Does a Math Minor Help in Recruiting?
It will be pretty tough to schedule in a math major. But if i pursue a math minor would it be even worth it? I mean do interviewers even hold a math minor as really substantive?
Id rather go for another concentration in marketing or accounting to replace the math minor... is this a good idea?
i'll be already concentrating in finance and statistics.
Should I Get a Math Minor?
A minor in mathematics may not be worth risk of a lower GPA. That is the primary risk of choosing math as a minor or double major. The benefits to a minor in mathematics are minimal as well. Any jobs that want a strong quantitative candidate will put little weight in a math minor because your expected to have one of the quant majors regardless. Consequently, a math minor makes little sense unless its a genuine interest of yours. Additionally, a mathematics minor has little application for investment banking.
complementary to finance majors. A strong foundation in accounting will also help you to some degree in the professional world.
useful for quantitative finance, but irrelevant for the majority of IB jobs out there.Accounting is really the language of business, so it's pretty important that you understand it at least at a basic level, not just for IB but basically any job in finance. Programming and higher level math would be
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No one cares what your major is let alone your minor. Pursue something that interests you...its a novel idea, I know.
Its only helpful if you want to go to grad school in Econ/Finance etc, or you REALLY want to get into trading or risk management as a career
useless for IBD
okay thanks everyone. would it be helpful for exit opps after two years of IB. or would by that time, HF, PE, and VC be so far removed after IB that i prolly wouldn't remember all the math stuff anymore..
As mentioned, unless you intend to pursue a quant based trading program or advanced math degree the content of your math minor is useless. IB requires very basic math
on the trading side, a minor would be helpful for a variety of products, not just "quant" trading
any rates, derivatives, structured products
pretty unimportant for IB, PE, VC
I would not entirely disagree with what people have said, but there is some value to a math degree. I majored in math, and while it was completely useless on the job, it definitely gave me a leg up in interviews. Bankers realize that you are better than them at math and brain-tease sparingly. But in terms of what you'd be doing in IBD, the hardest math you'll have to do is addition/subtraction. Leave Cramer-Rao to the quants.
Don't do math just to get a job. trust me. 99% of people who do end up with Cs that ruin their GPA. Don't feel like you have something to prove to the quant majors.
How many extra classes is it to do the math minor being that you are already majoring in Stats?
i need four more classes classes because some classes that count for my stats concentration also count for the math minor.
calculus 2, calculus 3, advanced algebra, and introduction to econometrics.
Finance and stats covers the bases pretty well for both IB and S&T jobs. The math minor would help with S&T recruiting, but probably marginally being that you already are majoring in stats. Marketing is bullshit. I took an international marketing class as a senior to fill up the schedule and it was a complete waste of time. Do the minimum amount of marketing possible. Minor in accounting because a better understanding of accounting will help with ib interviews and with your finance classes.
At my first job out of college, the monetary amount of the offer was based off the Major and the Minor. An econ major with any minor, even if it was basket weaving, was worth about 2k more than an econ major without any type of minor. I didn't know this and so I opted to go for the major Economics with a Concentration in Financial Markets instead of just majoring in Econ and minoring in administrative science. It was the same exact course load, just different titles on the transcript. I thought it would be more marketable, but no one really cared and I ended up making less than everyone else. Concentrations don't matter, minors do. I'd say go have fun your senior year, take a few women's studies classes and boost your gpa.
I don't think you're going to get paid any more based on having a minor or not... especially in IB or other high profile jobs where there is an analyst class/training etc...
Also Calc 2 isn't bad, and personally I loved Calc 3, but many people complain about it... especially them damn premeds who you will be competing with for grades no doubt.
Have heard (at least here) intro to econometrics is cake, and care to mention what advanced algebra is? Is that Abstract Algebra? or Linear? The former may be difficult especially if you're not a math person... it's a very different type of math to anything you may be used to, more proof based. Linear Ag. will be different than calc etc. but not bad at all (if anything easier than Calc 3).
