Facetime

vtech243's picture
Rank: Senior Baboon | 178

How bad is face time at your bank?

Mine is pretty crappy. My group is ~15 people. I have to be at my desk all the time. If my associates / VPs call me the first thing they ask is "are you in the office" even if it is a weekend. They call me in on weekends when they are there just in case work comes up they want me to be accessible. I can never leave before anyone more senior that me or I get a staffing email the next day because they assume I am not working on anything / I am not busy.

Is this common? I am debating if I should GTFO and lateral.

Comments (106)

Feb 7, 2013

Dude, if they're in there more than you, that's not good. Put yourself in their shoes.

Feb 7, 2013

I would GTFO... Going into the office on the weekends just in case? Nah

Feb 7, 2013
itecya:

I would GTFO... Going into the office on the weekends just in case? Nah

this... i wouldn't do that for 2 full years unless you are getting sick comp and can nab a sick job for after... simply not worth the sacrifice if those two aren't certain... plenty of other banks where face time isn't an issue like that

Feb 7, 2013

Basically any time director or up is there you should be.

Feb 7, 2013
Cruncharoo:

Basically any time director or up is there you should be.

nah that's bullshit... if you aren't working on anything with them and you are constantly having to put in face time that's a sign of a shitty culture

Feb 8, 2013
rufiolove:
Cruncharoo:

Basically any time director or up is there you should be.

nah that's bullshit... if you aren't working on anything with them and you are constantly having to put in face time that's a sign of a shitty culture

Ya this is the feedback I have been getting from my friends at other banks. On one side I feel bad because "I am not working as hard" as my senior people. Difference is they leave at 7/8 pm on week nights and I leave at 1/2 am. So to have to pull facetime is even worse because of the lack of time I get during the week. The idea that you should always be working on something even if it is BS work drives my group.

Feb 7, 2013

Do you really have to be in the office during the weekends even if nothing is going on? Can't you just say that you are not but you can go there?!

Feb 7, 2013

For summer internships you should be there 24/7.
For FT, no, definitely not showing up "just to be there"

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Feb 8, 2013

I actually clicked on this expecting another thread about Apple.

Feb 10, 2013
Ben Shalom Bernanke:

I actually clicked on this expecting another thread about Apple.

LOL

Feb 8, 2013

Simply being available is half the battle

Feb 10, 2013

Lol, showing up just to "be in the office"? That's ridiculous.

Feb 10, 2013

Definitely sounds like a backwards office environment. At my office, we encourage working from home. "Face time" is such an antiquated concept in our day and age. Face time is necessary from time to time and particularly among certain job roles, but a commute is a waste of time--it literally wastes the time of my employees. I'd rather have them available during the 90 minutes a day they would otherwise be commuting. 90 minutes * 5 days a week = 7.5 more hours of productive time/week with an employee, which is nearly an entire work day. By letting people work from home I'm getting about 50 more days of work out of an employee.

Particularly for an IB analyst, what in the world is it that you do that could not be done remotely? Can you not send Excel docs, pdfs, etc. via email? Goes to show that people really get stuck in their ways.

Feb 10, 2013
DCDepository:

Definitely sounds like a backwards office environment. At my office, we encourage working from home. "Face time" is such an antiquated concept in our day and age. Face time is necessary from time to time and particularly among certain job roles, but a commute is a waste of time--it literally wastes the time of my employees. I'd rather have them available during the 90 minutes a day they would otherwise be commuting. 90 minutes * 5 days a week = 7.5 more hours of productive time/week with an employee, which is nearly an entire work day. By letting people work from home I'm getting about 50 more days of work out of an employee.

Particularly for an IB analyst, what in the world is it that you do that could not be done remotely? Can you not send Excel docs, pdfs, etc. via email? Goes to show that people really get stuck in their ways.

I couldn't agree more with the commute being a waste of time. I spend roughly 2 hours a day commuting which involves a combinations of taking a bike, the commuter rail, and walking. I can't do anything productive during that time and it is extremely frustrating.

Feb 10, 2013

sounds like a shit culture. which bank is this?

