Probably going to get let go a second time
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The only answer is start recruiting your butt off until your probation ends. You're probably going to need to heavily downgrade roles but it's going to be way easier to find something while you have a job still. I'd look at roles that will be less competitive - FP&A in Tier 2/3 cities, corp finance at small startups, etc
Its crazy, I will be frustrated for the rest of my life in one of the roles you mention
Then do it for 2 years while you work on an MBA application. A paying job is better than nothing
If you've been fired twice from IB there is something seriously wrong. Attention to detail is a completely normal thing for a junior and there's likely something else at play, I would look back over the feedback from both of your prior roles and figure out what you're going to do differently next time to avoid this happening again
This might be tough but if you know you're gonna be that frustrated in a "tier 2" job, why didn't you just work harder on trying to keep this one? Attention to detail is a normal mistake for the first month, but should not be an issue after that. What went wrong?
Why? Because it doesn’t seem as glamorous? Seems like you care more about the appearance of the job than the actual job. You deserve to be fired
OP must avoid the job market at all costs considering the job market is horrible. Take his skills to a top MBA program and just ride out this terrible job market at all costs, even in a T2/T3 city
Well I think it is attention to detail. What else could it be ? I am extremely polite and have a good attitude
This reply tells you all you need to know about this guy
So you’re unskilled but polite. Polite means jack shit unless you’re customer support. Please read what you’re saying
Went through something very similar (although both times were cultural issues, not performance related).
You need do everything in your power to recruit now. It becomes extremely difficult (and nearly impossible in this market) to rerecruit once you’re fired again. You also carry immense baggage as a candidate once that happens. Think about it - Would you want to hire someone who was fired 2x in a one-year timeframe?
If the writing is on the wall at work, you need to move ASAP. If it’s still salvageable, try to save your career by whatever means possible (e.g., don’t go to sleep until you’ve double-checked everything, complete work for the upcoming week on the weekend and take the time to make sure you’ve addressed all comments, etc). Again, if it’s not salvageable, just use the 2.5 months to get the fuck out of that place. In that scenario and assuming you’re not bankrolled by the Bank of Mom & Dad, you’re playing a game of survival, not offense. If the 2 months are up and you land a corporate role, you need to take it. Reality does not care about your passion and CoL burns through money.
These sorts of things set your career back YEARS. It’s not fun climbing back up…
Best of luck, OP. I sincerely wish you the best.
Did you recover from this ?
WIP
Other 2 guys are glossing over the fact you’ve been there under 6 months. Inevitable will get the question of why are you moving again and need to be able to explain that. Frankly I don’t think you’ll be able to have a compelling reason and really need to understand what’s going wrong.
Are your technical skills not at the level of your peers? You say attention to detail but do you know how to do analyses and are people not able to trust uou with stuff? Analysts generally aren’t fired unless they’re value-destructive, so there must be something deeper at play here.
I think it’s because they need to review most things I do and are afraid that there is a mistake so they lose a bit of trust
I also take a bit longer than average to do thing. Sometimes they ask me to do something under a certain time frame and I deliver on time. Other times I might go beyond the initial deadline.
The time they spend reviewing things might be what annoys them as they say they spot things thet shouldn’t be spotting like alignment things (which I have improved upon with a checklist but still happens). For instance last time a presentation that should have taken 3 turns of comments according to the senior took 5 or 6.
Most of the times I am able to do the analysis they ask; at the beginning I took time to learn stuff I had not encountered before like some specific analyses invovling pivot tables and data
This is going to sound harsh, but having things aligned and being trusted to tick through comments are basic competencies of the job. It sounds like you are just not good at this job and that IB isn’t for you (and that’s ok, better to find it out sooner than later)
You should recruit for non-IB stuff as it will be an easier story of “it took 2 tries to realize the job isn’t for me” vs “i got fired twice but want to keep gunning for this job i’m bad at”.
I agreed. He could've cared more and created a checklist to help him check his work every time. Repeated errors and issues w/ attention to detail just show that he doesn't really care or isn't good at this at all. Doing things correctly is the most basic thing about this job
I second the above comment. Not being able to figure a job out the first time around is pushing it. Not being able to get it right the second time is a clear sign that it is not for you. You need to reassess your career plans because the high finance thing does not seem to be your cup of tea. I would not waste more time trying to make it work because you are sacrificing career growth, financial stability, and ultimately delaying major life events because you are holding onto some fantasy of being a bsd finance bro. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
I understand your point but I feel a bit lost in case this happens as I don’t know what else I would do. Finance really is my passion and I believe I am much more interested than my colleagues in the job despite these difficulties with attention to detail
Then you have to work hard to make sure these mistakes do not continue to happen. You can do it, just grind. Salvage this job if it's salvageable, or grind to look for a similar job elsewhere.
How is it your passion and you can’t follow simple directions? Clearly it isn’t your passion. Or you’re just lazy. Which one?
You guys are all wrong about me. I am not thay random underperformer who is just there to collect the paycheck and have no interest in the job.
I just need a chance as eventually i will pick up this attention to detail skills that dont come naturally to me.
