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Depressing Moelis & Co. Staffer Email

GridironCEO's picture
Rank: Neanderthal | 3,326

So this email has been making the rounds all day and it was sent by an NYC Moelis Staffer to all the analysts at the office after finding out that many of them weren't in the office at 2AM. Each number listed was crossed out to maintain confidentiality.
"----
Subject: Tonight

Team,
I just walked the floor and saw the following people in their seats:
1._____
2._____
3._____
4._____
5._____
6._____
7._____
8._____
9._____
10._____
11._____

I know that you are ALL working very hard and are stretched thin across multiple projects. Given that new staffings continue to flow in and you are all very near capacity, the only way I can think of to differentiate among you is to see who is in the office in the wee hours of the morning. I know that everyone works differently and you all likely have a docking station set up at home, but I have found that when you are truly jammed with no end in sight, you should stay in the office because the connection is faster, your associates (and potentially VP's) are in close proximity, and you have access to firm resources (office services, Bloomberg, etc.).

That said, this method isn't perfect and if you have any suggestions on how I can do this more accurately, I'm all ears. On the bright side, we only have a week and a half until our class dinner! Looking forward to blowing off some steam with everyone!

Best,

MOELIS & COMPANY
399 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10022"

Thoughts or opinions from this email. I didn't exactly graduate with a 3.9 and have my choice of top IB groups, but this is certainly not a good look for employee morale or potential future classes of analysts. I guess the sweat shop rumor of the firm is also true.

And in case anyone forgot about this: "Deaths Draw Attention to Wall Street's Grueling Pace"

Mod Note (Andy): More upset analysts here... Moelis is a Sweatshop

Comments (201)

Apr 4, 2018

This is how all top investment banks work....better get used to it or choose a different industry buddy

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Apr 4, 2018

lol and how many top investment banks have you worked for?

Clearly not many..

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Apr 4, 2018
Goldmansak:

lol and how many top investment banks have you worked for?

Clearly not many..

Similar revenue per MD and revenue per head as the elite boutiques

Apr 7, 2018

Honestly having been on both sell side and now at HF (DSHAW, P72, BRIDGE). I can say we definitely look at Moelis kids with a little more respect knowing that they are able to go through HELL.

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Funniest
Apr 7, 2018

Mate you're at DE Shaw...

    • 25
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Apr 4, 2018

Why did I get MS for this????

    • 14
Apr 4, 2018

You are getting monkey shit because what you said is 100% BS.

    • 5
Best Response
Apr 4, 2018

This is the level of autistic behavior to expect. The person who wrote this email most likely was shoved to the ground a lot in school. Fucking nerd.

Apr 4, 2018

What's fucked Up is that people have docking stations at home, that sitting in the office isn't indicative of activity and these are all admitted in the email.

The staffer also basically accuses people of being lazy and then tries and spin it like they can't wait to get dinner all together.

This is why people aren't going into banking. If I was this kids VP or Director id rip his ass for causing grief and furthering negative feelings about banking.

Apr 4, 2018

lol... I'll never get how people can function when working till 2-3am and waking up at 7-8am EVERYDAY. Literal torture. HR really needs to get on these nerds...

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Apr 5, 2018

Most of them don't actually function at a high level. They're likely doing a bunch of drone work, not much actual critical thinking. Only a very, very small number of people can actually get away with that schedule and perform high-functioning jobs.

    • 3
Apr 5, 2018
Tom Bwady:

Most of them don't actually function at a high level. They're likely doing a bunch of drone work, not much actual critical thinking. Only a very, very small number of people can actually get away with that schedule and perform high-functioning jobs.

Coke heads.

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Apr 4, 2018

What a dick. Seriously.

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Apr 4, 2018

Things like this are a big reason Moelis get the rep they have. Such a prestigious boutique, but expectations are extremely high.

Apr 4, 2018

Big reason why they'll never be nor beat Lazard/Evercore (although I've heard first hand Lazard's culture isn't the best either). Not even the expectation, just a crapton of pitchwork to generate revenue

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Apr 5, 2018

Apparently Evercore's culture is amazing. Business casual while in the office when no clients are around as well. With many things there are tradeoffs, but them paying amongst the highest, great culture, and awesome exit opps... It is almost obnoxious how great of a place it is to be there.

    • 2
Apr 5, 2018

Within some of the European cities your night starts at 10 PM if you're at Laz. Those guys are consistently running on 3-4 hours

    • 1
Apr 5, 2018

Lol... Yeah they seem to be struggling

Apr 5, 2018

I mean, they're paying analysts ~200K. I guess they're expecting a lot in return.

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Apr 4, 2018

Do you have a source on that? 200k starting sounds a bit high no?

Apr 4, 2018

Top bucket got $180k but that was an abnormal year they're more along the lines of other top boutiques pay wise. The only firms that consistently pay better is PJT/Centerview

( source from alumni, friends)

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Apr 5, 2018

Never ceases to amaze me at how much bankers lack human management skills. A staffer in my office sent a similar note like this and he got destroyed for it when corporate found out since they were praying it would not be leaked out.

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Apr 5, 2018

I can only imagine, this is a brutal look for Moelis.

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Apr 5, 2018
dunkindonutscoffee:

Never ceases to amaze me at how much bankers lack human management skills. A staffer in my office sent a similar note like this and he got destroyed for it when corporate found out since they were praying it would not be leaked out.

Eh I don't think think this is a human management issue. At the end of the day the staffer has a basically impossible job, especially at a place like Moelis where this is significant deal flow and a lean junior staff. The staffer basically has the unenviable position of needing to get a ton of groups/seniors staffing while at the same time getting push back from every junior since they are at capacity. It's not like a VP is going to tell an MD that his pitch/potential deal is not important enough to staff.

Pretty tame email compared to the old DLJ email that circulated back in the day https://sites.google.com/site/nttvfavorites/other/...

