100+ hours a week

You hear rumors about banking being brutal and stretching the limits of work endurance: 80, 85, 90, 95 or even 100 (!) hours per week. surely not a sport for the faint of heart! Yet it seems like it's exaggerated - after all who can stay up until 1-2 am for five nights/week and still work on weekends? I guess the lure of big bucks and megafunds dangle the carrot eh? And you don't want your MDs yelling at you that's the stick?

But still has anyone ever done that legendary 100 hours a week, or heard of others at other banks who do? I have yet to encounter it in my informational interviews

Comments (119)

Nov 3, 2011

People def put it 100+ weeks, but that's not usually the norm. Don't expect to average under 90 at a legit place though.

Nov 3, 2011

50 hr weeks become 100 hr weeks when your VP makes it a habit to put work on your desk at 5pm instead of in the morning. consider it a part of the learning process.

Nov 3, 2011

that's the reality, not rumor. no banks will tell you they work analysts 100+ hours a week because they're trying to recruit. if you do your research and talk to any analyst at a top bank you would know that 100+ a week isn't even close to unheard of.

as a summer analyst i worked at least two weeks with 100+ hours. 80 hours/week is not a lot for an analyst and was a break. it would mean we had the weekends mostly off, but as an intern i worked every single day including fourth of july for 10 weeks. not exaggerating.

nonetheless, the days go by fast and you end up learning a ton, so don't let the hours hold you back.

Nov 3, 2011

Not sure if it's the hours that will hold him back.

Nov 3, 2011

I thought the same way when I was interning, and I never worked anything close to even 50 hours prior to interning. But once you get into the groove of things, you just don't think in terms of how many hours a week you're working. It becomes more of a 8am-12am (on average) thing. Sometimes I got lucky and got out before 11pm. Some days deals went live and it was 3am when I left just to find myself back in the office at 7am.

But if you really wanna think about it in terms of hours per week...

Think about it this way, 8am-12am would be like 80 hours M-F, still getting 6 hours of sleep. Then Sat and Sunday 6hours~ ish 12pm - 6pm at the office for a total of 92 hours.

This was my impression of the normal work week. If deals were on hold, I would clock much less, but when shit went live at the same time, 100+ was expected.

Anyways, you shouldn't need to worry about it, time passes by super quick anyways when you have like memos/comps/PP slides due the next day. Super. Quick.

Banking.

Learn More

7,548 questions across 469 investment banks. The WSO Investment Banking Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to start your career on Wall Street. Technical, Behavioral and Networking Courses + 2 Bonus Modules. Learn more.

Nov 3, 2011

Agree with the above though I must say things seem to have quieted down significantly with the markets being in their current state....

Nov 3, 2011

Also realize you aren't actually "working" 100 hours per week. IB is one of the least efficient industries when it come to using employees time. You often have little to do in the morning, then crap rolls downhill until it finally hits the analysts at 4pm.

Nov 3, 2011

I would fucking KILL for 80 hr wks... no work Friday and Saturday night, with free Sunday mornings... fucking bliss

Nov 3, 2011

My roommate did a 130hr week as an intern. Sunday was his quietest day and he worked 9am-1am. The thing is that not all weeks are like that, but every now and then it gets pretty brutal. The regular week is probably more in the 90hr mark in a BB. And of course they don't tell you about it while recruiting, they want people to think exactly what you are thinking now. And like said above, 130hr means 130 hours in the office, not working.

Nov 3, 2011

Mine have been more varied. I have had 50 hr weeks and ones where I get 3 hours sleep the entire week/dont leave the office a few nights.

Nov 3, 2011

In this environment, expect to spend ALOT of time pitching.

'We're bigger than U.S. Steel"

Nov 3, 2011

LOL you think we're exaggerating? 100 hour weeks are COMMON in some groups. If you're an analyst and you're working only 80 hours a week, you got a great lifestyle group.

I've heard of 120-140 hour work weeks too. The 140 hour work week (average 4 hours away from office per day, multiple all nighters) was not by force, but by pure drive to be the best. Some people are willing to push the physical limits of their bodies to be the best they can.

Nov 3, 2011
goldman in da house:

LOL you think we're exaggerating? 100 hour weeks are COMMON in some groups. If you're an analyst and you're working only 80 hours a week, you got a great lifestyle group.

I've heard of 120-140 hour work weeks too. The 140 hour work week (average 4 hours away from office per day, multiple all nighters) was not by force, but by pure drive to be the best. Some people are willing to push the physical limits of their bodies to be the best they can.

This is ridiculous. I've had weeks over 100 hours and that's normal, but there isn't anything in this job that would require one person to put in 140 hours of work in one week. Whoever told you about their 140 week must already know how gullible you are.

