Second Year IB Analyst Answering Questions

[quote=bigbadanalyst]

streetwannabe:

I'm in my final year of school at a miserable little institution with no name recognition at all. I've networked as much as I can and believe I've exhausted all reliable/helpful sources. I have decent GPA and experience (3.5 and three internships, one at a boutique IB) and have applied to around 200 different jobs. Haven't had any real opportunities and haven't even had an interview yet.

Long story short, extremely discouraged and very annoyed because I feel like while I may not be getting offers left and right, I expected to at least have some interview invites. What would be my best option going into the spring of my final semester? I've been trying to look into smaller boutiques and specialty advisory firms, however just feel like I've applied for all possible positions available at the moment.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

I know its not my thread, but don't stick to only known sources like alumni. Reach out to random people who share a common thing with you (prep school background, sports, location grown up, rival school). I had great success reaching out to RANDOM people on Linkedin who were only second level connections.

Like many people on this site, I had dreams of 2 years GS/MS, 2 years KKR/BX....honestly, banking is boring and mind numbing. I spoke to many people at PE firms and although they said it was in some ways better than banking (better hours when not on deals, much better pay and perks, somewhat less bullshit) it is inherently the same shit as banking. I didn't want to spend two more years of my life wishing it away. I found the HF path to be more exciting. I love following the markets and investing and can honestly say will enjoy my next job, sure it will inherently be more stressful (losing money vs fucking up the font or something stupid in a pitch book), but for me, it will be much more satisfying.

As for my group, it is a top group at GS/MS, I won't say which as I would like to remain anonymous. I chose it because I liked the analysts I met and the placement was really "sick". From what I have seen, just about every group has placed well. If I had to do it all over again, I would've gone for an elite boutique.

D1 finance:

How did you decide between HF and PE? Which group are you in at your bank and how did you pick it? How different are the exit opps between various groups within your bank?

Thank you.

Well, I don't know you, so I can't say what's best for you. All in I am expecting to come away with $50-70k saved up. I probably could have saved more but blew a lot on nights out and vacations.

I don't think spending everything from your salary is a good rule. You can get fucked on your bonus and have less than you expected.

As for what to spend money on that's up to you. As an analyst, you will barely use your apartment. The best thing to do is split it with a bunch of friends - you save money and you have people to chill with if you ever get home at a normal hour. I think spending money on clothes as an analyst is a waste - you will get the wrong kind of attention, plus you'll be in the clothes for ungodly hours which will cause wear and tear, so why fuck up your expensive suit when the only people that will see you in it are your banking coworkers who cares about impressing those fucks.

I do say spending on going out / vacations as youll have very little free time to enjoy life might as well make the best of it. For now, enjoy college and dollar beers

Raptor.45:

What tips do you have for an incoming first year analyst in NYC in terms of spending/saving money? How much money did you save the first year and how much do you think is a good target to save? Is "spend your salary save your bonus" a good rule? What's worth splurging on and what's best to go cheap on as an analyst (i.e. worth it to splurge on clothes, appt, nights out, etc)?

Well the first thing to do is come up with a good reason as to why not trading and why banking instead. That will be pretty critical and asked in every chat/interview you have.

Haven't seen many laterals to be honest. Lots of kids leaving early for different reasons, but no one replacing them. If the deal environment gets hot, that could change things.

Your best bet is to speak to HR. if you have a compelling argument and have had good performance, I cannot fathom why HR wouldn't want to move you internally if the bankers like you as well. The argument has to be that you love the firm but you want to do banking for so and so reasons and want to stay at the firm.

Another good thing would be to reach out to junior people you met in training on the banking side and seeing if they can help.

It's funny though. I often wished I did trading instead of banking. Grass is always greener my friend.

quag_mire:

I'm currently a first year in S&T (trading) at a top BB, and I've been here since basically 2012 summer when the analyst program started. I had an idealized/naive view of S&T going in, and now i realize that i absolutely hate my desk/nature of the work, and have strongly been considering moving to IBD. Most S&T desks that do somewhat interesting work are going to be shut down/downsized in my bank due to Basel etc, and I am almost 99% sure IBD will be a better fit for me.

I was just wondering whether lateraling into IBD after my first year (I am more than willing to restart as a first year analyst) is realistic, and whether you have seen people enter the IBD analyst program by lateraling from somewhere else, especially from non-IBD, front office roles like research, trading etc

Whom do I talk to within the firm to try transferring out after my first year? I'm afraid to ask anyone in HR because they might not like me ditching my group after only 1 year in, and all the other senior people i know are within S&T, not IBD. Any pointers you may have for me would be great. Thanks, and sorry for the rant above!