I am much more interested in finance, the companies I work with than 99% of my colleagues.
My man - no one is doubting your interest. But just because you have great interest in something doesn’t mean you are good at it. Imagine if you said you were incredibly interested in complex statistics or math, does that mean you should get admission to MIT just because you may be “more interested than your peers”? Of course not.
Stop pushing back on everyone trying to give you advice. You are at risk of being fired - this job is not a fit for you if you lack the bare minimum skills. Go do something else in Finance and get your interests piqued trading your PA or something.
What about finance genuinely interests you? Passion is nice to have, frankly it sounds like you are missing some of the key qualities needed to succeed in this role. I’d take a step back and review the critical feedback you’ve received throughout your tenure to identify recurring themes and work on those areas.
Consulting could be a better fit since it still offers a relationship driven environment without the heavy technical focus. Similar optionality when it comes to exits.
I think you can still make it in the industry and if you truly want to give it 1 more shot than go for it but also continue to apply for many different jobs in other industries in case it doesn’t work out. This recruiting market is terrible to say the least (and that’s putting it lightly) so you want to give yourself as much optionality as possible if you’re out of a contract in 2-3 months.
I had similar issues but around culture / being hired for too senior of roles and it took a couple tries before I got a shot in the right org with the right team to really learn from my mistakes but also get a chance to learn and grow. You need to really make sure you reflect on this feedback as others said and in your next role make that a non-issue (whatever it takes).
I mean this as respectfully as possible, you’ve already gotten a chance, actually gotten two, which is way more than sooo many people could even dream of, and it’s clearly not working out
“I am much more interested in finance, the companies I work with than 99% of my colleagues.”
Then why don’t you pay attention and do your work correctly? Clearly you aren’t interested
Mohammed
how do you have the self awareness to admit this but not to fix it
Bro on god this guy is blind and deaf. He should read what he is typing
I tried but did not manage to change it fast enough unfortunately. I actually think its one of my biggest defects even outside the job, that I am a bit in the clouds
dude, investment banking is the pro league. it sounds stupid but it is. u clearly don't have the ability to play up to the pro level nor the minor leagues. nothing wrong with that but it seems you need to switch sports. attention to detail is probably the most important skill in this job and clearly u dont have it bro.
Fuck you. Who do you think you are ? You are just another number like I was for them.
Just because you are good at aligning logos now doesn’t mean your life will be a straight line, have a little bit of humility.
apparently u can't even align logos tho since u getting fired twice lmao
That's even sadder, you are incapable of aligning logos...might be time to try the trades. I hear plumbers are crushing it these days
I'm going to come into this with a totally different approach here. Y'all can say this is batsh*t crazy idc this guy is probably going to get canned anyway so I figure I might as well give him some advice.
Alright, here's the reality. More likely than not you're getting canned. That's what we can assume so far.
Here's what we don't know (or maybe don't feel the best about assuming), why exactly you're getting fired.
You got two options: try to stick it out, or recruit yet again. As many people above have said, you should probably try doing both to whatever extent you can, fully aware that investment banking is a time demanding job.
Let's talk about the first one: you feel like you're getting fired soon and think it's because of attention to detail issues. The hard reality is that it probably isn't that unless you've worked with some real assholes multiple times over. And from personal experience, whether or not someone gets fired or not is typically a cultural issue or related to how much the team likes you rather than work quality. I've worked with some really bad employees who stuck around because they were nice. I'm guessing it's more than just attention to detail frankly.
I think you gotta do something about this: you should schedule some time with your supervisor or primary "boss" to discuss your situation. Ask in clear terms where you stand. Be clear that you've heard that you might not make it past probation, and that you're willing to change to make it happen if there continue to be issues. If you're told that it's just attention to detail, accept the criticism but probe for a bit more. Ask if others have said things about you or have issues and make sure you're on good terms with those people. Also be prepared to be told something along the lines of "you just don't get it."
Either way, since you're probably getting fired anyway, you end up with one of two situations (i) you get fired, but at least you know with more clarity why or (ii) you've shown your "boss" or supervisor that you're willing to take action and get back on track. For all of the mistakes you've made, this forum often discounts people's ability to improve and grow. Careers are long and even if you're not there today, there's nothing saying you won't be in a year's time.
Now, for the second path: recruit immediately. I would actually be upfront with others that you just don't think banking is for you. The writing is on the wall, so you have to be able to explain it either way to ensure your interviewers or those you're trying to get a job with don't get the wrong impression. I really wouldn't limit where you apply: right now anywhere and everywhere should be acceptable. Many have mentioned FP&A and Big 4 as options and I'll second those. Those are most similar to banking and will give you the skills you need to understand corporate finance.
Immediately when you get to the new job, make sure you have a clear understanding of expectations. Take notes in every meeting you go to, even if it's just you and one other person. Know what your remit is and how productive you are expected to be. Finally, make sure you limit mistakes by employing strategies that ensure success. Checklists are a start and so is printing your work.
