How to be a rainmaker?
So every trading desk, prop shop, and hedge fund, has that one guy who pulls in 5-6 figures in profit in a day, walks around a big swinging PnL, is a total trading baller in general.
What attribute do these rainmakers have that allow them to trade so much better than others? More diligence? Attention to detail? Better strategy?
I feel like trading is a field where all the good traders are approximately on a level playing field as far as returns. So what allows some ubermensch to show up and dominate the market?
Nobody ever wants to talk about luck and timing since they can't be quantified or predicted consistently.
In general, in life...the more risk you are willing to take on, the greater the potential rewards.
Umm, being a mensch is a good thing. "Mensch" means good guy. I think the word you're looking for is "putz" or "schlemiel"
Or maybe Goyim
Why don't you ask the weatherman?
this is like asking for the secret to beating the market every single year. if we knew it we would be somewhere else, trust me.
MOST guys on every desk pull 5 figures of P/L in a given day dude.
I heard a hedge fund manager on Bloomberg Radio say that trading is intellectual athletics. Instead of competing physically, you compete mentally. So yeah, to be a 'rainmaker', you need to be a nerd. Ever seen Andrew Hall. Not saying he isn't a cool guy. These guys are just smart. They know the markets well. They know how new data points will affect the markets. They keep cool under pressure. They do more of that which is working and less of that which isn't. They are able to respond more swiftly, and hedge more effectively. The market rewards the ideas that work best, and punishes those that don't. Thus, you need to come up with good ideas, and back them with solid facts/rationalizations. Even then you will lose, because (quote Keynes), the market can remain irrational far longer than you can remain solvent.
Well, if its that simple, I guess I should switch careers, lol.
On second thought, I will just put it all on red.
Regards
can someone explain to me how if in the market there is a winner and a loser... every BB has a solidly profitable trading desk consistently? Are they just making money because there is constant forward momentuM?
The BB's make the vast majority of their money making markets. In other words, they do not trade directionally, they trade a bid/ask spread (they will offer to buy or sell most stocks but will buy for less than they will sell for). Then, they hedge their positions with a variety of instruments to reduce risk as much as possible. To say that every trade is a zero sum game is a huge oversimplification.
As far as every bank making a consistent trading profit, that is ridiculous. What brought Lehman down? It certainly wasn't their consistently profitable trading was it?
Let's not get fooled by randomness...
Ubermensch means 'superman' in German, Nietzsche uses the term a lot. Nothing to do with mensch or putz or whatever else, didn't realize there were so many jews that they would read it as slang instead of translate from german haha, you guys have a lot of chutzpah
I think what it comes down to is experience. These people are outliers and have spent 10,000 hours trading before they became above average...
I can't remember where I go this from but, "there are no minor leagues to trading"
These people first, have the genetics and secondly have developed their ability through years of study and hard work.
In my opinion it very much is like playing a sport, but you have to graduate from 8th grade basketball to the ncaa final four very quick in order to make it. Further, as long as you don't bring guns to night clubs once your in the NBA you can take advantage of some pretty steady returns and be a small time baller to a Lebron James/Tudor Jones. Once your in the NBA you can at least make a half mil a year even if you sit on the bench on the worst team.
Don't take on too much risk or your might end up in Jail for discharging a fire arm by mistake.
"Why do you think the same five guys make it to the final table of the World Series of Poker EVERY YEAR? What, are they the luckiest guys in Las Vegas?"
No becuase back then there were only 30 people in the tournement
Hard work x creativity x intelligence = alpha That usually seems to work.
Accelerated Path to Rainmaker? (Originally Posted: 12/21/2009)
Although progressing through investment banking as an Analyst and Associate offers invaluable experience for the VP role, are there alternate routes that can offer more value? In particular, are there certain career paths that will allow a transition back to IB with at least a starting rolodex of potential relationships? I'm talking about hitting the ground running as a VP and being able to bring in 3-4 deals a yr independently on account of who you know.
