My not-so-secrets to success
Mod note (Andy): Throwback Thursday, this post originally went up on 3/2/12.
In the past few months, I've been approached on a few occasions by college-aged folks asking the typical question: how to succeed on the street from a less-than-stellar undergrad background. It's given me the opportunity to look back on my admittedly short career (6ys since grad) and reflect a bit. What have I done right? Where did I trip up? What would I change? Success in business certainly ain't rocket science... If you ask me, anyone with a decent math and writing skills can kill it on the street, regardless of your collegiate background.
That said, here's my take. You can find my general career path if you search posts, but to rehash: went to a city school (think SUNY/CUNY), paid about 5k a year in tuition, graduated with 17k in student loans and started in the back office of a middle market bank. Busted ass and ended up in banking. Hopefully I'll get the VP nod next year. Here's how I did it, in no particular order.
1) keep everything in perspective. Family first- everything else is secondary.. 2) don't get discouraged. There are going to be naysayers along your path. Use them as motivation. Set yourself a goal to prove them wrong. You CAN make it out of ops into banking. You CAN make it into banking from a shitty college. Nothing is impossible. 3) stay focused on your next step. Don't set goals that are too far out... Maybe you'll make parter by the time you're 40, maybe not. Main thing you need to focus on now is making associate. That's all that matters right now- the next step. 4) be diplomatic. Don't shit on people when they piss you off. Don't fire off and send nasty emails - to anyone. Especially not clients. 5) Respect the admins. Appreciate what they do, and show it. Wish them happy birthday- merry Christmas. It's the little things that count, and they can (and will) fuck your career up if you treat them like shit. 6) be genuine, don't be a dick - to anyone. If you do start to succeed and move up the ladder, don't you fucking dare step on anyone to take that next step. Even if you win out at someone else's expense, it'll make you look like shit. 7) never forget where you started, where you came from. Keep your feet firmly planted on the ground. Nobody likes a cocky asshole. 8) be ethical in your business dealings. Enough said. We get a bad enough rap from the media. Don't be the asshole that fucks up bankers public image any more than it already is. 9) have an unquenchable thirst for success. Focus on greatness. Good is not enough. It never will be. 10) think and act like an owner, and one day- you will be. 11) find a mentor that believes in you. Make them want to take a gamble on the kid from the shitty school. Prove it was one of the best personnel decisions they ever made. 12) take personal pride in your work. If you have difficulty doing that, you are probably in the wrong line of work. 13) be ethical - have I said that already? Worth repeating. Be ethical. This is a business that can tempt you do do some stupid shit for short term gain- don't do it. If you do, you may very well ruin your career forever. I have seen it happen before. Get blacklisted on the street, and you're done. 14) be coachable- extremely coachable. 15) keep your chin up (see #2). This is a difficult industry... There may be days, weeks, months, even years that absolutely suck. Stick it out, it'll get better. Your career is in your hands. 16) go where the firm needs you. Even if it's equities in dallas. See #10. 17) when your star starts to rise, you may find yourself with less friends. Fuck em. They were never your friends to begin with - they are your colleagues. 18) commit to your firm. Even if you can make 50% more elsewhere, stick it out if things are moving along title-wise. Firms reward commitment. 19) don't complain. To anyone. Whiners get left in the dust. 20) have a go-getter attitude. Go above and beyond. Don't be shy. No upside to being shy. also no upside to brown nosing, so hit a good balance.
Hopefully this is helpful to some of the younger monkeys out there. I remember when I started out on WSO... 2007, I think? My tag has since changed from analystguerilla, to associateguerilla, to AVPguerilla. And I have every intention of dropping that "A" from my tag at then end of this year.
These not-so-secrets to success are working for me. Try them out- you may be pleasantly surprised.
I did it. So can you. Go.
WINNER!!!
Congrats AVP; a refreshing read.
Thanks for sharing. Couldn't agree more, with everything stated above.
put me in, coach!
always glad to hear about nontargets ballin out.
.
Really enjoyed the list. It is nice to have some reassurance that success has principle
This is for you
Fantastic post.
Great to see another nontarget doing well and debunking the "target or die" myth. This should be posted on my undergraduate business school's website.
Hats off!
if i had any bananas id give you one op, good post.
Michael Jordan was so insanely competitive that he took the pettiest slights as full-on attacks against him. The media who discounted his legacy, the coaches who crafted up defensive schemes to stop him, etc. Even if he didn't really have a legitimate reason to hate someone, he would manufacture one and use it to drive harder.
An alum of my non-target school works in PE now. I reached out to him several months back thinking I could get some help and some referrals. He looked at my resume and told me flat-out that I wouldn't get anywhere in PE. He then told me I should prep my app for bschool now and hope to break in post-MBA with no pre-MBA PE experience.