Many people on this forum have had to push thorugh challenging points in their careers. By learning from your mistakes early, you can utilize knowledge from this period for long term success. Don't feel bad about yourself. Don't mope. Just act and work like a dog to get ahead. Hopefully this helps.
Great advice. OP, you should listen. Take it from someone who got fired.
THIS is a great comment and has actionable advice. OP needs to read this comment and internalize it
The fact the associate sounds like they're not willing to have your back if it comes to your review, that should be a big concern.
Dealing with a similar issue in consulting and have 3 seniors that have backed up my work to a senior partner who holds the pen on my performance review and a potential PIP around the holidays.
Fired once, it’s probably just a blip, a bad boss, or a bad cultural fit.
Fired twice, and there’s likely something else going on. Perhaps the job isn’t a good fit for you?
Your story reminds me of myself:
When I was in college, my dream was MBB. I was the guy who was always casing, the mentor for all the freshman, etc. But when I got the MBB offer, it was obvious that the job was not my thing. I couldn’t grasp the fluffy/abstract nature of the work. I struggled with designing pretty slides, had no attention to detail, my professional skills were just not there (I was only 22), and I was super overwhelmed. I had a few terrible Engagement Managers too.
I got pushed out by the 1-year mark.
I ended up in a corp strat role that is more operational, analytical, and a more ‘get stuff done’ type of gig (as opposed to abstract fluffy slides). I’m at the 3-year mark there and I’ve gotten multiple raises, top bucket reviews, and a promotion.
This could be you in a few years if you really reflect and focus on what type of role would suit your strengths. If I were you I’d take some time and find the right next step, a role where you can succeed (as opposed to just an IB role bc that’s what everyone else does).
Might be a dumb question but can future employers confirm you were fired / PIP? Or can you avoid that by getting old coworkers that are willing to cover for you as a reference?
In general they won’t tell the reason unless you were fired for cause. What can happen is that you have interviewers in your next job messaging your former coworkers to try to find a specific reason / if they feel th HR of your previous company is not giving a specific reason. This happened in the first job I was fired
You’ll be fine. In background checks, they usually just confirm your dates of work (to ensure you’re not lying on your resume) and that you didn’t get fired for cause (harassment, etc…). Background checks are often performed by third party services anyways.In the interview just make up a story as to why you left. “After 2 years of IB, I realized that it was not what I wanted to do long term for _____ reason. Because of this I decided to take some time off to find the ideal next fit, especially since it’s quite difficult to job search while working 80 hours/week.”Background checks are different than references, where you have to provide people you’ve worked with to vouch for you. The references you give can say whatever they want. References are getting much less common these days unless it’s a smaller company.
Fact pattern + reading this thread with OPs responses indicates to me this is beyond simple performance issues.
Coming from what I would consider a fairly competitive / somewhat culturally intense bank, I have not seen us can analysts in under 12 months unless work was extremely poor (way beyond attention to detail errors) and attitude was bad / major culture fit issue.
Even in cases where work product quality was way below expectations, if the analyst was putting in the hours and generally a nice normal coworker, we’d give them ample opportunities to improve (including increased coaching and really candid feedback sessions where team members would sit down with them and go line by line page by page on deliverables showing where they can improve). Attention to detail errors and the occasional dinged deadline (as referenced above) would not be cause alone for firing within 12 months of hitting the desk.
Feels like either issues were way deeper than indicated or the culture fit was not what OP is representing. Specifically some of the comments around “passion for finance” and “being way more invested in the role” than coworkers leads me to believe that there are probably other factors here.
Would suggest OP opens aperture for what he/she would consider for their next role (think getting a third chance at IB is unlikely) and maybe do some serious reflection on what led them here.
Thanks for your reply.
I think the first time this happened cultural fit might have been an issue. I got along very well with the juniors but there were some things that were beyond performance that also contributed to the outcome which is also what led me to give the job a second shot.
This time, I do not think cultural fit was an issue and in both cases it was not attitude. In this new job, the associate even said to the boss I worked very hard and had a good attitude, which leads me to believe it was the attention to detail but also likely the fact that I take longer to learn things (maybe the ramp up was not what they wanted after these two months). The team is also very small and I think the skills they wanted of a first year analyst was higher than fot an A1 given they do not have structured trainings and time to teach stuff. The HR said they needed someone that was more ready / on par with the expectations.
I was let go a few days ago again. If you have any advice for someone in this situation let me know.
While the first time this happened I was applying an hour later to IB, this time I am more worried as I do not know what to do and believe it makes no sense to try a third time IB (I might not have the personality/ profile for the job is what I take from this). What scaries me now is that I don’t know what to do while last time it was clear to me.
My passion for finance and business remains clear, however. I do not know how where to channel this interest going forward, however.
Just apply to everything under the sun that's finance-related, even if it's IB. I'm sure you'll do alright, just keep at it.
Keep your head up, you’ll get through this!
Just apply to finance related jobs and craft a story that explains why IB isn’t your desired long-term career choice.
great, now you can actually enjoy your life and find something more meaningful that makes more money instead of being an average finance bro. Grats, should have come sooner.
OP you got fired?
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