Cold Emailing/LinkedIn Messaging

I'm a non-diversity sophomore at a target school, and I want to cold email/LinkedIn message some regional IB boutiques for a summer internship. At this point, is it okay to directly enquire about internship opportunities? Or should I try to establish a relationship with them first by setting up informational phone calls? I've heard both sides from different people, and was hoping to settle on one strategy. And if I should go the informational phone call route first, do you have any advice on naturally guiding that conversation towards bringing up internship opportunities?

Comments (139)

Jan 25, 2018

Hey man - good q. I had questions about this a lot also. You will get a lot of different viewpoints on this. So some boutiques have programs whereas others do not but you can still get do internships there (if it is very small boutique you prob won't do much tbh-you would honestly be better off studying for technicals and your junior year IB interview lol)-but that is just my take, if you want to put something on your resume yes try to.

I think best is to do this through informational interviews-know your story, why your interested in finance/IB, past experiences etc... Then just make it a convo, ask about their background, experiences, advice- I think you will tell by how the convo goes if you want to bring up internship opportunities or not.

You could even be straight in the email, saying i'm looking for opportunities to get experience in IB and would love to chat to hear about your experience etc...

Good luck.

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Jan 25, 2018

Thanks so much for your advice. Would you mind critiquing my template? Mainly, I'm not sure if I should include my phone number, or if I should wait until I hear a positive response, or wait until they give me their phone number, etc. Anyway, here goes:

Dear [First Name],

My name is [xxx] and I am currently a [year] at [school] studying [Major]. I am interested in learning more about investment banking and would love to speak to you about your experience in the industry. Do you have time for a quick call? My phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx, and I am available during [dates, times]. Thank you.

Sincerely,

[My name]

Jan 25, 2018

In my opinion, I would go the informational interview route. It's easier to try get them to push you into an internship if you have some sort of rapport with them.

When going through these informational interviews, there will come a point when they'll tell you that you need to know x, y, and z to be successful. It'll usually be things like knowing statements, modeling, and industry knowledge. At that point, go on a tear about what you do know. Don't let the conversation become one sided where they are just giving you advice.

Last tip, if there doesn't appear to be any internship openings, don't be afraid to ask if there is anything small that you can help out with, on an unpaid basis. Any sort of experience you can get is gold.

Last tip... for reals. You have an opportunity to establish a long-term, multi year relationship with local firms... they all have connections to other banks. You'll learn that banking is smaller than it seems. If you don't want to eventually work at the local firm level, they can always help you contact the firms you do want to work at later on down the road.

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Jan 25, 2018

I have had above average success with this method (>35% response rate on completely cold messages):

  1. Try to personalize each and every message, with literally anything you can relate to on LinkedIn (Ive used sports, philanthropy, etc.)
  2. Always be extremely polite and triple check each message to make sure there are no grammatical errors
  3. Ask for advice, not for them to pass along your resume (they know why you're calling, asking for them to push your resume makes you look inexperienced when it comes to networking)
  4. I focus on their experience unless they remember that I asked for advice and specifically bring it up through our call (what do you like most about your coverage group, why did you choose bank XYZ, etc.)
  5. I ask to speak with them over the course of the next 3-4 weeks (they are busy, and this allows them to respond and say so, often asking for me to follow up in a couple weeks)
  6. I keep it professional and have a 2 sentence summary about my past experience (even if your work isn't IBD, PE, etc., there are ways to draw parallels in most situations)
  7. Use their email thats listed on LinkedIn instead of messaging them. While I have had decent success personally with messaging them, everyone is indifferent to cold emails, and a fair amount of people think direct messaging via LinkedIn is bizarre.

Good luck

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018

Agreed on using the latter

Jan 25, 2018

Is it better to email or send a message on linkedin?

Jan 25, 2018

I think that emailing is going to have a better response rate

Jan 25, 2018

Definitely the latter, good luck.

Jan 25, 2018

Cold email advice*, remember to triple check your emails.

Also agree on the latter.

Jan 25, 2018

There are plenty of cold email templates floating around this forum so with that said look at them and see what fits your style. Also, you should try LinkedIn and reach out directly asking for an informational interview (that's the way I landed my current position). Good luck!