Feb 11, 2013
ghandi:

OP/ahole,

quit then

Don't condescend when you aren't in the situation... You wouldn't like facetime either as it's bullshit... People like you wouldn't last thru an analyst stint because you think you're above everything and that you can deal with everything so much better just because you want the job someone else has... News flash, you are going to get fucking owned if you are lucky enough to get a banking job, so keep in mind how much of a douche you were to others when you are needlessly sitting in the office an additional 6 hours that you could have been sleeping after pulling 2 all nighters "just cause... someone might need you"... don't speak unless you know what you are speaking of...

Feb 11, 2013
rufiolove:
ghandi:

OP/ahole,

quit then

Don't condescend when you aren't in the situation... You wouldn't like facetime either as it's bullshit... People like you wouldn't last thru an analyst stint because you think you're above everything and that you can deal with everything so much better just because you want the job someone else has... News flash, you are going to get fucking owned if you are lucky enough to get a banking job, so keep in mind how much of a douche you were to others when you are needlessly sitting in the office an additional 6 hours that you could have been sleeping after pulling 2 all nighters "just cause... someone might need you"... don't speak unless you know what you are speaking of...

ghandi is the worst kind of troll. infuriating and not even a bit humorous.

Feb 10, 2013
vtech243:

I have to be at my desk all the time. If my associates / VPs call me the first thing they ask is "are you in the office" even if it is a weekend. They call me in on weekends when they are there just in case work comes up they want me to be accessible. I can never leave before anyone more senior that me or I get a staffing email the next day because they assume I am not working on anything / I am not busy.

When they do have you come in on weekends how often does something come up that happens when you go in?

Also, is this your VPs/associates specifically or is this coming down from your MD?

Feb 11, 2013

No facetime. As described by one of my MDs: "no one wants to hear your bitching if there is work and you need to be there but if its quiet, go away since I already see way too much of you". Not having to sit around and surf the web is definately a contributing factor to office moral.

Feb 11, 2013

It all depends on the bank. What about the other guys in the bank? Personally, I follow the rule of thumb: Get in before your associate, leave after your associate. As for "being accessible" -- dude, it's banking. You have to be there 120%, unless you already make it very explicit that you have something going on / won't have access to blackberry.

Feb 12, 2013

Ghandi..you suck..try doing needless crap at work before you give people grief

PS: no troll club for you

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

Feb 12, 2013

Game Theory I guess. All the SAs could agree not to do it, but if one person breaks the agreement then that person gains and everyone else suffers, so instead everyone does it so they aren't at a disadvantage.

Feb 12, 2013

But what's the advantage? Why is it suddenly more impressive to physically be some place for longer periods of time? Unless you're contributing positively... aren't you just getting in the way and wasting resources?

Feb 12, 2013

Because it looks like you're busy and that you're working hard, appearances matter.

Feb 12, 2013

I agree that being in the office equating to working hard is a ridiculous concept, but at a minimum, new analysts and interns are expected to spend time digging through old models, learning internal systems, and to just be available for random tasks/projects that may come up.

Feb 12, 2013

At a bulge bracket bank, the people who determine your bonus (and in general, form an impression of your diligence) do not know exactly what you have on your plate at any given moment. Rather than one PI like you have, banking analysts worry (whether justifiably or not) about how the associates, VPs, staffers, Directors, MD's, and their shadows are all judging their work ethic.

So it sucks and 99.9% of jr. bankers hate it, but like what @rockwood2011 said, it's basic game theory. Analysts out of sight are analysts are out of mind.

Let's be honest, no one looks over old models and pitches during the majority of their facetime.

Feb 12, 2013

your point is undestood, but (1) this is not efficiency issue and it's not about needing so much time to do the work - junior bankers are usually loaded with work and even if you get the project done earlier, you'll just get more work to do.

(2) analysts, as said before, better be around. and (3) assuming majority does it - one, who doesn't, are forgotten easily.

Feb 12, 2013

deleted

Feb 12, 2013

I was thinking about this too during my IBD internship and OP raises a valid point. Personally, I just became very cynical about the whole charade. Considering how stiff the IBD culture is and how many insecure, anti-intellectual overachievers that inhabits it, I think it's hard to change the face time culture. Spending more hours at the office is pointless; I dont get more shit done just because my face is there a longer time. It's like school work, if you know you will be doing something the entire day then you're in no rush finishing it. Besides, being productive for 18 consecutive hours is just not possible.