Although rooted partially in truth because he had worked at a MF before, I was not looking to get into a larger fund that would cut me out strictly because of my GPA and wouldn't give me the chance to state my case. I'll have to hustle my way into a lower MM fund, and that's fine with me. But I hate that guy now. He was just being his blunt, worst-case-scenario self, but I fucking hate him, and I cannot wait to prove him wrong.
Incredible! SB to you sir!
Fantastic post. Most of the list seems to be obvious or to some extent common sense, but so often forgotten.
Reading this every now and then helps a lot.
Loved reading this post! Thank you for taking the time to post it! :D
Great post - lots of good things to keep in mind
I have a good feeling that we went to the same school...great write up.
Haven't seen a legit post for awhile.
wow......for som1 who just landed an offer in trading working an year in BO this is the kind of posts which gives me the impetus needed to keep grinding on....this post just made its way onto my desktop!! worth reading over n over again....thank you.
really good read and all the very best in dropping the 'A' ASAP!
Thanks for the read, definitely needed that.
Life is all about perspective! It's amazing how often we lose sight of that. Thanks for the share and good luck reaching that VP position.
+1 great post!!
+1 ... Hoping to alternate the beginning of my tag as well - Thanks for such an awesome source of encouragement!
good shit
Gonna refer to this in the future - thanks.
Congratulations. This is the type of stuff this site needs more of, tremendous write-up, I hope more people follow these principles.
def need more of this on the site...success stories like this make me keep going as a non-target underclassmen thank you
21) be the drunkest person at any / all company events - you will vault to epic status
So important... No.1 will keep you grounded and focused on life / purpose, No.3 is practical enough to focus your energy.
Great post mate - good luck with that VP promotion
"18) commit to your firm. Even if you can make 50% more elsewhere, stick it out if things are moving along title-wise. Firms reward commitment."
I'd caveat that by saying only be as loyal to your firm as they are to you. You see to many stories about people being screwed when times get bad. Ultimately they do have a business to run...
I'm from Suny/Cuny system as well. I'm printing this and putting it onto my desk. Love!!!
This is great!!!
Hope that A gets dropped real quick.
I think it's great to see these posts once in a while to put things into perspective. We (even I at times) worry about the prestige/exit ops/rank factor far too much to pay attention to the simple things like working where you like, with a team that nurtures your development.
Great post sir!
Thanks alot for this. For the people like me who want to break in, this is a valuable reminder of the tough path we face in front of us, but it's a path that isn't impossible.
Awesome shit. Big fan of #10. Especially on S&T side. MBS days are over folks, the firm's money should be your money. Likewise with #16.
Great practical advice
Thank you for the inspirational and motivational post. I need to find myself a mentor. Would you be willing?
Good stuff. Thanks for the post.
solid post. if that's your actual life philosophy, and you keep to it under delivery pressure, I can see why you are doing well despite being in an industry that is credential-conscious.
the ending parts sum up to be loyal to your firm, which I think is a great default attitude to have. but there are those, especially on the street - see the sociopath post - that will squeeze you dry if you let them. if the point is trade short-term pay for advancement, then yes. but if it is stay loyal although you have better opportunities elsewhere, that can be dumb, although you should definitely count switch costs.
congratulations on your success. but i will say that i don't find your principles nearly as convincing as everybody on this list. unfortunately, life is pretty complicated, and you make it sound like there's a simple formula for getting ahead that everybody at every firm will tell you (head down! work hard! you'll only be judged on the quality of your work!), but sadly, i don't know that it actually works that way in real life.
as for focus on family first...i'll be honest, there aren't many senior bankers with great family lives. that's not to say that they're all divorced and bitter (most aren't), but everybody has missed major milestones in their kids lives and missed large parts of seeing them grow up, as well as endured tension with their spouses (if you're traveling 3-4 days a week it kind of gets tough not to have this happen).
all i'm saying is, the self-congratulation sounds a bit premature. you're an AVP in banking...many people would kill to be in your shoes (as your realize), and others might kill themselves if they were in your shoes (no offense). but life throws you curveballs. i can't tell you how many ex-VPs there are out on the street who got axed in one of the many waves of layoffs right at the point where they had started making real money but without an actual book of business and ended up having to find a completely new career at a 70% pay haircut.
oftentimes, life isn't fair, especially on wall street. so while i agree with everything you've said in terms of actionable items (except firm loyalty, which is only worth having if it's two-ways and it's usually not despite what they'll tell you)...you know, best of luck with the (still very long) climb to the top.
Firm loyalty = corporate propaganda...
Glad that the post resonated with most of you.
That said, it wasn't intended to be a "success 101" manual. Just like you can't teach leadership... you can't teach success. Best I can do is relay core philosophies/principles (don't be a dick, act like an owner, etc.) that worked for me, at my firm. Following these principles might not work for all of you - but I can say with certainty, if you keep your feet grounded, act like an owner, and don't be an asshole about things, the chances that decision makers will like you (a precursor to professional success) are weighed in your favor.