Nov 4, 2011
goldman in da house:

LOL you think we're exaggerating? 100 hour weeks are COMMON in some groups. If you're an analyst and you're working only 80 hours a week, you got a great lifestyle group.

I've heard of 120-140 hour work weeks too. The 140 hour work week (average 4 hours away from office per day, multiple all nighters) was not by force, but by pure drive to be the best. Some people are willing to push the physical limits of their bodies to be the best they can.

Man, you are so hardcore! Go banking!

Nov 12, 2011
goldman in da house:

LOL you think we're exaggerating? 100 hour weeks are COMMON in some groups. If you're an analyst and you're working only 80 hours a week, you got a great lifestyle group.

I've heard of 120-140 hour work weeks too. The 140 hour work week (average 4 hours away from office per day, multiple all nighters) was not by force, but by pure drive to be the best. Some people are willing to push the physical limits of their bodies to be the best they can.

some people are fkin retarded.

The more I do this shit the more retarded I find all of banking, the one thing I never get is those people that stay on as associates, there must be srsly something wrong with them lol. They cant be after money because banking pays like shit given how much work. If you stay on as an associate you must believe your social ability to be sufficient to become an md. GIven that assumption you could just as well go into f500, if you worked 70hours a week there youd be guaranteed to make c level and get more comp than banking o0.

SO what is it, does formatting slides give some people a hard on? Lots of fkin crazies in this world I guess...

how do you guys motivate yourself to put up with this shit? PE exit opps sound good but PE is a mature industry now, there isnt that much money left in it and its banking 2.0 with marginally better hours.

All about the hf I guess

Nov 3, 2011

Wasn't there a memo from some senior guy at DLJ back in the day that detailed an analyst's week and said that all of their analysts were expected to work 115 every week? Anyone else remember this or have a link to it?

Nov 3, 2011
Nov 3, 2011

I think it was more like 90 was the norm as per the DLJ memo.

Nov 3, 2011

Weeks ranging from 80-130 hours, middle 50% 100-110. Needless to say, I jumped that ship

Nov 3, 2011

One of the guys I know who interned at a BB this summer had a 126 hour workweek.

Nov 3, 2011

Although I can't speak from explicit experience I've know analysts who routinely work over 100 and up to 120/wk.

Nov 3, 2011

100 hours is very real. Most of my weeks as an Analyst were 85-90, but there were plenty of weeks in the 100+ hour zone.

What I love is that prospective bankers throw around that "80-100 hour weeks" term like there's no difference between 80 or 100 hours. In reality, it's exponentially different.

80 hours in a week could be 9am-1am for 5 days and a free weekend, but when you start talking 100 hours you're averaging 9am-1am during the week and then wiping out your entire weekend...just in time to start all over on Monday.

Nov 3, 2011

120 Hours per week would make anyone go insane IMO. I think anywhere over 80 is pushing it, and certainly anything over 100 is just asinine. Don't these people understand work efficiency? I know I can't do the same work for more than about 3 hours without a good break. Not to mention the necessity of weekends / a few days off to recharge.

Nov 3, 2011
blackrainn:

120 Hours per week would make anyone go insane IMO. I think anywhere over 80 is pushing it, and certainly anything over 100 is just asinine. Don't these people understand work efficiency? I know I can't do the same work for more than about 3 hours without a good break. Not to mention the necessity of weekends / a few days off to recharge.

Haha WOW...find a new career path junior.

Nov 3, 2011

I have no idea how or why you guys do this lol

Nov 3, 2011

It sucks, you'll hate pretty much every moment of your life as an analyst. 100 hour weeks are common and you can expect more than 50% of your weeks to cross this threshold. However, once you finish up your 2-3 years and start your next job, you'll be so ridiculously glad that you did it.

Nov 3, 2011
CompBanker:

It sucks, you'll hate pretty much every moment of your life as an analyst. 100 hour weeks are common and you can expect more than 50% of your weeks to cross this threshold. However, once you finish up your 2-3 years and start your next job, you'll be so ridiculously glad that you did it.

Can you expand on this? Three months in...sometimes finding it very hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel....

Nov 12, 2011
CompBanker:

It sucks, you'll hate pretty much every moment of your life as an analyst. 100 hour weeks are common and you can expect more than 50% of your weeks to cross this threshold. However, once you finish up your 2-3 years and start your next job, you'll be so ridiculously glad that you did it.

By "so ridiculously glad that you did it", do you mean that the exit opportunities are great? I talked to some friends and learned that it may not be so great because not that many PE jobs are out there, and some banks don't really make people stay after 2-3 years.

