Ask me anything: Ex BB IBD analyst

Coast1's picture
Rank: Baboon | 121

Hi all

Gained a lot of useful knowledge here back in the day. Have just started a PE gig after 3 yrs in BB IBD in London. More details on me below.

Started this thread as a thank you for the useful info I got here over the yrs, and for the site teaching me to take all info on the internet with a pinch of salt ;) never posted here before but that means nothing really, have read many threads in last 4-5 yrs. have kept my details vague but it's enough to guide you.

Ask me anything at all about IBD etc, but prefer not to talk much about the new PE gig as I just started it in last 3 mths

Experience: 3 yrs in BB industry group
Location: London
Background: 3.9 GPA equiv at target university with HSS degree

Ask away...

Comments (74)

Nov 27, 2013

Can you tell us something about your path to the analyst stint? Past internships, for example? I assume that with your credentials, breaking into IB was not much of a hassle?

Nov 27, 2013

Yep - came in thru the summer analyst program. My uni was targeted by all the major banks. I had the right relevant academic background (economics) too. No other meaningful internships pre SA but I did play the equity markets etc and always wanted to go into the m&a world.

Not that insightful I know, but it is what it is

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Nov 27, 2013

I am at a non target european university and planning to do a masters degree in Finance at the UK. Apart from LSE, Oxbridge, do I stand a good chance with an MSc from Imperial College London? I am interested in IBD/PE/ER.

Nov 27, 2013

How did you prepare for PE interviews and how much attention did your group get from HHs? Do I have to/Should I be proactive if I'm at GS/JPM/MS?

Nov 27, 2013

What qualities/habits made the best analysts in your group?

Nov 27, 2013

nice to know you attended LSE

Nov 27, 2013

Seeker - there are plenty with imperial degrees but I didn't even know imperial had a finance program. Happy to be corrected but I we think sse, IEse, Bocconi etc are better bets for masters in finance. Most analysts in London weren't uk educated anyway.

Discounted cash bro - those are the top 3 firms so ur obviously well positioned. I never reached out to HH (they contacted us regularly) and doubt you will need to, but obviously worth covering all your bases. All groups at BB are well covered by HH, but GS and JPM in particular are the best connected. Activity heats up towards end of year 2 in general

Regarding interviews - this is well covered elsewhere on the site
- Know your deals inside out (this includes having a well thought out opinion in whether it hey were good value for the buyer and/or your client.)
- Demonstrate that you think like an investor ie you actually learned something in banking and don't just make slides look nice
. - Know how to do a paper LBO like the back of your hand. Detailed case study comes later usually. Modelling / valuation expertise is a prerequisite for this obviously
- be perseverent - some hiring processes take months. Mine did
- above all THINK INDEPENDENTLY and isn't be phased by new questions. Always think, what are the logical avenues I could go down here. Eg if they ask what are the pros and cons of sub debt vs hybrid / pref equity vs pik capital, be systematic: think what are the differences betweent the instruments? Then what is relevant to a pe fund? Then what are some scenarios where you prefer one characteristic to the other?

Basically - after a few yrs of banking you should know how to give any new problem a good informed stab...

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Best Response
Nov 27, 2013

Yaoming, some of this you will have heard before

- technical skills, industry understanding, attention to detail, availability at all hrs, etc: all of these are a given. So the below are some more qualitative points

- Ability to have supporters in the right places: eg one analyst in my group gained the trust of a quality MD in year 1. From then on he never seemed to get staffed with an associate. He also went to all the mtgs on his deals and got a hell of a lot of client experience in the process. If you can swing it so that a senior guy always requests you on his projects, you are golden. To do this you need to get lucky enough to get staffed on the rig high profile project, then blow it out of the water. So recognize the opportunity when you see it!

- make associates your friends, not your enemies. The bad ones will ruin your life if you don't; the good ones will teach you so much if you do, and will trust you

- find a 'niche'. Especially in an industry group you are in a great position if you are the go to guy in a specific vertical

- Take the time to understand products if a coverage banker, and vice versa if a product banker. If you 'get' leveraged finance, LBO work becomes so much easier. Ditto for m&a analysis (acc/dil etc) if you truly understand what drives a company to pursue m&a and what the key value drivers would be . If a deal will be dilutive, you shd intuitively know that prior to ever modelling it, and the be able to explain why your client should do it anyway (otherwise hopefully you wouldn't have been asked to do the analysis in the first place!)