And I absolutely agree with all of those who say firm loyalty has to be a two-way street. In my case, it has. If I ever feel as though I've plateaued in terms of advancement, my position on long-term commitment would change.
xqtrack, not to focus on your post, but since it was the only one with mildly snarky undertones, I will. I should say that I know plenty of senior bankers that seem to have pretty solid family lives... married 20,25,30 years. Banking doesn't preclude having a solid family life unless you let it. As far as the "climb to the top"- thanks for the good wishes, but see #3. I'm not focused on making partner/ceo/chairman. I'm focused on making VP.
AVP...lovely words. Been following the same ethos for years. Barely graduated from a non-target with a 2.0 gpa in fuckall...now pulling in those dollar signs like a fucking vortex.
It wasnt easy. A lot of being-looked down on by all sorts. Started out in backoffice doing basic admin....filing & shit. Just pushed on and beat each goal day by day. Whether it was completing a CFA chapter or making sure my report was the first one submitted to my super.
Keep whipping ass. Love it.
very inspiring post and even comments. Would love more detail on how you moved from your first job
SaucyBacon, id be very interested to know how you got out of the BO and your story. (there is a theme here, guess where i work)
Thanks a bunch, this helps with staying motivated in a demoralizing situation
Great post. Starting my career Monday and these are great nuggets to keep in mind.
Wonderful post.
That is all I have to say.
Actually, I will add something
Voice your opinion, but be careful how you treat other people's opinion. Don't be afraid to share your thoughts, but be respectful when others share theirs, and understand that no one cares about your opinion unless you are an MD/VP or something, so share your opinion in a humble manner.
This is a great post and thank you for keeping it brief and to the point. I really liked the part about trying to be as coachable as possible.
Tank you. Awesome. À silver banana for you. There you go.
Good post except #18...best thing i ever did in my career was leave a job that i could have convinced myself to stay in if I had some antiquated notion of "committing to the firm". My own list would only be 2 lines long: #1 Work herder then everyone else 100% of the time #2 Think differently and never be afraid of questioning consensus ideas about what you can and cant do
So what u r saying is, to boil it down: to be a decent guy, right?
Great advice AVP, appreciate it.
Great, bro.
Suddenly so motivated, great post and read.
AVP, if you ever want to put the finishing touches a non-target success story, you can always hire me as an analyst. Just sayin'.
Great post. Thanks.
PTJ in '90: "The secret to being successful is to have an indefatigable, undying and unquenchable thirst for knowledge & information".
Great post, agree completely.
Agree every point except commitment. Committing to the wrong thing can be catastrophic, yeah talkin' to you Lehman Brothers.
Great post
Always makes the read better when you realize a no one become a someone. Thanks for the post. Currently following in your footsteps so we'll see if I catch up =)
Could not disagree more. I think this is terrible advice. Do you know how much loyalty most financial firms have to their employees? Zero. And that's assuming that these financial firms are living, breathing entities, which they are not - mostly just a collection of scoundrels looking out for themselves. Your salary is a mystery number buried deep within SG&A that would take a treasure hunt to pin down. If you're going to let a firm dictate your course, might as well have a big sign on your face that says, "Hi. My name is Idiot. Nice to meet you. I drink the kool-aid with giant slurpy gulps."
Coming from a similar background, this is excellent advice. It's just as much about your ambition and the way you conduct yourself day-to-day as it is about the name at the top of your degree.
Great post and good to read that you emphasize ethics and diplomacy in banking. Generally, both of them seem to be neglected.
Love it! +1
Excellent advice. Thank you!
Motivation for the day. The benefit about this forum is that people tell it how it is. The more the f-bomb is dropped - the more effective the article is!
Awesome story man. Thanks for sharing it. Tell me when u become VP.
This is a really informative post; THANK YOU!!!
These are good points in and outside of banking.
I agree that these are good points both inside and outside of finance.
great advice.. thanks!
Inspirational.
great post. my question for you is this: i feel as thought i a an honest, hard-working individual (girl) in finance who, no matter what i do, loses. there is so much corporate bulllshit and my personality is such that i can't pretend and suck it up - i fight back. how do you get past that frustration? if you need more details, private message me...i'd love to chat. (or if anyone else relates as well please do not hesitate to reach out)
Excellent post to come back to when feeling lacklustre
Figured I'd drop in with an update. I made VP. Just following the rules.
It works if you work it, so work it - you're worth it.
Congrats man. I remember originally reading this post while lurking as an undergrad. Just re-read it again and it's good stuff.
Make sure to bump it again at Senior VP / Director / MD.
Thanks for the much needed encouragement.
Epic - congratulations. I am also a non-targeter.
Very good advice, thanks
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing!
Worth the read. Thanks.
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