Nov 3, 2011
yoko18:
CompBanker:

It sucks, you'll hate pretty much every moment of your life as an analyst. 100 hour weeks are common and you can expect more than 50% of your weeks to cross this threshold. However, once you finish up your 2-3 years and start your next job, you'll be so ridiculously glad that you did it.

By "so ridiculously glad that you did it", do you mean that the exit opportunities are great? I talked to some friends and learned that it may not be so great because not that many PE jobs are out there, and some banks don't really make people stay after 2-3 years.

To be quite frank, you'll only be getting real PE exit ops if you worked at a BB or elite boutique

Nov 3, 2011

Not all of the time, but some of the time people stay until 1am or 2 am because they are waiting for a turn that never comes.........they could have been gone by 10:30 or 11.

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

Nov 5, 2011
cplpayne:

Not all of the time, but some of the time people stay until 1am or 2 am because they are waiting for a turn that never comes.........they could have been gone by 10:30 or 11.

This is fucking stupid. Unless your senior bankers and associates are raging douche bags they shouldn't expect you to wait around until 1am for a turn that may or may not come. (Note: this assumes the turn would be coming via email, not in the office.) There's a reason we're all given a blackberry.

Nov 3, 2011

I agree with OP I think many of you are full of shit when you say you do 100+ hour work weeks.

Nov 3, 2011
blastoise:

I agree with OP I think many of you are full of shit when you say you do 100+ hour work weeks.

Because no one out there would work 18 hours a day?

Nov 3, 2011

Bankers invented the 100+ hour work week to scare others away.

Nov 3, 2011

I'm surprised you have yet to encounter it in your info. interviews. I too was skeptical but had a roommate past summer doing IB at a 2nd tier BB and basically his "normal" hours were:
9am-2am M-F
12pm-10pm
12pm-10pm

Quite frequently it was even longer, at one week M-F he went to work 9am-5am. Yeah.... no joke

Learn More

7,548 questions across 469 investment banks. The WSO Investment Banking Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to start your career on Wall Street. Technical, Behavioral and Networking Courses + 2 Bonus Modules. Learn more.

Nov 3, 2011

I would agree to work 100 hours a week only if I get paid hourly and with no price discrimination.

    • 1
Nov 3, 2011

The problem is not the hours but the lack of sleep, drinking 3-4 coffees to keep alert, forgetting anything and everything, but work and doing it over and over again...that's what suckss.

Do what you want not what you can!

Nov 3, 2011

if you want more comfortable hours, get your ass in S&T. IBD have no regard for analysts in the office because you are a cost center and not a revenue generator. All the MDs and VPs have been through that and guess what?? None of them gives a shit about an analyst wanting to jump off the building from not having a personal life and devoting all of their time to work.

times are tough, they are doing more with less people. shit, even in S&T a lot of the guys are putting in longer hours than before because we have to prospect harder for clients and if you want to bring in fresh biz, you better have a pitch ready for whatever the fuck they need that you can provide.

Nov 3, 2011

How have you not gone weeks with all nighters, 3-5 hour sleep days, etc. during college days....Are you always sleeping in on sundays, lol. I know plenty of people who are sleeping 3-5 hours every day, all nighters before tests/papers, don't sleep in very often on weekends, and stay alive with coffee. If you really need it, just down a few energy drinks. YOu'd be surprised of what you're body's capable of

I've been told that the 100+ hour work weeks don't feel that bad when you're constantly working, from the people I know who worked at BBs this past summer.

Nov 7, 2011
Warhead:

How have you not gone weeks with all nighters, 3-5 hour sleep days, etc. during college days....Are you always sleeping in on sundays, lol. I know plenty of people who are sleeping 3-5 hours every day, all nighters before tests/papers, don't sleep in very often on weekends, and stay alive with coffee. If you really need it, just down a few energy drinks. YOu'd be surprised of what you're body's capable of

I've been told that the 100+ hour work weeks don't feel that bad when you're constantly working, from the people I know who worked at BBs this past summer.

Anyone who does that shit as a college student is probably a tremendous dumbass with horrendous time management skills. I worked harder than most people in college and only had a couple of all nighters (mostly because I just didn't manage my time well) and rarely got less than 6 hours of sleep maybe once a week.

Nov 3, 2011

I know of a guy who worked 120 hours per week for months. He literally melted his brain and is now worthless.

Nov 3, 2011

You didn't believe it at first? Hahaha.

I've pulled several 100s, four 115s, and countless 80s and 90s. We whore ourselves out for the $.

Nov 3, 2011
whateverittakes:

You didn't believe it at first? Hahaha.

I've pulled several 100s, four 115s, and countless 80s and 90s. We whore ourselves out for the $.

lol, probably not just for the money...
Maybe you mean you whore yourself out for some imaginary number your think you will earn 3 or 4 years down the road? Maybe you think you are doing God's work or something...
Cuz I know that nurses in California and call-girls in Nevada probably earn several times more on hourly basis.

