Should I pursue a long-term relationship with this girl for FU money?
I have had an on-and-off thing with this girl for about 3 years now. I am 24. She is one year younger and we met in college. She has always wanted a relationship with me and has been incredibly forward about this but I just don’t see it in her. I have honestly hurt her feelings a lot over the years because of this.
Wealth: 11/10 She has fuck-you generational wealth. Her family is worth $500mm+. I’ve spent some time taking vacations with her and it shocks my mind every time how happy her money makes me. I grew up middle class, parents doing a little better now, and will inherit a few million at maximum.
Looks: She is a 7/10 or so. She is fit and skinny but not incredibly pretty, because she doesn’t do the heavy makeup, dressing slutty, and overindexing on looks thing. She has a sister who looks very similar to her raw without makeup except her sister overindexes on looks, dresses slutty, and looks like a 9/10 with makeup so I know the potential is there. Don’t tell me to date the sister, I have very good reasons not to.
I am not a “Chad” nor am I very attractive but given I go to the gym 4-5 times a week, work in finance in New York and my primary hobbies are social in nature, dating has not been too much of an issue and I could probably pull a hotter girl stable enough for an LTR, especially in a couple more years.
Politics: 9/10 She is politically moderate / leans conservative and doesn’t care that I’m moderate.
Personality: 5/10 Here is the issue. I think because of her upbringing, she is a little basic and shallow when it comes to making deep intelligent fulfilling conversation that I have been able to make with other women in the past and it feels like we have a gap in our understandings of each other. We don’t connect great in my opinion, but in her opinion obviously we connect great. Her interests are just not my interests, her views are just not my views, her feelings are just not my feelings. However, as I age past college dating (where if you went to a good school you were lucky to be surrounded by attractive, smart women) I’m realizing that it’s incredibly difficult to find someone who completely fulfills you intellectually and has the other qualities you want. The other issue I have is that I am still in a phase of my dating life where I am attracted to and connect best with toxic, drama-causing, broken women who are unstable and will ruin your life. She is not that and I think I am less attracted to her personality as a result of it.
Wifey Qualities: 9/10 She is incredibly kind, caring, loving, stable, communicative, and everything else you would want from a partner. I am much less of these things than her. She also hasn’t slept around which I value.
Please advise. I know this sounds shallow but when historically most marriages amongst the rich and powerful were organized solely for money and power, is it really that wrong to consider?
Pretty sure a lot of "I am not a “Chad” nor am I very attractive but given I go to the gym 4-5 times a week, work in finance in New York" will give you great advice!
Based on your description I would definitely commit to a relationship with her.
What exactly makes you say this?
You can always jerk off.
Probably not worth it dude. Do you really see yourself waking up next to this girl every single day for 50 years and having her raise your children? When you are going through hard times, do you want her to be the one that comforts you and says it’ll be alright? $500mm (which will probably grow to $1-2bn at least) is great and your kids will be loaded and you will be able to spend your summers in ridiculous villas in the South of France, but what then? I’ve seen people be madly in love, and while I don’t have that yet, that’s what I want. Just an anecdote, but my friend’s mom married for money (>$1bn) and has all the material things in the world, but she does not strike me as happy at all.
Do you think the women who aren’t happy in those situations do it to themselves?
Also I would still pursue my own career which I am very ambitious about. I feel like that helps and gives me something to focus on whereas a materialistic housewife sits around all day depressed.
Per Perplexity query, 4,500 people, or 0.0013% of Americans have >$500mm. When I look at like that, I see where you're coming from. Just date her and be the perfect guy. If you really want to uplift your family and live the high life, this is the easiest way to do it (unless you want to wait until you're 50+, or more realistically, never). I wouldn't do it, but nobody will blame you. Just don't complain to anyone when you're 35 and still can't have the level of conversation that you desire with the person you'll spend more time with than anyone else from here on out...
Depends on your personally philosophy on why you struggle? What means what to you? Great you get to eat caviar. Why do you care?
Points to consider:
What does her family think of her dating below her social status, specifically her Dad?
Do you want a large family? If the answer is no, so you just want to use her to move up social ladder and eat caviar?
Why would you concentrate on your career when everything can be handed to you? Heck, $10 mil, I retire and play guitar all day.
How will this help you in your spiritual growth?
Do you believe you will be a role-model father in such a situation?