Feb 12, 2013

Moved from IBD to mkts - the amount of facetime here is so much less, and no BS is tolerated. Whereas in IBD you could BS your way around deadlines, work, etc., here if you don't know your sht, you will get called out and reamed in front of everyone.

speed boost blaze

Feb 12, 2013

I'll add that face time isn't necessarily always about looking busy for the sake of the higher ups. It's also about just being there for potential work. Unfair or not, the nature of the industry is that it's client-service and more often than not your MDs are busy throughout the day and won't pass down work until later. Which means even if you're done with work early, you can't really leave because you never really know when your staffer will be looking for you.

Feb 12, 2013

It's really just a portable video chat program that's really easy to set up and use.
It's convenient and a little more personal than a phone call.
It's great if you're at a concert or something and want to share the experience with someone but don't want to go through the effort of sending a video

Array

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Feb 12, 2013

First impressions count. I put in a ton of hours when I started and as a result, I was staffed on the best deals and pretty much coasted (or as much as you can coast in banking) for six months. Some of the other analysts will hate your guts, but how you choose to deal with face time is what separates the boys from the men.

I knew quite a few analysts who sat around after midnight, but hey, it's your own life. If you joined a group where you're essentially coerced into being a human meatsack, then don't blame anyone else for neglecting to do your DD.

Feb 12, 2013

The biggest reason analysts spend so much time in the office is that they're usually waiting on other people. You'll send out your first draft at 6 pm to your VP, not knowing what revisions will need to be made. Meanwhile, your VP is out at dinner, then on a run, then hanging out with his family for a bit before finally opening your doc at 9:30 pm. He'll glance over it a bit, make suggestions, and send it back with the expectation of being fully completed the next morning. So while you will have been working on this project until 2 am, you were actually only spending 1/2 of that time working. It's not that analysts are dumb - it's just an inefficient system.

Feb 12, 2013

Suck it up kid. If your analyst is a nice guy and you suspect he might have a pedagocical bone in his body ask him if he could walk you through what he's doing whilst he's doing it, in other words, get him to think out loud if there's no one else around.

Feb 12, 2013

It's been said before, but an internship is just a couple months of your life. Your analyst should be telling you to go home if he isn't going to need you... but you never know. Maybe your sticking around will really help him out if he gets into a pinch. Ask him if there is anything else you can help him with - if he says no, then just tell him you're going to stick around in case something arises. That gives him another opportunity for him to tell you to go home without directly asking to leave.
Again... suck it up. It's only a couple months.

Feb 12, 2013

or see if you can somehow anticipate what the "next steps" might be for your deal team. if you can at least get the groundwork started, they will definitely appreciate your effort and, if the work is any good/useful, mucho bonus points.

i'm not going to say, "you should be lucky, blah blah blah". everyone's been in a similar situation. i'd say just get through the next 5 weeks and try to add as much value as possible. when it comes time to make offers, your efforts will be remembered.

Feb 12, 2013

Maybe it's just me, but I don't mind the down time when I get it. Of course, sometimes I'm just busy as hell which is probably why I can appreciate the time even more. You were probably expecting to be learning new stuff all the time on your internship, but if you're not, don't sweat it -- just keep a good attitude and ask people if you can help them, as opposed to asking if there's anything for you to do. You want to make them feel like you're helping them on something so that they think you're useful as opposed to self-serving. If there's really nothing for you to work on, there are plenty of other ways you can be enhancing your knowledge by browsing the web. Some suggestions include wallstreetoasis.com, analystforum.com, wsj.com, espn.com, urbandictionary.com, and so forth...

Really, some downtime isn't bad -- you'll probably be wishing you had more of it when you start getting tons of crap piled on your desk

Feb 12, 2013

lol...be thankful u have an offer in this economic environment...seriously dog...theres a lot of people who would wish they were in your spot right now..

Feb 12, 2013

Thanks for all the advice guys, I appreciate it. I just feel like, compared to others who have done summers at different banks before me, I am not learning as much and being involved enough. I am perfectly willing to pull 2 all nighters in a row if I am doing something, but hate sitting around not doing anything.

And if I'm not doing anything, at least let me go home. The people I work with know perfectly well I'm not doing sh##, but don't tell me I can go home until 5am or so.

And as for Mack, stfu please. I know these are tough times, but u complain about things sometimes, don't you? Its like me telling you to shut up and be thankful ur alive...

