On Campus Recruiting -- The Reality at Targets

Kind of curious about this as well...

My friend at Wharton told me that the majority of kids here usually have some form of legitimate internship done before junior year, such that one will be at a somewhat disadvantage without having some sort of relevant internship, sort of like how at Stern one is pretty much expected to have done an internship to be taken seriously. However he told me that one upside is the sheer quantity of interns that bulge brackets take from Wharton is very high, so it's not like you have to be the absolute #1 to land an internship from those firms - in general it's a pretty high percentage shot in that sense. (considering one puts in the effort)

I'm guessing this is will be different for non-business schools since they probably aren't expected to have an sort of internships before junior year. I also particularly curious for liberal arts schools like Dartmouth and Yale as well.

Keep your GPA up (3.7+ but you can get by with 3.4+ if you network with alum) in a decent major, get to know the classes older than you as they are often making the decisions of who to interview

Yeah I'd expect most of the Wharton/Stern/undergrad business school kids would have some kind of finance experience before junior year, but its pretty difficult to land a good finance internship as a sophomore for non business-school students...does anyone know if this counts against you in any way though?

Anyone with experience with OCR from schools like Columbia, Yale, Dartmouth?

definitely not too late, call up alum working there (any level really) and get them to pass your resume or keep an eye out for it, it will help you a ton. i think at the non-Wharton Ivies finance internships aren't as important, great to have but not absolutely necessary before junior summer. keep your grades up is the best advice i can give

what school do you go to aspiringbankerchick

Columbia, but studying abroad in Europe this semester so haven't been able to make it to any info/networking sessions on campus...starting to get a little worried now...

Columbia is definitely an impressive school but I have a feeling recruiters expect you to have done something since you are after all, within NYC. If you were from Stern and had no internships then I'd say it'd be safe to say that you are at a significant disadvantage (unless you network like a beast which is very probably since they're already in NYC) but because you're from Columbia, I really don't know for sure.

I have a friend who graduated Columbia in 2009, and he did tell me instances where kids from columbia interned during the school year, but I'm not sure to what extent, and how much of the class done so. I'd say networking like a beast and hit up those alumni from Columbia College and CBS. There must millions of them at Wall Street and you're bound to score with at least a couple, considering you put in the effort.

It is unpredictable like college admissions, but most interviewees (if not all) have some sort of finance-related work experience before junior year plus leadership experience. Not to mention, good GPA 3.7+. I don't know how many applicants there are but typically, only 12-24 are selected (except BarCap and BAML; 50 give or take) for the first rounds @ my liberal arts school. So I think occasional networking is not such a bad idea in order to set you apart. Just attend info sessions and talk to MDs if you have time, but no need to aggressively network in my opinion.

You're also more likely to get good traction from cold calls and emails since you are a female. Blast out some emails and ask about the banker, his tasks, how he got to where he is, etc.

My own experience for summer recruiting is that, typically a position will give first round to 12 - 24 people. (for example JPM Research only gave 12 people first round at my school. while JPM IBD gave 24 people.)

But one candidate may take several interviews across banks and positions. I interview with GS for different positions, and for BAML as well.

I went through recruiting at HYPSMW a little over a year ago, and had lots and lots of interviews with that GPA range, good ECs and mediocre experience.

Getting offers is harder. In 2009, the average kid at Wharton got 1.3 offers, and that's from OCR+everything else, down from 2.5 in 2008. I think it's a little better now, but definitely still below those 2008 figures at top targets.

Thanks so much for the replies everyone!

I am definitely not the very aggressive networking type...but looking at these responses it seems like I should start shooting out a couple of emails to alums. Should I request a phone conversation in my email, or just ask questions directly? What would warrant a higher chance of a response?

user_ -- I had no idea that Barcap gave out so many interviews. 50 interviews? How big is your LAC/how many people do you think applied? Do you think Citibank would give out interviews in similar numbers?

Trade4Life -- did you network in order to get those interviews? I'm abroad so I haven't even been able to attend info sessions at all...did you know the junior bankers/speak to them before you got your first rounds?

If you're concerned about missing OCR opportunities, cold email people to explain your situation; you're geographically removed and you haven't had the opportunity to attend events before the winter resume drop deadlines like everyone else. If you get some favorable responses and you know you're getting back before the holidays, ask for informational interviews or site visits in January so you can get some face-time and network a bit before the resume drops.

its going to be tough without finance experience, this is why going to a target is not THAT much of an advantage as ppl on here make it out to be. literally hundreds of VERY QUALIFIED, brilliant, driven ivy league students with high GPAs in econ,engineering,etc. , leadership experience, and past finance experience drop their resume out of which about 20 are chosen for first rounds - you do that math. you simply dont see that type of competition anywhere else. of those 20 maybe 5 are invited to superdays. so yes - you are at a disadvantage if you do not have any finance experience , that is specifically how you demonstrate your interest in the field and is one of what I like to think are the 3 pillars to landing a good SA gig (1) high gpa in econ/finance/business/engineering, 2) leadership in EC's, 3) finance experience).

pm me if you would like more information - this is all based on my personal experiences.

also: switch over the financial economics major COlumbia just introduced and take corporate finance and financial accounting next semester if you have not already. list it under relevant coursework. everybody else likely will have tkaen these courses already.