One thought that comes to mind is doing a stint with the government. For instance, being a policy advisor in an area with heavy regulation such as oil & gas, etc. Perhaps the contacts developed through relations with your minister / legislative body would afford you some business down the road? I guess the key challenge here is would you be taken seriously between the ages of 25-28 in a role with the government (would imagine it would be tough to make an impact or really get your name well-known).
I guess I'm looking at a similar path to Rahm Emmanuel....although the guy didn't know as much as experienced VP's / MD's, he still brought in more cheese at the end of the day.
Interested to hear folks' thoughts on this.
Thanks.
you have to be seriously plugged in for this to happen...if you're born into it or have Emmanuel like contacts you may have a shot...but doing a 5 year stint on the Hill is probably not worth it, or prob won't lead to the rolodex that you want...
I hear you but what about guys like Sasha Jacob in Canada? (see profile below) This guy was not necessarily born with contacts - simply performed well, rose the ranks to become a senior policy advisor and eventually started his own ibank. Now he's got the former premier of Ontario as his Chairman.
Maybe I phrased my question wrong. I guess I'm interested in what role within government is the most appropriate to set yourself up to be the next Mr. Jacob or Rahm E. While I know what their eventual positions were (i.e. senior policy advisor), if you're an associate looking to break into gov't, what would be some suggested entry-level positions that provide some mobility to work your way up and gather some contacts along the way?
http://jacobsecurities.com/our_company_leadership_jacobsecurities.html
Rahm did ballet. You might want to start working on your pirouette.
Fundraising would be the most directly applicable.
Firstly, Rahm comes from a very succesful family, so you can't point to him as a succesful case study.
Secondly, this is ass-backwards. Fundraising is about asking for favors - you are basically saying, asking for favors will put you in a position to ask for more favors.
Third, government work is very boring; especially if you are looking to do it, not because you care about it, but because you want the exit ops.
Fourth, what you are suggesting is both morally and legally wrong; the point of government is not to make friends - hell, that's not even the point of business. If you're not willing to burn some political capital, in business or in government, to get something done, then I certainly hope the guy on the other side chooses you to represent him, because God knows that'll make my job easier.
Fifth, as has been said, the easiest route to good connections is to be born in to them. The next easiest route is to develop them by being, you know, a smart, useful, likeable guy. Probably the toughest and dumbest route is to be a government whore selling favors in the hope of future gratitude.
Finally, my advice for you is that, if you really want to develop relationships, and you're dumb enough that this is where you're looking for advice on how to do so, you should try reading some Dale Carnegie. And probably some of the ancient Greeks as well.
senior treasury or Fed positions perhaps...
I'm trying to figure out the point of this thread. It takes years to develop quality contacts that can actually count for something. Emmanuel was 40 when he was hired by Wasserstein Perella. You'll make MD by 40 anyways if you're good and stick around. Not quite sure how this is an "accelerated path."
If your dad is connected and you were groomed to run in those circles - you'll do well - see the son of Samsung chairman - CFO at like 40
the lack of quality on all these posts is a shame
if you dont have something productive to say just keep it to yourselves....
To restate: It's hard to see how there is more "value" in spending 10-15 years not doing banking (and making less money than you would be making in banking) just to get where you'd be in 10-15 years of doing banking anyways.
Or, restated in corporate finance terms: No arbitrage principle.
ok thats fair.....thanks for the reply....
Work at a boutique that will allow you to meet these types of people...just last week I met and had drinks (I was with other senior bankers from my firm) with the CEO of a ~40B mkt cap company...This doesn't happen everyday, but I'm constantly interacting with these types.
I think my position is rare and it may not be great for the long-term (my job isn't as modeling intense as many others)...hopefully it will
You're asking the internet how to become Rahm Emmanuel?
wow did some dude in the government bang your momma or something?
if they cut your welfare cheques don't take it out on me bud.
go back in time and have loyd blankenfeld do your mom!
Good call on Dale Carnegie. But this guy needs more help than just a book.
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