WSO Elite Modeling Package

  • 6 courses to mastery: Excel, Financial Statement, LBO, M&A, Valuation and DCF
  • Elite instructors from top BB investment banks and private equity megafunds
  • Includes Company DB + Video Library Access (1 year)

Comments (230)

Jun 18, 2021 - 1:32pm

It's a little aggressive especially with the bolding but did it not seem that bad to anyone else if they didn't follow the comments and deliver what the senior wanted. Probably better communicated through a call but when comments aren't followed I'm not sure what else he's supposed to say other than being more concise about it

  • Principal in Legal
Jun 21, 2021 - 12:04pm

If you follow the markup (i.e. do your job at minimal requirements), then you won't get your career threatened.  Fairly simple.

Learn More

300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses.

Learn more
Funniest
  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jun 18, 2021 - 1:41pm

The great thing about WFH is that instead of listening to my VP shout at me in person I can simply delete his email before I even open it.

Jun 24, 2021 - 9:31am

Is nobody else shocked about the fact that email was actually typed and sent by a VP?

I get it... late as fuck and he's upset (whether valid or not) but god damn it reads like it was typed by an illiterate phone scammer calling in from India... How the fuck did this idiot get promoted to VP he can't even type a decent email...

  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jun 24, 2021 - 5:43pm

Yeah this VP has some poor fuckin communication skills -- no wonder his instructions weren't followed. Kinda hard to expect people to follow instructions when they are incomprehensible lmao. 

Jun 19, 2021 - 1:02pm

funny thing is when recruiting with them, they kept touting their culture (and their like one day off a year where they go to milwaukee)

path less traveled

  • 2
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jun 20, 2021 - 10:30am

Can you name one bank that does not advertise its culture in the recruitment process? Why would a bank ever shit on its own culture when trying to recruit talent? Whenever I see a post like this, I always see a response like this, and I just don't understand it.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Jun 18, 2021 - 1:51pm

Yes its aggressive and maybe a little over the top, but this email is a whole lotta nothing. What, you want him to send kissing emojis and flowers with it next time? 

Jun 18, 2021 - 2:40pm

Dude, yes. Just a huge body of words. This is one of those people that says a whole lot yet says nothing.

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Jun 18, 2021 - 1:53pm

Yeah, email doesn't seem that bad at all. He apologized numerous times and wasn't really abusive and didn't get personal at all. He was frustrated, and doesn't want the same mistake to happen again.  

Controversial
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Jun 18, 2021 - 9:52pm

Are you on the spectrum by-chance? No, there's nothing that excuses this, and if you ever want at least the slightest bit of change in the industry this dick VP needs to be put on full-blast. This email should be public and it's a good thing that an analyst had the damn balls for once to send this out because I can assure you this is not that uncommon, but who wants to lose their role as a new grad for standing up?

Just like Moelis a few years back and then that PJT email not too long ago these things (especially during WFH) need to continue being leaked with the names of these managers attached so these scum can't abuse another analyst in the industry.. Shame on you.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 23, 2021 - 10:49am

Yeah and you have to remember this analyst has been on the desk a year at this point ( I am pretty sure that the new analyst class has not started).  So being bad at your job at the 1 year mark is pretty bad.  

Jun 20, 2021 - 2:44pm

+1 SB. I'm one of the first folks on here to jump at seniors who terrorize their analysts, but the guy makes edits to a presentation; you for some reason do not follow those edits.  What is he supposed to do, give you a hug? I'd be annoyed as well.

There is no job on the planet where your boss tells you to do something, you don't do it, and the reaction is positive.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 21, 2021 - 2:59pm

Or I could even see an analyst that keeps changing things that the VP has already corrected and when he changes it the VP has to go back and review the entire deck checking for things the analyst changed. 

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 21, 2021 - 3:02pm

I think the threatening came after the leak which if you ask me is a fair consequence because who knows what else you are sharing from emails.   

Jun 23, 2021 - 9:53am

KingKongDong420

It's brutal in the sense that it's a MM VP power tripping to a 22 YO analyst and threatening to end his career. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, how is that not brutal jesus

It shouldn't come as a surprise that leaking emails and putting your team "on blast" may have career consequences

I suppose it's a cultural shift from WFH that people are using social media to complain about their coworkers rather than engaging in the time honored tradition of whining to the rest of the bullpen and then getting blackout drunk

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 22, 2021 - 2:06pm

+1. Can't believe I had to scroll as far down as I did to find this response. I'm a woman in the industry and thought this was quite tame. I constantly find myself bemoaning the softness of analysts (even members of my own class) but decrying this email is on a whole different level of softness, wow.

