Finding New Jobs

Hey guys- trying to find my next move in my job career. Ended up with a Developer and it really just isn't anything I expected. Lots of sitting around and doing nothing. No training, modeling or anything. Looking to learn more and take on way more responsibility. So I am curious where you guys are looking for jobs, etc

  1. I have been networking hard - applying for jobs online while following up with poster and messaging them. This has been okay, probably a 10-20% rate. I have gotten some interviews off just random applications but that isn't seeming to be my best bet.

  2. I don't have a big alumni group in the RE sector so can't use that to my benefit.

  3. I have looked on select leaders, LinkedIn, Indeed. I have noticed that SL is the only site with relevant jobs. The search platform for LinkedIn and Indeed is very poor and always pulls random jobs that don't even pertain to me. Are there really that little of jobs out there?

At the end of the day I am looking to get into another Development Analyst position, Acquisitions Analyst, or PE/IB position in RE in NYC. I have a pretty good resume and good grades from college.

Please let me know what I can do to get some more interaction/ or if anyone has someone I could even talk to. That would be greatly appreciated. Thanks chimps.

 

Thanks for the responses guys. I have done both. I usually ask couple times a week what I can help on. Have even reached out to our finance guys and still never received anything. Talked to someone high up and made it clear that I was here to learn and nothing has seemed to change.

It is a decent sized firm, but more of a family office, so not much to move. They kind of have one of everyone and people have been here for 10+ years. One of the youngest guys in the office for sure.

 

Most of the time when I ask for work I get the "Ya let me get some stuff together" Now that's great I get 3 things to work on lets say, but those three things are making an excel model averaging costs for these jobs etc, or plotting site plans, or simply just very very very basic things. I have had multiple RE internships and finance internships and know my skills can be much more useful. When speaking to higher up people, I got the response that I would be put on way more projects - this has not happened and I assume won't.

Now with that being said I have been looking hard and that's where I am trying to figure out what's best. Will a company wonder why I only spent 6-7 months somewhere or not care? Also how can I find more opportunities, network etc. Like I mentioned, my alumni network is brutal and I have had opportunities in certain areas but at the end of the day have a specific job role I'd like to be at.

 
NYYCRE:
If you’re not learning and the firm isn’t taking an initiative either to further your career development than yeah I would definitely ramp up the job search.
I agree with this too. It doesn't seem like you're getting much out of it at all, but I don't know how easy it'll be to jump ship with only 6-7 months experience at this firm. I don't know how strong your excel/modeling skills are but you could invest in some of the BIWS/REFM courses if you haven't already done so. Working on that can help pass time and bring you closer to one year and strengthen your resume. What was your experience with your prior internships? Did you get any return offers, or was it not quite what you were interested in?
 

I’m in a nearly identical situation except I’m learning at my job (lending) and have 8-9 months of experience. I’m just ready to move on to acquisitions and want to be in NYC. Any advice on how to make this happen is appreciated, especially since my alumni base in nyc is so small

Array
 

I had almost the exact same experience at my first job. My two big suggestions aren't earth-shattering but they're really important: 1) build every single type of model you have access to on the shared server from scratch. Figure out what drives returns, how sensitive cash flow is to various inputs, and think about what you could add to the model (either in terms of outputs or functionality) to make it better. Do this constantly because it will help you develop the internal calculator that lets you do quick mental math to see if a deal passes the smell taste. 2) Read. Read every Warren Buffett letter, read Sam Zell's biography, read everything related to real estate and investment that you can find. The point being not to be able to regurgitate a bunch of Munger quotes, but rather to create your own point of view. You won't develop as an investor until you figure out what type of investor you are.

Lana? Lannaa???? LANA!!!!!!!!!?!?!?! See my WSO Blog | See my WSO interview
 

Hey guys- months have gone by and I am kinda in the same position. To give more detail, I have worked for a smaller PE RE firm for a few summers interning- based out of Chicago. I have worked an equity research internship at an IB in NYC. I am currently working for a developer and I am just still having very little luck in the job search. Was wondering if anyone had any leads they could potentially help me with or guide me towards. I am open to just chatting and getting advice. I have spoken with some alumni but it doesn't really go anywhere. I am young and eager to continue the learning curve but feel as if I am at a dead end position. If someone was interested in helping I would appreciate that- would welcome PMs.