What the above all boils down to is - make yourself indispensable, the go-to guy as some ppl call it. Those are the guys who get ranked 1 and 2a

    • 3
Nov 27, 2013

To be completely honest, did you enjoy it?
How was the job (IB) different from what you expected in your college days?
Why did you pick IB instead of say S&T, AM, CM, etc.?
How do you think your on the job education/experience was compared to if you had been in a product group? (Also, if you don't mind, which industry did you cover?)

Nov 27, 2013

Would you take the same path if you could do things over again, or would you have gone a different route?
What are your future goals? MBA? Stay in PE for a while?

Nov 27, 2013

Leveraged bailout:

Yes. Honestly I enjoyed it. There are a lot of crappy days, weeks, etc, but you learn a hell of a lot and meet some great people. I guess the right way to put it is: I did not enjoy every day, far from it, but the overall experience i had was great.

The major difference would be (not joking) how entrepreneurial the job can be within a few yrs if you work with the right ppl. There are great opportunities to 'step up' in banking if you do well in London (see the analyst I mentioned who never worked with associates.) however, this also made me want to leave more: I didn't want to do another 3 yrs as a 'junior' with ultimately limitied responsiblity, even if nominally promote to associate. Fundamentally analyst and associate positions are not that different...

IB was what I always wanted. I like deals and I like long term projects. I don't have a public market mindset

Industry vs product depends on the bank. GS for example combines the two as far as I understand. But in general, depends where you want to end up. If aiming for buy side I would go for industry groups, as you actually learn about business models, business plans etc. we did All the modelling and valuation in our group. If you want to stay in banking, you need to do both coverage and product at some point to learn both skill sets. But remember that every bank does run things differently so don't take this as gospel.
Won't say my group but I would say that if you want to do PE, traditional industries such as industrials, TMT, healthcare, consumer, retail are the best ways to go. Natres is really interesting but the businesses models and considerations are totally different. FIG is just FIG...

Mrharveyspecter:

Yes.i knew going in I wanted to come out on buyside. Key points for this are obvious: join a big group covering diverse businesses in a well reputed bank with strong deal flow. I never learned much from pitching.

I plan to stay in PE. MBA isn't appealing to me and not necessary in Europe.

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Nov 27, 2013

In terms of living situation...
How long was your commute to work and what would be considered a reasonable commute from your experience?
Which neighborhoods did you and your colleagues live in?

Nov 27, 2013

Cotton eyed joe:

Mine was 30 mins or so. That is not unusual. Don't go fro more than 45min. Not sure if u based in City or the wharf, but don't live in canary wharf.

People live everywhere, most common for analysts are (deep breath): marylebone, Chelsea, South ken, earls court, Victoria, Westminster, Waterloo, London bridge, bermondsey, canary wharf, lime house, angel, kings cross

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Nov 27, 2013

Did you have a girlfriend during your 3 years? If so how was it / any tips?

Top groups in London at Citi and Barclays?

Nov 27, 2013

I'm interested in London IBD myself, even though I'm a US citizen. What was the process like for you to go to London (did you need a Visa, have to network exclusively with London analysts, etc)?

Nov 27, 2013

An extension to the living arrangement question, when you were an SA, where did you live? and where did your fellow interns live?

Currently preparing for a 2014 SA stint and trying to keep costs low as possible, so looking at university accommodation that they rent out for summer (CASS etc). any tips much appreciated, thanks in advance

Nov 27, 2013

@OxfordForLife :
I did, for most of the time. It isn't easy (esp in the 1st yr) but she 'got it'. Some girls don't.
At Barclays, the UK teams are among the best in London. UK m&a / ECM etc. the nat res groups also supposed to be good. I'm not that familiar with Citi.

@m56 :
Hard to say as I'm a European citizen and European educated. If you are European educated, the banks will recruit at your place. If US educated and you want to come to Europe, probably need to network in or try to transfer geographies after 2 yrs. that said, there were a few analysts in my bank who were US educated, and I think they went through the normal online application route.

@TheCityBoy :
Best to rent out student accom. Look at cass, ucl, LSE etc. also, try the Nido in spitalifields, it's pretty nice. Other summer analysts will be there too.
Short lets are very expensive so avoid if you can - student accom or staying with friends / family is best - but gumtree etc is certainly an option.