Array

Jan 25, 2018

I wrote a guide on this a while back, see below linked
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/guide-cold-c...
To summarize, the goal of your cold emailing should be to book an informal meeting/call. Keep emails relevant and most importantly short- no longer than 3-4 lines and readable on a phone.

Stay away from bullshit works such as "hardworking/goal oriented" etc and try to customize every email as much as possible- include recent deal news with the firm etc.

Hope that helps.

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Jan 25, 2018

make it slightly more tailored. What about their profile/company did you find interesting? How does this align with your goal. I know its annoying but imagine getting the same old messages.

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Jan 25, 2018

I will try to do that, I've been including an extra sentence that's super tailored for them (ex: I saw that you started in a research role similar to mine, etc.).

I've been careful not to make the email too long, some other posts say to keep length down. Do you think I'd be fine adding a few sentences?

Jan 25, 2018

Ditch the my name is--it's in your signature. Tell him when you are graduating from your school.

Tell him you were on LinkedIn learning more about companies that are most interesting to you, and came across his profile. Then insert a sentence about what his company is actually interesting to you--make it unique, not generic.

Then say you understand the request might seem odd, but that you'd be grateful for a few minutes of his time, whether it be for an email with some questions about his firm or a brief call if more convenient for him.

You want to go to email and away from LinkedIn ASAP. Then go for a phone call.

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Jan 25, 2018

These are direct emails already, trying to close for a phone call. Thanks, you think I'd be safe fleshing out the emails a few sentences? I'm worried about making them too long and fluffy.

Jan 25, 2018

For comparison, here is mine. I get about 33% response rate on the initial email, and it probably bumps up to 50% or so after the first follow up a week later.

:

I hope that this email finds you well. My name is xxxxxx and I am a Master's Candidate in the Real Estate Development Program at xxxxxx. If you have any availability in the coming weeks, I would love to have the chance to get on the phone with you for 10-15 minutes to learn more about you, your firm, and your experience with the industry. I have attached my resume to give you an idea of my background, and look forward to hearing from you.

I don't tailor mine at all and I get an excellent response rate. My strategy of short & sweet seems to be working well. I usually have to limit myself to 5 initial emails and 5 follow ups a day. I've found that on some days (usually Fridays) I'll get way more responses than normal and then I'm having to sit by the computer all day long crafting responses and trying to figure out my calendar. My suggestion is to send them around 8:00am as most people read/respond to emails first thing when they get to the office. I've found that I have a much worse response rate for emails that go out mid-morning/after lunch. Also, I know that attaching the resume is a controversial topic, but honestly people can read between the lines and probably have a pretty good idea of why you are contacting them.

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Jan 25, 2018

Very nice, I like your template. I started using my template today and have 2/7 replies so far (sent out in the afternoon, so maybe more to come tomorrow?).

Will definitely try morning emails as well as sending more on Friday.

I think I'll begin to attach my resume, I am going for the job, and sure it MIGHT lead to a lower response rate, however, the quality of responses in terms of chance of internships will increase since they'll know that I'm going for the job.

Jan 25, 2018

Do you guys think any hyperkink or link in the email increases the chance of your email getting caught in the spam folder?

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Jan 25, 2018

I was thinking this earlier. But then I came to the conclusion that if the hyperlink gets stuck in the spam folder, wouldn't the receiver be risking not receiving like 30% of his emails? What if a broker is sending you property info but then it gets caught in the spam folder because of his hyperlink?

Just an opinion with no backing though. Welcome to other thoughts on this

Jan 25, 2018

The template above seems pretty solid, however I was always weary of attaching my resume right off the bat. Typically I waited for the person to ask for my resume before I sent it, but that is just me.

Below is what I used and it worked extremely well in undergrad as far as response rates go.

Hi [NAME],

As a fellow [school mascot] looking to get into the real estate industry, I was wondering if you had some time to shed some light on your experience(s) at [COMPANY].

I understand that this is a busy time for you, but I was hoping I could have 15 minutes of your time over the phone within the next week to learn about your experiences and expertise. I am more than happy to accommodate whatever time works best for your schedule.