In the end though, do what you like, it won't matter that much. But if you like maths, more power to ya'.
Paradoxical
People associate math with being smart. So while it may not help you on the job, it could go a long way toward proving that you are smart (kind of like 4u2bnvs said). That said, don't do it if you don't want too...you should do it because you enjoy math.
And Paradoxical, you wouldn't need to worry about the premeds for the math classes. Premeds spend too much time bitching about how hard they think it is to memorize shit - its the engineers/math/physics/cs majors you'd need to watch out for :) [I am joking around here, don't take offense if anyone is premed...but they are easily the whiniest people on campus, heh].
Oh - and a minor won't really follow you around, either. Useful for your first job, and maybe you can mention it in interviews and shit, but 10 years down the line "Math minor" won't really mean much...so go for whatever you want, whatever interests you.
I know this is a pretty late reply but I just thought I should throw it out here for anyone with similar questions.
I think the minor in math depends on your major. If you are already doing science major like physics, math minor won't mean as much. But if you're doing Econ, Computer Science, math is a great complementary major!
I did econ major undergrad in UC Berkeley too. But after I finish, I wish I did a technical/science/math major because Economics is very general. You have to go to PhD to really make it worth it. Unless, you're planning on going to graduate school with your philosophy for Law or something like that, I really recommend you minor in Math. The decrease in GPA will be justifiable as math major average GPA will always tend to be lower, at Cal, it's like 2.7. From a recruiter perspective, I would take a person with 3.5 GPA with math minor over 3.8 Economics only. Skills vs just numbers. I had a friend who did economics and math and she got into investment banking.
Sources: math_berkeley_edu/programs/undergraduate/minoring-mathematics
careerdean_com/c/2/incoming-freshmen-if-know-want-have-career-business-it-wise-major-computer-science-also-learn-the-technical-side-or-stick-more-traditional-major-like-economics
Math Major or Minor as a second degree if I want to go into S&T (Originally Posted: 04/23/2007)
I'm currently an econ major, planning to major in math as well. I know that if I major in both econ and math, I'll be viewed as someone who can really handle a bigger workload. At the same rate, if I minor, I can have a much better GPA. I know this is a common/repetitive problem, but which is better: Double major w/ Math and Econ (and decent GPA) or Econ major w/ a math minor (and stellar GPA)? I'm posing this question with the hopes of getting into S&T...
Depends on what area of S&T you're interested in (flow/structured/vanilla/exotic?). I'm a UK student graduating this year in mathematics, and since this subject is my strongest, I naturally chose to pursue a career with derivatives.
I found the broad nature of maths means you can study a wide range of topics (for instance, I've already covered stochastic calculus and a derivation of Black Scholes, and done a unit in time series analysis - useful tools to have in the workplace).
I found at interviews there were a lot of Econ. guys, so having a different skillset may have made me stand out more.
math is a great differentiator to have...i'd probably go with the minor/higher gpa combo.
if math is really difficult for you (ie, it'll negatively impact your GPA), why bother doing it at all?
it's more of a time issue. The math major will require that I spend an enormous amount of time on weekly problem sets, something that I may not be able to fully involve myself in. I could take classes with less of a time-requirement if I minored, and therefore get higher grades.
what school do you go to?
Wharton Math Minor (Originally Posted: 06/08/2009)
Hi. I am at Wharton and just wanted opinions about the options that a math minor could open up if I added it to my finance concentration. I know that math isn't necessary at all in ibanking but would certain positions open up to me if I did math? What about trading? Would the few math/stat courses really make me more competitive for the more quant roles with just a minor(if my GPA is a little lower with the courses)?
So basically... I know that quant work is really done by math geniuses, etc. but would adding a math minor in addition to finance open any doors on Wall Street to me that wouldn't be reachable without the math?
just do double major
for banking they dont care
for trading/hf they would prefer major
of course it will open up the possibility of a few more jobs. whether or not its worth it is debatable.