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Apr 4, 2018

Why not hire for juniors then? I'd say it is a human management issue. I get that "multiple analysts can't work on the same deal" or whatever... but obviously these guys are juggling a ton of shit. Sounds like they could use 5+ Analysts.

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Apr 5, 2018

In my analyst days, I would've been as angry and exhausted as the recipients of this email. However, in hindsight and now having become friends with my former staffers I completely agree @Quaneaser . They really are in an impossible position. Analysts getting crushed is a combination of the transactional nature of the industry, hyper competitiveness at the revenue gen level (MD and Director), "I worked this hard therefore so should you" culture, and firms like Moelis choosing to run lean junior teams. None of these things are really the staffer's fault.

Now, could this staffer have worded things differently? Maybe not put things in an email? 1000%. However, he's likely stressed out of his mind, in his mid-30's, and walking around an office at 12:30AM questioning some of his own decisions.

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Apr 5, 2018

100% true.. as a prev staffer, what else are you supposed to do? NOTHING is ever fair, EVERY MD's request is "KO wants to buy PEP tomorrow", so you are left to moronic tactics that NEVER please anyone. I have yet to hear ONE better solution to this -- just whiney millenials complaining how "everything is f'ed and sht". Tell me, what would YOU do?

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Apr 5, 2018

The big difference here is that in IB, there are many people who would gladly take your job, so you have to put up with this BS. Simply put, there just isn't a human capital management requirement at the junior level. In corporate, where the level of qualified candidates drops significantly, it's a lot different.

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Apr 5, 2018

What drugs is this person on? Dear lord.

No pain no game.

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Apr 5, 2018

I'm all for staying beyond 'traditional' working hours at the office (until 11pm or midnight) but this is brutal. Surely they recognise people work differently and as long as the deal is done who cares? I'll happy work until 3am but if you wake me up before 9am I'll eat your face. Friends of mine have no issue waking up at 5am but need to be in bed by 11pm.

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Apr 4, 2018

exactly my philosophy as well. I seriously think if they let these kids sleep even 1 1/2 - 2 hours a night on average that they would be so much more efficient. Instead of having to re-read shit 5x cuz their brains aren't comprehending shit, they could re-read it 2x etc.

I mean there's no shortage of research on what sleep deprivation does to your body and mind. IB is too old school at some firms. Some of the BBs seem to be "getting it" to an extent

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Apr 5, 2018
  1. Fuck that guy
  2. Fuck Moelis - just hire more juniors it's not like they can't afford it
Apr 5, 2018

Just as an FYI: Moelis has materially expanded its junior classes and improved its senior to junior banker ratio over the years.

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Apr 12, 2018

thank you moelis slave

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Apr 5, 2018

What are the actual hours like for an IB analyst at Moelis?

Apr 11, 2018
Pizz:

What are the actual hours like for an IB analyst at Moelis?

Not that bad if you average out the whole class. They doubled class size in NY since 2014. I know kids in recent years that hide in the herd, don't work super late, dont come in on weekends, etc. There are also kids that pull an all nighter a week and just work 7 days every week.

Apr 5, 2018

Well this is sad but not all that surprising...

Based on our 2018 IB Industry Report so far (hour chart near bottom), Moelis is #5 out of #137 IBs for most hours worked coming in at an average of 84.3hrs/week and has jumped 4 spots since the 2017 report (they were ranked #9 before).

Also, out of the top 10 banks for most hrs/week, I'd say they are by far the most sought after by undergrads. I'm confident this will get some press and will hopefully change the staffing model (and/or bring in some lateral help asap).

Stay strong!
Patrick

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Apr 5, 2018

And I would be willing to guess from what I know through people that those hours are underreported

Apr 5, 2018

Mods, if we're going to have a discussion, can we at least do it based on facts? According to IG, the timestamp on the email was 12:30am not 2am... The original poster also took some liberties in paraphasing the email he quoted.

Apr 5, 2018

What does Wells Fargo pay to get that high for the "Your compensation compared with similar jobs elsewhere?" question?

Apr 5, 2018

Moelis is known to be pretty sweaty. Was at a MP with these guys for my PE firm and the junior guy looked ragged haha

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Apr 5, 2018

It's interesting that a lot of people here are quick to blame the guy specifically and no one else, which is extremely short sighted, and missing the big picture. The guy is simply a direct reflection of the culture at Moelis, which flows from the top. He is a vehicle to communicate the firm's overall approach to the business and attitude towards junior employees

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Apr 5, 2018

Actually it makes perfect sense. Many Wall Street types are shortsighted and often miss the big picture

Apr 6, 2018

SB'd both you and the parent comment.

Apr 5, 2018

I bet this is the same guy that tells new-hires "You don't have to worry about facetime here, buddy. We have a very flat meritocracy."

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Apr 5, 2018

Words have never been spoken truer. I always remember a guy who hired me telling me "we don't have ass holes here" - he was the biggest ass hole I ever worked with. I've had 5 different jobs for fuck sake and millions of bosses. But this guy stood out, and he made a point of saying that there are no ass holes at his company.

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Apr 5, 2018
Nudnick McMooch:

I bet this is the same guy that tells new-hires "You don't have to worry about facetime here, buddy. We have a very flat meritocracy."

Dude - you got quoted in the FT
https://www.ft.com/content/7abd10e8-4162-11e8-93cf...

Apr 5, 2018

The US (and UK) is the only countr(y)(ies) where working inhumane hours is a badge of honor.

Try going to France/Italy and they'll laugh at your stupidity. It's no wonder they're generally happier and have higher life satisfaction.

Money without time is like having a Ferrari without (sufficient) gasoline.
Good to look at, not really enjoyable.

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Apr 7, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

The US (and UK) is the only countr(y)(ies) where working inhumane hours is a badge of honor.

What about Hong Kong?

Apr 5, 2018

Japan is notorious for this as well - not just in banking.