Feb 12, 2013

I can understand - my first week was a bit like that. Although, depending on your bank, try and reach out to people. If the analysts/associates don't need help, maybe ask a VP or something, or even a director.

I was staffed my first week on a research project with an M&A director. Not the most glorious, but better than doing PIBs I suppose. I really wanted to learn M&A modeling as an SA, so I busted my ass for this guy just enough for him to like me. I mentioned that I was interested in his area of expertise, and he just started showing me merger models, along with some merger arb (he used to work at a HF).

I realize that most senior guys are too busy to care about a SA, but if you're polite about it, I don't think you have too much to lose.

Feb 12, 2013

Practice your modeling. Go over completed models and see if you can make them from scratch without looking at the original. While you're at it, memorize your excel shortcuts and learn the many ways you can do things faster with just the keyboard.

Read pitch books and go through presentations. If you are working on deals, make sure you know them inside out.

I guarantee that there are things you can do on your own that will help you expand your knowledge. If you don't understand a certain part of a model, then google it. If google doesn't work, then make a list of questions that you can ask someone later on.

Good luck.

Feb 12, 2013

If you truly cannot and are not helping by staying late, they should be telling you to go home. If not, then that's poor management on their behalf. Be certain that you're making it clear to every one of your minders that you're available if they need help, and if they have nothing to give you, they should send you home. If they don't explicitly do that, then try occupying your time studying up on models, etc...though rooting around through true working models is only so educational without somebody to walk you through.

At the end of the day, though, be glad that you went through the internship at this place, not just because it's a nice resume builder, but because now you know what kind of a culture they have--that's the whole point of an internship. I went through the same thing about 6 years ago. I found a different firm, one that valued my time as much as I valued theirs, and never looked back. Your summer experience is not ubiquitous. Best of luck with it while it lasts!

Feb 12, 2013

in addition to what's already been said, study your industry (or, if you aren't assigned to an industry group, study AN industry, any industry that interests you).

What are the important metrics?
Who are the players? Who are the suppliers? Who are the customers?
What is the economic condition of the industry?
What are the new developments?
Who could be potential strategic buyers? Who could be for sale soon?

If I had more time, I would devote myself to learning about an industry from top to bottom.

Feb 12, 2013

Your still making 1200 a week, right - its a good deal either way then.

Think about the positives, learn a lot of internal knowledge, practice building models, etc. and make the most of it

Feb 12, 2013

...What kind of a question is this...
Any face time at any job is important, IMO.

Feb 12, 2013

when our teacher once told us that there is no such thing as dumb questions... Nahhh

Feb 12, 2013

Thanks for the idiotic responses from Rach and Rusinga who I can only imagine responded from the couch of their parents houses. The OP's question is a logical one. Face time is the amount of time spent in the office J'ing off waiting around for your next assignment or for your superiors to leave to show that you are committed to the job.

For example, IB analyst stints are notorious for this and face time counts a lot in IB where responsiveness to clients is very important. The buyside generally places far less significance on face time because it is driven by market hours (in the case of hedge funds) and deliverables/projects in the case of private equity.

AM is fairly broad and the amount of face time is no doubt shop contingent.

Feb 12, 2013

to the poster: face time is important on wall street, period. especially when you are managing money, especially other peoples money. I don't think there is any getting around that, unless up course you work in AM of a BB.

Feb 12, 2013

you guys are amazing..,,

from my limited and european perspective onfly focusing on graduates:

as far as I know it depends..

junior people in progrmas such as fidelity, schroders m&g etc. (at least in london)
are busy as hell --> 0 face time

on the other hands junior people in BB AM who do not really focus on investment in the beginning but rotate through operations, distribution, marketing etc do have a lot of facetime on very little hours though...

Feb 12, 2013
awp:

junior people in progrmas such as fidelity, schroders m&g etc. (at least in london)
are busy as hell --> 0 face time

I'd have a dissenting opinion here. For junior research people at large fund families, it's all about making yourself known to the higher level people (i.e. portfolio managers, their own managers). Maybe you don't call that face time, but I'd say showing up to PMs with what you have is key to getting them to listen to you and get your promotion after two years.