Nov 4, 2011
GekkotheGreat:
whateverittakes:

You didn't believe it at first? Hahaha.

I've pulled several 100s, four 115s, and countless 80s and 90s. We whore ourselves out for the $.

lol, probably not just for the money...
Maybe you mean you whore yourself out for some imaginary number your think you will earn 3 or 4 years down the road? Maybe you think you are doing God's work or something...
Cuz I know that nurses in California and call-girls in Nevada probably earn several times more on hourly basis.

Occupy Bunny Ranch.
1% of the money whores make more than 99% of the money whores.

Nov 3, 2011

my longest stretch was 56 hours straight from a sunday morning. it was dealio time. not for me anymore. i am too old.

Nov 4, 2011

I read once that hourly pay doing i-banking right out of school pay on average 15-23/hr...i made more than that at my summer internship sophomore year.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

Nov 4, 2011

So how much do hours drop off as an associate? Or are they still low enough to be there 90+ hours with you?

Nov 3, 2011

140 hours means you're literally living in the office...

I'm sorry dude that's on you or the staffer for failing to speak up and delegate. You should never have to work more than a handful of 120+ hour weeks in your entire analyst stint

Nov 3, 2011
Solidarity:

140 hours means you're literally living in the office...

I'm sorry dude that's on you or the staffer for failing to speak up and delegate. You should never have to work more than a handful of 120+ hour weeks in your entire analyst stint

Exactly. I don't know which is worse, lying about working 140 or being dumb enough to work 140.

Nov 3, 2011
Rupert Pupkin:
Solidarity:

140 hours means you're literally living in the office...

I'm sorry dude that's on you or the staffer for failing to speak up and delegate. You should never have to work more than a handful of 120+ hour weeks in your entire analyst stint

Exactly. I don't know which is worse, lying about working 140 or being dumb enough to work 140.

Maybe he is not lying or dumb. The poor kid may just have insomnia. In either case, I highly doubt 140 hours a week has anything to do with the drive to be best. You are out of the office 4 hours a day. you probably sleep less than 3 hours a day for a week. You never exercise. You probably have coffee and Adderall diet everyday. Therefore, you probably in a very unhealthy mental and physical state. In general, I never see anyone who is the 'best' at his job with such an unhealthy life style.

Note, Interestingly, Japanese probably have one of the best work ethic among nations. Suicidal and death from too much work is so commonplace in Japan, that there is a word for it - karoshi or something. Anyway, you are left wonder why a country works so hard can't seem to get its economy back in track for more than two decades.

Well, I guess you have to also 'DO IT RIGHT'. :P

Nov 3, 2011
Rupert Pupkin:
Solidarity:

140 hours means you're literally living in the office...

I'm sorry dude that's on you or the staffer for failing to speak up and delegate. You should never have to work more than a handful of 120+ hour weeks in your entire analyst stint

Exactly. I don't know which is worse, lying about working 140 or being dumb enough to work 140.

Word. Bad staffer right there.

Nov 4, 2011

From my friends in the industry it definitely seems to be true. In addition to the money I'm sure it's also relatively entertaining to be able to brag about 100 hrs. a week - sounds kind of like a mental marathon.

Nov 4, 2011

Can we stop with this horse shit? 90hr+ weeks? Yes.

90 hrs of work per week? No. The IB will be lucky to get 55 hours of actual work from an analyst out of a 90+ week.

I don't understand why people complain. The first few eyars of college I worked in a warehouse during my summers. 50 hours per week and I was actually working 45+ of those hours.

I can see it being hard on folks with kids but for single people it shouldn't be a big deal. Will your social life suffer? Depends what social life you had prior to it.

It's an antiquated system if you ask me. The problem also stems from the fact that many Associates, VP's, and SVP's are not good managers of people. They may be good at banking but they can't manage people for shit ad at the lower levels it's as much about managing people as banking.

Nov 4, 2011

doesn't even seem like that much money. $110k? for 120 hour weeks? How quickly does that ramp up? You'd have to be tossing numbers at me like $500k+ in 4-5 years for me to even think about working that much to get there. Even then I'd probably say no. After a few years of consulting, you can go get a F500 Director gig and push close to $200k for 40 hours a week. That seems like a far better ratio of effort to $$.

Nov 7, 2011
djfiii:

doesn't even seem like that much money. $110k? for 120 hour weeks? How quickly does that ramp up? You'd have to be tossing numbers at me like $500k+ in 4-5 years for me to even think about working that much to get there. Even then I'd probably say no. After a few years of consulting, you can go get a F500 Director gig and push close to $200k for 40 hours a week. That seems like a far better ratio of effort to $$.