I am at the point where I just need a shot (like many others) but I know I just need to get my foot in the door and start cranking away.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys!

 

Like I said earlier I’m in the same spot as you. Historical internship path is even similar. I’ve been fortunate to land some interviews at blue chip companies (but not in nyc) and there’s a few things I learned after I fell short in the final rounds.

Even though you don’t like your job or your company etc., you have to learn to put a super positive spin on your job. You have to pretend like it’s been an incredible learning experience, but it’s not the right fit because you want to be in acquisitions/PE/whatever your story is. So you need to actively seek out learning experiences, examples of when you added value, or any story that proves you’ll be a valuable addition to the team. You’ll get to an interview for your dream job and be unprepared if you don’t have these ready. I’m not saying this has to be financial modeling related; it can be anything that is related to the responsibilities of an acquisition analyst. You might have to get really scrappy with this.

Also, how long have you been there? I think it’s a few months less than me (9-10 months)? When people see you applying at the 6 month mark they’re going to assume you haven’t had a great learning experience. In that case, why would they hire someone who has only 6 months of work experience and on top of that didn’t learn much in that time? The year mark is a more realistic goal, so just reach out to people to talk and don’t even mention you’re looking to leave immediately. Then when the year mark rolls around you’ll be ready to make the ask with your contacts. The one exception to this is if you’re looking for IB jobs, in which case it doesn’t matter cause you’re changing careers.

Finally, you need to maintain a good relationship with your superiors. When you’re looking for that third job, the potential employer is going to call your first boss and ask him what you were like. An alum once told me that if you don’t exit gracefully it will come back to bite you in the ass.

Update the thread if you start having any luck. For now I’m coasting and trying to learn as much as possible while I wait for the right job in nyc

One last thing I just remembered. When you’re networking, make it a more long term game. Don’t just email someone, talk to them for 30 minutes and ask them for a referral for an interview. Follow up with them a couple times over the course of several months before you ask any favors. They have to get to know you first before they help out. This is a very different strategy from what I’ve read about interviewing for IB jobs, but I think it’s more fitting for the real estate world

Array
 

I don't mean to come off as a jackass, but having read the thread, here are my two cents.

You may be at your current firm in part to learn, but that isn't why they want you there. They want you there to work. And in my experience, being a PM or analyst or whatever your title is at a development shop isn't just about executing on what your given. It's about proactively adding value across the process. You seem to be focusing on the financial side; why not try jumping into the construction and pre-con side as well? Go to the sites, get your hands in the dirt - you'll be adding some value by keeping an eye on things while also learning. Go to industry meetings whenever possible, network all the time - real estate is as much about who you know as what you know. Once you're in a position to start sourcing deals, or even potential deals, your higher ups will start valuing you more highly.

The further on in your career you get, the less likely it is that you'll get a positive response to saying "I want to learn". Lead with what you have learned. And if you're doing nothing at your current job, it gives you time to explore the nooks and crannies of the business. Honestly, once you know how to underwrite a deal & build a model, there isn't much more to learn there. And there are a LOT more people who can do that, versus folks who can underwrite a deal, but also do a decent physical inspection walkthrough prior to buying, or who can project manage the construction process effectively enough to keep a GC honest.

 

What was your position? Curious because it seems a lot of people on WSO have development as the goal, but I just read a few stories where people are saying it's boring, there's not a lot of work to do.

Curious if you could give more information on the position, would you say that's going to be the same experience as someone who jumps from another role after undergrad? Any background on the company you were at? I'm assuming they aren't doing a lot of projects or they weren't very active...

