I hate the living sh*t out of my job as a current salesman. I hate sales with a burning passion. I need out. Please help.

tell me more. are you just now realizing this? while those are all good companies, I have a hard time with an ivy education and great grades you fell into sales by mistake.

Subtle

The jobs you mentioned at the end (corporate strategy, corp dev, operations) might be a good fit for you if you don't want to take the long hours and don't have enough work experience yet for an MBA.

As someone interested in sales, does working in a sales role always imply dumbing down your thoughts to a customer? I would've thought you would at least talk with some people that know equal amounts or more of the product market you're in.

I feel there is a very strong potential that you will be disappointed with any job you take because people don't pay you to be intellectual, they pay you to produce. Fundamentally, that sounds like something you are uncomfortable with.

donquixote2929:

What other work do you recommend REQUIRES and UTILIZES analytical chops, intelligence, booksmarts, and technical acumen? Work that is detailed-oriented? That's not 100% based on soft skills/people skills (as my job is now?)

...engineering never came to mind?

Haha you were that guy on /r/sales.

I thought you were dead set on going to law school.

If you want a transition from tech sales to finance, I think you should definitely consider Master of Finance programs. These programs are made for transitioning early professionals like you. Have you considered that route?

Hey man, I can definitely relate. I work in real estate and most people I've encountered in the industry are extroverts/sales types who aren't as intellectual as people working in, say, HFs/PE firms. Nothing against sales, and I think it's a very valuable skill, but as an introvert with different interests it's hard to really bond with people. I'm fine at faking interest in sports or politics but ultimately don't care for these topics and would much rather talk about geekier things. Thankfully my role doesn't require me to travel much or wine/dine clients like you, but I know I would hate it if I had to.

Most of my closest friends are engineers so ultimately I think working in a tech company is where I want to be. It might be tough given I don't have a technical background (was also garbage at physics) and employers tend to pigeonhole you, but that's the end goal for now.

i'm almost sure OP made this post to brag. " omg i hate my life... i'm 26 making 100k a year working a mega tech firm. I hate sales and i'm not built for this.... but i keep crushing quota year in year out. If i keep up with shitty trajectory i'm on i'm going to be making 200k a year making it rain. I'm really not made for this guys, what should I do. " Op has prove he kills the sales game, claims he hates sales....wants to go into consulting where it's basically a totally a sales game of ideas at the end of the day. OP, to be great in life... you need to realize it's all about sales... and you clearly have a gift for it even if you hate it. Maybe you should slink deeper into your depression and you might make a million dollars a year lol. Or maybe you should change your outlook on life and be blessed that you have the job and opportunity you do right now. You do understand that every single ceo that has come out of IBM has had a sales background. Most people's first role sucks, keep proving you kick ass at your job and eventually more responsibilities will fall on you. Volunteer to help with more jobs, prove that you are leader, and soon you will be managing a staff of medium sized swinging dicks who will make you look even better as a manager. Op... you have a golden gift. embrace it.

lol, I am a software engineer, but I actually want to get into sales since I am really good socially.

Considered becoming a CPA?

I really don't want to be too dismissive to this post... but I can't help but think that you (OP) have not thought twice about the jobs that can offer what you're looking for.

Beginning with you initial goal: banking. Do you realize that for the first 5 years of any standard banking career, you're paid to check for formatting errors on 100 page powerpoint documents, and make photocopies?

And your second consideration is law.... you think you will be paid to be anything more than a footnote reader and fact checker in your first five years? Come on...

The majority of the career paths you listed do have some minute room for intellectual curiosity, but multiple years of mind numbing due diligence and b*itch work that comes before any man gets paid for their independent analysis or creative problem solving.

Frankly, I think I can jump to the conclusion that you're not big on networking, or doing enough research into the jobs you're considering, which you should consider investing more time and effort into. I can't emphasize enough how important that is.

And two words: Asset Management.

It sounds like you should do a 1 year masters, intern while you complete your program and pivot towards a new career. MSF, MSE, or even an MSFE sounds like a good fit for what you would be looking for.

My advice? Save up, get into a top program (like MIT), and get the hell out of there.

