Right now, I'm a poker amateur, but I want to improve my skills. I found out that poker and trading are quite similar in many aspects. In both games, you take risks with your money. I read Liar's Poker, and I heard about Susquehanna. Should I invest significant time into playing poker as a hobby? I'm sure employers would like to see extracurricular interests besides studying. I was thinking about starting a poker club at university (not betting real money of course) and trying to compete in the World Series of Poker. If I win anything in the future, I'll write about my achievements on my resume, under the "interest" section. I'll list the tournaments I've won and the prize money. In any case, I can still make a few bucks by playing. I'd love to work at SIG. Do employers look favourably on poker? Do you think it's worth investing significant time into poker (without compromising my GPA)? Since poker is a social game, can I also take advantage of poker as a networking tool?
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It's a tricky situation. You don't want to be seen as a gambler outright, usually people share that stuff down the road. Depending on the size and the culture of the shop you'll join, it could be a good idea to mention it in an interview to a dude interviewer. To give you some perspective, I like playing poker and i like gambling. The shop I ended up with plays liar's dice, which is just as fun... but that never came up until only after I got in. Curious what other people have to say...
Lol. I would only put poker on my resume if I were a professional and had some type of account to show my successful track record(implying proper risk management). Otherwise, DO NOT put this on a resume, because it only would show that you are gambling and have no successful strategy or risk definitions.
I agree with you, but there is nothing illegal in this, if you win more than you lose, you know you know a lot about your hobby
SIG exudes poker culture (applying there myself if I don't get the job I'm interviewing for in the next few days). However, if you don't know your stuff they will TEAR you apart. They have WSOP finalists working there. So for them, if you're good, put it on. If you aren't leave it off.
For those above, poker isnt gambling if you know what you're doing. Its playing the statistics with some very important lessons (can lose even with making the right choice etc.).
By listing poker as a hobby on your resume you're telling your prospective employer that you'll be spending a good amount of your time gambling online.
i have seen it listed on resumes for people in groups and shops that this site goes gaga over....some groups and places love it, some are pretty indifferent. in general it's probably only i-banking where it's not going to be a great cultural fit (risk-aversion etc.). I listed fantasy football on mine and got into some pretty interesting conversations during interviews. in a side of the business where you take calculated risks with money on the line, any sort of interest in related games is viewed as a plus.
like all things though, be ready to defend your stuff because there are some pretty intelligent poker players working on the street--Einhorn, Jason Strasser, etc. being prime examples. if you are good, then like all things, list it. if you are not, you will get slaughtered.
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I put poker down on my resume, and I am not a professional poker player. For every trading interview I have had, I have always been asked about it. As people mentioned above just be sure to back it up.
There are quite a few people on wall street that play poker, so it won't hurt you if you get asked about it.
I have only received positive feedback from having poker on my resume. There are many similarities between trading and poker and if poker ever comes up in an interview, be sure to mention some of these:
The ability to adapt to the situation at hand - traders adapt to different types of markets (volatile,bullish,bearish,flat, etc) and poker players adapt to the playing styles of those at their table and the flow of the game
Psychological aspects: To me, this trumps all others. The ability to handle your emotions, i.e. not have emotions, is one of the most important skills in both trading and poker. You can't go on tilt and you can't have an ego. View money as points or chips. You should be able to play just as well as if you got stacked as if you just sat down at the table. Viewing poker as a game of mathematical probabilities helps with this, as it does with trading.
Poker teaches you how to plan. You don't make a trade without having a plan (entry point, exit point, expected duration of trade, EV, expected profit, scenario analysis etc.) Likewise, you don't put chips in the pot without planning ahead and judging how big you want the pot to be by the time the river comes (pot control/commitment).
Social aspect: After all, the ability to network can greatly help your career and the bigger your network, the better your chances. You need to know how to interact with different types of people, as no two are the same. On no other place on Earth do I see as diverse a group of people as I do on a poker table. Your average table could be comprised of young, old, black, asian, women, and anyone from dirt poor to multimillionaire.
Plenty others I didn't list here as well.
For those who say poker is gambling, then you don't know how to play or never even played at all. It's one of the only games where you don't play against the house, you just pay the house to play. If you don't know what your doing, then you could argue its gambling but if your a competent player in the LR the odds on your side.