Looking forward to hearing back from you.

Warm regards,
[name]
[number]
[linkedin hyperlink]

If you aren't reaching out to an alum (which I definitely recommend), I would change "as a fellow (school mascot)" to "as an undergrad".

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Jan 25, 2018

I like yours too.

What did the interaction look like after? Cold Email > Informational Interview over Phone > Email for internship?

Jan 25, 2018

Yeah, in a way.

We would usually hop on the phone and talk about what they do/how they got there, then transition into what I want to. I would always make sure tell them I'm on the "internship search" or "search for full time when I graduate" so that they were aware of my situation. Saying this was a nice way of prompting them to talk about the opportunities at their firm. If it didn't prompt them to talk about it, I would then ask them in the call what their opportunities look like.

The biggest thing that helped me out wasn't being too pushy with asking for opportunities at their firm, but asking who else they recommend I speak to. You'd be surprised how fast your network grows and who you meet when you do this a few times.

A few times, when it felt right, I would ask them if they wanted to grab coffee as well.

Hope this helps.

Jan 25, 2018

Thanks for the reply, I've gotten a few calls set up already in a few days. I'll use some of your topics and try to research what else to ask for. First time really calling for an informational interview.

I appreciate your help ODC

Jan 25, 2018

No sweat.

Just keep it up, you seem like you're on the right track. And don't worry if the first one doesn't go so well, you'll get better at asking questions and more comfortable as you talk with more people.

Hope all goes well.

Jan 25, 2018

<3 <3 <3

Jan 25, 2018

I think you have a good starting point and you are definitely right to try and keep it as short and condensed as possible.

I agree with previous posters about ditching the "my name is xxx" part. However, I would recommend not including your resume right off the bat for a cold email. I was told by several senior level guys that it's a little too much too soon for a cold introduction and if they open it up before responding and see something they don't like, chances are they won't reply at all. It's better to just wait until they ask for it. If you really want to get your resume out there, you could attach it in follow up emails with the people that have already taken the time to talk with you and shown some interest. I think the LinkedIn hyperlink in the signature is a more subtle way to add background information. Just make sure your profile is as sharp as possible.

I've never had the time to keep track of response rates, however I did send close to 1,000 emails during my networking phase before breaking into IB. My standard email template was as follows:

"Hello xxx,

I am a current student at xxx studying xxx, who is interested in a career in xxx. I'm reaching out to see if you'd be willing to set up a time for us to connect for 10-15 minutes over the phone.

While recently researching the industry, I came across your profile and noticed (something tailored to their profile). I'd love the opportunity to introduce myself as well as learn more about you and (firm name and/or industry). Let me know if there is a time that works best for you over the next few days - my schedule is flexible.

Regards,

xxx"

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Jan 25, 2018

This is art

Best Response
Jan 25, 2018

Trial and error, my friend. If you plan on really pumping out a lot of emails and speaking with 50+ people in the industry, I recommend creating an excel spreadsheet that keeps names, contact info, schools, specific industries/teams/focus, etc. You'll also want to keep track of who introduced you to who when you start asking for referrals to other people you should talk to.

It is a numbers game. Hang in there, have a positive attitude when speaking, and always be thankful for other people's time. Best of luck!

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Jan 25, 2018

Good practice. It's really annoying when the whole office gets spammed (sometimes multiple times) from one person.

Jan 25, 2018

What would be a good subject line?

Jan 25, 2018

I rarely make time to chat on the phone with cold email-ers. I have found it to be wasting my time with a lot of awkward, confused or clueless info calls. However, if someone has a few questions they can email me I almost always will reply. Just some food for thought.

Jan 25, 2018

.

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Jan 25, 2018

The OW campus recruiters are going to be pretty prioritized with their target school candidates and likely will ignore your email. You're better off reaching out to people who work at OW (find something in common if possible: Rutgers alumni, same major, same city/state) for an informational interview.

When sending any cold email regardless, you should keep it pretty short. There are a lot of guides on this site but in general, keep it to 2-3 paragraphs with 2-3 sentences each, max. Give a quick intro of who you are, move on to why you want to speak with that specific person, and then you can offer a few different times over the next 2 weeks that you can speak. You definitely don't have to be that formal either.