If you are having doubts the answer is no
Sounds like you found a gem of a girl but you're not ready to commit to a serious long-term relationship with a wholesome woman because you're still in the party phase. I would be straight up and tell her you're not ready for a long-term relationship right now. Down the line if you decide you want to settle down, start a family etc. maybe revisit the possibility, but right now it's obvious you want to fuck around even though you've found someone with great qualities (wealth being a bonus). Be clear with your intentions and don't string her along.
Ok so leaving my commitment issues aside and pretending they don’t exist, would you still recommend the same thing?
Also, about commitment issues and me still being in the party phase, isn’t the best way to get over them just to see and force myself to date more stable women for longer? Like exposure therapy. You don’t want to eat broccoli as a kid but your parents force it down your throat until it starts to taste alright.
The best way to get over commitment issues is to look at what you actually want out of life. It's clear to me that you don't know what you want from life. When I realized I wanted kids, dating women who wanted kids with the end goal of having kids became clear to me. I knew at that point that dating women for the short term would never get me where I wanted to be.
You're attracted to unstable women because they don't know what they want, and you don't know what you want, so as a result your views on your future align. But as a result of this, you'll never truly discover what it is you want long term, and will perpetually find yourself with women who only live for the moment, and these women are shallow, vein, and selfish.
So, take time to discover what it is you want. Do you want a power couple? Traveling? Kids? Where do you generally view yourself in 5, 10, 20 years? What is it that you can do to help your future self the most?
It's not an issue related to women. It's purely internal. You don't like this girls personality not because she has a bad personality, but because she has a personality that screams "I'm a safe person you can plan a future with" and that internally scares you more than anything. Why? Because you don't know what the fuck you actually want. If you knew you wanted 3 kids, a suburban white picket fence with a dog and weekend soccer games with your kids, would you still think her personality is grating? I doubt it.
You should probably let her go. She deserves someone who is on the same part of their life as she is, and you need to figure out where you want your life to go before even considering dating
what’s her @? (asking for friend)
"Oh no my steak is too juicy and my lobster is too buttery"
Truth is the personality thing will grate at you. A lot. You are on and off with this girl right now and even those smaller doses of exposure are telling you that it's tough. Imagine this for the next 6 decades....
Let her go man, it's really not fair to you or her. You know how this will end either way. If you want the toxic girl at this phase, you'll find it very challenging to suddenly be attracted to stability. That will take a long time to work out of your system and keeping her half around while you do try and figure it out will only hurt you both
Ok so leaving my commitment issues aside and pretending they don’t exist, would you still recommend the same thing?
Also, about commitment issues and me still being in the party phase, isn’t the best way to get over them just to see and force myself to date more stable women for longer? Like exposure therapy. You don’t want to eat broccoli as a kid but your parents force it down your throat until it starts to taste alright.
Your issues aren’t why they’re talking about. If you dislike this girl’s personality, that will grate on you every day for the rest of your life.
"However, as I age past college dating (where if you went to a good school you were lucky to be surrounded by attractive, smart women)"
Unfortunately I had this exact opportunity at an Ivy but in many ways did not make good use. Now it's just a matter of cooking up the party type girls or hoping I can settle down with a Ivy girl when I'm older (23 now, so in like 8 years) when she's finished up Ivy...
I don't know what the family does, but lowkey keep it amicable and siphon out a few presents fro yourself... fade away into platonic relationship and... profit??
I guess I’d say I’m just not that materialistic that I care about siphoning a few presents from her. I’d prefer to just date around at that point. It’s generational wealth or bust for me.
I would agree about your point though, feels like we are stuck in between good dating ages where it was easier in college and it will be easier in 6-8 years, but it isn’t as easy now.
If you are good looking the limbo period (to call 20s that is crazy to begin with) will be fine. I do fine in that regard.
I just should of set up more social proof/circles with baddies even if that's not who I would normally connect with naturally (and have deep/meaningful relationships with). Then I could just have 10/10 tail without any effort at all. Now I gotta go deep in the tank/dating apps/cold approach/etc...
The window for those circles seems to have closed for true Vineyard bros/rainmaker parents and not picking up on that fact — the fact that NYC high society opened up early in college (frats, etc) at the target has been and is my biggest regret. Superficial phrasing, I know and I apologize.
You in that boat or got that flashy friend group to call on the weekends?
Ok so I’m at the same point. There is a girl who aligns background wise (my family has very specific type), she went to an Ivy and is going to go to med school. Her dad sold a company for $250m+ in his 20s and they’re loaded. I grew up comfortable, like C suite exec level but nothing close to that. I am into to her lifestyle but she’s a little nerdy and way more into me than vice versa. I’m at the crossroads. Maybe I just get the other stuff out of my system and settle down w her. If she really works on her style and works outs the potential I think is decent, like up to 8 out of ten but she’s sitting at a 6.5. Then again I want to just go date some really attractive girls for now since I’m 25 and doing decent
Did you go to an Ivy and party it up? Depends on if you're still seeking that out or ready to settle up. Or suggest polyamorous moves...