You could work as a petroleum engineer out of college and make $90k/year with 40 hour workweeks. Seems like a better deal to me.

Nov 7, 2011
Thurnis Haley:
djfiii:

doesn't even seem like that much money. $110k? for 120 hour weeks? How quickly does that ramp up? You'd have to be tossing numbers at me like $500k+ in 4-5 years for me to even think about working that much to get there. Even then I'd probably say no. After a few years of consulting, you can go get a F500 Director gig and push close to $200k for 40 hours a week. That seems like a far better ratio of effort to $$.

You could work as a petroleum engineer out of college and make $90k/year with 40 hour workweeks. Seems like a better deal to me.

That's not a bad gig, but the reality of the situation is that those engineers will:

A) Be in the field

B) make nearly 90k all-in after 1 year

C)make nearly 90k all-in after a few years

    • 1
Nov 5, 2011

At the MM I was at this summer 60 to 80in the office was the norm, but I brought work home.

Nov 5, 2011

After reading all this I calculated how many hours I spent in the office last week - 100 hours from Sun to Fri. Monday to Thursday 16 hours each, Friday 12 hours, and 9 hours and 15 hours last Sat and Sun.

I work in the S&T, almost half a year into this role as a new graduate. As one poster above pointed out, things are definitely getting more brutal for the traditionally "chilled out" dudes in the markets.

I guess my question is - once you are above the certain limit, is there any relation between the hours and "how good you are at your job"? I feel like, ok for me 80% of the time those long hours are unavoiable since I need to cover other markets or put together some analyst shit. But for the remaining 20%, I'm in the office for the betterment of my boss and whatever the project/ trades I'm working at the moment. If I subtract that 20% I think I may well end up working around 90-95 hours a week (but definitely above 90 hours), getting some sleep, etc.

And there is a real difference between 90, 80 hours and 100 hours, from my experience (i.e. I have less suicidal thoughts during the weekday when I put up 90 hours)

Nov 4, 2011
bluecoat:

After reading all this I calculated how many hours I spent in the office last week - 100 hours from Sun to Fri. Monday to Thursday 16 hours each, Friday 12 hours, and 9 hours and 15 hours last Sat and Sun.

I work in the S&T, almost half a year into this role as a new graduate. As one poster above pointed out, things are definitely getting more brutal for the traditionally "chilled out" dudes in the markets.

I guess my question is - once you are above the certain limit, is there any relation between the hours and "how good you are at your job"? I feel like, ok for me 80% of the time those long hours are unavoiable since I need to cover other markets or put together some analyst shit. But for the remaining 20%, I'm in the office for the betterment of my boss and whatever the project/ trades I'm working at the moment. If I subtract that 20% I think I may well end up working around 90-95 hours a week (but definitely above 90 hours), getting some sleep, etc.

And there is a real difference between 90, 80 hours and 100 hours, from my experience (i.e. I have less suicidal thoughts during the weekday when I put up 90 hours)

it's a very antiquated and inefficient system. When it's deal time then the hours are understandable but there's no reason it shouldn't be a healthy ~60 hours the rest of the time. The fact that superiors know that they have you around 80+ hours provides them with no incentive to structure work efficiently and prioritize.
The IB's can drop hours, drop pay, and receive virtually the same amount of work ( with a high quality) for less time. It's as if the world of networks and remote connections has passed the IB world by as well.

The business is still very much rooted in the old school ways.

Nov 5, 2011

100+ IS A rumour?

more like 0.3 std deviations from the average
lol

Nov 8, 2011

Consultant Life > IB Life... im just saying i will do better Drake voice

Get it!

Nov 10, 2011

dude, doing it right now it fucking blows balls with a goddamn shotgun. 9am - 3am / 4am (2nd yr analysts come in around 10am) and then most weekends are just like a normal workday (~12pm till 1 or 2am). the earliest i've left was at 11pm one night because i had to stay 3 days in a row for a pagent. i'm at the worst shape in my life, can't even hit on this hot broad that sorta digs me cuz i'd rather let excel mind fuck me, and not to mention the verbal abuse you get on a daily basis.

but there're at least 200 kids out there who would sell their organs and wipe out the MD's ex-wife who he pays half his comp to as allimony. as much as i like to bitch about my job i don't regret it a single bit and you better fucking know i'm gonna pull through this shit for 2 more years

Nov 12, 2011

I think what people on this forum are describing is a type of fireman's job where they stay at the office for long periods of time with nothing to do. There is no way any human that works in a high level intellectual capacity can work for more than ten or twelve hours a day for very extended period of time. What does happen is that people live too far away from the office to go home when a deal is going down and decide to sleep at their desks. Not a high quality of life, but doable.