Perhaps repetitive in nature but the point(s) are valid: if I invested time in marking up this deck for you-after your skeleton was suboptimal-why would you deviate from the blueprint provided? This is multiple issues layered on top of one another:

(a) could you not look at other decks and come up with a half decent skeleton to get the team started?

(b) are you unable to follow clear guidance and effectively implement it when provided? 

(c) where did you find the confidence to ad lib from the provided guidance after delivering an insufficient skeleton?

(d) is your self- and situational awareness so faulty that you did not think through a-c before leaking internal documents? 

(e) is your judgement so poor that you believed the tone and content of this email would result in resounding denouncement and backlash (after all the more severe crap people get away with in finance)?

The hooplah around the GS leaked deck really created bad precedent and, honestly, I find myself dumbfounded almost weekly that people can call themselves high intelligent and believe change is on the horizon.

  • Analyst 3+ in HF - EquityHedge
Jul 8, 2021 - 5:53pm

Bingo.

I'm considering making this email should be a screener question for interviews.

Do not want some junior analyst to do sloppy work, get the numbers wrong, lose $, then be upset you spoke to them harshly. 

  • Associate 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 18, 2021 - 3:04pm

Despite the brutal hours, most of the bankers in this group are actually great to work with.  I say most because there are a few that are either batshit insane or gigantic assholes, including the VP that wrote that email.  A lot of people defending him in this thread, but this is not out of the ordinary for him.  I have no idea how he is still on the platform given the firm's supposed "No Asshole" policy. 

Baird has had to scramble to staff back up recently after laying off way too many juniors during covid and then dealing with a high attrition rate from overworking the ones they had left.  In all likelihood, the junior bankers he reamed out were on the job less than 6 months and still had no idea what they were doing. This should not be normal in this industry.

Jun 18, 2021 - 3:34pm

Who the f uses caps like this? What a douche..

Laborare Pugnare Parati Sumus

  • 2
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Jun 18, 2021 - 5:11pm

People making excuses for his behavior… disgusting. Good reason to not join Baird. You can call out mistakes, but can take the extra effort to be kind. There's a reason for their high attrition rates. If group culture is good, there is far less attrition even with horrible hours… when will bankers learn that attrition and turnover is almost AKWAYS linked to shit culture.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 18, 2021 - 5:13pm

I mean if your VP asks you for 2 new pages and you give him a single one you clearly ripped off the shelf, you a bottom bucket boi. Sorry not sorry.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 21, 2021 - 3:04pm

If you can barely turn comments at the  end of a year you are bottom bucket.  and it sounds like this is what happened. 

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:15pm

Lmao, 'everything I tell you to do is calculated'. buddy you're at Baird, you can barely multiple three times three

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:15pm

Lmao, 'everything I tell you to do is calculated' - buddy you're at Baird, you can barely multiple three times three

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:55pm

VPs are also junior team

The whole thing is cringe, screams insecurity and incompetence from all angles by all involved

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:55pm

VPs are also junior team

The whole thing is cringe, screams insecurity and incompetence from all angles by all involved

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
Jun 18, 2021 - 6:55pm

VPs are also junior team

The whole thing is cringe, screams insecurity and incompetence from all angles by all involved

Jun 18, 2021 - 6:29pm

I don't see anything wrong here. The analysts made a huge mistake and as a result got a strongly worded email from a superior.

Array

  • 6
  • 3
Jun 18, 2021 - 7:24pm

You're not supposed to be leaking confidential emails from the company. Doesn't help that this email pertains to a deal that has non public info associated with it. 

Array

Jun 18, 2021 - 6:52pm

2 things:

1. Poor taste from analyst in leaking it. Pretty easy to figure out who it is. If VP doesnt' come down hard, Baird will. This stuff should stay in house and that's not just a banking thing, but a corporate thing in general....

2. Shitty leadership from VP. Classic example of the ana --> assoc --> vp promote structure being based not on leadership but on individual work generating abilities

  • Associate 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 18, 2021 - 8:11pm

I doubt it was the analyst that leaked it. Emails from this same exact VP have been shared amongst the bullpen in the past just because of how over the top they were.  Someone else in the bullpen probably shared this with the finmeme account.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 18, 2021 - 8:38pm

Why get so worked up while working at a no name chit bank.

Maybe you could have put that much intensity into joining a real platform during recruiting.

Id be chill as hell if I worked at Baird.  The damn HQ is in Milwaukee.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 21, 2021 - 3:21pm

Yeah, tell that to the people who are using Baird to build a career.  You can shit all you want, but they still offer great jobs.  