Sell your own shit

Come and work for me. I will sponsor you to run your own company with whatever title you want (like Chief Visionary). I will give you staffs and resources. I will give you your peace and never let you do sales. Whatever thing that you produce, I will pay you bare minimum and sell it to someone for at least 10x amount I pay you for in salary.

It is a joke.

Whether you like it or not, to be in a job or have any career progression, you need to be in sales. It doesn't really matter whether you like it or not. The fact that you haven't moved into another role or switched to academic is because 1) such roles does not exist, or 2) academic career - teaching jobs won't pay you that much for it.

You are typical arch type of "I went to a good school and everything else is below me". Come down and see how us normal people try to do a living. If you keep staying up in your Ivy tower, you will be destined to fail in life.

This is also the reason why I have seen a lot of Ivy League kids turned out to be good employees but never as employers/ enterprenuers because they are a bit far off from the reality and don't really like to mingle with people. It is much easier to live comfortable in your own little box; but then the real world is actually outside of that box.

I doubt law school's a good fit for you. It's far from being analytical and intellectually stimulating. I think something like S&T could work really well for you, a lot of working on your own, being able to come up with your own ideas, and getting constant feedback (P&L after all). Your strong background in maths will only help you here. So maybe consider something like MIT or Princeton MFin programs? Pick up some CS and you could break as a quant, Princeton offers some good quantitative courses. Also maybe look up some financial engineering programs which really like math majors and don't necessarily require previous CS knowledge (at least above intro level).

As someone who works in biglaw in one of the top global groups for my specialty, I am telling you now that you are romanticizing it. Lots of brainy types do go into law, however if you think you'll be doing "intellectual work", good luck. You will spend your first few years as an associate slogging it out in the muck on due diligence or doc review depending on transactional/lit focus, and then basically doing more and more complex/high stakes deal/case management as you go up. If you are lucky enough to make partner, it will only be because you are a salesman and can bring in big business.

Generally speaking, I think you romanticize life as a worker in modern capitalism. Nobody gives much of a fuck about your capacity to be academic and thought provoking/creative unless you work in a milieu that demands it - for instance, some types of engineering. Save these exceptions, your brainpower is generally going to be levied against the task of optimizing various processes.

If you are not building a better widget in today's world, you are just helping accomplish some facet of its journey to market. Most often; this involves work that is fairly repetitive, and rewards the ability to win business in a competitive field. If you think BigLaw, MBB, or IB are an exception because they're "preftigious", id be willing to wager that you have never seen the inside of one of these firms.

Maybe it is how you see things. If you change the way you look at things, it might be a bit better. A good example would be this.

During a visit to the NASA space center in 1962, President John F. Kennedy noticed a janitor carrying a broom. He interrupted his tour, walked over to the man and said, "Hi, I'm Jack Kennedy. What are you doing?"

"Well, Mr. President," the janitor responded, "I'm helping put a man on the moon."

To most people, this janitor was just cleaning the building. But in the more mythic, larger story unfolding around him, he was helping to make history.

Here's the point: No matter how large or small your role, you are contributing to the larger story unfolding within your life, your business and your organization.

And when your entire team embraces that type of attitude and belief system, incredible things happen.

Just curious about your comp., but is 100k all in with 1-2 years experience on the upper end for enterprise software sales? Also, what are the directors and VPs comps. at your firm?

Have you tried leveraging your network to get something else within your current company? You could easily get into sales finance or marketing I'd imagine (given your background and experience). Just something worth exploring if you're not going down the law school path because you still might want to wait a bit before going after an MBA.

If you somehow don't have any sort of network after 1.5 years then make one.

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Look into being an actuary. You have to take a ton of exams in math and statistics and everyone who does it comes from a technical background.

Don't sit back like a paper tiger talking shit on your coworkers who seem perfectly content with their lives simply because you are not.

You are not pigeonholed due to any other reason than your shitty attitude. You cannot escape society, and you must "go along to get along" to a certain extent- no matter what job you find.

You are not any better than any of those "animals" who got D's in college. In fact, I would almost bet money that their journey from a less than ideal paper trail to a six figure career has put them in a better place than you.

Good luck with your job search- but it's not the job that is holding you back.