To the OP, play as much poker as you can without sacrificing grades and following the markets. Don't put poker on your resume though unless you truly understand the nuances of the game.
Whether or not to put it on your resume depends on one and only one thing. Are you trying to convince people you are a closet homosexual? If yes, then by all means put it on your resume. If not, then don't.
It's really simple.
How does the last comment even relate to anything... Limit or no limit? I'm guessing no limit because of the psychological aspects?
Because poker is pretty gay.
Not if you're Doyle Brunson with a $1,000,000 bankroll.
to add....If you can talk it up in your interview....do it! With many of these things its about your ability communicate something about the experience that helps
Great comment dfall, one of the best posts I have read on that subject. Thanks !
@dfall, great post and agree. However, that being said, there are many that view poker as gambling, even though you are absolutely correct in saying it is not. Also, for those that view it as gambling, they may consider that person to not have good judgment in multiple areas of life, and many consider any form of gambling as a gateway drug to go higher and higher to get that same "high".
http://www.pocketfives.com/f10016/need-advice-how-put-poker-your-resume… http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30/business-finance-investing/should-…
here are links from an old pocket fives article and a recent 2+2 article. if you can filter out the trolls there is good info here. Dfall also hit the nail on the head. Game theory, bankroll management, quick and accurate mental math, plus EV decision making, risk/reward, statistics, acting/reacting without emotion, probability, ability to adapt to variable change, etc. all come into play in both poker and trading.
i would also like to say that you should not have one resume. whenever you apply for a job, you need to critique your resume to fit what that particular firm/role is looking for. For some jobs you are applying for, you may not want to have poker on your resume, for others (certain trading firms and hedge funds) it may be an advantage.
Also, i would refrain from putting any dollar amount won on your resume, ie. i won the Sunday Million on Poker Stars for $250k when i was a junior in college ( i wish that were true). Interviewers at the latter stages of the interview process will be your future co-workers, and no one likes to work with someone who brags. Things like ROI or % of tourney cashes and other poker statistics are fine though IMO.
Last point I would make is that if you are not a pro, leave poker off your resume. If you are an amateur then you are most likely not taking poker serious enough to be able to draw upon the similarities to trading, and that would most likely come off as an undesirable trait to someone reading your resume. i could be wrong but...i dont think an amateur poker player knows enough about the game to exploit other players using the similar skill set that profitable traders use to exploit their counterparties
GOOD LUCK AT THE TABLES!
I've interviewed a few people and work as a junior PM buy side....
Unless you have won a decent tournament, have demonstrate me edge/ strategy I couldn't really give a toss. And even if you do I probably don't really care too much anyway. But put it on there as it's something to talk about.
I've interviewed a few people and work as a junior PM buy side....
Unless you have won a decent tournament, have demonstrate me edge/ strategy I couldn't really give a toss. And even if you do I probably don't really care too much anyway. But put it on there as it's something to talk about.
How to mention self employment (poker profesional) on my resume? (Originally Posted: 10/02/2015)
I have played online poker throughout my college profesionally, also I have coached other players, and invested in numerous players in return for a share of their profit.
Should I mention the amount of poker profit? (around 300k before taxes)
I am not sure how to put this on my resume which I will use to get an internship somewhere.
Thanks a lot.
Hey man, cool to see another poker player on here. What sites did you play on in college? Do you post on two plus two?
There are one of two ways you can go with this: - Don't put it in employment experience. Perhaps you can put it in accomplishments, starting with the coaching aspect. I'm not sure I would put hard numbers on a resume, but it is worth mentioning since it was obviously a significant part of your life in college
- Include it in your employment experience section. If you do this, it should be addressed quite quickly in career fairs and interviews. Try to explain it to employers in the simplest terms possible (I played x number of hands over y years which resulted in a return on investment of z" Saying you won 300k sounds like you just won the lottery (to someone who does not play poker regularly"The tricky thing here is to make sure you market this experience as a game of skill that you beat over a large statistical sample. Reference the analysis you completed while a pro that allowed you to maintain a high level of success. Explain how you pick and chose horses to back, and relate that to the stock market.