Apr 5, 2018

Go work in IB in France you won't be able to shit straight for the rest of your life.
Not just that, but they get paid less and work more. That's for IB specifically. The whole 35 hours work week etc... that's if you work for the government...
(Disclaimer: I only worked in the UK and the US, but know plenty of French people who did IB in France)

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Apr 4, 2018
MonacoMonkey:

The US (and UK) is the only countr(y)(ies) where working inhumane hours is a badge of honor.

Try going to France/Italy and they'll laugh at your stupidity. It's no wonder they're generally happier and have higher life satisfaction.

Money without time is like having a Ferrari without (sufficient) gasoline.
Good to look at, not really enjoyable.

Japan is the worst country for work life balance

May 22, 2018

@MonacoMonkey lol what? Not in IB for sure. In Paris/Frankfurt you get worked more than in London, on average.

If you don't believe me, go to Laz/Roth offices in Frankfurt/Paris at 3 am and you will see kids taking a 10 min nap in the toilets bcz they fricking exhausted

Apr 5, 2018

he/she needs friends

It ain't what you know, it's who you know

Apr 5, 2018

Does anyone have input on Moelis SF? They seemed to be a lot better, and I was seriously considering recruiting there but this is definitely giving me second thoughts.

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Apr 5, 2018

If you're referring to Moelis LA, it's not much better, but the exits they get are top-tier, so it's worth going for.

Apr 5, 2018

I was referring to the tech team in SF. Do you have any insight into their culture?

Apr 17, 2018

Heard its on par with the amazing exits opps of Moelis LA, think there was a recent post about this... Definitely better than Moelis Ny

Apr 7, 2018

There should be a thread to rank shops from biggest to least sweatshop...

    • 1
Apr 5, 2018

*perhaps most sweaty to least sweaty?

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Apr 5, 2018

"blowing off some steam" is definitely one of those terms your asshole MD says to seem like he actually gives a shit about your quality of life

Apr 5, 2018

Reading the email, I feel the staffer really trying to be nice (e.g. showing appreciation, using the carrot and not the stick to motivate people, being open to suggestions) but no matter how he tries to sugarcoat it, a sweatshop is still a sweatshop.

Apr 5, 2018

Hey all. Having worked at Moelis for years now (including the analyst role), I'd love to hit the brakes on the Moelis-bashing and present some additional thoughts and facts for consideration.

Staffer: The vast majority of Moelis employees who actually know the staffer involved would acknowledge that he is a highly respected and solid guy, both personally and professionally. While his e-mail surely could have been better handled, I'd like to remind the folks commenting here (both Moelis, and non-Moelis) that each story has two sides. The reality is, staffers take on a taxing role (above and beyond their existing banker responsibilities) -- and this role is made even more challenging by a contingent of analysts who actively game the staffing system and misrepresent their capacity when their peers are at truly working at 100% and the firm has a robust pipeline of new deals.

Analyst Life at Moelis: While there is no doubt that folks at Moelis work extremely hard, the firm has made a meaningful effort to improve the quality of life for analysts and associates over the years. Moelis had a tough reputation in its early days, and perhaps deservedly so due to the imbalance of senior and junior hires ("growing pains" that almost every firm goes through) -- but the firm was quick to recognize these issues and work to make changes accordingly. Moelis has not only significantly expanded its junior classes to improve senior to junior banker ratios (which are now more balanced than ever before), but the firm has also implemented "protected vacation" policies, social committees with generous budgets for all classes to do regular social activities, healthy living perks, and more.

The Investment Banking Business: Separately, it's also probably worth reminding everyone that investment banking -- being on the sell side and servicing our clients -- has structural limitations on work-life balance due to client demands. While senior bankers can and should certainly work to be efficient with their teams' time and respectful of junior bankers' personal lives, many demands from the top are not coming from MDs or EDs but rather clients themselves.

Two Sides to Every Coin: I'll close with a reminder that Moelis has gone from being a non-existent firm to one of the top investment banks in the span of a decade -- but that accelerated growth trajectory doesn't come without great leadership, smart people, and a lot of hard work. The intensity of the firm may not be for everyone, but before bankers complain or criticize the firm they should also acknowledge the top-of-the-line reputation, live deal exposure, latitude, post-analyst placement, robust compensation, and other benefits they have received in return.

Thanks,
IBanker399

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Apr 5, 2018

Stockholm syndrome

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Apr 6, 2018
SnappleApple:

Stockholm syndrome

Fawk that was funny! You literally made me laugh out loud!+SB buddy.

Apr 5, 2018

Either that or OP is the staffer?

Apr 5, 2018

I've definitely heard they've improved, but the reasons you're giving for why Moelis's hours are so intense don't apply to pretty much any other growing boutique.

I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, though, while it definitely is a sweatshop a lot of the experience you get is quite valuable. When Ken Moelis came to my school for an info session he basically made this same pitch, saying analysts will have to work hard but it's ultimately worth it (he comped it to DBL when he was an analyst there). I still wouldn't work there, but for certain people I can see the appeal.

    • 1
Apr 5, 2018

DELETE

Apr 5, 2018

Plz pass the koolaid
thx

    • 3
Apr 6, 2018

Agree on most points but fact still remains that this approach to gauging capacity on the floor is extremely lazy. I'm the staffer at my firm and there a number of measuring tools I've set up to gauge capacity and overworked teams.

1) track late taxis and match them to specific projects - get daily reports of who is leaving extremely late and which projects he/she is on
2) Weekend work emails - get emails from juniors on which projects they worked on over the weekend
3) Weekly catch-ups with partners and heads of verticals to understand what are the most intense projects in their view (takes 2 minutes for each)
4) Always push back on last minute requests. Staffing for pitches and marketing decks should be requested when the meeting is set up. Raise it with seniors every time this happens. It's usually the VP or MD who forgot to request it staffing.