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 18, 2021 - 9:48pm

its extremely tone deaf and unnecessary.

"Pay attention and do what is asked"  (I am a total god..there are NO EXCEPTIONS)

"I do not have time to burn" (get off your cross mr VP, the analysts likely have less time to burn as well to deal with your likely hard to decipher markup)

"In my 6 years on this platform this hasnt happened"  (no one has EVER misunderstood a markup? Really?.....you must be a super BANKER for working all of SIX YEARS, what a total legend you are)

"Do not stray from the markup ever"  (Just don't think analysts ever, just do what you are told....I am 6 years older than you!)

How about you 1. Inspire  2. Lead  3. Motivate  those under you that you are in charge off.....vs pissing them off over EMAIL.  Perhaps you could help edit pages as well if there was confusion...maybe share screen with them?     You are NOT an MD, you are at most a couple years older.....you are just as clueless as the rest of them.

Don't understand VPs that treat analyst and associates like this.  

Jun 18, 2021 - 10:52pm

Apologies. I view life a little differently than you. I spent my first 4 years out of HS in the Army. I saw recruits get choked out by drill sergeants and another get an aluminum trash can tossed on his back (this was just the first few months in) for stuff a lot smaller than messing up a deck. So when I see an email in all caps, I know that shit could be way worse.

Jun 18, 2021 - 11:48pm

Dude get out of your ivory tower. Analysts are the bottom most rung in the industry (excluding interns). Your VP isn't your daddy or mommy to "motivate" and "inspire" you. He's your boss. 

Array

  • 3
  • 1
Jun 19, 2021 - 9:46am

Really, corporate life may not be for you if you find this email that offensive. Many companies, particularly  prestigious high-performance places, would have similar emails at times, and as noted above,  many adults have far thicker skins than some of the above posters. Clients too sometimes send emails like this. Those raised in very sheltered environments  will get used to it or leave.

Jun 19, 2021 - 11:41am

like the OP, and the leaker, you appear to be an upper middle class suburban white boy who has never had anyone speak so directly and critically to him.  The thing is, there are thousands of eager applicants from different backgrounds who are used to a less sheltered environment, and more willing to accept, or at least not complain about, the roughness that may accompany very high-paying work.

  • Associate 3 in PE - LBOs
Jun 19, 2021 - 1:11pm

A few thoughts: 

For those of you saying that "analyst needs thicker skin" or "grow up, you won't survive in the corporate world" or "get out of your snowflake bubble...."

I will definitely say you are what is wrong with this industry. Moments like these are teaching and learning lessons, where you can encourage independent and efficient thought and work while also ensuring that your guidance is being followed. People with high EQ and true leadership qualities do this - people who are insecure, egotistical, insufferable losers take the approach this VP took. 
 

for those of you saying that "this is the corporate world and high preftige places do this." I work at a high preftige place. Guess what - they don't. People here encourage being efficient where possible and treat errors as learning lessons. This is a largely because nobody here is insecure or has some propped up ego. And to clarify, this VP is in no means in a "high prestige" role or firm. 
 

I understand the VP is stressed and managing a lot of deals., but zoom out a bit - it's just a fucking m&a deal (at best), and if this is causing someone to write emails like this, I don't think they can handle this job. Cool under pressure is what people respect. 

  • Associate 3 in PE - LBOs
Jun 20, 2021 - 3:26pm

1. If you have an analyst that can't do the job on the 9th try, the firm is horrendous at recruiting 

2. If I was the VP, I would put more pressure on the associate to take lead on comments. If there is no associate, I would explain the situation and ask for one. If I can't be given one, I would ask for a different analyst. If none of these are possible, I'd just do it myself - it's just a slide and if the VP is any good, it should take them just a few minutes. 
 

3. Even if this was the 9th try, what good does yelling like this do? Clearly if it's the 9th try it's not due to lack of effort - the kid probably just has not clue what he's doing and sending an email like this helps nobody develop. I have had numerous instances where VPs have sat down at my desk or theirs, spun through the analysis quickly live, and then had me re do it for practice. I learned that way. 
 

I honestly can't think of a single possible pathway that would lead to this email being the right decision. It doesn't even come off angry or authoritative - it just comes off whiny, Lazy , and salty 

Jun 23, 2021 - 12:24pm

This was absolutely spot-on and probably the best reply I read on this entire thread. I'm a VP in banking and I get the frustration, but there are just better ways to go about delivering feedback and coaching up junior bankers. Nobody benefits from a reaction like this.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jun 19, 2021 - 1:16pm

scary reading this. interned at two firms, but luckily I've never seen any of this behaviour. I'm an intern, yes. But how can anyone justify this behavior? it's not even constructive - it's just pure rage?

