadvantage to do 5 days in.
As someone somewhat early in career, it's incredible that 5 days a week in office will likely be a thing of the past
yeah. think everyone is in the same boat.
I have even less confidence than I used to have in PhDs trying to direct public policy on the basis of complex mathematical models.
Our society is completely fucked. It’s like being in a real life version of the movie “they live” except you don’t need special glasses.
yeah it's a total joke!
I have much less trust in sentences that start with "studies show..." or "according to experts..."
Also lose respect for people who just blindly jump based on how high the CDC says
This 100%. These two years have taught me to discern opinions from facts. It’s a very liberating feeling to cut through BS at a mindset level.
Bump
Yes, I have lost all trust in mainstream media.
Yeah, a few things.
1) I don't know what to believe in the media anymore. Take vaccines, for example. Both anti- and pro-Covid-19 vaccine persons have spread so much misinformation that it's extremely difficult to decipher truth from fact. I always kind of believed that was true with mainstream media, but the last 2 years have opened my eyes that all media is prone to deception and half-truths. I guess I had rose-colored glasses on.
2) With respect to work, I was definitely in the camp that office worker production would be far worse teleworking than on-site. Turns out, production has been just fine. I REALLY don't see the point in full-time in-office for many (most?) office workers. That said, it's sad because the workplace used to be one of the top places people would meet their SOs. My parents, for example, met at work. The telework trend really does feed into the destructive, corrosive Tinder-style dating atmosphere.
3) For me personally, I moved out of my long-term home to a really nice, historic town an hour or so away and I've started collecting 19th century real estate while I telework. In fact, there's a good chance I'm going to start a job next month at an office 5 minute walk from my townhouse with a 20% pay increase. Covid has exacerbated the divide between the haves and have-nots.
4) The Western democracies are full of petty tyrants who enjoy wielding arbitrary power over people--and that doesn't just include elected officials. That includes career bureaucrats, voters, and individuals. The past 2 years have been illuminating and a reminder of why the American founding fathers were so adamant that democratic processes were necessary evils that must be limited to the greatest extent possible.
If democratic processes are necessary evils, then who should have the franchise (right to vote)? Do you disagree with the direct election of senators? Which processes should be made less democratic? Cheers
Actually, I think for the most part, America's checks and balances held up fairly well. Federalism allowed for some states and localities to act like deranged lunatics while others didn't. Courts prevented some of the worst abuses, though they definitely failed early on. The American system didn't have protesters beaten in the streets and people jailed arbitrarily as in some other places.
My point is, the last 2 years were illuminating and provide greater insight into the brilliance of those who formed our system.
Buddy in office relationships were dead well before the COVID pandemic. MeToo era and sexual harassment fears are to thank for that (rightly or wrongly). The trend of people meeting SOs in the office and views on poentially meeting a partner there have been declining for years leading up to 2020
Well, it's certainly accelerated the trend in the last 2 years to the point where it's virtually completely gone for office workers.
On your second point, definitely great for your parents that they met in the office but it would be pretty brutal in today's #metoo culture. Obviously everyone should be respectful and no one should tolerate Weinstein shit, but I'm not sure I'd even be comfortable asking out a girl from work. If they slightly spin it and report to HR, you as a dude are f*cked. HR will never take your side and your career there may be finished. Even if you survive, there will be those who will always look at you as if you did something wrong.
100% agree with you on your point on Tinder. I think to really successfully date in the modern era, you should try to meet people offline vs online for exactly this purpose. Also makes you get out of the house and develop hobbies. Some options include: church / mosque / etc, rec sports leagues (kickball is a big one), friends of friends, meetups, etc. I'm actually Indian btw, my parents met via arranged marriage. While I still could not stomach doing the same (meeting once before getting married), I'm definitely open to the modern version of it (parents connect you, you guys date for a year to see if you're compatible and if so get married afterwards). Used to be vehemently against this back when I was younger but the older I get and the worse dating gets (i.e. apps) I've come to realize that you've got to aggressively take control of your life and run towards your happiness. I'll probably still use 1-2 apps but nice to know there's another option to explore if needed, sadly not an available route for most young men in America.