 
Prospect in Other:
What was your position? Curious because it seems a lot of people on WSO have development as the goal, but I just read a few stories where people are saying it's boring, there's not a lot of work to do.

Just in case you don't get an answer to a post from 2 years ago, I wanted to address two of your comments.

First, I don't think most people in the RE forum are in development, I just think that a lot of the more prolific or knowledgeable posters happen to be. It skews it a little.

Second, development is a lot of things, but I can't imagine it being boring.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

I wonder if we're seeing the combined effects of higher interest rates, lower REIT stock prices, and nearing the top of the CRE market. Two years ago we were doing tons of deals (I work for a REIT developer) and now we sit on our asses and do shit. When there aren't a lot of deals to do and the company isn't growing, people don't get promoted out of their analyst/associate spots (fuck me) and new people aren't hired.

 
Best Response

keep your chin up

grass is greener

put your head down and work hard

network network network

keep at it

other generic phrases...

now that I've lost your attention, here's some real advice. before I got to my current firm, I had the same issue, was at a miserable job at Wells. it would've been easy to give up, to question if your #1 choice was ever going to come through, and then go on a completely different path. it's easy to wonder "maybe I'll be stuck here forever," "maybe this is the best I can get," or something else negative. here's what helped me:

  1. have a plan. if you've been networking and have done all your info interviews, interview practice, career coaching, headhunter interviews, etc., don't deviate. if your plan needs work, enlist help. a goal without a plan is a wish.

  2. put in the work to get the plan done. treat getting a job like your job. did you make all your networking calls? have you been keeping your research on employers organized? have you been practicing your interview questions? hold yourself accountable in whatever way works for you, but don't just expect good things to happen because you send out resumes.

  3. distract yourself. when I was looking for work, after a long day I'd find any excuse to distract myself. if you're not constantly checking your phone but instead having fun with friends or doing something you enjoy, you're looser. if you're loose, you come off better on the phone/in person, perhaps improving your chances when interviews do eventually come.

  4. have a sounding board. you need to have friends, family, SOs that you can just call/meet and blow off steam with. I'm never a fan of complaining, but at the same time you need a release. if it's frustration with the job process, at your current job, whatever, just don't bottle it up forever. have someone you trust that you can talk to. and remember this is a two way street, so be sure you listen to their issues as well.

finally, once you're on the other side, that time period will not seem as long as it feels right now.

 

Thanks for the post.

Yeah, I'm doing my networking calls. Talking tot lots of guys in the RE industry. It's tough to meet them in person however as I am an hour out of NYC which is where I want to be. I have a 2nd round phone interview scheduled next week. Hoping that leads to in person.

It's just frustrating. Such a long process until actually getting hired anywhere. If my luck goes well, I'm still looking at probably not a new job till the new year. Just trying to think positive because I'm so stressed right now.

 

I can certainly attest to this. I think im going insane. Maybe largely has more to do with fact that holidays are coming up and no new start dates for any job would likely be before New Years, so I have basically come to conclusion I am stuck until mid January.

 

I had to quit my last job because I was going insane. Absolute mind numbing BO work (same EXACT thing everyday) that was coming out 60 hours a week with a commute and shitty pay. Been a couple months unemployed but I have been getting some quality interviews. No regrets so far as I was actually becoming insane/depressed.

 

Man, I can attest to this, as a person who got fired twice. Below is what I did:

  1. Never send an email on Friday (especially Friday afternoon)- Chances are.. the person on the other side will not reply until Monday, and you will go crazy during the weekend. Most of all, your email will get buried among other shit that comes to that person over the weekend and may not even get read. To maximize the email exchange count during a week, please send your email on Monday and no later than Wednesday.

  2. Send your email on 10 am - This is to avoid your email getting buried. People have come to work and read emails by 10 am. Last thing you want is not getting a reply and feeling antsy about whether your email is even read.

  3. Keep track of your outgoing email - Maintain a list. If you don't hear back from some companies, cross them out. But replace it by sending emails to more firms.