Nov 27, 2013

What do you think, which of these two would give me better chance in landing an FO role (undergrad programmes)? I know they are both kind of a nontarget, but still: an undergrad KCL degree or an undergrad Cass degree?

Nov 27, 2013

@Zevore

I don't know them well enough to answer definitively, but we did have FO analysts from Kings. I wasn't aware of any from Cass.

At Kings, what subject you do will clearly be important. I think our guys from kings had business or economics backgrounds (not necessary if from LSE, Oxbridge etc).

Nov 28, 2013

Hi Coast1, thanks for doing this - really valuable info, especially considering I'm also based in the UK.

Q. How well targeted is Warwick undergrad for FO IB, and what was the representation of Warwick grads in your group/bank at the analyst level? I know the banks regularly visit on-campus but would be interesting to hear your insights...

Nov 28, 2013

^There are plenty of analysts from Warwick in London IB.

Nov 28, 2013

@simon-kemp @above_and_beyond

Yep as he said - Warwick is a strong target for IB. Well represented across banks, one of the top 2-3 places outside LSE / Oxbridge, certainly the best business/finance programme.

Nov 28, 2013
Coast1:

@simon-kemp @above_and_beyond

Yep as he said - Warwick is a strong target for IB. Well represented across banks, one of the top 2-3 places outside LSE / Oxbridge, certainly the best business/finance programme.

Nice, thanks - starting there next year on their business undergrad course.

Q. Doing a stint in the M&A Advisory practice of a Big4 in London this year, have been told to get to get to grips with Excel and PPT before I join. Any resources you used or know of that you would suggest? Or did you learn most of this on-the job? I'm on a gap year pre-university so haven't done any finance or Excel courses as of yet, so would be starting out at quite a basic level.

Nov 28, 2013

I did my undergrad at a non-target uni, since graduating I have realised that I want to get into banking but don't have the necessary work experience or credentials. Do you think the best route for me is to do a masters in finance (I am looking abroad to IE, St Gallen, Bocconi or Esade) or to go to a less known IB then try to network and transfer to one of the BB's?
I want to end up on the buy side, if I went to a smaller IB would it be possible to go to a good buy side firm or do they only really recruit from major players?

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Nov 28, 2013

@simon-kemp
Not sure about PPT. Suggest looking at some precedent fairness opinions for m&a deals (eg Dell buyout) via the SEC website, and trying to recreat similar template pages in PPT. If you can't find this let me know and I'll find a link later.
On XLS, we had an internship take home training which was from either AMT or Training the Street, can't remember. I would suggest looking at TTS and breakinginto Wall Street, and seeing whether they have any combo Excel and valuation training modules. It is most useful to learn Excel while actually using financial models. May be expensive but that's just how it is. Anyone else here have experience of a n XLS training they bought themselves?
Also, Investment Banking by Rosenbaum and Pearl (which I recommend as an entry level text) has some decent XLS templates that you can download online. I would look thru these to familiarise yourself with basic valuation models.
In general if you are pre-uni I doubt they expect much but it's always ideal to outperform...

@10kentoo
I think the masters in finance at a reputable European uni is a better trodden route. You can do a summer internship post the Mfin and then startfull time in the following January. Frankly, BB IBD training programmes are consistent and good. High quality boutiques (Moelis, Evercore etc) will obviously be similar. I have no idea what you will get training-wise at a lesser known firm.
Regarding the unis you mentioned, all are obviously good. I have worked with great Bocconi people in particular.
Regarding the buyside, depends wha type of fund you are looking for? Working at a high quality BB is always the best way to maximise your optionality down the line. There is no such thing as 'only' or 'impossible' but if you want KKR... Try to work at GS or JPM!

I can go into more detail on recruiting if helpful, but let me know and ask as specific questions as possible please.

Nov 28, 2013

How respected is BAML in London when it comes to PE recruitment? Any special specific group one should aim for, at baml?

Nov 28, 2013

Thank you so much for the reply, the feedback that I have had from the University route has been overall positive so I think I will definitely pursue it. Regards to what I want to do after I am more interested in going to a HF than into PE, would you say the training you got would prepare you for a HF? What division in the IB would you try to get in for HF's? Additionally would HF's rather recruit you from AM's such as BlackRock, Fidelity, Schroders?