How would this instill the camaraderie that I naturally feel for a team member that offers constructive criticism? I will always learn from it and probably never make the mistake again.

Jun 20, 2021 - 8:46am

Man this email is a good example of passive aggressive shit. You don't have to go around demanding/asking why something was not done. Even if you make it sound "polite".

Literally, if the receiver is an analyst, they don't have much experience and need to be guided continuously. VP here should try to understand why his instructions were not followed: 1) was he clear enough?, 2) did his message get stuck somewhere?, 3) is the analyst struggling or confused with something?… like if you don't want to disappoint yourself, then make sure that whomever you are delegating work to understands what you want (and in the case of junior analysts, you have to grab them by the hand like a baby sometimes…)

fuck I hate when my VP comes with his passive aggressive shit (like pages long email for a simple mistake)… "we should always strive to be as perfect as we can to he client"… wtf of course I know that, if there's a mistake is more related to the fact that we are stretched thin and something has to give up! My strategy is that when the dude comes with his passive aggressiveness shit by email, I just pick up the phone call him and say "what's up? Want to discuss that feedback?"… haha this immediately disarms the dude… Only an "alpha" male by email, ah???

"Drill, Baby, Drill" - Sarah Palin

  • 8
  • 1
Jun 20, 2021 - 3:27pm

Helping little children  is wonderfully rewarding, and why some people go into elementary  education as a career. Alas that skill set doesn't overlap much with IB, and twenty-something analysts with six figure salaries are not as cute as six year olds.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 20, 2021 - 5:10pm

Just because analysts are paid well and not elementary school kids doesn not mean they deserve to be treated this way and have it be acceptable.

In tech an email like this would get someone fired very quickly (or at least lose a lot of credibility in the firm).  You cannot treat software engineers this way because they will just laugh at you and quit (and join a real competitor overnight).

The fact that people think this flies show me how pathetic and second rate IB is.  Any actual place with elite/smart people that have options would not accept this.

Jun 20, 2021 - 4:23pm

the simple truth is that there are better ways to convey the same message to make sure this never ever happens again.

No, it's not absolutely off the charts and such an email shouldn't bring someone to tears, depression or force them to quit their job. it is strongly worded but it's not THAT bad (hence the whole thread has mixed feedback).

I don't understand why someone snitched. Make a note that this VP is an asshole, identify the good feedback, and carry on. Why would you risk your career over leaking it to your buddies? To show off how "tough" you are to be in this environment? It's just sad.

  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jun 20, 2021 - 6:51pm

If you're worried about how you would be perceived if your email would be "snitched" then there is something wrong with it, to begin with. Maybe you shouldn't act in a way where you're worried about how you would look if exposed in the first place Lol

  • Intern in IB - Ind
Jun 20, 2021 - 6:50pm

Continue to expose people so that they start behaving in a way where there is nothing to expose. Fuck this VP and anyone who appreciates this sort of behavior. You're working on some stupid meaningless pitch breh just treat ur people better dipshit

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jun 20, 2021 - 7:48pm

I don't think anyone's saying that the analyst deserves to be petted on the head despite their mistake, but this VP's email reeks of pure insecurity. Anyone who sees nothing wrong with the way this email is written also has a small dick and is secretly looking forward to getting their own nerdy revenge the minute they can flex any authority in any job. Get a grip, dorks. It's overbaked. A simple "Can you double-check the markup and then make sure this is what we discussed? This doesn't look accurate. Please redo it and send back with the scanned markup." works fine. Like the poster above said, if mistakes continue, the VP needs to either get the associate to step up (or get one staffed) or roll their own sleeves up while getting the project restaffed. If you can't take the time to try and truly mentor the analyst, then leave them in the water. Reaming them like this is lame and not far off from smacking a puppy for peeing on the rug.

Banks can save money on their retention bonuses if they stomp shit behavior out like this VP's. It's things like this that drive people mad, not the hours alone or being paid $10,000 less than their friends at the next bank over. Especially in Baird's case where they force-feed you KoolAid about their no-asshole policy only to regularly violate it.

  • Analyst 2 in IB - Ind
Jun 20, 2021 - 8:37pm

This VP is an absolute squid for this. He was clearly teeming with anger when he wrote this (lack of leadership, self-control?). Address it personally and don't be a douche, analysts will respect you more.