Also I'd asked you about effects of porn in another thread -- I could not agree with you more. Most people will fail in trying to quit but I do know a few that have made it out and are in much happier relationships. It's an addiction no doubt, there are some who are strong enough to break it if they can produce a very good reason & stick with it. That said, it's not ok that this is even an issue men should have to deal with. We are being psychologically manipulated to do it & our minds think they've won the evolutionary lottery seeing all these porn stars when it fact we are only damaging ourselves. My rec is jerk off if you need to, but without porn. Our ancestors for hundreds of generations did jerk off, just not with porn suggesting that porn is the problem vs. masturbation (assuming in moderation, maybe 1-2x per week or less).
I may look back on this time period as one of the best things that's ever happened to me. it's sad that so many died, but the combination of WFH and other things allowed me some tremendous personal growth. so here's some reflections from the past 2y, still a work in progress
so yes, covid did change my way of thinking a bit, I think for the positive mostly, and I'm excited to see what the future holds
edit: interesting enough, I had covid when I wrote this, thought it was a cold initially because of a false negative, had 2 positive tests after writing this and my having the disease doesn't change one iota of this. for me, it was a cold, I've had sinus infections and bronchitis that were far worse. not a big deal at all for me
thanks bro!
With respect to #5 on your list, you wouldn't have the luxury of such thoughts without 400 years of the "Protestant work ethic" building civilization as we know it.
and that's part of the ambivalence I'm feeling. it's inarguable that hard work has accomplished so much for society and the world and I think that everyone should be free to work as hard as they want to. my question is more in the vein of "is this really the only way?" and "is this right for me?"
admittedly, it's still an unanswered question, but I hadn't ever asked it pre-covid
The issue with the Protestant work ethic isn't that hard work isn't beneficial, it's the theological underpinnings that say working hard is a sign that you are part of the Elect. Tying hard work to self-worth, religious or otherwise, is a dangerous precedent because hard work in and of itself doesn't mean anything. You can work extremely hard and be successful, and you can toil endlessly and be stuck in the same place; there are all sorts of factors outside of your control that dictate the outcomes of any given effort. Effort shouldn't be valorized for its own sake but for what comes out of it, working 80 hours a week for work that could have been done in 50 or 40 isn't inherently better.
.
Yeah, the people I know who were happy and successful pre-pandemic are absolutely crushing it now, and everyone else is getting left behind.
As a chronic procrastinator and someone who hates their job, this legitimately scares me, because there's nowhere for me to hide - I'm expected to be intensely focused all day.
This "accelerating hyper-specialization" trend is worrying at a societal level as well, for two reasons:
"May you live in interesting times" is actually a curse...
Naval had a great quote something along the lines of “the future of workers will be highly technical, highly interpersonal, and or highly creative”. I think this trend is growing and I really don’t see a way to stop it.
I procrastinate a lot too, but my friend got me into listening to Tim Ferris and there’s lots of content about it. You don’t need to be hyper productive 24/7 either.
What languages?
And smart on the social media. I should do the same. Grant me strength
Spanish and Italian
You might have a 7 figure salary, but if your skillset doesn't include waging guerrilla in warfare, you are a cowardly slave like everyone else
Dude, what????
Masks, endless injections, no gym, gender pronouns, bugs as food, CRT education, empty shelves, insane energy prices. These are just some of the deranged changes to our lives that have been shoved down our throats in just 2 years.
Anyone claiming 4 years ago that this was going to happen would have been laughed at as an equivalent to Alex Jones. I'm a very cynical person and that might be my own personal flaw, but is money worth this shit? How much is your compliance to increasingly dictatorial demands over your personal life worth? When enough is enough?
I fucking hate the future.
Even DEVGRU runs into issues with one determined person with a PKM. All this ninja BS is a lie. Sure, some tactics are more effective. But it’s not some super clean CQB low ready vs high ready precision stuff. So if you think everyone needs to train in small unit tactics, that’s a bad take imo.
The US military, which is the most powerful at the moment, relies mostly on our technology (owning the night), air superiority, and incredible logistics.
here’s an interesting podcast:
I'm a simple guy who looks at results, like Afghanistan. Only those who can replicate what Talibans did can consider himself a free man.
A 4-hour video??? C'mon, son . . .