Nov 28, 2013

Hi Coast1 thanks for doing this.

What is your view on FIG coverage in London? Best teams (Is Barclays one of them?)?
How would Barclays FIG prepare you for Hedge funds and maybe PE?

Thanks!

Nov 28, 2013

was it worth it?

"The cheaper the crook, the gaudier the patter"

Nov 28, 2013

@GoldenGod
BAML does fine and you should be fine if well ranked. In my experience , the firm matters more than the group (assuming you are in a group where you will execute a lot of deals.) I'm going to get crucified for this, but below is my view on BB tiers by buyside exit opps.

A few caveats / general points before starting
- this is based in my experience and assumes a 'traditional' industry / m&a group placement (industrials, TMT, healthcare, consumer, retail, generalist)
- quite obviously, a top ranking guy from tier 3 can easily outperform a mid ranking guy from tier 1 (or even a top ranking guy from tier 1, if you get lucky or are a genuine star). This is just to illustrate the starting assumptions recruiters and funds will have
- I don't have good insight on boutiques but would probably place the top tier ones in tier 2/3 of the below. Working at Evercore or Moelis or Lazard will obviously not hurt you, assuming you get LBO experience (which is less of a given than at a BB - ask if not clear why)
- I pvsly told someone by PM that I have no insight on how consulting firms do, but have since been told that McK and Bain do well at advent and BCP in particular

Ok, here goes, my opinion (ranked by PE opps only)
Tier 1: GS, JPM
Tier 2: MS, CS
Tier 3: baml, DB
Tier 4: Barclays, Citi, UBS
Tier 5: everything else

@10kentoo
Let me get back to you in this one. I will ask the guys I know who went to hedge funds. I didn't pursue it so dint know personally.

@tripleB
Barclays FIG is strong, solid tier 2. On the whole not as strong as the GS/JPM/MS brand name but good otherwise.
Personally I would recommend avoiding FIG unless you have a really strong interest in being in FIG on the buyside. FIG businesses are not like anything else (ask if not clear why.) Though I do know FIG guys who did well in buyside recruiting, I strongly believe the skills you learn in FIG are not as applicable to 'normal' businesses as the traditional industries are.

@OutsideMan
For me, absolutely. I know very few who would disagree.
You will be miserable from time to time, no doubt. But the overall experience gives you a great knowledge base, pay, and set of friends/network.

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Nov 29, 2013

how many deals did you work on in your 3 years? And by "work on" I mean how many deals did you work on from start to finish / how many deal toys do you have?

You know you've been working too hard when you stop dreaming about bottles of champagne and hordes of naked women, and start dreaming about conditional formatting and circular references.

Nov 29, 2013

You mentioned having a few US educated analysts working with you - what about interns? Is it common to have US educated interns in UK?

Nov 29, 2013

You might have answered this before, but I wanted a bit more clarity if you do not mind...

Are exit opps into PE more 'brand-focused' or 'experience-focused' ? I would think that PE firms want to attract analysts with solid experience to their firm.. so, was wondering what the outlook is for say, an analyst at an MM/upcoming BB (think Wells, RBC) firm that has solid deal experience and glowing recommendations vs your, I guess run of the mill BB analyst. Also, do you have any insight into HF recruiting for the two analysts I described above?

Thanks in advance

Nov 29, 2013

1st of all thank you for taking the time to do this.

1) Which EU school outside of the UK is the best bet for a msc finance and IB in London? I'm particularly interested in SSE - your opinion?

2) In your professional career have you came across anyone who has leveraged his IB BB experience to start his own practice in less developed markets?

3) At what point in your 3 years you developed the exit opp mindset? Did you manage to perform while thinking of exiting?

Good luck and thanks!

Nov 29, 2013

@Zweihander
1 m&a advisory deal, 1 LBO financing, c.5 capital markets / financing deals (includes dividend recap, straight recap, followon/block, uspp)
Numerous others that were in progress or failed or our buyer didn't win, including 2 sell sides and 3 buysides, a privatisation, and numerous IPOs / Potemtial IPOs.