Good luck man. PM me if you ever are around casinos in the Greater Philadelphia area
Hey man,
Yeah I am active on 2p2 haha, are you? I mostly played on the smaller sites: iPoker and partypoker.
Thanks for replying.
Yeah I am kind of forced to put it in employment expierence, because well I dont have much otherwise to show for unfortunately. Most of my time I spent on playing poker because the money was so good (not mentioning that haha).
I think you have a good point with making it sounds less lottery-ish, thanks a lot by pointing that out.
just call it poker, not online poker
the legality of online poker in the US is hotly contested and outright illegal in many states
the last thing you want to do is get dinged for something trivial like that
Interests: Professional poker, coaching poker, etc, etc
That's more than enough signalling on a resume. Let them then ask you about it.
Unfortunately my other creditionals are quite bad, my GPA is only a 3.5 and a small study delay and I dont have any relevant internship expierence.
does this change your opinion?
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I am somewhat active on 2p2, haven't posted there in a while - same screen name as here. I might have a couple degen stories for bbv to chronicle soon
Thanks for the replies all.
It could be good for some war stories if your interviews take a turn to the informal; just make sure you spell professionally correctly
This a lot all.
As an avid poker player, I would consider highlighting the aspects of poker that have tie-in with investments (eg. Bankroll Management, Equity and EV calculations). The framing could make it a more legitimate sell.
I wouldn't say it's a relevant replacement for work experience, but when you've got nothing else, you've got nothing to lose by highlighting it there.
I'll say it's more of a double-edged sword: You're gonna be dinged by most who scorn gambling, but somewhere out there is a knowing headhunter who'll acknowledge your achievements.
Online Poker on Resume? (Originally Posted: 08/28/2009)
I'm looking to fill up my resume with as much quant/stats type stuff as I can (liberal arts major lacking work exp). I've been playing online poker since high school and have built up a very small bankroll (~$50) to a relatively big one (several thousand). I understand to some this may sound odd, but if you play the game right (i.e., very conservatively) you can grind away small profits in the long run through the use of (legal) stats analysis programs and by playing more than one table at once on multiple monitors. I have two questions:
1) Is this legitimate to put on your resume for S&T jobs?
2) How could you do it respectably?
I wouldn't put this on my resume. I would consider just putting poker under an interests section that might spark a question from the interviewer which will give you a chance to say what you want about the analytical approach you take/making decisions with imperfect information/yada yada.
I'm only a student, but I have an opinion on this. I think it's a bad idea to make a big deal out of it; the reason being you dont know the personality of the person reading your resume / interviewing you. In my experience networking, I have come across a LOT of different personalities. Some were more laid-back, some pretty intense, and even some who were borderline douches (I say borderline because at least they agreed to speak with me...). If you emphasize it on your resume and you are unfortunate enough to have an interviewer who disagrees with gambling regardless of legality, you might be screwed. I would play it safe, list it as an interest and play it by ear during the interview.
Yeah...both make sense. Obviously, if you personally know the person you're sending the resume to, and you know they aren't uber conservative...put it on there...else keep it as an interest.
If you have made over 100k with a sample size of atleast half a million hands then I think you could include it in a way that stands out. If you are a tournament player ranked in the top 1% on OPR I would also consider including it. The one thing people are forgetting is that poker players are making financial decisions in split seconds which is incredibly important in trading.
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
Founder of a poker club at university. Should it go on my resume? (Originally Posted: 02/10/2015)
To preface this, I have always been very interested in poker, specifically hold 'em. There are poker clubs at many top business schools that, I believe, seek to teach a liberal way of thinking through the game. My university did not have an organization like this; however, I was eventually able to found a similar club that focuses on what can be learned through poker, such as risk management, making decisions with limited information, etc... Is this acceptable to put on a resume for IB or would it be viewed negatively? Thanks to all who respond.
Perfectly fine. Traders and S&T types would probably appreciate the finer points of poker more, but most bankers are smart enough to know that poker is a skill game with an element of luck (as opposed to the average person who thinks poker is a game of luck with an element of skill)
Thanks for the advice. I agree with your sentiment. I am not looking to just teach the game, but rather show how concepts from the game can be applied in business.