Feb 12, 2013

Non-BB AM tend to depend on the size of the fund/group. In the small AM shops (at least West Coast), it wasn't face time as much as how quickly you could put together a client presentation or ad hoc project for the managers. If the traders need to figure out a scenario involving specific exposure of the portfolio to their benchmark (Barclays Aggregate, MSCI, etc.) then they'll call on the analyst to give them the answer in an hour so they can get back to the client shortly after. They didn't care if you hang around after they went home but you better make sure your deliverable was perfect. Again, this is for smaller shops so I bet experiences vary.

Feb 12, 2013
WestCoastChimp30:

Non-BB AM tend to depend on the size of the fund/group. In the small AM shops (at least West Coast), it wasn't face time as much as how quickly you could put together a client presentation or ad hoc project for the managers. If the traders need to figure out a scenario involving specific exposure of the portfolio to their benchmark (Barclays Aggregate, MSCI, etc.) then they'll call on the analyst to give them the answer in an hour so they can get back to the client shortly after. They didn't care if you hang around after they went home but you better make sure your deliverable was perfect. Again, this is for smaller shops so I bet experiences vary.

This

Feb 12, 2013

Hello

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http://www.ca.com/files/industryanalystreports/the...
Hope this Helps
Thanks
http://www.fintel.us/

Feb 12, 2013

I don't think there is any getting around that

Feb 12, 2013

Face time is very important where i am because the higher ups are all out all day doing shit or on the phone and don't typically know what needs to be done by the next day (or want to talk to you). Get a lot of my assignments around 5ish, which is right now, fuck....

Feb 12, 2013

If face time didn't exist this site wouldn't exist.... Unless you are that lame that you blog about finance in your free time...

Feb 12, 2013

I have worked at both a large institutional (top 4 UK Fund Manager) and a small investment boutique and there is minimal face time at both. During reporting season you will be busy and therefore will often stay 'late' (this has never been later than 9pm for me). Other than that you do your work, you make you recomendations and you are judged on those and the impact you have made on your team's funds. No one cares if you are still at your desk at 10pm and most of the PM's will be out of the office at 6pm (even where their markets are still open).

The one exception to this would be the AM departments of BB's where you may be expected to work slightly longer hours but even then I doubt it is anywhere near the level of IBD.

Anyway its 17.04 so I'll be leaving for the pub in twenty minutes - my boss left at 2pm today as he does most friday's.

Feb 12, 2013
samoanboy:

I have worked at both a large institutional (top 4 UK Fund Manager) and a small investment boutique and there is minimal face time at both. During reporting season you will be busy and therefore will often stay 'late' (this has never been later than 9pm for me). Other than that you do your work, you make you recomendations and you are judged on those and the impact you have made on your team's funds. No one cares if you are still at your desk at 10pm and most of the PM's will be out of the office at 6pm (even where their markets are still open).

The one exception to this would be the AM departments of BB's where you may be expected to work slightly longer hours but even then I doubt it is anywhere near the level of IBD.

Anyway its 17.04 so I'll be leaving for the pub in twenty minutes - my boss left at 2pm today as he does most friday's.

That sounds like a pretty good job! Do you mind me asking which firm you're currently at? I'm hunting around for a summer internship at a fund for 2011. I've spent 6 months in capital markets at MS this year but would rather go to a fund now. I'd appreciate any info!

Feb 12, 2013

The firm I am currently at is only moderately well known but I would still be recognisable from my posts so I'll keep it anonymous. It's essentially a quasi endowment / family office / charitable trust.

My previous company was one of BlackRock, Fidelity, Threadneedle, Henderson etc

If you want an internship cold call every single fund manager you can find and offer to work for free - someone will have work they need doing and will bite.

Feb 12, 2013

Yes. Face time means you dont leave until the person above you leaves, who doesn't leave until the person above them leaves. Meaning you as an analyst will wait for your associate, who waited for their VP, who waited for their MD, even if they have nothing to do. The idea is that if you don't wait, even if you have nothing to do, something MAY come up that they would want you to do.

Feb 12, 2013

putting in face time never makes you look good, but not putting in face time when something comes up could make you look bad.

Feb 12, 2013

Junior buyside employees are almost completely useless and your job when starting out is to learn as much as possible, as fast as possible. You can't learn if you aren't in the office.

Feb 12, 2013

The answer for almost any buy-side culture question is: it varies wildly, firm by firm. Some want you there until everyone's gone. Some don't care at all, as long as all the work gets done. If curious about a specific firm, you'll have to ask someone there (or name the firm here, but that might make it clear who you are).