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Jan 25, 2018

Got it. The recruiter I emailed actually is a Rutgers alum. Thanks for the advice!

Jan 25, 2018

I don't think it's a bad starting point. (I'm not an expert, basically regurgitating advice I got from somebody I trust, because my first cold email drafts looked exactly like this)

Avoid referencing the firm's prestige directly. If you want to stroke egos, the other things you mentioned about the company should suffice.

You need to tell a little more about yourself. Just 2 or 3 things to catch the eye, and emphasize how you can contribute. What makes up your strong quantitative background? Can you write code, run a regression, or can you write formal proofs? Do you have high standardized test scores? Did you draw up models in excel for a class? Anything specific - brands, names, scores, etc. - is a good thing.

Additional note: 'lack of hierarchical structure' sounds like you're calling out management, even though I know what you're saying. Change it to a positive instead of a 'lack' - something like how they entrust additional responsibilities to the analysts is going to be better.

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Jan 25, 2018

Understood - thanks for the response.

Jan 25, 2018

Will it sound juvenile if I list my standardized test scores? I got a 2300 SAT (1580/1600 CR + Math) and a 35 ACT, so I would be more than happy to share that, lmao. How can I phrase it appropriately?

Jan 25, 2018

Leave your test scores for your resume. You would only mention an accomplishment like @squiggley said to explain how it makes you a competitive candidate (in the sense of an actual skill or experience that's relevant to the position) or how it sparked an interest in the work that OW does (emphasis on the latter IMO for these cold emails).

Jan 25, 2018

way too long, I would never read all of that from some kid cold emailing me during a work day.

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Jan 25, 2018

Look on LinkedIn

Jan 25, 2018

Worry about asking for internships in 2013. While I got my internship through cold calling this past summer, I would encourage you (at this stage in the game) to focus on building relationships. It's infinitely easier to establish genuine relationships with people you are introduced to. The only cold emails that I have sent out that have been effective as far as building a network were people that had some relation to me (college alumnus, highschool alumnus, etc.).

Try to find some mentors and take it from there.

Jan 25, 2018

just cold email a regional boutique. I did it, it works. Just have a solid resume, and much better if you can email someone who was an alum. If you see no alum, apply through the career email or hr email. it works if theyre looking and again, if your experiences are solid.

Think outside the box please, if you see an alum in the office you want to apply to than just use the email format and email him directly. its not rocket science.

Jan 25, 2018

No cover letter. And not 100% sold on the resume either to be honest (doubt there is anything there which is compelling - no offense). I'd say at this stage, your best bet is to ask for a coffee. Your best asset is your enthusiasm and interest. There is very low probability that someone considers a freshman. Plus at smaller shops, fit is huge - one person can dramatically change culture, so they will want to meet you before even considering letting you into their office.

Nothing personal, but hiring a freshman (or anyone new to be honest) reduces capacity rather than increasing it. Harder to teach you than do it ourselves. The only way this story works is if they are looking at you long term and feel like investing in you will be worthwhile. This is why people typically look for FT analysts closer to graduation (rising senior internships).

However, showing someone you are interested this early in the game can be very compelling. Don't let the above comments dissuade you from trying.

Jan 25, 2018

post the email. to some extent SHOW UP at the offices for some more information, second time around ask for an interview... this is a wild card, but you never know these days... some of the people in this industry are very traditional.

.

Jan 25, 2018

bump* I'm also curious to any responses.

Jan 25, 2018

If you are in a time crunch, I think it is best to just be direct. At least this is what I did with successful results. I quit my fulltime job in July and wanted an internship before my master's program started in the fall, so I didn't have any time to build relationships. I pretty much just emailed people directly asking if they could accommodate. Within 2 weeks of sending emails I had a few offers from local boutiques. I was probably somewhat lucky though...