@BBwayne
Definitely brand focused. Not heard of wells and RBC type firms doing well in large cap pe recruiting. Of course, if you want to do VC and work Alan up and coming tech boutique, that could be ideal, but wouldn't know.
A 'run of the mill' BB analyst will likely get far more meaningful deal experience than someone at a firm that does far less m&a work.
I dint have insight into HF recruiting but doubt it would be any different.

@M.Tod
1.SSE, Bocconi, HEC prob the best. IE is good too.
2. Do you mean an analyst leaving to start his own advisory practice in home market? I have not. If you mean experienced people, sure. But more often they just join a local firm. Scandinavians are well known for doing this.
3. After about 2 yrs I started ramping it up. But I knew going in I would leave after 2-3 yrs. you do form some sort of attachment to the firm though in most cases, if you like your team. It only affected my work when I got the offer, and i resigned right afterwards anyway. However, case studies and interviews are obviously difficult to schedule, I have heard of them happening at wkends and at insane times on wkdays.

Nov 29, 2013

I currently go to school in U.S. but will be studying abroad in Europe. I am working at a BB FT after graduation, and interested in buyside in Europe after banking (my family in european and I am originally from there).
What is the best way to network/take advantage of being in Europe for a year? I won't be in the UK and I know most pe jobs are there, but I'll be close enough. Any conferences/networking events you recommend?

Nov 29, 2013

@Pat1120
Majority of full time analysts came thru the internship program. I wouldn't say there are a large amount of US educated analysts / interns in London, but there are certainly a few. Majority had some sort of study abroad experience in Europe, or another connection.

@HEBanker
See the above - you should be fine. If you already have a full time US offer from a BB, I would recommend making contact we the relevant headhunters during your time in Europe and laying,out what you want to achieve. Your logical routes into Europe are either to go thru one of these HHS after a few yrs in the US in banking, or to lateral within a PE fund after joining their US office. The 2nd route is obviously achievable if you are good though note that European local market knowledge is much more specialised and tailored than that in the us. The 1st route is not something I've seen much of, but you have a fairly unique position so it could work out if you are at an a-grade bank and establish the right recruiting relationships early.
Don't know about networking events but why not use your uni alumni database to see if anyone in relevant positions in London or Europe you can speak to?
Also, obviously meet as many Europeans as you can who will be going into finance (at your level ie fellow students), this will be invaluable during buyside recruiting and in the future

Nov 30, 2013

Okay thank you for your answer. Do you mind if I message you with a more specific question?

Nov 30, 2013

Hi Coast1 thanks for doing this.

I am an european MEng student from a non-target with no relevant experience and I would like to work in IBD at a BB in London.

I think the best chance is to do a MSc in Finance from a target right after my MEng.

Beyond LSE, Oxford, HEC, Bocconi, SSE, Imperial, St Gallen, Warwick, IE, Esade it is still worth to apply to other programs (ESSEC, Rotterdam, Cass)?

Any sort of advice is really appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Nov 30, 2013

@DreamingWL
I think you covered all the good ones there. Essec not as good as HEC. I don't have a good read on cass as didn't know anyone from there.
As said before, I don't have a masters so am not the best person to ask on this.
Also note that oxford and imperials are not known for finance. Majority of bankers from those places are out of undergrad or more traditional masters. Perhaps the Mfin degrees are ok too but I really don't know anyone in banking who has those masters.

Guys, would just like to reiterate that I don't have a masters in anything financey so I can only give broad directional input on them.

Nov 30, 2013

@Coast1

Q. Pretty generic but what were your hours like during Year 1, compared to Year 2 & 3?
Q. Did you do anything at uni that you felt made you stand out from the rest of the crowd when applying to IB initially?

Nov 30, 2013

Any plans about what you want to do in the longterm?

Nov 30, 2013

Hey, thanks for doing this!

I work in the states, so I was wondering how bonuses are in the UK? Also, were they higher or below your personal estimates?

Furthermore, what does it take to be ranked number one in one's given group? I've heard many say that you have to sacrifice your the social life (more so than you already do as an IBD analyst), out shine your peers, and be the overall "star". Is there any truth to this, and if so, is the sacrifice really worth it?

Also, does being ranked number one lead to more buy-side opportunities? Do some headhunters only recruit "star" analysts in a group?

Thanks for the advice!

I'm bi-winning. I win here, and I win there.

Nov 30, 2013

What's the effective tax rate of a high earner in London? I'm thinking over 50%, correct? How has the tax situation impacted your choices, if at all?