OP I feel like we have similar issues but maybe from an opposing outlook. As you mentioned in college I was very advanced when it came to my studies but from a social standpoint i wanted more. I never joined a fraternity and ultimately ended up connecting with the economics and business clubs but to me they were a snore. From my perspective I'm not looking for intellectual stimulation because in reality some of the smartest people aren't always the coolest people to hang out with. Ive considered going in technology sales for that exact reason because a lot sales people are usually ex athletes or fraternity members that know that social side of life and I'm looking for that social stimulation in a sense. From someone on the outside looking in I would look for something that allows you to have the perfect balance of both social and mental stimulation. Great topic and i wish the best!

Hi OP,

It's been half a year or so since your post but I wanted to reply you because your situation sounds extremely similar to mine, except I had the outcome you wanted and am now looking for an out in sales that makes good money.

You're an introvert, an INTP, went to a good university, did a quantitative course and we're roughly the same age. You are/were stuck in a job that you don't need a degree for and feel like you want to make the switch to a more 'challenging' and 'intellectually stimulating' role (trust me, I used to tell people that I could have done my previous job without a high school degree). You think sales is beneath you (I had an opportunity to switch to sales, but decided to take the more 'intellectually stimulating' role that pays less actually because I looked down on sales - jokes on me).

I was in the same position as you with the same background as you less than a year ago, and successfully made the switch to a more structuring/IB role. The only difference between you and me of the past is that I was from a role that didn't pay as well (think somewhere along the lines of Fintech/marketing in a bank that wasn't directly linked to revenue generation). Some would argue that it's not the most intellectually rewarding role around, but if you think management consultancy is intellectually stimulating (I've done an internship in one before, trust me when I say it's not), then you'll think my role is intellectually stimulating. My desk also has the reputation of hiring the 'smarter' people compared to other desks.

My take? You will hate it. I am now looking for an out in institutional sales. Here's why:

1. You think these roles are intellectually stimulating; it is not. Stuff like Markov rule, time series, etc? You will never use them. Unless you're working in academia, banking and management consulting may hire smart people, but the work done isn't exactly difficult. Just tedious. (On a side note, you may use a bit more of this in a quant's position, but to move up the quant route, you'll need a masters/phd)
2. Expect a lot of mundane work. You will be printing stuff for people, 'reviewing' documents (ie. catching spelling mistakes and formatting mistakes), chasing people for their part of the work, etc.
3. As an intP, you will hate how structured the industry is. But it's that way because regulations are clamping down on everyone. You will not have place for creativity. You are nothing more than a production machine, and the faster you produce, the better.
4. I'm not too sure about law, but be sure that it's something you're looking for. I was very good at maths and sciences and economics as a student, but I absolutely loathe the legal documents I deal with these days. What I'm trying to say is just because you enjoyed and were good at maths and economics doesn't mean you'll feel the same way about law. They're entirely different disciplines.
5. I won't necessarily discount your colleagues. These high eq people are actually the ones who climb highest in any role. Use it to your advantage. You have the brains, now you're learning the street smarts. You'll do amazing when the time comes.

I got my role because I managed to solve a very 'complex' model within 2 days without prior experience. Stayed up for 36 hours straight on some kind of trance state and played around with excel till I fixed it. The hiring desk was so impressed, they fought for me till I got the role. I'm grateful to the people, but miserable with the work. And I am looking to move to sales now.

Just get the money from sales, do the good hours (investment banking may pay you roughly the same absolute amount, but do you think I can do anything outside of work if I'm constantly leaving the office past midnight? I read a joke article on how our cost per hour is as bad as a McDonald's worker. They weren't joking.), and find your passion outside of work. Start a business, learn a new skill, do a part time masters, earn enough to finally quit and do a full time masters... do whatever that satisfy your need for intellectual stimulation, the key is to find a role that pays well and has less hours and pays well.

Hi OP,

I'm actually in a pretty similar situation as you. I just started working in tech sales at one of the top tech companies your mentioned above, but graduated with a degree in engineering from Stanford (3.9 GPA). A lot of the inside sales reps I've run fit into that fratty/sorority kind of category, but I will say that the best field reps I met make enterprise software sales an incredibly intellectual stimulating job.

I actually made the choice to go into sales after graduation, because I wanted to stay in tech and learn something about business without having to do something like banking or consulting because those jobs seemed pretty boring. Even though there are people that can succeed at sales just with hustling, I believe that only gets you so far.