Jan 25, 2018

M&I has articles on this... please read them

Jan 25, 2018
rufiolove:

M&I has articles on this... please read them

I have reviewed that site extensively. I just want to see what WSO thinks since I'm in a bit of a time crunch and probably don't have much time to BS around.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

Jan 25, 2018

K fuggit, I'm just going to post my potential letter. Tear it apart viciously:

"Dear So and So

My name is xxx, I am a student at non-target and have recently become interested in the investment banking and private equity industry. During this summer I interned at xxx in xxx, country. Here, I worked in a support role and created research reports about private equity firms and helped management decide whether or not its worth contacting them in the future for business based on the company's strategy, personnel, growth, etc.

This was my first exposure to the banking and private equity industries and I started to read more about DCF analysis, LBO modeling and realized that this is where my true interest lies. Although I learned a lot from the support role, I realize that I belong in a more client-facing role in these transactions, which your firm will allow me to do.

This term, I will be free to work in XXX on Thursdays and Fridays and was wondering if your firm has room for an unpaid intern with a passion for finance that will make everyone's lives easier. I know that I cannot be handed a lot of responsibility immediately, but if there is some way that I can gain exposure to what it means to be on a live deal, construct a financial model and gain practical working experience, then please contact me at XXX at your earliest convenience. If you need to discuss my qualifications further, I will be back in town from the 9th of December onward and can send you my resume if such an opportunity exists.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

-XXX"

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018

If you're in the time crunch as you have admitted, and have read M&I then you should have your answer... you should always be trying to get informational/face to face sit downs...

Jan 25, 2018
BBParty:

While I agree that an email that is spelling and grammar error free is important, shut the fuck up. You sound like an enormous douche. 'Best of Luck' to your douchebag ass.

You mad bro?

Totally agree with Grand Berry about proofreading. Don't use slang and double-check the email. Send it to a friend to make sure there are no mistakes.

Jan 25, 2018
JrMistMaker:
BBParty:

While I agree that an email that is spelling and grammar error free is important, shut the fuck up. You sound like an enormous douche. 'Best of Luck' to your douchebag ass.

You mad bro?

Totally agree with Grand Berry about proofreading. Don't use slang and double-check the email. Send it to a friend to make sure there are no mistakes.

Yes

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018

What's got you stressed? It was a genuine reminder. Half of all the requests I get aren't proofread. I went through the same mistakes when I was recruiting and just don't want someone else to get dinged because of something that small. Proofreading is a big part of the job though, bud.

Jan 25, 2018

thanks man, I will be sure to attach the resume from now on

Jan 25, 2018
zeroblued:

thanks man, I will be sure to attach the resume from now on

Don't do that shit. It's way too pushy.

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Jan 25, 2018
BBParty:
zeroblued:

thanks man, I will be sure to attach the resume from now on

Don't do that shit. It's way too pushy.

Shit. Really?

Jan 25, 2018
Grand Berry:

What's got you stressed? It was a genuine reminder. Half of all the requests I get aren't proofread. I went through the same mistakes when I was recruiting and just don't want someone else to get dinged because of something that small. Proofreading is a big part of the job though, bud.

Seriously dude you sent around emails with words spelled incorrectly and grammer mistakes?

Regardless your post sounded like a new analyst with a little time under his belt 'bestowing' wisdom. Probably was the don't give 'us' a reason to ignore your email line.

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Jan 25, 2018

Yes, I have. When I was a sophomore, that happened to me in a couple of follow-up e-mails. I'm not "bestowing" wisdom; I'm just reminding people that might be new to it all. If I was trying to give tips on being a better analyst, you can say I'm overreaching.

Anyways, you sound frustrated. I'm sure you've made your fair share of mistakes.

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018
Grand Berry:

Yes, I have. When I was a sophomore, that happened to me in a couple of follow-up e-mails. I'm not "bestowing" wisdom; I'm just reminding people that might be new to it all. If I was trying to give tips on being a better analyst, you can say I'm overreaching.

Anyways, you sound frustrated. I'm sure you've made your fair share of mistakes.

I've never made a mistake in my life.

    • 2
Jan 25, 2018
BBParty:
Grand Berry:

What's got you stressed? It was a genuine reminder. Half of all the requests I get aren't proofread. I went through the same mistakes when I was recruiting and just don't want someone else to get dinged because of something that small. Proofreading is a big part of the job though, bud.