All this combined gives you a pretty good understanding of who is getting fucked and who can handle some more work.

This is not hard stuff to put in place. Just needs senior support. So the fact the seniors don't care enough about these things says enough about the culture.

    • 15
Apr 4, 2018
Cotton Eyed Joe:

Agree on most points but fact still remains that this approach to gauging capacity on the floor is extremely lazy. I'm the staffer at my firm and there a number of measuring tools I've set up to gauge capacity and overworked teams.

1) track late taxis and match them to specific projects - get daily reports of who is leaving extremely late and which projects he/she is on
2) Weekend work emails - get emails from juniors on which projects they worked on over the weekend
3) Weekly catch-ups with partners and heads of verticals to understand what are the most intense projects in their view (takes 2 minutes for each)
4) Always push back on last minute requests. Staffing for pitches and marketing decks should be requested when the meeting is set up. Raise it with seniors every time this happens. It's usually the VP or MD who forgot to request it staffing.

All this combined gives you a pretty good understanding of who is getting fucked and who can handle some more work.

This is not hard stuff to put in place. Just needs senior support. So the fact the seniors don't care enough about these things says enough about the culture.

You honestly sound like an awesome, sane, competent staffer to work for. Your junior team sounds lucky to have you

    • 4
Apr 11, 2018
Cotton Eyed Joe:

Agree on most points but fact still remains that this approach to gauging capacity on the floor is extremely lazy. I'm the staffer at my firm and there a number of measuring tools I've set up to gauge capacity and overworked teams.

1) track late taxis and match them to specific projects - get daily reports of who is leaving extremely late and which projects he/she is on
2) Weekend work emails - get emails from juniors on which projects they worked on over the weekend
3) Weekly catch-ups with partners and heads of verticals to understand what are the most intense projects in their view (takes 2 minutes for each)
4) Always push back on last minute requests. Staffing for pitches and marketing decks should be requested when the meeting is set up. Raise it with seniors every time this happens. It's usually the VP or MD who forgot to request it staffing.

All this combined gives you a pretty good understanding of who is getting fucked and who can handle some more work.

This is not hard stuff to put in place. Just needs senior support. So the fact the seniors don't care enough about these things says enough about the culture.

Is staffer your only job?? Hahaha

Apr 5, 2018

Nice to see Moelis's PR department doing their job.

    • 3
Apr 5, 2018

To be clear, I'm an employee on the banking side.

    • 1
Apr 8, 2018

The OP refers to the NY office, which I have heard is the worst for hours/lifestyle. Chicago and LA seem to be a little bit better in terms of hours (like 5-7 less a week) but still pretty brutal.

    • 1
Apr 11, 2018
Banker4LIFO:

The OP refers to the NY office, which I have heard is the worst for hours/lifestyle. Chicago and LA seem to be a little bit better in terms of hours (like 5-7 less a week) but still pretty brutal.

LA is worse....

Apr 8, 2018

Stop trying to reverse the fact that Moelis is a shitty place to work at, we all know it is bruh. Great exit opps but dogshit life for years

Apr 8, 2018

Sure, Moelis PR rep.

Apr 11, 2018
IBanker399:

Hey all. Having worked at Moelis for years now (including the analyst role), I'd love to hit the brakes on the Moelis-bashing and present some additional thoughts and facts for consideration.

Staffer: The vast majority of Moelis employees who actually know the staffer involved would acknowledge that he is a highly respected and solid guy, both personally and professionally. While his e-mail surely could have been better handled, I'd like to remind the folks commenting here (both Moelis, and non-Moelis) that each story has two sides. The reality is, staffers take on a taxing role (above and beyond their existing banker responsibilities) -- and this role is made even more challenging by a contingent of analysts who actively game the staffing system and misrepresent their capacity when their peers are at truly working at 100% and the firm has a robust pipeline of new deals.

Analyst Life at Moelis: While there is no doubt that folks at Moelis work extremely hard, the firm has made a meaningful effort to improve the quality of life for analysts and associates over the years. Moelis had a tough reputation in its early days, and perhaps deservedly so due to the imbalance of senior and junior hires ("growing pains" that almost every firm goes through) -- but the firm was quick to recognize these issues and work to make changes accordingly. Moelis has not only significantly expanded its junior classes to improve senior to junior banker ratios (which are now more balanced than ever before), but the firm has also implemented "protected vacation" policies, social committees with generous budgets for all classes to do regular social activities, healthy living perks, and more.

The Investment Banking Business: Separately, it's also probably worth reminding everyone that investment banking -- being on the sell side and servicing our clients -- has structural limitations on work-life balance due to client demands. While senior bankers can and should certainly work to be efficient with their teams' time and respectful of junior bankers' personal lives, many demands from the top are not coming from MDs or EDs but rather clients themselves.

Two Sides to Every Coin: I'll close with a reminder that Moelis has gone from being a non-existent firm to one of the top investment banks in the span of a decade -- but that accelerated growth trajectory doesn't come without great leadership, smart people, and a lot of hard work. The intensity of the firm may not be for everyone, but before bankers complain or criticize the firm they should also acknowledge the top-of-the-line reputation, live deal exposure, latitude, post-analyst placement, robust compensation, and other benefits they have received in return.

Thanks,
IBanker399

Your name should have been Club399.
Agree with all this. I would also say that a lot of analysts milk the Moelis sweatshop reputation and tell everyone how "jammed" and "swamped" they are, when in actuality everyone always upsells how "hard" they are working. I do 100% agree that in the early days everyone got cranked and that reputation was WELL deserved, but these days it's just entitled kids trying to dick measure against their friends at other banks of how "hard" they are cranking.

    • 2
Apr 5, 2018

Definitely top tier bank with best exit opps but I (and have) would take less exit opportunity , and work for Evercore or PJT

    • 2
Apr 5, 2018

What a nice PR response.