It made me absolutely detest liberals
I am not liberal by any means (my biggest flaw being my elitism), but I don't really get this talk of detesting liberals. I'd much prefer their exaggerated rhetoric and performative actions over a strict anti-science stance by most conservatives. That being said, I understand that most of WSO's users are dumb as hell* so I understand why most liberals and conservatives on this website can only see in black or white views.
Biggest takeaway from COVID is how important time is. You really don't get that back. The last two years, I have not been able to see my grandparents due to COVID and now they're dead. Couldn't hug them. Couldn't say goodbye to them. Couldn't even go to the funeral. I really fucking hated myself for a bit. I'm planning on leaving finance soon - I want a WLB and spend more time with my parents.
"I understand that most of WSO's users don't come from top colleges so I understand why most liberals and conservatives on this website can only see in black or white views."
Congratulations on putting forth the most insanely idiotic comment of the year on 12/27. Nice buzzer beater.
Was following the exaggerated rhetoric worth it? You'll never see your grandparents again. You could have worn an N95 and seen your grandparents in-person had this been a red state. You could have gone to funeral had it been a red state.
No, but they live in another country that was going through one of the worst outbreaks, so I could not get into the country despite their conservative government at that moment and they still require 10 days quarantine when you enter now. Trust me, my family tried everything from begging to bribing but nothing worked.
Honestly, compared to other countries, our lockdown was relatively lax.
Wtf is an “anti-science stance.” COVID has made the word “science” very triggering to me.
science and policy are completely different beasts and only those with agendas care to mix / co-opt the two. Seriously, sciencists can tell you a fact like “eating more calories than you burn creates weight gain and risk factors.” Policy can say “we’re banning sugary drinks to prevent such impacts.” If I disagree with the latter I am not “anti-science,” I am pro liberty. Your take is reductionist AF and shows deep lack of critical thinking and nuance which is unfortunately all too common. Also “science” isn’t a thing. There are scientists and fields they study but the monolithic view of science again is naive and dumb
You're an idiot if you haven't realized how much liberalism has decayed in the past 2-4yrs. I would have considered myself a liberal 5+yrs ago but now there isn't even a speck of intelligence in the measures they are trying to put forth. Liberals have completely ignored financial incentives and think they don't matter anymore ("Why not raise marginal tax rates to 70-80%? Why not raise cap gains to marginal tax rates? Why not eliminate the filibuster and increase the number of justices to pack the court, surely that would't hurt our democracy?")
Alt right has always been dumb (not the right, the alt right), but at least transparent. Liberals these days try to disguise everything they do and pretend they're on your side while causing this country to go to sh*t.
Even this website has had a marked shift towards thinking about geographies post COVID that was virtually non-existent before COVID.
Pre-COVID it used to be NYC/LA (and maybe CHI as T2) and that was it for the places to be. Sure there were heavy taxes, sure the rents were high but these places were the centers of finance, arts, and culture, and the idea of living somewhere else would have been laughed out of the room on this forum.
Post-COVID the number of threads talking about LCOL cities and general COL have become a new facet of this forum that didn't exist before. The lockdowns, reduced capacity, mandates, rising crime + homelessness (don't cite me 1970s figures to justify) have really led a lot of finance minded people to question whether these cities are worth it long term anymore. The appeal for NYC/LA came from the ease of access of social experiences and when these experiences were cutoff, the value add quickly vaporized. The analyst years are probably still worth it, but after that the idea of moving somewhere else has become a lot more appealing.
Yes,
- im tired of having to take a covid test to go to the gym and
- I have decided that when I build my forever-home, I will build a gym with a "gym house" next to it with all the slickest and sickest equipment you can get and have a cleaning lady in there every 3 days
- and also a private 25m pool
- and a sauna
yes, that will be it thank you very much
LIIIIIIIIGHT WEIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!
Make sure to throw in a few flat screen TV's blasting "Pumping Iron" 24/7 ;)
Made me completely distrust the media and both political parties for good.
I seriously don't understand how the world isn't furious with China.