Seriously dude you sent around emails with words spelled incorrectly and grammer mistakes?

Regardless your post sounded like a new analyst with a little time under his belt 'bestowing' wisdom. Probably was the don't give 'us' a reason to ignore your email line.

you sound like a model ib analyst - great grammer, if you know what I mean

speed boost blaze

Jan 25, 2018
torchic:
BBParty:
Grand Berry:

What's got you stressed? It was a genuine reminder. Half of all the requests I get aren't proofread. I went through the same mistakes when I was recruiting and just don't want someone else to get dinged because of something that small. Proofreading is a big part of the job though, bud.

Seriously dude you sent around emails with words spelled incorrectly and grammer mistakes?

Regardless your post sounded like a new analyst with a little time under his belt 'bestowing' wisdom. Probably was the don't give 'us' a reason to ignore your email line.

you sound like a model ib analyst - great grammer, if you know what I mean

Like I said... I never make mistakes.

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018

I don't really agree with attaching resume... It seems a little too pushy for me; you're trying to make a new friend (or at least this is how I approached networking), not a resume pusher.

Jan 25, 2018

I guess that was more geared towards those seeking internship opportunities as opposed to just networking. I keep a folder of e-mails I get regarding internships that I'll dip into if our firm is looking for interns.

For just networking, you're right.

Jan 25, 2018

This may sound like common sense, but in actuality is good advice. I've looked back on emails I sent sophomore year, and I definitely made some mistakes. As my email quality got better the response rate got higher as well.

Jan 25, 2018

attach resume or not - everyone knows you're trying to network so might as well make my life easier by giving me resume. I may be old school but I just find the social network stalking strange.

If its an alum DO NOT attach resume unless asked.

Also the other reason not to attach resume is a practical one, it may get caught in spam - that is my tip to you guys

Jan 25, 2018
Grand Berry:

Also, please attach your resume.

Yes or no? i'm confused

Jan 25, 2018

My preference is that you do if you're directly asking for internship openings. If you're asking for a casual meetup (making friends like kidflash was saying), probably not although it could give us some talking points if we were from the same school, fraternity, etc...

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Jan 25, 2018

Ah, I should add a caveat that I generally like to flesh a little background when I send my intro email since I don't attach a resume (I'm interning at XYZ bank or I'm going to be working at XYZ, etc). This mitigates any issues with 'is this kid garbage and doesn't know anything/should I waste my time talking to him.'

Jan 25, 2018

What if I just wanna get to know more about the culture of your group? Do analysts ever turn down students for casual meetups? Like what if I have absolutely nothing in common with you - would you guys ever not give students from different schools the time of day? I wouldn't wanna intrude on your target-school party.

Jan 25, 2018

I'm not from a target, so you wouldn't be intruding on any target school party. I'm pretty much "out-pedigreed" at my firm. That aside, I'd be more inclined to meet up with people that seem to have researched the firm a bit more so they're not just spamming an e-mail template. Most analysts know what those look like since we were in the same position a year or two ago.

Unfortunately, I think more networking requests may be turned down than accepted. As unfair as it sounds, sharing an alma mater definitely helps. For me, I'd be more inclined to meet up with a student from a non-target that's been trying hard to get in as opposed to a student from a target that's obviously looking for a back-up.

At the end of the day, relationships are all about finding commonalities with people and capitalizing on those points. Use LinkedIn to see if you can find any of those shared interests or activities.

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Jan 25, 2018

Fair points. If you're "out-pedigreed" at your firm, how did you break-in?

Jan 25, 2018

No secret formula here. A lot of applications and a positive attitude. Work experience that you can spin will also help a lot.

You only need one interview to show your drive.

Jan 25, 2018

the fact that you use the phrase "more inclined to"...which sounds exactly like the prose of communication I use regularly makes me want to punch you...really hard

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018

Always double check to make sure you actually attached a document if you mentioned you were attaching one...

Jan 25, 2018

If you don't attach your resume, there's a really good chance I won't reply unless I'm in a particularly good mood.