    • 5
Apr 6, 2018

This is ridiculous, and not standard at all. Moelis has been a sweatshop for years, nothing new, and vast majority of analysts I know who have finished 2 years there are completely burned out.

Exits are overhyped and pale in comparison to any top BBs (GS, MS, JPM) and elite boutiques (Centerview, Lazard, PJT, Evercore). Few of the top guys in the class might land something solid, but most of the guys I know have ended up at very run of the mill MM firms or struck out on recruiting altogether.

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Apr 12, 2018

Definitely not true. Have a friend in Moelis, and Moelis did probably best in terms of MF/HF placement..

    • 1
Apr 10, 2018

I'm not sure what you want me to say; I also have friends in Moelis, and they don't corroborate this at all. I know for a fact the classes that left in 2016 and 2017 from New York didn't place that well. I know for a fact the current 2nd years didn't place that well. And I'm guessing from the tone of the poster who leaked the email, the current 1st years also didn't place that well; I'd imagine he/she wouldn't be blasting the firm if half the kids got placed in excellent pe jobs.

Everything I know about LA is second-hand. Hear it's great, but that's not really what the post is about...

    • 1
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Apr 6, 2018

For what it's worth, a lot of the bashing going on right now is comments from people I think are still in college. I never worked at Moelis so I can't comment first hand, but I know a bunch of people who've worked there over the years. These are my thoughts.

1) Moelis still provides an outstanding platform for exit opps, although some classes like 2016s recruit exceptionally, and others like 2017s don't recruit as well. This is nothing new, there's no shortage of comments on this site about how lumpy it seems Moelis classes place. I'm not sure if that's a reflection on the analysts, the firm, or bad luck. The only thing I know for certain having gone through buyside recruiting (such a s***show no matter where you are) and having interviewed analysts now on the the other side of the table, I feel that virtually every opportunity possible will consider the right Moelis candidate. And that goes for every top shop on the street. You're misinformed if you think that someone from Lazard or from Evercore has different opportunities than someone from Moelis. Say what you want that Moelis analysts are burned out, but everyone I've met has been really strong. And for all the college kids who measure their dicks by the place they are working when they graduate, I promise you if you want to work at Apollo, or KKR, or a no name fund in Connecticut, it comes down to you, and not Moelis vs JP vs PJT.

2) I've been told Moelis has been trying to improve the work/life situation. I know from a first hand source that they addressed these very threads and this email, and were surprisingly not mad at the analysts at all, and essentially explained how they found themselves understaffed, apologized to the analysts and explained what they're doing to make things better. I heard from a buddy's roommate that the upcoming intern class is 35+ but would obviously like that confirmed by another source, and that of course won't solve any short term problems.

3) Remember Evercore was founded in 1995, Lazard was like the 1800s, PJT was 1987 (as Blackstone), Moelis was 2007 yet is still viewed on par as these other shops. Think about that, in 10 years Moelis built an incredible platform from nothing. In the past couple weeks I feel the biggest story in M&A had been Broadcom, in restructuring has been iheart, and in cap markets has been Saudi Aramco. Moelis is a LEAD ADVISOR ON ALL OF THEM. Think about what it means to build a brand like that when your entire offering is advice. And despite that, it seems like the whole firm still acts like they have a chip on their shoulder. The Moelis senior roster is a lot of ex-DLJ guys. I've worked with a lot of ex-DLJ guys -- GSO comes to mind. These are very bright, but incredibly scrappy people. If you've worked with any of these guys on a deal you'll know what I mean. As far as how that relates to culture, I've found despite their "prestige" Moelis has a surprisingly high number of non-core kids. They like the scrappy mentality. If there are white shoe firms, then Moelis is a blue collar firm. I don't think the culture there is cutthroat (maybe it is I don't know) but from what I've heard the analysts are really really supportive of each other. IMO I'd bet the culture there is better described as scrappy.

4) What will likely come of all this noise? This is a bad look, obviously. But end of the day clients are still going to hire Moelis because the senior people there are as good as they get. Analysts will still want to work for Moelis because it's the best generalist program and pays well above street (although after reading this thread maybe not adjusted for hours ha!). I do think the firm will try to make lives better for analysts. If every single analyst is at max capacity and new staffings continue to come in then they'll have to simply add capacity (anyone looking to lateral?). If you think Moelis is going to stop getting top notch chip on their shoulder analysts you're wrong. If you think Moelis doesn't send great kids to great funds you're wrong. This is obviously not good press the firm, but I do think they'll somewhat address it.

Let me know your guys's thoughts.

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Apr 6, 2018

I don't know Rick, it looks fake

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Apr 6, 2018

You say Moelis entire offering is advice, what does this mean? How is this different from other banks?

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    • 3
Apr 6, 2018

No financing.

Apr 6, 2018

deleted

Apr 7, 2018

Definitely dont agree so them being blue collar IB firm, as I have seen alot of nontargets at GS, Evercore, Lazard, CS, BAML. The exits are between GS TMT and MS M&A, but it will be a sweat shop. I work for BB just FYI.

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Apr 10, 2018

"Between GS TMT and MS M&A"

    • 2
Apr 7, 2018

This is garbage, I wouldnt say better than MS M&A.... On par with MS M&A

    • 1
Apr 6, 2018

Would still trade my left nut for the offer

“How do you measure yourself against other golfers” “By height”
    • 3
Apr 7, 2018

How this differs from country to country? I mean, generally speaking NY/HK hours are longer than EU ones. But wonder how the gap is, from US city to city (eg NY - Chicago or Boston) to international cities (eg NY - London and so on). Cheers

Apr 7, 2018

You know what you're getting in to when you take the position. You're NOT being paid 100 - 200k for being SMART (shock!!!), you're being paid that much because you're stupid enough to work 100hour weeks, to plug numbers in to excel and create reports/presentations.