However, I'm at Penn and I know our math minor is very basic. just take 104/114/240 semesters in calculus and many other quantitative non-math courses can count for the remaining 3 courses (total 6). If you have even a slightly quantitative education at Penn it's hard NOT to fulfill the requirements for our math minor.
Thanks Philosopher. I sent you a PM.
I was wharton and did a math minor. Doing a math major would entail doing dual-degree (which I did and I wouldn't necessarily recommend).
Math minor is really easy - take 2 extra semesters of calc (114 and 240), fixed income (Fnce 235), probability (Stat 430), and you have 5 credits right there (incl 104).
I was able to finish my minor with Econ 220 (econometrics) and Math 420 (adv linear algebra); I don't think they offer math 420 anymore and Econ 220 would only work if you were dual degree. I'd recommend finding a comp sci or opim course to double count, and also taking 241.
The substance of a math minor won't help, but it's a great screening tool, and that's really what you're at penn/wharton to get.
Well I would have to take Math 114, 240, and one more math course (probably linear algebra). Then I could take Stat 430 and 431 instead of Stat 102 and 102. Fnce 235 could count as my last course. So I know it's not a lot of courses but what types of jobs does it open up for me?
The only thing I'm worried about is that these courses will take up a lot of my time, hurting my GPA.
I mean Stat 430-431 is significantly harder than 101-102. And in place of the math courses, I could be taking easier courses if I didn't do the math minor.
Just a side question... can I take Stat 101 (business fundamental), then Stat 430 (business breadth), then Stat 431 (business fundamental in place of 102)?
Don't take 430 with CAI
Stat 430/ESE 301 is a hard class without an intro like Econ 103/Stat 101. To really understand probability at a basic level one needs to know a fair bit of real analysis- i.e. masters in mathematical finance/ PhD in finance requires a background similar to math 360 and possibly 361 on Lebesgue measures. The Capinski book is a great place to start for self study.
I don't go to Penn but J. Michael Steele is a really famous prof and he teaches the core graduate class in stochastic calc, Stat 955 every fall. Also Jonathan Block's Math 530 is excellent and his lecture notes are available on the web.
http://www.math.upenn.edu/~blockj/math530.htm
Math minors don't generally get into real analysis or proof-based courses. In retrospect, I really wish I had majored in math for my BA, instead of econ (I did a finance BS in wharton), because that stuff seems really interesting. For a minor, I think doing the calc sequence up to 241, and then doing a course in Diff Eqs would be ideal.
For Stat, I'd take the 101/102 sequence, and then do 430 as an elective later on. I don't know why 430 can be taken in place of 101 - there's more emphasis on different distributions and bernoulli testing than on basic hypothesis testing. You don't need higher level math for 430 because you work on applications of theory, but it would've been nice to understand the fundamentals. I took it with Mark Low and he was great.
I'd double concentrate in Finance and Stat and then maybe add a math minor if I were you. There is significant overlap between the Stat concentration and math minor so it would only be 2 more math courses for the minor. You can count both Stat 430, which is not all that difficult, especially if you have seen the concepts before, and Math 530 (financial mathematics / stochastic calculus) toward both Stat and Math minors, so you would just need to take 240 and linear algebra or diff equations to finish out the minor. And I think 240 is a pre-req for 530 anyway, but you don't really need it.
isn't always offered, but I would've taken it in a heartbeat if I could've.
nice suggestion zex
Undergrad business degree with math minor ---> M Fin (Originally Posted: 11/12/2009)
I am a sophomore at a top business school in Canada. I have a fairly high gpa and with a concentration in finance. I also plan to get a minor in math. I was wondering what my chances of getting in to a top master of finance or Financial Engineer program in the states? Assuming I lock up some good internships and get a good gre/gmat scores?
You generally need c++ proficiency, math thru multi-variate calc, lineaer algebra, differential equations, calc-based statistics amd occasionally, real analysis. You must also smoke the quant portion of gre or GMAT.
