Best groups at Morgan Stanley?

WallStBanker1's picture
Rank: Monkey | banana points 35

It would be helpful if someone has a list of ALL the groups one can place into, but which are top groups ?

Comments (23)

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Sep 3, 2017

Not sure what criteria you'd use for best, but here is my impression of the most sought-after groups by incoming summers:

  1. M&A
  2. Mediacomm
  3. Sponsors/GPUG/Transpo
  4. C&R/Industrials
  5. Healthcare/Tech (East Coast)
  6. FIG/Services/Natres/RE (if interested in more traditional banking exp.)
Sep 4, 2017

Are the summer interns selected for the groups based mainly off networking, or do they look for past experience in said industry?

And do you know which groups have their own in house M&A teams ?

Sep 4, 2017

how did you get into MS without knowing all this? Should've had this shit answered during your networking calls

Sep 4, 2017

Have not gotten into MS. Just trying to learn more about the firm since earlier posts are outdated.

Sep 4, 2017

Also what do you mean by more traditional banking experience in the last groups?

Sep 4, 2017

Sorry, meant RE will be a bad placement outcome for those who want a traditional experience. But MS has a great RE group, so if you want to do REPE I think it's a good spot.

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Sep 4, 2017

Not horrible. 7th in league tables for 2011 I believe. They have been improving it should be noted.

The guys in London are pretty cool if that is where you are looking...

Sep 4, 2017

They have not had the strongest performances in FX and Rates as of late.

Jack: They're all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

Sep 4, 2017
Sep 4, 2017

Check out DB or UBS as tops.

Something insane, like 18% of all money going through the FX market everyday goes through DB.

RBS also has a good FX business (~5th)

Sep 4, 2017
Sep 4, 2017

ok time for a reality check here.

FX is not M&A, "league tables" don't mean anything.
Volume of flow is not as indicative of profitability as it might be in banking where fees are pretty fixed.
You can have the most flow in spot/forwards/options and still end up underwater because positioning in the books was... less than ideal.

So to measure how "good" an FX desk is (particularly in more complex businesses like exotics) you should look at a few things

  1. risk tolerance and ability to position the books favorably
  2. accuracy of the models used for pricing
  3. general intelligence of the traders (stems from the first 2)

Another thing... if the fx business of the firm in question has solid franchise flow, i.e. corporates who leave a lot of money on the table, the desk may be quite profitable, but thats not because its traders are superstars, its because the sales guys have clients who aren't very spread sensitive, so guess who gets paid in those situations? yes, sales will out-earn trading by lightyears if that is the case... these are things to think about.

Sep 4, 2017

Ok but how are you supposed to know which desk is good if you can't use brand name nor deal flow...

We don't have access to "trader's skill" or pnl...

Sep 4, 2017
lolgpa:

Ok but how are you supposed to know which desk is good if you can't use brand name nor deal flow...

We don't have access to "trader's skill" or pnl...

that's my point exactly... college juniors won't know.... there's no public ranking that can provide any guidance on the matter, so stop looking for it.

the only way you'll figure it out is by rotating on some of these desks, or going in and sitting with a few of them to get a sense of how the desk is structured (i.e. sales driven vs. trading driven... significant corporate flow vs. predatory hedge fund flow... risk taking vs. book flattening approach)

Sep 4, 2017
FXTrader:

that's my point exactly... college juniors won't know.... there's no public ranking that can provide any guidance on the matter, so stop looking for it.

the only way you'll figure it out is by rotating on some of these desks, or going in and sitting with a few of them to get a sense of how the desk is structured (i.e. sales driven vs. trading driven... significant corporate flow vs. predatory hedge fund flow... risk taking vs. book flattening approach)

Well then I guess I'll accept MS offer since I have no credible signal and the brand name will help for MBA / Consulting switch.
I don't really plan to stay in trading for ages, maybe 3-4 years to have fun.

Sep 4, 2017

You have a misconstrued idea of deal flow. Statistically, the vast majority of deal flow is not M&A, rather it is loans and debt. Financials are consistently near the top group in new issues and refi's.

In your definition of "deal flow" (M&A), there is plenty of activity in Fin Tech; a quick Google search could tell you that...

Sep 4, 2017

MS FIG definitely has strong deal flow. Consumer probably a bit less so but consistently improving over the past few years. Neither group is exactly known for having a good culture.

Sep 4, 2017

GS CRHG analysts mostly specialize in either HC or CR. You can definitely pref which to specialize in even during the summer internship. Supposed to have a good culture but would argue that's a dying rep. NR seems to be the best these days. FIG also has good culture in the banks vertical.

Also FYI, GS FIG doesn't do any of the loans or debt stuff - there's a separate group called FIG Financing that does that. FIG does pretty much just M&A

Sep 4, 2017

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