Most of the customers that I speak with, I've never brought up sports or weather or any of that other useless crap. I make the job interesting by asking questions that make me seem credible (despite the fact I'm only 23) and make my prospects curious about what I have to say. Yes sending emails and making cold calls is incredibly boring and could be done by a guy with a high school degree, the skill comes in understanding the ins and outs of the product you sell and their use-cases for different customer segments. It comes in having conversations about customer challenges that you can then use to get meetings with higher level decision makers. I sell products related to analytics and machine learning and have gotten some deals done that started with conversations with data scientists and engineers. Our small talk was talking about the models they deployed and the tradeoffs they've considered. I can tell you most salespeople wouldn't be able to ask those kind of questions or build the kind of credibility to get a Chief Data Officer interested in chatting.

I think the most successful salespeople are those who are naturally curious and just willing to think through the business challenges their prospect have, guide them through their challenges and then actually tailor their solutions for them. Unless your selling a widget like a router, the world of solution selling is pretty intellectually stimulating.

Also $100K overall with commission is good, but the top inside guys I know are making $250K to $300K a year with a $50K base.

donquixote2929:

Hi everyone. I currently work for a top tech company (think IBM/Salesforce/Oracle/CISCO) selling SaaS and high-tech enterprise software. My base salary is $60k and last year, I made around $100k before taxes with commission. I'm 26 years old, and have been working in sales for 1.5 years. My job is in inside sales, so I mostly work from the office and sell via the phone. On the plus, I only work on average around 50 hours a week. I hate my work and don't find it fulfilling at all. If I keep hitting and exceeding my numbers, I could be promoted to a field rep position within a few years, where I could make between $150-200k year (although the hours would go up, and I'd be on the road a lot, although it'd definitely still be less hours than management consulting or BigLaw).

On the downside, while I am quite good at sales, it's A HORRIBLE FIT. It is completely opposite of my personality, my skillset, and my interests. I just did sales because I couldn't find any other work I wanted to actually do. I'm introverted. I don't like talking to people more than I have to. I hate wining and dining clients. I hate smalltalk. I was never the "life of the party." I was always the smart kid in class that others trusted to get the job done, but didn't necessarily want a beer with.

I'm fine with being that guy, I don't want to be a party animal. I don't want to be the "guy who knows everyone" or the "guy who everyone likes," but want to be "the smart serious guy who knows his shit and everyone respects to get the job done." Sales isn't who I am. It's the complete opposite of my personality. I'm an INTP. Sales is one of the worst career choices based on my personality type. The hours aren't bad at all (sometime I work 40 hours a week), but there's an extreme pressure to perform and close that deal right by midnight, which can be very stressful. Also sales is in pretty much no way intellectually stimulating or analytical IN THE LEAST. Sales is all about hustling, all about closing.

To succeed in sales, you have to be very socially adept, being funny, charismatic, outgoing, personable, etc. And despite being in the tech industry, we're taught to "dumb things down" in sales calls and instead do a lot of small talk on sports and other topics to get the ball going. We take clients out to lunch, play golf with them, butter them up and kiss ass, be a smooth sweettalker and showman, use weird tactics like change your caller ID if you're in nevada calling into texas, doing lip service and flattery, and other shit that's annoying. Working this unprestigious unintellectual has been a slow existential rot for me, where I feel I haven't lived up to my potential.

I work in a field where the stakes of what I do are pretty low. I'm more than happy to trade in my easy breezy, relatively lucrative job for a much more stressful and demanding and intellectually rewarding career. I want something intellectually rewarding and satisfying. Why the fuck did I even go to school in the first place?

Also, to succeed, you have to make it all about the customer constantly, and I find that exhausting. I hate doing this. I really miss being in college and just talking to my peers in an analytical and intellectually rigorous way. And while I make a good amount of money, no one really thinks highly of my profession in sales, and it's definitely not considered "prestigious." It's consider the job that people who don't have any other marketable skills go into. It's the job that "smart people don't go into." In fact, my manager even said "smart people don't go into sales." Sales people are very socially adept, but not in the least intellectually curious or analytical.