Not every school is the same but you get the idea/ For better mfe info go to the quantnet forums
Would be good to do some research work, look into being a TA, tutor, GSI etc at your college....
I'd say if you plan to go right after ugrad your chances are better at a program housed in math/econ or engineering departments as Haas or Tepper usually require some good work experience (I believe their average entry age is 28-29).
Undergrad business degree with math minor ----> M Fin (Originally Posted: 11/12/2009)
I am a sophomore at a top business school in Canada. I have a fairly high gpa and with a concentration in finance. I also plan to get a minor in math. I was wondering what my chances of getting in to a top master of finance or Financial Engineer program in the states? Assuming I lock up some good internships and get a good gre/gmat scores?
What do you want to do after grad school? I have a master of finance, which I decided to get because a. I didn't learn enough at my crappy state school to actually do anything that would pay more than $40k a year, and b. I couldn't afford to do a two year MBA program. It was a great decision for me, but coming out of a strong business school already you're probably better off working for a few years and getting an MBA. I found that for the most part firms would classify us as a little over qualified for jobs they'd give to kids coming out of undergrad and a little too under qualified for jobs they'd give to someone with an MBA. Everyone in my class that went into IBD went in as analysts, most of the rest went into either equity research or trading. Just my $0.02.
Math minor in one year? (Originally Posted: 03/24/2010)
I'm currently trying to decide whether to get a math minor in my last year at college.
Essentially I want to try and get into a top Masters in Finance and Economics (LSE,Oxford) or Financial Mathematics program (Princeton,Chicago,Berkley) but to do so I would literally have to cram in the pre req math courses like Calc 2, Multi variable Calc, Linear Algebra, Diff equations, etc... Not to mention that I have likely forgotten much of my calculus from my highschool calculus course.
So I was wondering, which of these required math courses would I be able to take ontop of the other? For instance, could I take Calc 2 at the same time as Linear Algebra?
At best I could add in two summer classes as well (which would mean I am actually taking 8 credits more than I need to graduate). So would three semesters be enough?
If you're up for it. You can take all of them with each other. I know someone who did exactly this but he studied his ass off.
I imagine it would be possible, but you should re-assess whether the minor is really worth it.
Okay, I think I may have something set in mind now.
Math minor is six different classes. My AP exam from Highschool allowed me credit for Calc 1.
I figure I can take Calc 2 in a summer community college for two months since it is chearper than doing it through my uni. It is every day for two hours for 7 weeks.
Thats the two introductory classes out of the way by Fall of my last year.
Then once my Fall Uni semester begins Would I be able to take Calc 3 (Diff equations right?) and Linear Algebra at the same time? (I don't need calc 3 knowledge for linear alg. and vice versa right?)
For my last two classes in the spring before graduation I would take Stats+Prob and one other "advanced" level class. However, I'm not sure what class this should be.
Is there a math based course that I haven't satisfied with my above list that would be mandatory/helpful for entrance into the Masters in financial engineering/Mathematics programs?
thanks
Good you made a decision, but this looks like a post more suited to CC. Also, look up quantnet.com if you need info on MFE/Fin Math programs and pre-reqs for them; it's a whole website dedicated to quant education.
Anyways, my 2c's worth: You're schedule looks good. Diff Eq+Linear Algebra are mutually exclusive in material covered, so you're covered there. For the 6th advanced class, take stochastic processes (or whatever it's called at your place).
Math Minor (Originally Posted: 11/17/2011)
I'm an undergrad right now and am trying to decide if it's worth it to continue with the math minor or just drop it. I'm in an upper level math class now and hate it.. would rather just pass/fail than keep going. How important is something like a math minor in a B-school app? I'm going to be working for a BB starting next summer and have a good GPA at a semi-target.
Would it be better to pass/fail and not let it affect my GPA?
Thanks.