But you will get pissed and discouraged along the way. I have had so many final round interviews and thought about what to say in my 2-week notice and shit. And then I don't get the offer and feel goddamn shitty about 6 weeks I wasted.

But man, getting a new job is like getting a gf - when you really try hard, it doesn't come. When you kinda let it go and approach rather nonchalant, the offer comes, and you really don't know how to feel.

 

Yeah , I usually send cold emails Tuesday mornings and have had pretty good returns. Lots of guys respond initially then never answer again. I'll usually wait 1.5-2 weeks then email them again. If no answer I just move on to next guy at firm.

My commute get hit 1.5 hrs with traffic and I do the same BS BO stuff everyday. My one year is up in December which is when I can try and switch internally but literally not thing else peaks my interest. I got have a 2nd round phone interview which was scheduled for the 18th. A freakin 1.5 week away. I guess maybe hiring manager is traveling. I'm just trying to keep my chin up. I usually just vent to my GF every morning when I get in to work lol

 

I'm in a similar situation. I don't hate my job, just bored at work and I know I should be doing / learning more and making more money. I have just been casually looking at job postings for a couple of months trying to get a feel for what's out there.

Then last week I came across what seems to be a perfect fit. This new position word give me exposure to a wider array of job duties, more responsibility and it's $15,000 more per year than I'm making now!!! Luckily I had my resume updated and ready to go and could pull the trigger quickly. I had 2 phone interviews last week and am now waiting for a in person interview to be scheduled.

So, keep chugging along. Put the work in and it will eventually pay off for you!!!

 

Enlighten me oh the mighty US citizen, how come it's a problem to get a job in US? there are tons of firms hiring, a boatload of vacancies, unemployment is at historically low levels, salaries in finance are one of the highest across the industry spectrum. Still everyone is btchng how tough it's to get a job. Srsly?

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.
 

Don't be naive.

It's not easy to get a job in specialized industries like finance, real estate, engineering, computer science, etc. Jobs are everywhere in the sense of getting your 35K selling office supplies type job (not putting down salesmen) just sayin.

 

Dude, if you don't live here, then STFU.

Use your logic. High salaries in finance = more demand by applicants = more qualified candidates = more competitions

People working in finance deserve to get paid a lot (yes, I said it) given the amount of hours they work and amount of stress involved. Do you think regular people would work during the Thanksgiving dinner? Hell no, they would tell to their boss to fuck off. In finance, you vent for a while, but suck it up and do it.

You know why? Unlike people on the street protesting about the election results, some value accountability and responsibility.

And unemployment is at historically low levels, you say? Yes, it's a low wage job that led to a stagnant wage growth up until a few months ago. Also, participation is low. Unless you are a lame duck Obama supporter, you don't believe that shit. If you are truly in "Asset Management" as your profile says you do, you shouldn't believe in that shit.

 

Indeed. I've learned over the life of my career that - Good time's don't last forever, albeit neither does the bad. It's amazing how things can change from a year to another, and when it's time to go, it's time to go. The important thing is, to quote Drizzy "But get it while you here boy Cause all that hype don't feel the same next year boy"

 

A cold email with a cover letter and CV? What type of cold e-mail is this, networking?

Tons of advice on forums. Another way to do it, if you find that copy & pasting your cover letter doesn't work, is doing a little research on the person and telling them why you are reaching out.

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
 

Just keep grinding it out and try to look on the positive side. I just had a final round interview for my dream job and now I'm playing the waiting game (refreshing gmail every 10 minutes). It sucks but there is no way around it unless you know the hiring manager or someone at a higher level in the firm.

 

Hopefully job market picks up here now. I can't even get interviews being from as non-target as possible and not knowing anyone in NY (just moved across country). Just graduated w/ math&finance degrees, 3.95 GPA+, already CFA L3 candidate and can't even get interviews for entry level gigs in Research/AM/Banking anything... Also have 6 month @ a BB on my resume, but ya know one of those struggling euro BBs that basically have no front office job openings below director level.