I honestly have only come across one lateral analyst at my bank. It could just be my bank, so can't really speak about others. I would imagine it's more to do with the hiring and deal environment today. This could be a different story in a year or two if things change.

doriolisdog:

Thanks for the great replies so far. I was curious, since you mentioned you are working at a top BB group, about how often people were able to lateral into your group or similarly strong groups. If there are a good number of laterals, are they typically from within the bank, or from other well known banks?

Do laterals face a different or tougher recruiting schedule for hedge funds and PE shops? Thanks.

Everything is an interview. No one is really wasting their time getting to know you for fun. This isn't match.com. Any communication like emails, networking sessions, phone calls, and coffee are interviews. Don't make that mistake again. You don't get many chances like that.

ltdsting26:

I had a phone call today with a 3rd yr analyst at a BB that I thought was going to be just networking/an informational interview where I could ask questions. 5 minutes in I am being asked about my background, then job experience, and then a number of technicals. It was by no means planned to be an interview, but my responses were not as polished as I'd hoped because I was basically shell-shocked. There was no lead in saying that he'd ask me some sample questions for experience or anything.

I guess I just don't know what to think about it. Could this have been an interview for an interview? Is this a common thing to do?

It's an uphill battle for sure. Phone interviews make it harder to connect to the interviewer than in person. You want to sound friendly and confident. Above all else, you want to have perfect answers. Like the poster above expect technicals (which you should nail 100%)

Prangs:

How does a non-target student turn a first round phone interview into a second round or superday?

Yes, with anything in life likeability is very important. It is a hard question to answer as every interviewer is a different person who likes different things.

At the minimum, first impressions are key. Neatly dressed and groomed, confident posture, smile, eye contact and firm (hopefully not sweaty) handshake. Beyond that it's all about speaking confidently and with enthusiasm.

Ultimately, your interviewer is asking himself do I see myself spending 100 hours a week with this monkey. Of course having similar interests or backgrounds would help, but if you sound like a cool guy who is excited about banking, that should be enough in that department.

henryxub:

How would you make your interviewers like you during an interview? I was told it is more important than nailing some technical questions.

These thoughts are based on talking to my friends at these boutiques.

By far, Blackstone M&A and Restructuring (restructuring is the stronger group, but dont choose based on that - choose based on your interest). They placed better than any bank on the street this year and do so consistently every year. This year, they had kids get funds like Baupost, SAC and Och Ziff - havent heard of any other banks that placed that well. My friends there generally have better hours. The pay is also at the high end of the street (second years get 6 figure bonuses).

Have heard great things about Centerview as well. Great culture and people and pay is way above street, but for those looking to leave - this wouldnt be the best place to go.

Evercore / Greenhill have great cultures and place pretty well but their classes are bigger and there is a larger variance in people's experiences and exits.

D1 finance:

Which elite boutiques, specifically, would you rather have worked for? Are analysts at these firms recruited as hard as GS/MS analysts?

If it was me, I would just be straight up. Tell him you enjoyed lunch and would love to be able to meet with others in his group. If he liked you, he wouldnt mind passing your resume to others.

orangebull:

Is there a good way to ask for referrals from people you barely know? So you cold emailed an analyst and talked with him on the phone, then you met up with him for lunch a few months later. Is there a way you could ever meet a VP or MD of his group?

I was able to do both processes, but I wasnt really serious about PE. You definitely want to figure it out as soon as you can. On the hedge fund side most of the headhunters want people that have the "hedge fund or bust" mentality.

I was getting calls from random headhunters 1 week into the job - no joke. The more legit hedge fund headhunters and other legit headhunters reached out in October/November - so you have some time.

Realize that the interviews for PE and HF will be very different, so preparation will be different. On the hedge fund side you want to be following the markets and have a few stock pitches down to a tea (you will be grilled on them). Beyond that, the hedge fund process is really different between funds and interviewers - you can get brainteasers, econ questions, valuation questions, fit questions and so on. Some will have a modeling exam - will generally be an operating model / dcf type model.

Tons of book threads on this site - read as much as you can. Your learning in banking will plateau at some point.

westsider:

Couple of recruiting questions from an incoming 1st year at GS/MS:

Do you have to decide PE/HF out of the gate, or can you recruit for both (definitely leaning towards HF, but don't want to rule out PE before day 1)?

What's the timeline for when HF's and headhunters reach out and start recruiting?

Any skills I should pick up, book to read, or any other recommendations to best prepare for the HF recruiting scene?

Thanks a lot.

It has generally been better. You know your way around shit and can do things much more efficiently. You get the chance to work on more live situations if you want but that also equates to more hours. Ultimately, as a second year, I am not afraid to push back on deadlines that are retarded and have been able to enjoy much more time out of the office. I suspect the next 6 months will keep getting better and better as I become more and more checked out.

tangent style:

How has work changed from your 1st year as an analyst to now?