Nov 30, 2013

great post, questions and answers
i might post some question as well

anyway, thanks for doing this, +sb

Dec 1, 2013

@Coast1
What are the most important factors in giving an intern a full-time offer at GS/MS/JP?

Dec 1, 2013

@simon-kemp
Year 1 was 90ish hrs on avg, yrs 2-3 more like 80 in avg. Worst weeks were like 110 across the board. I had 3-4 of those.
I would say beyond yr 1 it gets much better. Reasons for this are
- improved efficiency and knowledge: eg running capacity analysis and basic acc/dil for 10 buyers would take you half a Satuday in yr 1, but can be drafted in an hour once you know the ropes. Learning curve is steep in banking!
- less crappy staffing
- more ability to push back
- if you are good, people trust you and don't push you every 5 min as long as you stick to deadlines
- less staffing with associates ie less pointless iteration
- more ability to work remotely esp at wkends. In yrs 2-3 I would only go to office at wkend if it was really necessary, otherwise can work from home

At uni - I don't think I did anything special there, but I had a strong academic background, played high level sport, did a few other extracurrics, and was able to clearly articulate my goals and interests. You should just have a coherent story. Here is the best guide on this topic that I learned a lot from. The system won't let me post links so google these if they don't work

@HEBanker
Sure - prefer to keep it here but if there's a good reason no problem

@Space_Marine
Good question. I don't have something too specific in mind. I want to move abroad for a few yrs (US or Asia) pretty soon. I think it will depend on where I see opportunities in next few yrs, and how much I enjoy PE.

@DCDepository
It has not impacted my choices.
It will be up to c.40% all in at jr level. Income tax bands are 0 below c.7k, then 20% up to c.40k, then 40% up to c.150k, then 50% above that. But you also pay national insurance contributions, which I think of as 'tax'
You can check what your take home pay will be using the below link
Listentotaxman dot com

Dec 1, 2013

@stillwinnning @Suitup1410
Your questions are similar so answering together.

Re bonuses: numbers in the below link. They won't increase meaningfully in the coming years.
dartmouthpartners dot com slash something-for-the-weekend-the-dartmouth-partners-2013-analyst-bonus-survey/

Re 'how to outperform or get an offer': before I add some more thoughts, I would refer you to my comments earlier in the thread as well as to the below link.

In my experience, being ranked #1 or #2 is very important for buyside recruiting if you are not at one of the top 3-4 banks. Average ranked analysts at eg Goldman > are still placed reasonably well, though better to be a 1. Some funds do have a 'ranking' filter in their search. After all, why wouldn't they!? Much easier to let the banks do pre-ranking for them... And in my experience, no one gets a 1 ranking without deserving it.

However, I don't think being top ranked requires killing yourself more than the other analysts. Perhaps London is different from New York, but the top ranking analysts in my firm exhibited a few characteristics:
- confident, articulate, and precise in communication
- carved out a clear 'niche' in their group. The go-to person for specific industries
- always calm under pressure
- ability to understand and critically assess outputs
- ability to out together a high quality pitchbook shell

What this all adds up to is the below: in every group, if you asked all the MDs / VPs 'which analyst would you want to take to a client meeting?', whoever they answer is the person who's the 1 in that group. This isn't to say that analysts' job is to present to clients: certainly not. But, the characteristics that make someone a good candidate to bring to a meeting as backup are the same as the characteristics that make a good analyst: calm, on top of the numbers, ability to clearly articulate findings, and a no-bullshit individual.

So what do you need to do? Well, as I said above, get into a good group, get staffed on a good deal with lots of people to impress, then blow them away. Then carve out your niche. It's not rocket science. And I really don't agree that you have to work harder than the other analysts to do this. You just have to work smarter. And be humble.

(Also: my #1 analytical tip above ALL ELSE: if you update some numbers, check the outputs vs the PDF of the previous version. Can you explain why everything changed that did change, and the amount it moved by? If not, don't send it to your assoc/vp until you do. If you create some analysis, do the outputs make sense? Are they in line with what you expect? If not, don't send it to yor assoc/vp until you do.)

Dec 1, 2013

Thanks for your reply! I've another one:

could you give an example of both articulate/precise and inarticulate/imprecise communication that occured in a real IB situation? I mean, obviously everyone tries to communicate well, but I wonder how do you measure that when ranking analysts.