Nov 12, 2011
showel1:

I think what people on this forum are describing is a type of fireman's job where they stay at the office for long periods of time with nothing to do. There is no way any human that works in a high level intellectual capacity can work for more than ten or twelve hours a day for very extended period of time. What does happen is that people live too far away from the office to go home when a deal is going down and decide to sleep at their desks. Not a high quality of life, but doable.

Hahaha, you just proved that you don't know anything about banking...

Nov 12, 2011
rufiolove:
showel1:

I think what people on this forum are describing is a type of fireman's job where they stay at the office for long periods of time with nothing to do. There is no way any human that works in a high level intellectual capacity can work for more than ten or twelve hours a day for very extended period of time. What does happen is that people live too far away from the office to go home when a deal is going down and decide to sleep at their desks. Not a high quality of life, but doable.

Hahaha, you just proved that you don't know anything about banking...

why, what he says is 100 percent accurate. I mean you often work more than 12 hours a day in pure working time, but nothing in banking(no not even modelling) is even remotely intellectually challenging(unless your quite dumb which alot of bankers are).

Nov 12, 2011

It is exteremly difficult to calculate the actual number of hours an analyst will actually work. Emphasis on the word work. As has been stated above the idustry is highly ineffectient at delegating work load and managing time wisely. Not to say that people who work in IB can't mangage this shit because they easily can. It boils down to two things really that lead to the high amount of office time. One, its tradition, your boss did it, his boss did it ect ect. Two the odd nature of the business itself. You have to be there when your client needs you, not when the work needs you. That is the main factor of why the days are always on and off as far as work load goes. You might have 100 hours of office time in a week but in reality that might mean 70 to 75 hours of actual deal work. The rest is spent doing bs, doing nothing, getting yelled at by your bosses for no reason, helping other people, sleeping under your desk, lying that you have to much work to do and therefore your boss needs to find someone else, ect ect.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Nov 3, 2011

Not sure what you mean by "real PE", but the direct investing world is full of folks from the middle market banks. Dare I even say that the middle market banks have a growing presence in PE as their bulge bracket counterparts have struggled through the recession. Im sure you may have different impressions, but Im looking at things on a very large scale (ie all of the usa, not just NYC, and all direct investing, not just the multi billion dollar funds).

    • 1
Nov 12, 2011

it's not as grueling as you think. most of the time you're just sitting there doing squat. it sounds horrible due to the number of hours away from your own bed but it's not like you're running up a mountain 20hrs a day

Nov 3, 2011

My post was in response to some people questioning the exit ops and saying things to the effect of "there aren't a lot of PE exit ops out there" or "PE isn't guaranteed after investment banking", which are both patently false. The maturation of megafund PE and large MM firms = guaranteed PE gigs for BB analysts.

By "real PE" I mean "real PE exit ops"... aka you are getting interviews with megafunds at least, and at worst you settle for a multi-billion $ fund. The exit ops are definitely worth it coming from a BB or elite boutique ("real PE exit ops", strong brand name, large network)--that was my point. Nothing against the 10-person middle market boutiques, but there's definitely exit op parity and no catchall answer for "IS INVESTMENT BANKING WORTH IT?"

Nov 3, 2011
Solidarity:

My post was in response to some people questioning the exit ops and saying things to the effect of "there aren't a lot of PE exit ops out there" or "PE isn't guaranteed after investment banking", which are both patently false. The maturation of megafund PE and large MM firms = guaranteed PE gigs for BB analysts.

By "real PE" I mean "real PE exit ops"... aka you are getting interviews with megafunds at least, and at worst you settle for a multi-billion $ fund. The exit ops are definitely worth it coming from a BB or elite boutique ("real PE exit ops", strong brand name, large network)--that was my point. Nothing against the 10-person middle market boutiques, but there's definitely exit op parity and no catchall answer for "IS INVESTMENT BANKING WORTH IT?"

I still don't understand why a 10-person middle market boutique does not qualify as an exit op. You know the folks there are making tons of money, right?

Nov 3, 2011

Of course they're making $. If we're talking in pure money terms then most McDonald's and Wendy's franchisees are making tons more in FCF than bankers and PE guys

My point is that if you're expecting to work 100 hrs in investment banking, the question of "is this worth it?" is almost completely firm dependent... would I still be willing to sell my soul in banking if Piper Jaffray was my only offer? I wouldn't be so sure, given that the expected payoff is definitely much less...

Nov 3, 2011
Solidarity:

Of course they're making $. If we're talking in pure money terms then most McDonald's and Wendy's franchisees are making tons more in FCF than bankers and PE guys

My point is that if you're expecting to work 100 hrs in investment banking, the question of "is this worth it?" is almost completely firm dependent... would I still be willing to sell my soul in banking if Piper Jaffray was my only offer? I wouldn't be so sure, given that the expected payoff is definitely much less...