Basically network or die. Don't take my route of trying to be smarter or more technically savvy than others. It doesn't mean shit if you can't get interviews.

 
 

"The end is when you say "fuck it," give up and settle down for some 40 hour/week dead end job and decide that's what you deserve. Only you can decide whether or not you take the easy way out"

This needs to be said more often. Thanks for posting this! :)

 

To create a better CV you need to follow a step by step career advice to start it well. Here is what basically a standard CV must have:

Personal information: It is quite essential to include the full name, email address, contact number and address on CV. Also, ensure that they are mentioned on top of the CV.

A statement about yourself: This gives you a scope to tell about yourself and get the attention of the reader. Use this to show your achievements and share your career aspirations too. The trick is that you need to customize the statement to the job description or role.

Work Experience: While writing about the work history, include experiences relevant to the job at hand. Your CV must show you as the best candidate of the lot. If you have less or no experience, think about skills that might help you in the role.

Education: Mention earlier education and educational institutions with a year of attendance and also write about achievements or grades.

Skills & Qualifications: Write about qualifications from either work experience or education which are related to the role.

Interests & Hobbies: Though not necessary, but if you are a fresher and you have less to mention about the experience, you need to write about your hobby and interests too.

References: It is suggested not to include name and contact of references on CV. Always ask permission from a referee before passing on the details to an employer....read more

http://careerfunda.info/
 

It is a war of attrition dude. If you network hard and pound the pavement you should have something sooner or later. It takes a while when dealing with large companies because of all the HR hurdles they have. Keep working at it and something will break.

 

I agree. I began looking in the fall of my senior year (graduation May 2009) and become full time employed at a bank in Chicago in April...2010. It came through networking and pounding the pavement as well (interning for free and bartending at night for awhile). I still have a few friends that are searching but all they do is lie around all day and send out resumes online (one doesn't even have a part time job). That will not work. Try a staffing agency or start calling/emailing more people to with whom to network, it's the only way to get a decent job that is not purely sales.

 

Word of caution about staffing agencies:

They should only be a SMALL part of your total search effort. I worked with five staffing agencies and only got two solid interviews out of the lot...after i found a job myself.

Just make sure you understand a recent grad gets paid less and their pay for placing you will be less than someone at a higher level. They'll only get around to you when they've got nothing more important to do so enjoy the bottom of the totem pole.

This was awhile ago when things were even shittier and still declining but I actually had to bring opportunities to their attention at some companies they supposedly had good relations with. Pretty pathetic.

 

Man, I was born a few years too early or too late. Every internhsip/job search of mine has been during low hiring periods. Typical wait/search period: 2 months. Remember, all you need is ONE "Yes".

 

After my extensive search (I was picky) the best piece of advice I would have for shortening the length of time needed is be confident. Interviewers see 1000x sweaty, neurotic, and/or nervous kids every day, the ones that act the part tend to get the part. If you look back at some similar threads on this topic someone recommended to ask the following when given your turn to ask questions:

"do you have any concerns about my skill set and ability to perform this job and if so is there anything I can clarify now?"

Every single time I've asked this question I've either:

Not been able to fully address a concern of theirs (bad prep on my part) Moved on to the next round or gotten an offer within 48 hours

Good luck in your search.

 

In for advice...

I started looking for a job around January 2009 and graduated in May 2009. I started working part time (the same job I had in high school) and kept searching until I eventually took a job in November. The job is a dead end job in a field that has nothing to do with finance, and sometimes I feel I may have been better off saying no and kept searching.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to get my way into finance before I waste too much time here.

 

The proxy that seems to be working for recent graduates (May 2009 and recent) is 90 pts. This means .5 for recruiters, .75 for analysts, 1 for associates, 1.75 for VPs, and 3 for MDs. I know the scale seems odd, but its about proportion relative to hiring decision making.

With that said, get relevant experience can and will help in the process. Think, internship at boutique investment bank. For example, my friend is doing an internship at a local investment bank in the Southwest region and the owners are ex GS and JP guys. Good luck

 

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