Best.

Dec 1, 2013

Great thread. Have you heard of any big differences between your experience and that of your peers in other groups/banks?

I would give you a SB if I had one.

Dec 2, 2013

@Coast1

Q. BBs probably have hundreds of students applying for spring weeks/summer internships through the standard online application process. Obviously they can't go through all the applications so I guess they filter them out...with that in mind, what sort of impact would networking with analysts/associates at the firm have on being able to get onto one of the programmes? e.g. would analysts/associates have the ability to push CVs to the relevant HR people if someone impressed them? Any insights you have on this and the filtering recruitment process would be appreciated...thanks again, great thread.

Dec 2, 2013

Guys, everyone here please also read the below thread by @compinvbanker . The author is in a very similar position to me and his insights will be valuable to you.
wallstreetoasis dot com/forums/ask-me-anything-london-bb-ibd-to-top-3-pe

@simon-kemp
Sure why not! If they like you then I don't see why not. No one ever tried with me but I would have been happy to recommend them if so

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Dec 2, 2013

@tangent style
No - in the m&a focused teams the experience is similar across all firms

@Space_Marine
Will try and think of some useful examples - chase if I don't reply in a few days

    • 1
Dec 3, 2013

@Coast1 - No problem and thank you in advance!

Dec 6, 2013

Hi there!
Many thanks for sharing your highly insightfull experience with us. It has been a real pleasure reading you.
I've been recently fortunate enough to receive 1 off-cycle and 1 summer internship offers from 2 major BB in IBD. The off-cycle starts in early March and ends in May while the summer internship is a 10 week internship starting in June.
Here is my issue:
My goal is to land a FT at the bank at which I will do the summer internship. However if I receive a FT after the off-cycle I will likely sign it to play it safe.
Do you think it is legally, ethically fair to go ahead and still do the summer internship and accept a second FT offer from my favourite bank? Has anyone been faced with a similar situation in the past?

Dec 6, 2013
questmark:

Hi there!

Many thanks for sharing your highly insightfull experience with us. It has been a real pleasure reading you.

I've been recently fortunate enough to receive 1 off-cycle and 1 summer internship offers from 2 major BB in IBD. The off-cycle starts in early March and ends in May while the summer internship is a 10 week internship starting in June.

Here is my issue:

My goal is to land a FT at the bank at which I will do the summer internship. However if I receive a FT after the off-cycle I will likely sign it to play it safe.

Do you think it is legally, ethically fair to go ahead and still do the summer internship and accept a second FT offer from my favourite bank? Has anyone been faced with a similar situation in the past?

make it a new thread, do not ask here

Dec 8, 2013

Hi Coast1, thanks for the thread, it really helps to learn from someone who's been through the process. I was wondering about your opinion about boutiques in London (e.g.Moelis). I've heard you can get a really good training there, and since they're growing very aggressively, there is a lot of opportunity to be more visible and contribute more, as opposed to bigger teams in BB. What's your opinion on those, and would you recommend choosing a boutique vs. a BB?

Dec 8, 2013
HBen:

Hi Coast1, thanks for the thread, it really helps to learn from someone who's been through the process. I was wondering about your opinion about boutiques in London (e.g.Moelis). I've heard you can get a really good training there, and since they're growing very aggressively, there is a lot of opportunity to be more visible and contribute more, as opposed to bigger teams in BB. What's your opinion on those, and would you recommend choosing a boutique vs. a BB?

Total nonsense in my opinion. As an analyst in Europe I can tell you that boutiques such as Evercore, Greenhill have a poor dealflow in Europe, nothing comparable at all to their US offices.
Perella London has a good dealflow with Germany and was present on some landmark transactions in France (Unibail-Rodamco) but is otherwise quite absent.
Moelis is non existent except for some restructuring assignments.
Rothschild is doing OK and Lazard too, but their French branches are much stronger.

Dec 23, 2013
magnum:
HBen:

Hi Coast1, thanks for the thread, it really helps to learn from someone who's been through the process. I was wondering about your opinion about boutiques in London (e.g.Moelis). I've heard you can get a really good training there, and since they're growing very aggressively, there is a lot of opportunity to be more visible and contribute more, as opposed to bigger teams in BB. What's your opinion on those, and would you recommend choosing a boutique vs. a BB?