The sad reality is, as entitled as you feel to work less hours and recieve the same pay, there are literally 100,000's with the same ability as you that will gladly work the same hours for 1/2 of the pay.

Apr 7, 2018

Your comment about how there are 100,000 kids willing to do this job for half the price is a grossly exaggerated concept.

I agree there is a LONG line of kids who will take an offer, but that doesn't mean the same long line of kids is willing to stay for a full 2 years while being abused. The fact that people burn out before 2 years and complain about abuse means that either Moelis is picking the wrong people from this "long line" or there is something very wrong with the culture at the firm. So no, there isn't a long line of kids actually willing to work at Moelis, just a long line of people who want the "investment banking analyst" title to leverage for the next opportunity

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    • 1
Apr 11, 2018
exlurker:

Your comment about how there are 100,000 kids willing to do this job for half the price is a grossly exaggerated concept.

I agree there is a LONG line of kids who will take an offer, but that doesn't mean the same long line of kids is willing to stay for a full 2 years while being abused. The fact that people burn out before 2 years and complain about abuse means that either Moelis is picking the wrong people from this "long line" or there is something very wrong with the culture at the firm. So no, there isn't a long line of kids actually willing to work at Moelis, just a long line of people who want the "investment banking analyst" title to leverage for the next opportunity

Shocker dude. Most of the silver spoon kids that get offers from these places cant hack it either. Where you go to school or bank has 0 indication on if you can do the job. And by do the job I mean physically and mentally.

    • 1
Apr 7, 2018

I don't work in this industry and don't understand for the life of me how your jobs take you 14 hours a day to do.

Are there not macros or scripts you can use to just automate most of the Excel stuff? If it's writing content, aren't most of your pitch books basically saying the same thing, just with different numbers and industry terms plugged in?

This all seems like an incredibly pointless dick-measuring contest that contributes little of value to anything or anyone.

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Apr 7, 2018

It's literally plugging numbers in to excel and formatting powerpoint slides, don't let WSO fool you into thinking its anything sexier than that!

I've ran out of SB's

Apr 5, 2018

I can only speak for my experience, but 95% of the time most of our models/pitch materials/ other supporting documents are built entirely from scratch. This is why I can spend 14 hours in one day not finishing a very extensive buyers list

Apr 11, 2018

Where do you work? Besides building models from scratch, which makes sense, the rest seems terribly inefficient. Does your team view every single pitch / bakeoff as literally a foreign entity to anything you guys have previously done before?

Apr 4, 2018
houstontxn:

I don't work in this industry and don't understand for the life of me how your jobs take you 14 hours a day to do.

Are there not macros or scripts you can use to just automate most of the Excel stuff? If it's writing content, aren't most of your pitch books basically saying the same thing, just with different numbers and industry terms plugged in?

This all seems like an incredibly pointless dick-measuring contest that contributes little of value to anything or anyone.

Here is the reason people don't understand ib hours: Your superiors are always ready to give more work. You spend 12 hours working on a complicated deck, analysis etc. You send it to associate/vp/MD at 9pm. They respond with 15 new things to add (not necessarily mistakes on your end, just new ideas and additions) and want it in their inbox at 7am next day. This is why people work until 4am/all nighters. In other industries, when you send an email at 9pm your superior may be offline/not ready to give more work. Not the case in ib

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Apr 8, 2018

I don't know why there are multiple threads about this issue, as I mentioned in other post-

Moelis kids, suck it up. the time stamp was 12:30am which isnt 4am in banking standards.
You will be absolutely crushed and you knew this, BUT you knew this would give you
1. Great deals for CV
2. Senior guys calling PE funds
3. Technical skills

Which would lead you to best exit opps on the street. IMO its really dumb to even forward this to the public and publicly shame your own firm.

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Apr 10, 2018

Something doesn't translate (as Black Jack mentioned) in this line of reasoning for Moelis NY. I've had friends there the past couple years, and as Black Jack said, the exits aren't that stellar; there are like 25-30 kids/class now and I'd say the majority (15+) either strike out in recruiting or go to mm/lower mm funds people have never heard of. Those exits just aren't that great...no idea why exactly that is though, because I agree the opportunities should be open to you. But it seems like the only top-notch funds that are regularly hiring Moelis NY guys are Apollo and Centerbridge, and that's just a couple kids a year. So take what you will from that, but note that literally every other EB/top BB group that people lump in with Moelis (GS classic, MS M&A, Evercore, PJT, Lazard, and so on) has done much better than that recently. Again, the MDs will call sponsors and all that, but that obviously isn't writing this "golden ticket" people keep talking about for most Moelis analysts.

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Apr 9, 2018

your effort to downgrade moelis exit opps seems like your another college kid w summer offer from one the EBs you listed either PJT or Lazard. Very clear.

I am a headhunter and Moelis is considered top group for candidacy along w Gs tmt, Ms m&a, gs fig, evercore m&a, ms tech m&a, barclays energy and CS lev fin

See you during our coffee chat.

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Apr 6, 2018

Deleted

Apr 8, 2018

.

Apr 8, 2018

Sounds like everyone is working pretty hard so it'll probably go up.

    • 5
Apr 8, 2018

I used to work pretty closely with a lot of the MDs at Moelis (they all came from somewhere else originally, so knowing a lot of them from other banks when they first started wasn't uncommon). I also used to work at Lazard as an analyst, so I have little sympathy for the long hours. The MDs at Moelis that I know (more than a dozen of them across NY, London and HK) are genuinely nice guys that I have spent time with outside of work.

The fact is that most people at the VP level at banks are an odd lot. Some started as analysts, and just stayed at the bank. Some enter as associates and don't leave because it's harder to do so. Some have families and work insane hours on top of having to deal with the family problems that come with those hours.