Jun 21, 2021 - 12:03am

Both parties need to own this situation... highly doubtful that this is the analyst's first time not following directions on this particular ask - he/she should realize that what he/she has been doing is missing the mark and adjust their work accordingly. If analyst is still unsure, they should ask. VP should own the leadership/mentorship aspect (or lack thereof) of the relationship and look to see how they could improve the situation - clearer comments, more context, set up call to ensure analyst understands the ask, acknowledge that analyst isn't a slave and is on the same team as VP. 

Both parties are probably wrong here. Analyst most likely not following directions repeatedly and VP being an absolute dick treating subordinates like this. Boom, whole situation resolved. 

  • Works at Robert W. Baird & Co.
Jun 21, 2021 - 12:22pm

Current Baird associate here. The sentiment above is sweet, thanks intern, haha. 

I'll be honest, it's probably closer to the truth than more recent posts. The "no asshole" policy at Baird is a goal not a fact, and I think its why the assholes who slip by stand out. It's still better here than at a lot of banks that seem to have an "only assholes" policy.

I've got the benefit of experience at a few companies. From my perspective, Baird is great. It's why we get so many people who come back after trying a year or two at another bank or the buyside. Once people see what its like somewhere else, they come back.

Check the above message. It's unprofessional and unwelcome, but its also not out of place at a lot of banks. It stands out because of how irregular it is to how things are usually done at Baird. 

Jun 21, 2021 - 11:16pm

This isn't that bad in terms of how abusive it can get, but whoever wrote it is a total clown and mega douche. Like think more highly of yourself jesus christ. A simple "this is not the page I meant to include, please double check against my markup next time before circulating new drafts" would've been totally fine and gotten the same message across.

Jun 22, 2021 - 1:36am

Agree, there is a simple, shorter, gentler and frankly more efficient way to convey the message. 

To be honest, some individuals in this industry still need to work on how they interact. Even when facing frustration from the perceived inability of his colleague to churn the changes.

On the other hand, this bear no comparison to how treatment/communication was (more common) in the past. So in a sense it is an improvement in relative terms to the past, but further improvement is still necessary. I suppose that the discussion in this forum comes from each individual's perspective on what a "brutal" email/feedback can look/sound like. 

Jun 22, 2021 - 2:10am

Obviously this is without context, and the senior banker should try communicating sentiments more constructively.

But this is investment banking… as an analyst you are making incredible amount of money with almost no real skill set. Take accountability for the mistake, if you don't understand the task… then clarify.

If you messed up the shell already, then it implies you are sleepwalking and doing things without understanding. Put in extra effort to understand the messaging to the client and mistakes like this can be avoided (especially since the page looks like a rinse and repeat).

We are getting soft lol.

  • 1
  • 3
  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jun 22, 2021 - 4:43am

Mr. Calculated got booted from "the platform" but I would like to say this:

Boot lickers, enjoy getting bullied your whole career.

College guys, this is not normal behavior and if it is pls complain or lateral. Faux BB guys feel free to roast b/c it won't get rid of your lisp or get you laid.

Pre-MBA we move logos around and do math to support our MD's coffee thoughts.

Don't waste brain bytes worrying over Goldman Saxaphone b/c you nerds on this forum wouldn't make MF anyways

  • VP in PE - LBOs
Jun 22, 2021 - 5:04am

It's funny. All the prospects (and one analyst who was comparing IBD to the army) acting gung-ho like this is completely normal and okay behavior. Everyone else who has actually worked in IBD saying how shitty this VP's behavior is. I wonder who's right?!?

Jun 22, 2021 - 11:01am

I work in IB, and I assure you this is soft. Nothing of consequence was said and seems like it stems partially from the Analyst's mistake and the VP being over the top frustrated via email (sure can be handled better, but still not THAT bad).

TLDR, a lot of cupcakes here overreacting.

  • 1
  • 5
  • VP in PE - LBOs
Jun 22, 2021 - 7:06pm

You saw the leaked texts saying how the kid this VP is talking to is the nicest and best analyst in the group and the VP is known to have issues with everyone else too, right? Or are you just trying to model the best case scenario for your poor VP, who got fired btw. Never gonna work at any reputable shop again.

  • Associate 1 in IB - Ind
Jun 22, 2021 - 11:34am

Considering the VP got fired I think it is pretty clear who is right.

Start Discussion

Total Avg Compensation

August 2021 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (10) $853
  • Vice President (36) $363
  • Associates (210) $232
  • 2nd Year Analyst (121) $152
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (28) $146
  • Intern/Summer Associate (102) $144
  • 1st Year Analyst (450) $132
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (358) $82