Feb 12, 2013

coming in early speaks volumes...

his mama call him clay...i'm call him clay

Feb 12, 2013

I do make sure to be the first one in, but I find it hard to be the last one out when I have already asked for work and not gotten any. I think many times it's a case of the analysts having to do the heavy lifting before handing it over to me. When they do, the work keeps me busy, especially when I have to struggle to understand what I'm looking at.

I don't want to be a pest and continue to ask for stuff. If I asked an associate or VP for work would that piss off the analyst, like I'm going over their head? Would their superior give them shit for not keeping me busy?

"Give me guys that are poor, smart, and hungry. And no feelings." - Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko in "Wall Street"

Feb 12, 2013

Your analyst isnt giving you a ton of work because he doesnt have a ton of work himself (symptomatic of the current environment). I wouldnt necessarily go over your analyst's head in a formal communication (phone/email) but you could casually ask the associate in your group if he needs help with anything. Just be eager and spend your free time reviewing models, drafts of pitch books, memos, CAs, OMs, etc. whatver you can get your hands on. Early on in the summer you really should be the first one in and the last to leave. Impressions are generally built during the first few weeks so set a good example until you have a general idea of the group's expectations for you.

Feb 12, 2013

forgot to add..

should you ever ask for work if you are not busy? lets say i finish up my work at 7pm, should i just go home or should i ask for more work? i asked for more work as an intern, but i dont know if i should do that as a full time analyst.

Feb 12, 2013

Face time varies from group to group. My group claimed to not have any face time (most groups say that) but I've learned that face times does exist and that it does affect your bonus.

Feb 12, 2013

[quote=scottydoesntknowWhat if you do all your work well and you get a long with everybody, but you oppose face time, will you get a lower bonus?[/quote]

Oh my god, this is a good question... yet, also a ridiculous question, seriously.

Face time, no matter how uncomfortable it may be to you and some others, is extremely necessary. Let me emphasize it...

The difference between you going home at 6:00 and someone else going home at 12:00 (even if you were idle most of the time) is that you were "available" and made yourself available. Associates/VP/MDs all notice. The gesture of face time can very well make careers - i.e. the difference on how you're staffed, the exposure you'll get on deals and the amount of personal/professional learning and coaching you'll receive.

Some of the late night hours are the best because that's when most folks kick back to get work done and aren't on the phones and it's a perfect time to get to know people and also the perfect time to ask technical questions etc. Remember, you're not going to be given more complicated work to do unless you are trusted. You're not going to be trusted until people KNOW YOU. Make sure you understand this.

So don't be naive and think that just because you did your "job" that it's all you need to do. I promise you, perhaps 30% of the job is easy breezy technical skills which can be spoon fed to anyone. The remaining 70% is totally relationship dynamics with clients, peers, superiors etc. The soft skills become increasingly important as you advance in IB.

Feb 12, 2013

so read it

Feb 12, 2013

Agreed. This is insight from someone who knows the business.

Feb 12, 2013
prudentinvestor:

only at the office for roughly 10 - 11 hours a day

Face time? That is coming in at 8:30, not getting any meaningful work until 3, finishing that by 5, waiting for revisions until 8, making corrections in 30 minutes, then waiting until 11 to hear that it looks fine...only to be told that they might have more work coming. You stay until 2:30 am.

18 hours, ~3 hours of actual, honest to god work. Another few hours of replying to emails, organizing folders on your desktop, following up on that pitch you assume has been dropped because it has not been mentioned in 3 months...then at least 10 hours of trying to look busy. This has happened to probably everyone in IB.

Have I used "face time" to read entire novels, copying them as PDFs to my computer? Well, at 10 feet away, a 10k or report is almost indistinguishable from a book. Just sayin...

    • 1
Feb 12, 2013
West Coast rainmaker:
prudentinvestor:

only at the office for roughly 10 - 11 hours a day

Have I used "face time" to read entire novels, copying them as PDFs to my computer? Well, at 10 feet away, a 10k or report is almost indistinguishable from a book. Just sayin...

I can't believe I've never thought of this haha

Feb 12, 2013

Goddamn I gotta try that book thing. Where do you find books in PDF form though?