Total nonsense in my opinion. As an analyst in Europe I can tell you that boutiques such as Evercore, Greenhill have a poor dealflow in Europe, nothing comparable at all to their US offices.

Perella London has a good dealflow with Germany and was present on some landmark transactions in France (Unibail-Rodamco) but is otherwise quite absent.

Moelis is non existent except for some restructuring assignments.

Rothschild is doing OK and Lazard too, but their French branches are much stronger.

Haha, Roths "doing ok", this man knows little.

Dec 9, 2013

Are you sure? Moelis just did Publicis-Omnicom $35bn merger, alongside Rothschild who advised Publicis. Other than that, I've seen other big deals advised by boutique banks (I did some research using Zephyr M&A deal database).

Dec 11, 2013
HBen:

Are you sure? Moelis just did Publicis-Omnicom $35bn merger, alongside Rothschild who advised Publicis. Other than that, I've seen other big deals advised by boutique banks (I did some research using Zephyr M&A deal database).

You are talking about Moelis NY and Rothschild Paris. Both are extremely strong, along with Lazard Paris.

Your original question was about boutiques in London.

Dec 15, 2013

What version of Excel did you use at your BB?

Dec 23, 2013

Sorry guys, belated catch up on these!

@questmark
You should absolutely sign to do both internships, then assess your situation as it arises. Clearly I know people who have reneged on a fulltime offer to sign a different one (yes, it happens), but your situation is fairly unique timing-wise and in any case it's not my place to offer an opinion on this.

@HBen
sounds like @magnum has more first-hand knowledge than I do. All else being equal, I think you are better off at a BB as you work on a wider variety of deals, have a more consistent learning experience, and learn about financing products. Obviously depends what your endgame is.

@simon-kemp
Excel 2007

Dec 23, 2013

Hello Coast1,

Thank you for doing this. Since you're based in London, which Nomura group do you think has the best dealflow at the moment and/or which group would you choose if you were to start there?

Dec 23, 2013

@Sprezz
I don't know anything about Nomura - I am sure you can find some league tables on Bloomberg or similar, or maybe someone else on the site has these

Dec 23, 2013

Since you said you went to a target university could you give us the names of target european business schools , non UK ones where BB's recruit for analyst positions in London

Dec 24, 2013
RohanShinde:

Since you said you went to a target university could you give us the names of target european business schools , non UK ones where BB's recruit for analyst positions in London

Bocconi, SSE, IESE, HEC, Essec

Dec 24, 2013

Any idea about Rotterdam School of Management and IE ? Im targetting Msc Finance programmes in the near future

Dec 26, 2013

Hey @Coast1,

I did a BB IBD internship this summer. I was initially interested in positioning myself best for the buyside by joining an industry group but was somehow placed in ECM. Though I was initially skeptical, I built a very good brand and solid relationships and was ranked the top SA in the group. I enjoyed the internship and decided to join the group full time, as I know my team will go to bat for me.

I am aware that it will be harder to break into PE, but am not necessarily sure if I want to go down this path now. In any case, where did the ECM analysts you know end up after 3 years? If I decide I want to do PE and lateral into a coverage group after 1/2 years (I've been told its possible), will I have a good shot at a PE exit?

Cheers

Dec 26, 2013

@RohanShinde
IE is good. I don't know Rotterdam

@m-p
I don't honestly think ECM gives you a good shot at a top buysode fund. You won't learn classic corporate valuation techniques etc. Although ECM is classed as IBD, there is fundamentally very little overlap between capital markets work and sector / M&A work.
Capital markets is genuinely an 'investment banking product' and will not give you a good grounding in how to evaluate an investment.
As I was in London, I would not say ECM analysts 'ended up anywhere after 3 years.' They mostly stayed at the firm. Those that did leave certainly did not go to PE or HF.
Strongly advise against ECM/DCM if you have buyside ambitions at top funds, or even business school ambitions (to a lesser extent.) Lev Fin would just about be ok though. (To be clear I'm talking about hedge funds and straight PE here. Lev fin is great for credit funds, ECM probably good for Asset Management)

Lateralling: you can do it, sure. I think you're wasting a year up front though, if you already know you'll want to lateral.

Jan 14, 2014
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Jan 28, 2014