I see your point. I will say that I believe the expected payoff from a place like Piper Jaffray is a lot higher than i think you give it credit for. Even if you do land at a boutique PE firm, which many MM analysts go to, you can still work your way up and be a multi-millionaire in your 30s.

Nov 3, 2011

i don't know if this carries into PE, but when i was doing banking, bofA had to pay a considerable premium for its junior staff over GS, despite all the misinformation about salaries being flat for analysts. this was true for IBD and S&T.

going for a "top" anything (in reputation or name or whatever) is worth it for about 2 years but after that, money >>> prestige. as you go more senior in your career, the discount period for the value of prestige is diminished considerably. i am assuming we all want to retire before we are 40; so if you are still concerned about prestige by the time you are 30 i urge you to report for de-programming immediately for your own sake.

i cannot fund my retirement with prestige. i would gladly work as a barnyard masturbator over Rentech or DE Shaw if the salary premium was high enough.

Nov 3, 2011

i cannot fund my retirement with prestige. i would gladly work as a barnyard masturbator over Rentech or DE Shaw if the salary premium was high enough.

wait you would rather get paid to jerk off than exploit tiny pricing inefficiencies? woww

Nov 3, 2011
Solidarity:

i cannot fund my retirement with prestige. i would gladly work as a barnyard masturbator over Rentech or DE Shaw if the salary premium was high enough.

wait you would rather get paid to jerk off than exploit tiny pricing inefficiencies? woww

sir, barnyard masturbation is a really important function on a farm.

and jim rogers said agriculture is going to be huge so i'm just getting in early.

Nov 3, 2011

90 hrs / wk * 50 weeks = 4680 hrs

70k base + 10k signing + 55k bonus (avg 2nd bucket across street) = 135k all-in

= ~ $29/hr pre-tax
= ~ $19/hr after-tax (net federal, NY taxes, net standard employer 401k match)

Not the greatest... but also better than most shit we could be doing out of college

Nov 3, 2011

fuck this

Nov 13, 2011

its really not that bad

Dec 7, 2012

I am a freelance SEO manager, i get paid by hours so i am working 100+ hours per week for 1 year now.

Dec 7, 2012

I think if you can learn something real, it is worthy.

All we need is just a little patience

Dec 7, 2012

What if... and call me crazy if I am. People are going to offices for 60+ hours a week doing something they... enjoy doing? Maybe just maybe choosing a career shouldn't be about preftige and models that 99.9% of the people on this board could never pull choosing to work a lot should be because you actually enjoy the work.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2012
undefined:

What if... and call me crazy if I am. People are going to offices for 60+ hours a week doing something they... enjoy doing? Maybe just maybe choosing a career shouldn't be about preftige and models that 99.9% of the people on this board could never pull choosing to work a lot should be because you actually enjoy the work.

8-8 is 8-8 dude. Thats time for a workout, a shit, a commute, and a meal before you're waking up to do it again.

Dec 7, 2012

I prefer working cuz it keeps my mind at ease. Chilling is just a waste of my time.

Dec 7, 2012

You'll be dead in a couple of decades. Why in god's name would you choose to do something where you're just "waiting" for the weekend?

Only one life bro. Find something that interests you, and pursue it.

I think- therefore I fuck

Dec 7, 2012

"Justify" is a pretty strong word. As if it were some crime or great wrongdoing to be "forced" into anything beyond what you perceive to be normal hours. Most salaried employees work roughly 50hrs/week, not 40. I can understand how a college student or someone not accustomed to long hours would have trouble adjusting. A 60hr work week and strong compensation, not by deluded WSO standards, is a pretty ideal spot to be in for most ambitious people. There's nothing wrong with going a different way.

Dec 7, 2012

People do it because it can be intellectually stimulating and enjoyable. But if it's not, the other reasons are...

It's not just about you. Many people have parents or grandparents that will need financial support one day. You will probably get a significant other and kids at some point in your life, and you'd like to be able to provide for them and give them a good life. And when you're not working (weekends, vacations, nights), you need to be able to afford to do the cool stuff you want to do with the only life you get.

I'm not at all saying you have to work 60+ hours a week to do these things, but for the people that choose to do it, it is because it offered the best combination of rewarding work with rewarding pay, such that they decided it was in their best interest to work 60+ hours a week rather than any of their other options.

Anyone can go get a ~40 hour/week job and make $50 - 125K. But if an incremental 20 hours a week allows you to (1) provide for the ones you care about and (2) enjoy the other 108 hours a week much more, that seems like a good trade.