Thanks for the advice. I agree with your sentiment. I am not looking to just teach the game, but rather show how concepts from the game can be applied in business.
Unless you're doing rain man level stuff, I don't think it really matters. You can list poker as an interest though
thats interesting. don't think it matters
It's fine
I would definitely list it. It could lead to an interesting conversation during your interview.
poker on resume (Originally Posted: 08/26/2007)
I spend almost two years playing poker after my soph year of college. So I went to school part time and it took me an extra year to graducate. How do you spin that to not sound bad? My exp was great and I was able to do a lot with my winnings as well as learn a lot about myself and whats important. Thanks for any advice. I am planning to apply to b school in two years. Thanks again.
It could go either way. You could have an admissions committee or interviewer who thinks that it is unique, and they'll know you are being open in your application. Or....
they could think that you didn't do it right and ding you instantly. I wouldn't be surprised if some considered it a red flag and dinged you right there.
it is a wild card and I know most people will view is as a red flag. It is pretty hard to work my current job with no one knowing what I am really doing.
I have a feeling that if you applied for a sales and trading job you would get great attention
Yes. Take for example Bill Gross of PIMCO. He's a HUGE poker player. Most sales/trading folks are degenerate gamblers. It's a prerequisite for a succesful career :-)
I really try not to talk about it but somethings just slip out.
You should make clear to them that Professional Poker has nothing to do with gambling.
You have to be very disciplined to become a Pro Player and not fall to the vices the are usually around...
but it creates a catch 22 which I do not have a solid reply for.
I wouldn't put it on the resume. When in interviews, try to judge how receptive the interviewer would be to your situation. If it comes up and they don't seem interested, play it down. If they love it, talk it up.
Poker on Resume - How much depth? (Originally Posted: 03/20/2017)
Should I have poker on my resume if I have played professionally for 6 years? I have a large sample size (nearly 1M hands). I was also wondering if i should have my winrate in BB/100 or if i should make it simple.
How would an ordinary market making firm interpret me playing poker? Or should i just omit it?
Any help with be greatly appriciated.
I would make it simple. Very unlikely the hiring manager will know what a winrate of bb/100 even means. I would refrain from putting poker on the resume altogether unless you had no work history during that time.
We love it my firm when someone has poker knowledge. I would definitely include it if I were you, regardless of whether you have other work experience during that time. However, I'd probably put it under "Other Interests" if you were otherwise gainfully employed. Include the BB/100 rate as well, its short and if they know what it means then it's obviously something you can talk more about, if not maybe it'll provide a talking point for more discussion.
Entering Poker Into CV (Originally Posted: 07/07/2015)
I'm a 25 year old poker player who's looking to get back into work, I've been playing poker full time for 5-6 years. The problem I'm having is my CV is pretty basic as it is(school GCSEs and about a years work), so in addition I don't want there to be a huge gap. I've searched around and I've found the general consensus is that it shouldn't be mentioned in the CV and maybe just put under hobbies. But I feel like I don't have any other choice and would like some opinions on the best way to phrase it? I've gernerated around 150k$ or so and worked alot with math and game theory, whilst working in high pressure situations.
Any advise would be appreciated.
I guess it depends on what job you are applying for. You probably have no choice but to put it on, otherwise your CV is completely empty. 150k isnt that much if you were playing full time for 6 years.
I'm looking to get into some sort of office work with computers or something.
That's very, very general. Be more specific, do you want to get into a back office in IB, do IT work, etc. ?
lol
I personally wouldn't compare trading and poker in such a way. Poker is gambling, not trading.
I like playing poker creating strategies in the long run. I spend 2-3 hours per day watching poker tournaments on youtube, and it really helps to increase your skills. But you definitely can't win a lot of money playing poker online. You could become rich playing it like 10-12 years ago, but not now. Anyway, investing and trading is much more profitable in the long run, but you can't have a lot of fun there. That's why I sometimes play slot malaysia to have fun and relax a little bit. Surprisingly, I have a pretty good win/lose rate there.
Spending 2-3 hours per day? Do you even work?
Why? It's not that much for a passionate poker player. I've heard that some people spend even 5-6 hours.
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