Sounds like we are in similar shoes lol. I will say though, if my chick was anywhere near being smart enough for med school, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. I’d be dating her.
Don't confuse it for intelligence, tons of duds in med school just binge drinking and partying who will probably still end up being doctors
Do not date girls for their “potential if they go to the gym.”
That’s the male equivalent of girls thinking “I can fix him.”
Haha this is spot on. 9/10 it’s not going to work out the way you think
I mean what if she already goes regularly and could just use some guidance to get some more results
Strong disagree. If weight is the major blocker in whether you commit, legitimately just get her on GLPs. Very likely the best investment of your life.
Hard to tell if you mean a real 6.5 or a soft 6.5, closer to 7. I go by raw scores, not 5 is average and 6.5 is a bit above. 5 is chopped to me, 6 is just a bit better. If soft 6.5 I'd say go for it and see if you guys click. But don't go in with the vision for potential 8. Have to be a very good value analyst here and see if she shows traits of high agency willing to transform to that 8 or it'll never happen. Especially not if you yourself don't live that lifestyle like regularly workout and stuff. Consider her build now and what people in her culture and family are like as well. If a girl's mom got curves (the good kind) then she may inherit them too. The opposite is also true.
Being a gold digger regardless of gender is such an unattractive quality in a person. That said... you could do way worse. Not a bad option by any means if you can get past the personality mismatch (which frankly just sounds like you being admittedly immature given the la toxica infatuation).
I dated this asian girl with FU money and she wanted to get married but I rejected her, but now in retrospect I wish I accepted. She was hot with big naturals. I honestly don't know what I was thinking at that time rejecting her.
booba don't make up for other shortcomings but only in hindsight do you realize how fkin rare quality big naturals are
Don't be stupid, get the bag...9 figure women like this that actually like you back aren't exactly walking around all over the place. She'll probably eventually figure out she can do better than you anyway so don't fumble it for a broken drama-filled used up pussy that's gonna leave you holding your dick on a Friday night with 498,000,000 less dollars in your life...
Ask Tom Wambsgans
To answer your question. Yes you’re a worthless gold digger.
If you marry her she will have a prenup which will keep all the money you're excited about away from you, and even without a prenup likely that money is held in trusts that you aren't a beneficiary of so that money isn't yours. So if you're going to marry her for money you better be sure you're not getting divorced because you'll be left with nothing on the other side of that (and actually if you earn money during the marriage she will have a right to that and she'll be able to pay a top lawyer to do her divorce that you won't be able to afford so she'll crush you on the divorce judgement). And even if you're the perfect husband to try to stay married she might just decide at some point to trade up and divorce you anyway. Marrying for money with someone that has inherited wealth isn't a good idea - if you really want to make money through marriage you need someone that's going to earn a lot of money during the marriage (ideally they own significant equity in a company that appreciates during the marriage) which you will be entitled to if you get divorced.
TLDR if you're marrying for money make sure you're actually going to keep a lot of the money if you get divorced, otherwise no point
Any way to protect yourself if you are marrying someone who makes significantly less than you?
You need to talk to a lawyer as laws vary by state but in NY generally speaking it’s going to be very difficult to not have money you earned during the marriage split in half and ongoing spousal/child support obligations based on what I know (I am not a lawyer). A prenup certainly helps but doesn’t protect you from everything. Don’t get married unless you’re sure he/she is the one and always talk to a lawyer and ideally an accountant as well before making big financial decisions; marriage is a big financial decision
Here’s the thing you don’t mention: what do want out of life? If you continue working and making the sacrifices a successful career requires, will she play along? She ok with you canceling events and coming home late because of work? Will she respect that you’re busting your ass to earn what to her is chump change?
I had a much older man I worked with tell me that early in his career he was at a company dinner where a partner was bragging that he’d become a millionaire before he was 30. A junior dude’s rich wife: “so what? I was a millionaire before I was born.” End of her husband’s career at that firm.
My friend’s point was that your wife better be on the same page with you about your career if you want a successful one. Trust fund types where no one in the family has worked for 2-3 generations are not very different from or better than welfare recipients who haven’t worked in 2-3 generations. Both types have case workers managing their lives. Neither type is very admirable.