The staffer here was being a bit lazy, but was invariably suffering from the same mental fog that everyone here seems to be complaining about. If you're sending e-mails to analysts past midnight because you're still in the office and they're not, you're probably irked by that. The staffer thinks, "Why am I here while these guys are at home sleeping? Maybe one of them is even getting laid! Outrage! DISGRACE! It's time to remind these plebs that Big Brother is watching."

I doubt the staffer would have sent the e-mail in the morning, but his job sucks. No one really wants to be the staffer. It's extra work, and it doesn't really help you in jumping into a director role, since it does nothing for aiding you in generating revenue. That said, I think there are a lot of ways to improve the investment banking staffing model. It was broken long before I was an analyst and perpetuates itself through tradition mostly.

When I became a buyer of banking services (as opposed to a purveyor), I used to request an analyst staffed on my projects full time. If I'm paying you half a million per month in retainer and another $10M+ on the back end, you can go ahead and give me an analyst or an associate full-time. I mean, I want them sitting with me in the lawyers offices and fully owning the model with all changes to assumptions. They can come with me to speak with the pension consultants. I will introduce them to the transaction services guys if we're using any. And they should attend all of the major diligence meetings so they can, you know, learn how to work on a deal.

Bankers are too often absent from meetings. And when they do show up, it's the very senior guys who don't do any fucking paperwork. That's nonsense. I don't need another guy older than me delegating responsibilities to people, especially when I'm paying him. And the truth is that a lot of senior bankers haven't got the transaction services chops that the guys at PWC possess. That sounds nuts, but I swear I find those guys more useful by far than directors and MDs at BBs or EBs.

There should be a larger pool of analysts and associates, and more clients should demand dedicated resources. This dual or triple or quad-staffing model is crap. I don't need 4 analysts 25% of the time. I need 1 analyst 100% of the time. I don't need them distracted by other projects. I don't need some VP pulling them into some nonsense marketing pitch while they're still working on my live deal for which they're already getting paid. When I send them home at 9pm or 10pm, they're done for the day. I'm paying for that, so fuck your staffing model.

Sadly, this won't change until Goldman/MS/Lazard change their leverage ratios. In this case, 'leverage' means the ratio of revenue generators to non-revenue generating staff. Rev/partner still matters a lot. As does staff leverage. But as I have bought several professional services companies, I can also tell you that I care greatly about utilization rates. In top-tier management consulting firms, if you're running above about 75% utilization of non-partner, billing employees (excluding admin/hr/etc.) at a 6-to-1 or 7-to-1 non-partner/partner ratio, you're maxed out. That's not a good thing. It means you're likely to see a dip in revenues in a quarter or so because you don't have any slack left in your business. And if you're above those metrics, you're running the firm too hot. You risk attrition through burn-out and need to bring on additional staff.

This isn't rocket science, but most bankers imagine themselves to be strategists, but aren't really strategists, so they can miss somewhat obvious pain points in their own businesses. Combined with the try-hard-then-try-harder mentality, and you rarely see operational changes in the staffing models at investment banks. Perhaps if you saw equity analysts cover banks slightly differently and care about different metrics, you'd see a change. I know I wrote above that you need Goldman/MS/Lazard to go first, but I don't know if that would do it either. It would make their analysts' lives better, but I can't be sure the rest of the Street would follow suit. I think bankers care most about financial metrics, so equity analysts probably have more ability to effect change than anyone else in this case.

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Apr 7, 2018
brotherbear:

And the truth is that a lot of senior bankers haven't got the transaction services chops that the guys at PWC possess. That sounds nuts, but I swear I find those guys more useful by far than directors and MDs at BBs or EBs.

Whats transaction services?

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Apr 8, 2018
Apr 9, 2018

Great post thanks.

Apr 4, 2018
brotherbear:

I used to work pretty closely with a lot of the MDs at Moelis (they all came from somewhere else originally, so knowing a lot of them from other banks when they first started wasn't uncommon). I also used to work at Lazard as an analyst, so I have little sympathy for the long hours. The MDs at Moelis that I know (more than a dozen of them across NY, London and HK) are genuinely nice guys that I have spent time with outside of work.

The fact is that most people at the VP level at banks are an odd lot. Some started as analysts, and just stayed at the bank. Some enter as associates and don't leave because it's harder to do so. Some have families and work insane hours on top of having to deal with the family problems that come with those hours.

The staffer here was being a bit lazy, but was invariably suffering from the same mental fog that everyone here seems to be complaining about. If you're sending e-mails to analysts past midnight because you're still in the office and they're not, you're probably irked by that. The staffer thinks, "Why am I here while these guys are at home sleeping? Maybe one of them is even getting laid! Outrage! DISGRACE! It's time to remind these plebs that Big Brother is watching."

I doubt the staffer would have sent the e-mail in the morning, but his job sucks. No one really wants to be the staffer. It's extra work, and it doesn't really help you in jumping into a director role, since it does nothing for aiding you in generating revenue. That said, I think there are a lot of ways to improve the investment banking staffing model. It was broken long before I was an analyst and perpetuates itself through tradition mostly.

When I became a buyer of banking services (as opposed to a purveyor), I used to request an analyst staffed on my projects full time. If I'm paying you half a million per month in retainer and another $10M+ on the back end, you can go ahead and give me an analyst or an associate full-time. I mean, I want them sitting with me in the lawyers offices and fully owning the model with all changes to assumptions. They can come with me to speak with the pension consultants. I will introduce them to the transaction services guys if we're using any. And they should attend all of the major diligence meetings so they can, you know, learn how to work on a deal.

Bankers are too often absent from meetings. And when they do show up, it's the very senior guys who don't do any fucking paperwork. That's nonsense. I don't need another guy older than me delegating responsibilities to people, especially when I'm paying him. And the truth is that a lot of senior bankers haven't got the transaction services chops that the guys at PWC possess. That sounds nuts, but I swear I find those guys more useful by far than directors and MDs at BBs or EBs.