What is the best approach for networking, especially for sales and trading with alumns? Should you be friendly and casual and lead with talks about subjects other than jobs/markets or should you just jump right in and ask them some meaningful questions about the markets?

After establishing a connection at a recruiting event, how do you go about keeping in touch through e-mail? How do you approach the first e-mail? Do you lead off with a question or merely ask to stay in touch and remind them of who you are? Or do you ask them to have a phone conversation?

Any great networking stories?

I go to a liberal arts Ivy, and in my experience, you definitely do not need to have finance experience to land a first-round interview for OCR. I agree with the above posters that finance internships will obviously help, but re: OP's question, you are definitely in the running even without the finance experience. Given the lack of finance experience, it'd be better to have a higher GPA (closer to 3.8 in the range you mentioned) and high SATs, but the corporate work experience you have is a plus.

These firms are looking for three things: smarts, hard work, and interest. You demonstrate the first through your GPA and SATs, the second through ECs and internships, and the third with networking (and finance internships, if you have them). In the short term, you can improve the way you sell yourself with the second and third parts--you can paint your work experience in as specific and accomplishment-based ways as possible, and you can network the hell out of alums.

After you get the first-round, start concentrating on your "story" and other interview stuff. The resume doesn't count for as much at that point. Good luck!

dont limit yourself to BB and dont limit yourself to IBD if you have no finance work experience.

I'm a little confused here. I spoke with some friends from Columbia and they told me practically everyone who applies gets first round interviews. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Best approach is to make sure at least one person remembers your name and likes you. The resume selection process is very arbitrary.

Most people who apply will get some kind of interview though, its all a numbers game...its rare to get rejected by all 9 of the BBs that are recruiting on campus...

you have to be a golden boy to be selected by all of them, but a connection at a firm will get you a first round. beyond that is up to you

target recruiting is definitely not what this board makes it out to be, at least in this market. i'm at a non hyp ivy, and this year only 3 BB (gs, ms, can't remember the third) did OCR, and i think maybe a couple of the others did resume drops. non-targets have their work cut out for them...

At a non-Ivy target and every single BB firm did resume drops on campus with only DB not hosting OCR. It differs from school to school.

DB trading didn't come to my school wahhhh

^ of course it differs. and being in NY makes a huge difference, as it costs a firm virtually 0 to make the trip. nonethless, i know many kids with gs and other top tier offers.

DB seems to be VERY picky in terms of what schools they consider target and what schools they do OCR at. They are a strong firm and have only gotten stronger after the financial crisis(relatively) so I don't think they have limited recruiting resources.

DB comes to Dartmouth. For some reason, though, CS/UBS/Citi (I think) didn't come to campus this year, which seems odd to me, given that GS/MS/JPM all came...

If anything, I found that non-OCR is much better having good chances at OCR recruiting. I managed to get several superdays through just applying directly to company websites while I got rejected by almost every single BB for OCR (West Coast target). The fact that only 10% get preselected for interviews means that it is a very subjective process to determine who is qualified. With the 200 who apply, at least the top 50 have more or less similar ranges of GPA and experience. And without actually talking to the candidates, the process is pretty much just based on the whim of whoever is looking through piles of resumes. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure alumni of various organizations and business fraternities have alumni at these BBs that weed out potential candidates just by merit of being non-affiliated to the groups they were in during college. Thus, the reality is that only the top 5% of applicants will even get a chance to speak to an interviewer, a very unfair process.

I mean, DB did partner with several cocurricular groups at Stern for diversity recruiting, but they're not hosting OCR that I know of. I'll be abroad this spring though, so I don't know who exactly is on campus during normal recruiting, I did accelerated in the fall.

I think OCR is much more competitive if you're not as qualified as your peers in your school. However, if you are very competitive relatively, then OCR definitely is more advantageous. OCR guarantees that your resume will at least have a pair of eyes on them, if only for a second, where as online apps often never get looked at.

The whole recruiting process seems to pit target kids against kids from their own school/region, seeing as many targets have very different recruiting schedules. My theory is that the BBs have a quota for each school