Dec 7, 2012

I may not particularly love 60-65 hour weeks but I look at it as I've already had plenty of fun experiences-now it's time to earn a living. Besides, the stuff most people do on weeknights (watch tv, happy hour, workout) can easily be moved around on your schedule. Joining a 24 hour gym (and paying the inflated fee) was a great decision-I no longer rush to get there or rush through my workouts. Moreover, once your friends all start getting married and having kids you'll find that they're suddenly unavailable-so it becomes easier to focus on your own career.

Incidentally, I get my joy now from logging in to my bank account/savings/investments and watching them grow every 2 weeks. One of these days I'll even have enough but for now it's a pleasure seeing my effort literally pay off. I don't live for the weekend so much as I live for payday, and that's fine with me.

Dec 7, 2012

Analyst at a large developer in top 3 market. 60-65 hrs/week. Always could put in more time.... I look forward to additional responsibility not necessarily time

Dec 7, 2012

Large brokerage firm, 50-55 hours per week. Top producers at the firm work similar hours.

Dec 7, 2012

Big4 RE group, hours vary from 35-90 with the mean being around 60

Edit: Should add that I work in europe

CRE NERD

Dec 7, 2012

Generally I stare at my desk from 9-5 and then get work at 5 just when I get my hopes up that I will be able to leave early. Then I start actually working...

Dec 7, 2012

right, here is a simple proposal.

why not hire 2 people for the place of 1? so if one analyst is doing 120 hours a week, each now does 60 and they split the cheque? it costs the company more or less the same (plus benefits). they are refreshed every morning and the company can get the most out of those pencil pushers.

Dec 7, 2012
Nut:

right, here is a simple proposal.

why not hire 2 people for the place of 1? so if one analyst is doing 120 hours a week, each now does 60 and they split the cheque? it costs the company more or less the same (plus benefits). they are refreshed every morning and the company can get the most out of those pencil pushers.

Because analysts want a high pay and good deal flow. Your proposition would cut the pay in half, which alone would be enough to drive everyone away from the job.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2012

You have to have worked in IB or have a better understanding of it to realise that would never, ever work.

For example, if I'm building a model for a company there is no way I want another analyst in there building it with me - he may use certain excel formulas that I don't like, or may think things should be done a different way etc. It would just be a holy mess.

That's one reason (along with the pay, experience etc) why it would never work.

Also, you don't need to be 100% refreshed every day to do IB (or most jobs, for that matter) - if you're working on PPT, doing some research, working in excel etc, you can be a little tired and work just fine.

    • 1
Dec 7, 2012

And finally, in the case of bankers like the first who posted where they don't have much to do during the day and a lot to do at night, how do you split up the work fairly? One person comes in for 50 hours a week during normal work hours, and does very little real work, and the other comes in at night and works his/her ass off? How is that fair?

If you suggest they both work regular hours, who does the work if it doesn't show up on your desk till 5 pm?

Dec 7, 2012

pensions are disappearing anyway. so what? holidays?

Dec 7, 2012

To answer OP's question, it probably depends a lot on bank and culture. At my bank, if you were there for 100 hours a week you were most likely super busy on something and therefore working for most of that time. If you weren't that busy, you just wouldn't be there for that long.

Dec 7, 2012

Same here. I typically get things done between 9am and 6pm and try to leave the door by 10pm at the latest. of course, things get out of my control at times though... also that depends on your efficiency as well. some people are just... wasting time on trivial stuff and staying in the office way longer than it has to be.

Dec 7, 2012

I think my longer weeks were actually more efficient than my shorter ones. If I worked 100 hours in a week, I would say I'd be grinding for 85% of that time because there's obviously something important that demands constant attention. On the other hand, during a "light" 70 hour week with nothing on my plate, I'd spend most of my time on the internet, shooting the shit with the other analysts, getting multiple coffees, taking leisurely lunches etc. because nothing I was staffed on demanded immediate attention. In those cases, I maybe on worked 35-40 actual hours.

Nov 3, 2011
Slash-Finance:

I think my longer weeks were actually more efficient than my shorter ones. If I worked 100 hours in a week, I would say I'd be grinding for 85% of that time because there's obviously something important that demands constant attention. On the other hand, during a "light" 70 hour week with nothing on my plate, I'd spend most of my time on the internet, shooting the shit with the other analysts, getting multiple coffees, taking leisurely lunches etc. because nothing I was staffed on demanded immediate attention. In those cases, I maybe on worked 35-40 actual hours.

This is spot on.

Dec 7, 2012

How often do you have the light 70 hour weeks with nothing to do half the time?

Dec 7, 2012

deal flow dependent.

Dec 7, 2012

You don't want them often.