There should be a larger pool of analysts and associates, and more clients should demand dedicated resources. This dual or triple or quad-staffing model is crap. I don't need 4 analysts 25% of the time. I need 1 analyst 100% of the time. I don't need them distracted by other projects. I don't need some VP pulling them into some nonsense marketing pitch while they're still working on my live deal for which they're already getting paid. When I send them home at 9pm or 10pm, they're done for the day. I'm paying for that, so fuck your staffing model.

Sadly, this won't change until Goldman/MS/Lazard change their leverage ratios. In this case, 'leverage' means the ratio of revenue generators to non-revenue generating staff. Rev/partner still matters a lot. As does staff leverage. But as I have bought several professional services companies, I can also tell you that I care greatly about utilization rates. In top-tier management consulting firms, if you're running above about 75% utilization of non-partner, billing employees (excluding admin/hr/etc.) at a 6-to-1 or 7-to-1 non-partner/partner ratio, you're maxed out. That's not a good thing. It means you're likely to see a dip in revenues in a quarter or so because you don't have any slack left in your business. And if you're above those metrics, you're running the firm too hot. You risk attrition through burn-out and need to bring on additional staff.

This isn't rocket science, but most bankers imagine themselves to be strategists, but aren't really strategists, so they can miss somewhat obvious pain points in their own businesses. Combined with the try-hard-then-try-harder mentality, and you rarely see operational changes in the staffing models at investment banks. Perhaps if you saw equity analysts cover banks slightly differently and care about different metrics, you'd see a change. I know I wrote above that you need Goldman/MS/Lazard to go first, but I don't know if that would do it either. It would make their analysts' lives better, but I can't be sure the rest of the Street would follow suit. I think bankers care most about financial metrics, so equity analysts probably have more ability to effect change than anyone else in this case.

Killing it man

    • 3
Apr 9, 2018

This isn't anything to raise a stink over...I've seen much worse group blasts. I don't think unnamed staffer was necessarily picking on kids not at their desks at 2am, just that he / she knows everyone's staffed up to the max and working (or should) at that time anyway and would be better served doing their work at the office vs. remotely from their East Village apartment.

    • 2
Apr 12, 2018

Honestly, I keep seeing this thread so I will comment.

The email is definitely not okay, but I dont think any bank thats EB, (not evercore) will be any different. Heard Lazard is terrible as well. Honestly out of all the EBs, I have heard Moelis places the best in both westcoast and eastcoast in terms of MF placement so why not take the one thats the best for marginally more shit hours...

If you think any other shop is different thats fucking stupid. And I work for another EB...

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Apr 6, 2018

.

    • 1
Apr 12, 2018

Run the DCF kid

    • 1
Apr 11, 2018

Incredibly stupid and thoughtless to send out such an e-mail. Overall I found most people at Moelis sincerely nice guys. It's the few douchebags like this one that contribute to a toxic and deteriorating culture.

Want to improve the firm's culture? Get rid of guys like this. There are thousands of applicants who will gladly take his job.

Apr 11, 2018

do any insiders know the aftermath of that staffer from management? curious to what happened afterwards. I'm sure everyone is curious so shoot this post some bananas so it can get some awareness

    • 8
Apr 12, 2018

It's depressing but that's because they are expecting you to always be in at that time.

If you're in a group/firm/industry where the hours are saner but for some crazy reason everyone is in till 2 one night, don't be the guy who is going to "work from home" unless you have a really good excuse. If things are really hitting the fan and you're not there, people will remember.

Apr 5, 2018

Truth. This goes for engineering as well when we had product returns.

No pain no game.

Apr 12, 2018

I think this isn't as bad as it sounds on first read. It sounds like the staffer (1) did a bed check (which is annoying) and (2) is saying "doing a bed check is not ideal but I don't have a better way to assess people's capacity right now so please provide me with suggestions on how to do that better."

"Given that new staffings continue to flow in and you are all very near capacity, the only way I can think of to differentiate among you is to see who is in the office in the wee hours of the morning....That said, this method isn't perfect and if you have any suggestions on how I can do this more accurately, I'm all ears"

    • 1
Apr 6, 2018
xxxEvilxxx:

I think this isn't as bad as it sounds on first read. It sounds like the staffer (1) did a bed check (which is annoying) and (2) is saying "doing a bed check is not ideal but I don't have a better way to assess people's capacity right now so please provide me with suggestions on how to do that better."

"Given that new staffings continue to flow in and you are all very near capacity, the only way I can think of to differentiate among you is to see who is in the office in the wee hours of the morning....That said, this method isn't perfect and if you have any suggestions on how I can do this more accurately, I'm all ears"

Where the hell did you guys work that the term "bed check" is in your vocabulary. Am I the only one who has never heard of this?

    • 1
Apr 13, 2018

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-13...
@AndyLouis @WallStreetOasis.com
Made the news
"Raich, 51, addressed managing directors after industry forum Wall Street Oasis posted parts of an email that a "Moelis Staffer" sent to the firm's analysts after discovering many of them weren't in the office after midnight, according to a blog post on the website."

    • 1
Apr 17, 2018

https://www.ft.com/content/7abd10e8-4162-11e8-93cf...
Also made the Financial Times, as well

Commenters on the website Wall Street Oasis, which first published the memo, expressed outrage. "This is why people aren't going into banking," wrote one. "I bet this is the same guy that tells new hires, 'You don't have to worry about facetime here, buddy. We have a very flat meritocracy'", another wrote.

Apr 13, 2018

The Staffer should be able to balance workload by having individual conversations to understand if late or early hours are due to efficiency (e.g. the Associate on the deal for an analyst that goes home "early" is very happy with that person's work) or because of not enough deals (which truthfully is only partially in the control of the Analyst). You will never get to a point where everyone is equally busy due to the volatile boom/bust nature of investment banking deals, and it is actually crazy to use that as a metric.

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Apr 15, 2018
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Apr 17, 2018

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