Cold-emailing is already aggressive - I know what you want, so you may well go balls in. Yea, there are some subtle rules (ie: "Give me a job" vs "I'm looking to hear more about your position") that are important, and yea, I'll probably reply if you're a friend of a friend.

Unfortunately, most people, and perhaps an even higher percentage of the really aggressive ones, really don't have a resume that is worth pushing. So sure, don't attach it if it sucks, but if it's even half-decent, it'd be nice to know that I'm helping someone who actually has a fighting chance.

Jan 25, 2018

I would definitely to hear more views on whether or not to attach a resume when first reaching out (and does it differ depending on whether we are contacting an analyst, VP, MD, etc.?)

I do think that my resume is half-decent and generally contributes positively, but in the past I've talked to alum who said that attaching it on the first email is too aggressive. Would anyone here reply to a cold-emailer whose email was free of error and non-generic, but decline to reply to the same cold-emailer if he or she attached their resume?

Jan 25, 2018

why network with an analyst anyway? I do recruiting and not to be mean or anything, I ignore most of the requests for networking FYI ... just too busy. I don't ignore alumni requests however.

Jan 25, 2018

Some firms have analysts participate in superdays and play a big role in the hiring process. Meaning if the analysts don't like you, you probably won't get an offer.

Additionally, these guys are going to be a major part of your network as you advance further into your career.

Jan 25, 2018

We have analysts at superdays and while their input is certainly used, they're easily overruled. And at deliberations, analysts arnt invited. I just get a pack of their views and not all analysts are created equal. Also, I may send an analyst in my place if I trust his judgment. Pt is - go to the top - more upside ... just saying

    • 1
Jan 25, 2018
GoVolckYourself:

We have analysts at superdays and while their input is certainly used, they're easily overruled. And at deliberations, analysts arnt invited. I just get a pack of their views and not all analysts are created equal. Also, I may send an analyst in my place if I trust his judgment. Pt is - go to the top - more upside ... just saying

Depends what your end goal is. If the end goal is just an interview, going for the analyst level might be the way to go. Obviously depends what firm you go to, but most firms have analyst flipping through the resume books for the first few cuts.

Jan 25, 2018

Makes sense. Obviously if the vp or associate doesn't like you, you won't get an offer. However, I think they would reconsider taking on a new analyst that was badly reviewed by the current ones. The role of analysts in recruiting probably varies too much between firms and individuals themselves to make a blanket statement.

Jan 25, 2018

@"Grand Berry" What a douchey move

Jan 25, 2018

You probably should have approached the conversation more tactfully if you're looking for an internship. Not grill me for my location and go on strange tangents about RBC..

Anyways, you're a vp, so I should be the one reaching out to you.

Jan 25, 2018

Please enlighten me on why you think asking about your school is untactful

Jan 25, 2018

I have a pretty different take on cold emails than the experienced guys who have posted here so I'll outline how I go about things.

General:
- I do my best to respond to every cold email I receive. ( for reference I usually get about two or three a week)
- I understand how the game works so I don't really care if it's a standard cold email format
- As long as there aren't any egregious errors I don't particularly care about grammatical problems (We're all human)
- I don't particularly care if you attach your resume or not
- I don't care where you went to school. However, I may be more flexible in scheduling a call if you go to my alma mater, etc.

Scheduling the Call:
- In my response to the cold email I will respond by saying "let me know a few days that would work for you." Respond with three or four actual dates that work well for you. I'll pick one of those days and give you a couple times to choose from. Pick one and call me at that time.

On the Call:
- The quality of your questions and/or whether you're able to turn the phone call from a game of 20 Questions to an actual conversation is going to determine whether or not I keep in touch with you or not.
- I don't particularly care either way, but I used to thank the person for taking the time to speak with me at the beginning of the call and again at the end. I always got really good feedback about taking the time to say that to the person.

Following up:
- I've had people tell me to send a hand written thank you note, others tell me just to send a short email and others tell me it doesn't matter. I personally don't care and it wouldn't bother me that a kid didn't send something, but if you choose to send a note/email make sure it is short and try to mention something specific from the conversation. Examples would be a specific company we talked about or something we had in common.
- If we talked about XYZ stock and a few weeks later you find an article, etc on the stock it doesn't hurt to send it my way. Don't expect a reply, but there's a good chance that if it's good I'll remember and it'll show that you actually have an interest in the market and you weren't just bull shitting for the purposes of the phone call.