Tell us: if you marry this girl, what happens to your career? Are you retired on day one of your honeymoon — is your wife ok with that? Are you going to keep working 60+ hours/week and hope your wife is ok with that? And if you let your career slide, what happens if you divorce?
Tbh, she sounds solid but you don’t sound like you’re ready for a serious relationship. You have a chance to make a really good decision. It’s hard to find a young women who doesn’t wear a full face of makeup and isn’t promiscuous. Appreciate what you got and lock it down. But, only if you’re really attracted to her and see her as the mother of your children. Don’t waste your time on toxic woman. It’s not worth losing something good
My wife's family has money, mine does not (at all). Not $500m, but she'll get $5-10m at some point, a lot to me. As someone who grew up lower-middle-class, and was always career driven to escape that life, sometimes it's a little weird when my MIL just transfers $10k to us on a random Tuesday just because.
I'm more traditional and feel like I should be the provider, but that's hard when your wife could get whatever she wants (within reason) without you. Just a different perspective. If you care about being the "bread winner" then something like this may bother you in the future and make you feel irrelevant, no matter how successful you are in your career. And it will come up in arguments...trust me...
Getting cu*ked by your MIl...would read a longer post on this, it seems funny
Brother lock this down, you're insane this is a golden goose.
"I could probably pull a hotter girl stable enough for an LTR, especially in a couple more years."
No you won't. The more years that continue into the future the less likely this will be. It's not about hot girls, there will never be a shortage of those especially in tier1 cities - it's hot girls who aren't BPD and have wifey qualities as you say. If enough things line up in personality then there's no reason not to cuff this girl. She sounds like a perfect candidate for a wife. High chance the girl you like and date and fall in love with ends up meshing with your identity a bit and turning her views and preferences into yours over time. I'm not saying you have to orchestrate this, this just naturally happens. She's only 23, she's gonna change and mature and grow over time especially around and after 25. The wifey qualities you mentioned absolutely seal the deal here in terms of high value in a person and partner. The money doesn't hurt either for sure. I'm very similar to you (albeit late 20s instead of early), definitely not a chad but have what people would consider a chad-like physique, gym 5/6 times a week, make decent money for my age, and love nature. I've dated 9s but none that weren't crazy, don't even know if they exist. A 7 with wifey qualities that doesn't make daily life quarrelsome and goes on hikes with me/likes nature and isn't very superficial/materialistic? Yeah I wouldn't give a shit about her having family money or not that'd be more than enough to propose ASAP for me.
I'd say spend some more time with her and develop this friendship a bit more just to see how much you guys align. If you've vacationed with her already it's a good light test in compatibility, as living together is important IMO. Keep fostering the relationship and see where it leads. I think you've got something good here. Also for what it's worth, most of my friends who had on again off again relationships with girls ended up marrying them. As long as it wasn't toxic then I don't see an issue with it.
The hot-crazy scale is real
No offense but you don't sound like a good catch. She should move on, drop the zero and get a hero.
Think you have some work to do on yourself, Mr. Intellectual Heavy Weight / Goldigger.
What are these hobbies? Does she share them with you?
yes, but have an exit plan prepared i.e. divorce in 4 years and ask for alimony
#1 A 7/10 is adriana Lima so no she’s not a 7/10. You’d be ecstatic if she was.
#2 You stated you’re not Chad and I’m assuming she’s relatively less attractive physically than a few girls you’ve hooked up with. Idk how humble or accurate you’re being. Maybe u have height and race going for u and aren’t a total cuck so you’re like a ~6.
#3 You are pretty dumb I mean obviously money isn’t an issue for you bcs you can leech off your parents so you’re chilling. But you’re clearly conniving and power hungry if you've posted this here.
#4 Morally if you’re posing this question (especially here of all places) your ethics aren’t the biggest issue here. Your entire career on wall st pales in comparison to this one marriage. What did JEE do when Wexner presented him with the world for a few favors? What did Sam Altman do for select YC add ons (2b$) for Paul graham and get a spot at the table with the power of the power brokers in Silicon Valley. Epstein is obviously more enigmatic but Sam Altman is obviously extremely under qualified in every metric for everything he’s done. No one cares about the method everyone cares about the results. Have you read Caro’s books?
Complete no brainer given your ideals and moral compass and other opportunities.
7/10 is Adriana Lima? We’re all fucked then. Who’s a 9 in that case?
Just leave her be man. Imagine she wrote this about you:
Vel illum sed voluptatem nam. Debitis et exercitationem id amet. Quae qui et laboriosam ratione vitae maiores.
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