I mean they crushed covid and only have 5K deaths so...... lol
Edit: Apparently people can't realize satire.
has this data been externally verified? if they're going to still lie about things ranging from accounting figures to mass starvation during Mao, I have little trust they're being honest about covid
then again, maybe welding people's doors shut has a purpose, if you can't see them, you can't count them
…for the horrific management within the first weeks of publication (which even then was weeks after they internally noted several cases of an unknown respiratory illness) and the complete hnwillingness to work with the WHO on investigation. We will never know the origin of the pandemic because the CCP took every measure possible to bury and alter key evidence
Well if you're white collar Covid has been a major positive for you. You are no longer constrained to certain geos for work, this is HUGE. I am spending 4 weeks at home with my parents (2 weeks break, other 2 weeks working). This would never have happened pre Covid, would have taken at least a decade or maybe two in a conservative industry like finance. I can work for other AMs that are offering permanent WFH positions, again never would have happened pre Covid....now I can live in a geo I actually like LT. This labor shortage & great resignation has also led to a power shift from capital to labor, my comp went up meaningfully last year in a way that would have been impossible pre Covid (as it did for many others). Inflation ate some of that up but either way it's a much bigger base to which we can leverage for another position (and in a lower COL city which means you can actually see those dollars drop down to bottom line).
Didn’t think I’d live through a near post apocalyptic zombie plague in my life time. Sure hope this is the worst we’ll ever bear in the foreseeable future.
Not necessarily a way of thinking but I've learned how to be an introvert and with my own thoughts for an extended period of time.
Absolutely. We learned that America is the most individualistic and selfish country on the planet, and that millions of our citizens won't make the slightest personal sacrifice for the betterment of their neighbors. We've learned that many of our "pro-life" neighbors have deemed the elderly, overweight, and those with pre-existing conditions - a plurality in this country, as wholly expendable.
We learned that millions of conservatives have become radicalized and call for Civil War, because they were asked to wear a mask before grocery shopping, their favorite club closed for a few weeks 18 months ago, and we've added one additional vaccine to the ~10 others required to join a school or the military.
We learned that the toxic right wing media bubble and a president more concerned with his approval ratings than raising the alarm on the virus has led to a massive anti-vaxx culture that has led to 100,000+ unnecessary deaths. These same people barely passed high school science and have now decided they know more than trained epidemiologists in the most tragic example of Dunning Krueger-Darwinism the world has ever seen.
We faced the ultimate wartime challenge of our generation, and we unlike our grandparents and great grandparents, we utterly failed.
Could any more lockdowns or compliant citizens (after 2 years of this) have stopped Omnicron, which has an R0 of 10?
No, and I’m not concerned about omicron. We haven’t had “lockdowns” since the spring of 2020. COVID protection measures were effective while we awaited a vaccine, and a pro vaccine messaging campaign have been effective where tried, as evident by the fact that the top 10 states for COVID deaths per capita since vaccines were available are all Red states.
I learned Stoicism and have inquired rather seriously into Catholicism and less seriously into Orthodoxy since it began. I have yet to decide between the two. Like many here, COVID led me to question many things about the culture I inherited. It seems to me the only place where answers can lie is in the past.
Good to hear brother, Covid has also brought me back to religion as well. Used to be moderately religious, then left the faith for 5+yrs as agnostic and now am back at moderately religious - this time however, with stronger fleshed out views and greater appreciation of my faith
My honest, controversial opinion - and I may get flack for this - is that I think religion is necessary for the healthy functioning of society over long periods of time. The community, foundation of moral principles, and willingness to accept that it is not all about you & that there is a superior power (humbling to do) are all crucial elements that I don't believe can be maintained without religion at a broader level. That said, I want to be very clear -- I've never forced my religion (or religion in general) down anyone's throats and I never will. Ultimately comes down to your personal decision, these are just beliefs I've formed over heavy introspection
I had a similar path. I think Saint Augustine said it best: "You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." And then just scale this phrase up to the level of a society, compare our current situation to the last 6,000 years of civilization, and it is pretty self-evident what is going on.