It's really hard to say I have had periods where all I was doing was modeling and periods were all I was doing was PowerPoint shit. Either way the modeling plays just a part in the job you have many other responsibilities.

tangent style:

[Maybe has been asked before, so ignore if you want to]

What's the work split between modelling and valuing companies versus drafting documents like CIMs and editing PowerPoints?

Kids today are funny. You're already planning every internship? Why not shoot for doing front office work at a BB? You are doing PWM at MS. Why not leverage that to getting into other parts of the firm??

firestormllp:

Will M&A advisory internship in summer after sophomore year at companies like Deloitte be transferable to BB IBD opportunities for summer after junior year, or should I consider regional PE or IB opportunities? I am only in my freshman year now, and am doing PWM at Morgan Stanley, and am working on a second internship in regional PE or IB for the summer.

There should be a date on the offer letter or your OCR policy (which isn't always followed). If not, ask when they need to know by. If it's a tight deadline, try to accelerate your other processes and only do the ones that are meaningfully better. If that doesn't work, accept the offer and keep interviewing - just be careful. You will burn a bridge, but if your off to a better firm is that a bridge you ever want to cross again? Once you live in the penthouse, it's hard to go back to your pre-war shit walk up in the east village....

crawl_b4-bawl:

What do you think is the longest time one can stall after getting an offer? Don't want to burn bridges at this bank but would like to have as long as possible to leverage the offer.

Thanks.

My biggest regret is not leaving early. Some HFs will recruit for an immediate start. Although I am sure there are some benefits to going through the IB program in its entirety, I have found it to be a waste of time Sure, I still learn new things here and there, but none of it excites me or will be that applicable to the next job, so I feel that the past 6 months and the next 6 months will is a waste of time.

tangent style:

Any big regrets from your analyst stint? (Projects/work you wish you had been staffed on, skills you wish you had developed, opportunities you wish you had pursued)

Well there's just less optionality than the PE track. There's a thread going on now that describes that in further length.

And haha I don't know man. Haven't really thought beyond HF. I hope to spend the rest of my career in the HF world. I suppose there other less prestigious funds or going back to business school? How about focus on kicking ass than the idea of getting fired from two firms??

zeroblued:

Why do a lot of people say that going HF early is becoming too specialized early on?

what are the options after HF, or lateral? lets say worst case scenario, one gets fired from HF, and then fired from say a 2nd HF or has a bad track record somehow. Where do you go from there?

Yes, I have worked with both. Generally, the associates that were promoted as analysts are far better to work with. They not only have the technical ability, but they "get it". Dont be the douchebag that hits the floor and starts bossing around analysts so you can impress your superiors, especially by making them do mindless shit that wont add any real value. The analysts will get fed up pretty quickly, talk shit behind your back and push back on you when you need them most.

Try to cut out the bullshit with them, lend a hand with the work and be understanding. Generally, first year associates will be paired with second year analysts in the beginning. Realize the analyst has been doing the job far longer than you have, knows a lot more than you and is probably worn down and hates life. Working with an associate that is "nice" and understands how much the job sucks is generally pretty refreshing - at the end of the day, you and him just want to get out at a reasonable hour. Obviously, it is hard to balance having the analyst like you and impressing your superiors - I just gave you the analyst's perspective, cant give you more than that unfortunately.

mappleby:

Have you worked for any associates who were straight from MBA programs and not IB analysts first? If yes how were they and any suggestions for somebody who will potentially be in that position in the future?

The process varies by fund. I would say be prepared to talk about yourself, your deals, your interest in PE, your interest in that specific fund, be able to speak about LBO, some funds asked paper LBO questions, general finance technical questions and investment ideas (I would keep your investment idea to a company that fits general LBO criteria). Some funds will have modeling tests, be comfortable building them from scratch - would practice doing a few with different assumptions and what not.

coldfire:

Hi - thanks for this!

Quick question - was wondering if you could talk about the MM PE interview process and what IB analysts should do in terms of preparing and what the interview actually is like at MM PE shops?

Charles-perry:

When trying to show you have a personality... what if you don't do whatever every other banker does i.e. marathon running, swimming, investing, reading or travelling. What if your a gym goer or enjoy creating online media or something different. Auto-dinge? (most people I see who get through have 'standard' hobbies which is why I'm asking).

Why do bankers look for someone who can play a musical instrument, is team captain of a sports team etc - what if your just a normal guy whose cool to be around but not 'top class' in everything he puts his hand on? He doesn't deserve to be in IBD?

In interviews shared interests are always a plus but especially these days not all bankers are cookie cutter clones of each other. They have diverse interests too. What your interests are is not as important as showing you have a passion for them and can express that passion. They just want to make sure you're well rounded and not someone who is going to burn out in a few months. And for associate interviews being well rounded means you have a better chance of interacting well with clients and being able to move up.