Feb 12, 2013

you'd be surprised by how many books are available just by googling. that's what i do because i don't want to download from the websites. but you know...if there's a will there's a way

Feb 12, 2013

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

Feb 12, 2013

The key to 'face time' is to not make it face time - find ways to be productive to your group, or at the very least, read research reports/relevant news/etc.

There are always long-term projects that 'could' be done - may be as menial as contact lists, comps, updating the standard credentials materials for pitches (tombstones/league tables), but you'll look well if you need them in a jam, and your colleagues will appreciate the extra-effort. Make sure fellow jr people (analysts and associates) are aware of the work you're doing. I was able to add considerable value to my desk as an intern by writing some new macros. This kind of stuff shows initiative.

Feb 12, 2013
marsilni:

Some days I literally do nothing for 8-9 hours straight, then maybe get 0.5-1 hour of acutal work.

Whether you are a software engineer (Office Space) or a banker (American Psycho), this is the case at many "white collar" jobs.

I was busier when I worked as a cashier in my mid-teens. In terms of face time, well, try to put in as much as you can. If things are dead, and you can't bear to sit in your seat for another minute past 7pm - then leave.

Like all things, use good judgment before making any exits. I broke up the monotony of working, sitting and reading various blogs/news by leaving the office or walking down to a floor to see one of my analyst buddies for a few minutes.

If things are quiet, you can offer to grab coffee for your team. At my old bank, there used to be a duane reade. So if I went to grab stuff (ie hand sanitizer or tissues), I would ask my teams and the people working around me if I could pick something up for them (candy, aspirin, etc.) Once a VP asked me to bring him condoms and pick up his prescription (guess what it was for).

Two Pros - they knew where I was and I got out of the office for a few minutes. The NYC "fresh air" did wonders for monkeys like me.

I'm making it up as I go along.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Feb 12, 2013
Cornelius:

Once a VP asked me to bring him condoms and pick up his prescription (guess what it was for).

It must have taken him a long time to become VP...or working as an analyst/associate really does make you age faster lol

Feb 12, 2013

Minimal. If I am at work past 6-7 it is because I have work to do. If things are slow in the middle of the day (ie- waiting to hear back on a draft), I'll go get my hair cut or grab a long lunch or something.

Feb 12, 2013

lol... hilarious!

Feb 12, 2013

Same situation as gomes3pc. We don't have facetime at my bank. If you're done with your work, you go home. Some people take off at 3:00pm if they are done with everything. Worst case scenario is something comes up and you have to go back to the office.

~~~~~~~~~~~
CompBanker

Feb 12, 2013

Wow, thats absurd, 3 PM. I'd kill for that.

I don't have much of a concept of face time, I don't ever recall not having something to do and being at work. Every now and then if I did some work for someone, Ill stick around longer than I need to if they have any questions etc.... that about it.

Like some others have said, there is no face time concept. But depending on what deal teams you work on, everyone is different and some VP/MDs have different expectations.

Feb 12, 2013

If you are tempted to leave early (say around 7 PM), make sure not to do it every day.

I'd say switch on and off each day between an early leave and a late leave just for the sake of it. Bring a book or do something productive with the down time.

BreakingBankers
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

Feb 12, 2013

I've worked at three banks 1 bulge bracket and 2 middle market anda i've never seen senior bankers in the office enough to even warrant face time your there late cause you have work to do and that's bout it if your senior bankers are not traveling 50 percent or more of the time then they arent doing their jobs well

Feb 12, 2013

From talking to people in both New York and London, yes, there is less of an emphasis on face time in London, but it can't hurt to leave after your associate does. You'll be working long hours regardless.

Feb 12, 2013

but in my opinion a lot of face time is unnecessarily self-imposed.

Classic case of perception creating reality.

Certainly there is such a thing as face time, but in my experience people stay when they don't have to/shouldn't.

If you literally have NOTHING else to do at 6 or 8 PM but everybody else is there, maybe you are understaffed and should seek more work.

If it is midnight and your Associate is still working but you are done, go ask whether there is something you can do to help him/her finish up...one of two things will happen, he will either give you some real work, which is good or tell you to go home, which is also good.

Sitting there for no reason is stupid. Seek out work when appropriate at the same time you should also go home when that it is appropriate.

That's my personal opinion and experience only, and I'm sure others would disagree, but I don't think I could sit there and do nothing.

Feb 12, 2013
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