The only rational response to this crisis of modernity is to dive into faith imo. Everything else seems to feed back into this strange modern complex.
it has reaffirmed the polarization and divisiveness in the USA
and it also raises questions whether authoritarian states like china with free markets will be able to dominate the world in a far better way
I also witnessed that people distrust science so much
can anyone fucking explain how NOAH'S ark repopulated the world and how he got kangaroos in the middle east
for people who don't believe in science, the next time when they need heart surgery they should visit a pastor
I hate the liberals more
they are the most hypocritical people ever
liberals think homosexuals and Islam is compatible there is nothing stupider than that
liberals have the most fucked up version of freedom of speech (in which only their speech constitutes as right and everyone else is an idiot and should be canceled)
audacity in these guys who canceled JK rowling
can we just believe in science, the only actual thing that has made us so successful as homo sapiens
Amen. I used to feel a sense of national identify and pride in being American....today given the absurd levels of polarization I wonder if there is even such a thing as being American aside from one's passport. As you point out, it has also given a huge leg up to argument that centrally controlled states like China can do better than divided democracies like America. I would not have agreed with this statement pre Covid but given how they've handled the pandemic, accelerating pace of technological change (which centrally controlled states can more rapidly address -- see social media regulations), and ability to bring people together through a national identify (i.e. nationalism in China) I think the latter will have the edge in next century.
Liberals also will support you when you support their views but as soon as you have the slightest disagreement they will attack you in a pack (as you point out with JKR). Honestly let them pretend to love homosexuality and Islam as you put it, they're total hypocrites and I hope they end up choking on their own crap
I read an article that had the same basic premise as the OP and the quote I remember - and that I identify with - was, "I always knew the world had crackpots and weirdos, I just never realized I was friends with so many of them".
In addition to that, I would say that my level of empathy for any unvaxed dying from Covid is less than zero, couldn't possibly be any lower. Your fatass uncle with the 10 pre-existing conditions didn't get vax because of the "damn gubment" and died? Fawk you. Send me the address so I can go piss on their grave.
Why do you care enough if someone unvaccinated died from covid that you want to piss on their grave?
The media
In the future people are going to be hugely regretting that more people didn’t die from covid due to how underfunded our pensions and entitlements are.
I've felt dumber since I had COVID exactly a year ago. I've started completely losing my train of thought in the middle of conversations, and forgetting basic words (spent like 5 minutes trying to remember what snow was called). Most of the other changes in how I think are due to health stuff tied to being less active since I'm not walking miles each day.
Try using some reishi mushrooms. You can order them on Amazon.
I was deliberating the same, but trying to survive in a high COL city with an internship that barely pays above the living wage settled it for me
1. I realized I need to spend more time thinking about ways to fill my free time. I've never had more free time these past two years and it was candidly a challenge to fill that time with activities and personal goals, etc. I think I realized even more that there are two types of men: those that can't wait for retirement and those that dread it. I think I dread it even more now.
2. Relationships and experiences matter exponentially more than possessions ever will. You could fill your house and garage with gucci sleds and lambo convertibles, but if you sit in your house alone, you're the poorest person in the world.
3. I have even more faith in and respect for science. I hope the text books 50 years from now look back at this pandemic and say damn it was amazing they were able to develop a life-saving vaccine that quickly. If this virus hit 50 years ago millions of more people would've been dead. We should all appreciate more the wonders of scientific progress. It boggles my mind that we do not spend more time and money propping up the institutions at the leading edge of scientific progress. We just sent out a multi-billion dollar telescope that has the capability to look back all the way to the edge of the universe. Shit like that matters.
I have had these thoughts too, i mean i don't know about the certain cities thing as many banks are in multiple cities . But as far as the hours i think the money and experience is worth it while you are young and then you can choose your path as you get older and if you want to get into a less demanding role then you can vs if you do something easy now and wanted to switch to IB at say 40 it would be very hard. Plus our generations lifespans are expected to be very long so i think sacrificing a few years while younger to be guaranteed well off is still a good trade.
while this isn't a change in my thinking, this thread has certainly made me realize that compassion, empathy, understanding, humility, and kindness are all having a worse year than cathie wood
c'mon people, let's come together
Like WFH more.
Want to work outside the US ASAP.
Actually considering doing something in crypto but prob will miss out because of my risk tolerance.
Gov has too much control and cops don't have enough checks and balances (international travel taught me this).
Reading studies from scientific journals instead of listening to the news is like reading the 10k instead of The Motley Fool.
I hate the left and the right more. Especially the left.
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