As someone who went to an ivy league undergrad (cornell) and got a 3.7 GPA in Applied Math and Economics, I really do miss being in an academic and intellectually stimulating environment, and being surrounded by brilliant peers. i failed all my ib interviews from cornell, and then got into sales because i was initially enticed by the good money, and it's good straight out of undergrad.

Half of my fellow sales reps, while making bank and are social animals, and have amazingly high social/emotional intelligence, are high school dropouts. A monkey could go do my job, and it's pretty low-skill all things considered. Just find that high school dropout who partied all day and ditched class, got Fs and Ds while flirting with girls and making friends, and instill him a good work ethic, and he would excel at my job.

As someone who always held myself to high academic standards, and excelled in high school and college, I feel like pretty much my entire schooling was put to waste, and I barely use my brains for my job. My degree seems pretty useless, since I could have eventually gotten the same job via going to community college.

This is what I want: I want to have a job where I actually use my fucking brain. Where I put my technical, logical, and analytical mind to use. Where I work with similarly smart and driven people. Right now, two career paths are opening up: management consulting, and biglaw. However, I have no idea how to get into these fields without further graduate education.

I took the LSAT in February, and got a 171, so I think with my 3.7 GPA, I have a good shot at the t14. If I went to law school, I'd want to pursue BigLaw, and then probably go in-house if I don't make partner track. I think I'd like the academic rigor of law school, and really miss doing analytical work and exercising my brain.

On the other hand, I have no idea if I want to be a lawyer. What I think, more than anything I want, is a job that requires some intellectual labor, and something that I can find fulfilling and where I can put my intelligence to use. Some friends suggested maybe I pursue an MBA to go into management consultant or something instead. But then again, I've never worked 60+ hours consistently, so I don't know if I would hate or regret pursuing a law degree or MBA just for the sake of "prestige" and "doing something intellectual." I took the GMAT and got a 730. I could get a dual JD/MBA too.

But I only have 1.5 years of work experience, so way too early to apply to MBA programs right away. Although I'm thinking about applying to just law school ASAP because I want to get out of the sales hellhole. I've tried applying directly to boutique consulting firms and law firms for paralegal jobs but have gotten rejected all the time BC my sales experience has pigeonholed me into sales positions. I got stuck in a job I hate, and can't escape it, the sales stigma on my resume always exists!! People don't think I have transferable skills to other, more analytical jobs :(

What other work do you recommend REQUIRES and UTILIZES analytical chops, intelligence, booksmarts, and technical acumen? Work that is detailed-oriented? That's not 100% based on soft skills/people skills (as my job is now?) I understand soft/people skills will always be needed, but I just want something way more analytical, since moving from Cornell to sales has been extremely, extremely jarring and I feel miserable. If you have any other job recommendations: such as corporate strategy, corp dev, operations, etc., that may be a good fit for me, please let me know.

Thank you so much!!! Please if you can let me know of a potential path to get to your recommendations. I appreciate it a ton!

JD MBA

Do the Bruce Wasserstein approach. JD/MBA, then M&A law, then business (M&A).

This is so exceptionally similar to my situation in almost every aspect, from the personality traits (introversion), to interests (otaku) and also our career choices.

I chose a Sales position over an Equity Research position at a top BB (GS/MS/JP) because of location, better hours, and better pay. The ironic thing is that I've never tried Sales and that I loved my time in ER because it was quite intellectually challenging and exciting in spite of the regular grunt work. I've went out clubbing for a total of two times in my entire life, and I've probably consumed less alcohol ever than what some of my peers could do in one night. I'm in the exact same position as you in the sense that if I wanted to, no one would ever realize that I was a weeb that would rather spend a Friday night playing video games than going out.

I've yet to start the Sales position, but boy this sounds exactly like what I would post in a few years time...

law - intellectually stimulating? lol ok. Maybe if your on a clerkship... IBD - Cant speak on it but from my knowledge, its all mundane modeling until your a VP or MD, and then guess what...its sales MC - My MC buddy i know, said its not intellectually stimulating. That he was traveling all over the East coast and midwest and sitting in crappy hotels churning out mind numbing models...you do this until your a partner and guess what, you are back in sales

Also you are a SDR. SDR jobs are shit. My suggestion is keep with it until you go into enterprise sales. You would like that. Or switch to being a solutions engineer or something like that.

Business is not about intellectual stimulation...its about profit