I'm much more worried substance than style which may be significantly different from most others you would be trying to network with, I don't know. Obviously it's best to have both, but don't sacrifice quality questions and being prepared for the call/informed for the sake of having a grammatically sound email.

patternfinder:

Of course, I would just buy in scales.

See my WSO Blog | my AMA

    • 3
Jan 25, 2018

Thanks for the advice @"Simple As...". SB'd you :)

Jan 25, 2018

I laud your flexibility in making time for prospectives - I am not as altruistic. I would say this one thing, if you email me and I don't respond, probably means I am busy. I will get around to it if I want to. Sending me 20+ reminders is not cool and if you do that, I will then make sure you get dinged / blackballed - just shows bad judgment

Jan 25, 2018

If I was in banking I probably wouldn't have the time or the desire to make the time so I don't blame you. And a lot of the calls are unintentionally hilarious so I can usually count on them for a good laugh. Plus, I'm a non-target kid so I had to hustle pretty hard to get a shot and told myself when I was going through the process that I would pay it forward.

One reminder / follow up a week later and nothing more is what I always did. To preempt these things I'll usually send a quick reply that says to get back with me in a month, etc.

patternfinder:

Of course, I would just buy in scales.

See my WSO Blog | my AMA

Jan 25, 2018

Hey ballhard223, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot and I'm here since nobody responded to your thread! Bummer...could just be time of day or unlucky (or the question/topci is too vague or too specific). Maybe one of these topics will help:

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No promises, but sometimes if we mention a user, they will share their wisdom: @ianlkh1 @ValueBanker14 @the magnum

Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.

Jan 25, 2018

I'm in a similar situation, also interested.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Jan 25, 2018

Non-econ/finance/account majors get in all the time.

Network and stay determined.

  • Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.
  • The harder you work, the luckier you become.
  • I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
Jan 25, 2018

It is always worth a shot. If you want to do something why would you not do it?

"yeah, thats right" High-Five

Jan 25, 2018

It is definitely possible - and even without the relevant major, if you have a good GPA from a good school AND have the knowledge from a solid training program, you will be in good shape. Your key will be in crafting a good letter of inquiry and reaching out to the right contacts. This article will definitely help you on your path. PM me if you have additional questions.

Jan 25, 2018

keep in mind they have to teach you everything you don't know. why not hire the finance guy with the same interest, but they don't have to teach?

if you have a good gpa it signals you can learn fast so that might help. you might actually want to use those brains to study fast and keep up-to-scratch to compete with the finance and accounting majors.

ps imho if you go to Rosenbaums book, even though it's good, but without any finance/accounting knowledge, you might lose your interest very quickly and be like wtf-is-going-on very often.

if you're really interested, definitely go for it.

Jan 25, 2018

How would you go about cold-emailing?

Do you be direct, inquiring if there's any junior positions available?

Or do you have to meet with them for a cup of coffee to ask about their experiences, and then close the deal to ask for an interview?

Jan 25, 2018

Also interested in this, but based on my research, calling is far more powerful. Also based on my research, starting ASAP (aka right now) is the way to go.

Jan 25, 2018

Just my experience,

I cold emailed looking for my first ever finance-based work experience with fund managers in the Toronto area a few summers ago. I was primarily interested in equity research. I sent out 20 emails and landed one summer gig, so a 1/20 conversion rate!

I basically emailed the top guys, these were small funds (AUM 4/500 million) with the following information:

1) why I liked their particular fund.....i.e. I'm a long-only value guy I like your investment philosophy
2) my background, current university and year
3) attached CV and cover letter
4) I also attached a DCF model I built just to show that I could do something somewhat related to the job

Hope this helps and best of luck!

Jan 25, 2018

Sorry I forgot to add, in all of my emails I would always follow up with "thank you for your time, I will call to discuss further details/follow up with you." This generates a lot more responses as they know you will call so they either reply rejecting you right away or they expect your call.