Whatever you do, do not mess up your GPA. If the math minor is gonna mess you up and you are gonna pull anything less than a B, drop it or pass/fail since you do not want to take the chance with your GPA. You are already at a semi-target, have a good GPA, and have a BB offer for an internship. The math minor does look better, and distinguishes you from the regular finance majors, and it is worth it if you can do it, however do not do it if your GPA is going to suffer. Good Luck.
I think it does help. Might as well go with it, one class probably won't mess up your gpa too much.
I'd say finish it, but probably rather immaterial in the grand scheme of things as a minor. You already have the job most people are gunning for and you don't like math so what is the real question here?
Every single new analyst in my class has either a double math/econ/stats degree or an engineering degree. A sign of the times.
A sign of the times indeed and an observation I see as well.
I would recommend it if it doesn't kill your GPA. But if you are really worried and really hate it, then no need. Sometimes one class that you hate so much can be a drag on other classes.
I did a math minor and greatly regret it. I stuck it out because I had already done like half of it, and it only got worse. It was boring, ate up time, and lowered my gpa. Ditch that shit like a slampiece that got fat and never look back.
Couldn't agree more. I'm currently a math major and I can relate to your experience. Fortunately, I chose to double major and I've decided to forego mathematics but drop in on some statistics classes.
In general what's the highest level math you need for a math minor? I'm going to ask my adviser about it next time I visit..
whats a minor in your schools? in mines its just calc 1/2, linear algebra, and one more class of your choosing... a joint minor in comp sci math is calc1/2 and two programming classes lol
Mathematical Economics Minor vs. Finance Minor - Currently a sophmore (Originally Posted: 02/08/2012)
Hi all,
I am currently a Sophomore majoring in Accounting and minoring in Finance. I am pursuing a career in asset and investment management or equity research and I wanted to know if it would be a better idea to minor in mathematical economics instead of finance. This way I would pick up more mathematics and statistics courses that would help me with valuation, regression analysis, etc. I am not interested in becoming a Quant; however, do you think that this minor would be more beneficial than a finance minor that is not quantitative heavy? I am at a non-target and currently have a 3.85 overall GPA. Thank you in advance and all constructive comments are appreciated.
Both
Minoring in Math? (Originally Posted: 05/02/2012)
I am debating whether or not it would make since for me to minor in math. Currently, I'm double majoring in finance and economics and minoring in math would only take about 4 or 5 extra courses. Would this be looked highly upon by firms or possibly overlooked? I understand that practically the math likely wouldn't be relevant, but I think it would help to build analytical and logical skills. Just wondering what you guys think..
depends on what position you're going for, and what courses would make up the minor
Watch out for the GPA hit. I was doing statistics and managing all my classes fine before that one came up, and it turns out it only took one extra class to start messing up my other ones.
multivariable calc, diff eq. , linear algebra, real analysis, etc. Maybe a statistics minor would be more useful..
if you're going for something like s&t statistics and/or probability would be better, perhaps something involving algorithms or programming too
I'm doing a financial economics and mathematics double major and am focusing on statistics classes for my upper level mathematics electives. I'm really interested in structuring/trading though.
Do you actually like math?
I'm new to the forum, but various topics in mathematics could always be an asset, such as: - Actuarial Science - Mathematical Finance - Statistics - Computational Math.
Plus the math background can always help in trading. But like Haley said, it depends if you enjoy math.
Every freshman wants to double major these days. Come sophomore year, you go back to a single major. For various reasons.
My point is that you want to minor now. But when you're taking that boring linear algebra class and differential equations course, you may wish you weren't minoring. Only do it if you can commit.
Should I graduate in summer and add a math minor? (Originally Posted: 09/19/2013)
Disclaimer: My story is a little weird but I need to be vague for privacy.
Im an incoming senior at a semi-target school. My major is political science (international relations). Long story how I got into that but it stuck with me even though I don't like it that much. I added an economics minor and hope to go into IB or a similar field. The econ. minor has taught me a lot but I still don't have the same quantitative skills that many people going into banking have. If I bit the bullet I could do the entire math minor (already taken some courses) in 1 year, but I would have to take summer courses. I also have done research for a prof in the econ. dept. for 2 years.
So basically should I stay for the summer or just take some extra classes (i.e. econ and maybe some stats)?
What's this "international of relations"?
Double Major in Econ/Comp Sci and Minor in Mathematics (Originally Posted: 11/16/2013)
Hiya,
To be fair, I bumped into these forums in a extremely random fashion, but they seem to be a nice find. It seems like there are a lot of competent people willing to give advice around here. Therefore, here is the 'long story short' of my case, or at least an attempt to make it short. Feedback will be appreciated!
As the title says, I am going to graduate with Double Major Economics/Computer Science and Minor in Mathematics (which can still come up as a Second Major, instead of Computer Science, speaking in terms of # courses taken). In terms of GPA - I would say it is a complete disaster, but not because of the heavy combination or something. This is just the way I am, I work extremely well under pressure, but am totally not a bookworm and end up screwing Final Exams, etc. However, I have this dilemma in front of me and cannot decide what would be more rational to do, so here are my questions:
1) Would low GPA look bad on this extremely heavy combination, considering that I graduated in 4 years? 2) Is it worth retaking courses to boost the GPA in Economics and leaving both Computer Sci/Mathematics as Minors?
Regarding the second question, I can recall reading somewhere that wherever someone goes over your Transcript it would mostly matter what GPA you had in the harder courses and perhaps retaken ones would look lame in a way (The second one is my own assumption, as it would look lame to me, personally).
Pretty sure that I am missing a lot of stuff, but producing a wall of text is not exactly wise, so feel free to ask and answer shall be granted! :)
P.S. I am currently in the 1st semester of my Junior year.
You still need a 3.0 GPA to get looks from the big banks out of school, IMHO.
I honestly think your best bet could be Google, Microsoft or some tech company. If you're good at coding, and that comes across in the interview, they don't really care what your undergrad GPA is.
Work at Google for two or three years, then move back to a prop shop doing HFT.
BBA with emphasis in Finance and (Financial) Math minor (Originally Posted: 04/09/2015)
Would doing a BBA with a concentration in Finance and a Financial Math minor be useful or would it be redundant? Would recruiters know that the material taught is different?
even if materials are different, they're both labels for quantitative skills. Not bad to have.
Obviously it works more for your favor if your BBA Finance is less quantitative than that; My BSBA was a little like that..
If both are labels for quantitative skills, then wouldn't it be redundant to have both?
Math is diverse. You can lean towards statistics, computer science, economics, physics, infomatics, applied stats..... all of them are loosely speaking, math.
Finance is a little different. it's more inside applied math. thus it is more restricted. If you have a BS Math & BBA, you can leverage your skills as you see fit---e.g. if you want to be a programmer, take the BSMath on top; if you want to work for Fin industry---emphasize BBA; if you want to work for Insurance (e.g. actuary), show them both
While I was attending Ross, my roommate got a math degree from UMich and just took a bunch of econ classes and had no problem getting a job in IB (obviously he got great grades). It's a little less traditional, but certainly workable. Standing out is not always a bad thing - just be prepared for it to work against you in some situations as well.
Is There Any Value in an Applied Mathematics Minor (Originally Posted: 01/23/2016)
I am currently a 3rd year Finance major, who is considering pursuing a minor in applied mathematics. I am contemplating this, because I believe it will give me strong quantitative skills. However, I am afraid the courses required for the minor will be detrimental to my GPA, and may not be useful in the real world.
I have not yet decided which career path I wish to follow, but I am currently interested in becoming a trader. Do any of you think it would be worthwhile to earn this minor, or should I stick to finance to preserve my GPA?
A maths minor will hit your GPA. If you're interested in purely fundamental finance (IB, Consulting, PE), then just stick to the Finance major.
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