PE Recruiting Failure

Hey guys - I regretted posting this for a while but now that it is mid April, I figured the time has come. I am a first year Analyst at a Euro BB M&A group in NY and recently struck out at PE recruiting.

I got a decent amount of interviews given that my group places pretty well each year, but not as many as I would have imagined (5 total). I am a non-target and my SAT scores are pretty low - these are two hurdles I was not aware of going into recruiting after already being in banking but I digress... I got dinged from the first two first rounds I had but then after that I felt very prepared going forward. For the next three processes (two large upper MM shops and one mid sized MM) I made it all the way to the final round where you meet partners / senior people, etc.

I did very well in all of these interviews but got cut right at the end for each of them. Each fund noted that it had nothing to do with my fit responses or technical skills, rather they all said the process is subjective and is very random at that stage in the interview process and they do not have any negative feedback to give me. So the obvious translation for someone like me would mean they dont want a non-target guy like myself coming from a lower tier M&A team (almost all of the team at each of these shops were from better schools and banks). I cannot think of any other reason this would happen consistenly and in the same fashion. Nonetheless the point is I made it very far in these processes and got dinged each time and now I am left back at square one.

What sort of advice do you have for someone like myself? I would love to give recruiting another go at some point, but to be honest I am a bit burned out at the moment after going through all of those interviews just to get dinged at the end, 3 consecutive times! Most of these were 3+ rounds at a few hours each. Either way, recruiting is basically over and there is nothing worthwhile going around at this time.

I want to focus more on my job here, especially given I couldnt fully do that during recruiting although I made out pretty well and got ranked high and had a great review despite having to ditch in the middle of the day several times. Is it possible to salvage my recruiting efforts and give this another go during the recruiting season in 2016 / 2017? How will they react knowing I already particpated in the process this year? And is it possible to interview at a fund that you made it to the final round with again at a later time?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

Yes being a non target is a massive hurdle for PE recruiting, exponentially more so than banking recruiting. I thought the same as you about the groups. I was wrong. Pedigree matters so much in PE - look at any reputable fund's website. They love to showoff all their Associate's alma maters.

Most of the headhunters make you fill out an assessment asking what your SAT scores were because most funds have a minimim threshold of a certain # (forget the exact score but the HHs were telling me about it and I was below it). Also just an FYI its not THAT low, but not good by the standards of the industry. Most MFs wont even look at you if you are a non target (think Carlyle / Apollo). If you dont meet this minimum criteria, the already difficult process is even more difficult.

 

There's just a lot of randomness and noise in the process. One of the analysts in my group was able to secure an offer from an MF even though he was from a non-target. He was one of the best analysts and our group has pretty good placement, but I'm sure that even he still faced some resistance because of his background.

 

What was your total comp. last year... If its more than 150K, then you don't have much to complain about. But I understand... the dream is to be the big money baller, and you might be depressed right now because you think you won't be that guy. Now you know the deal about these interviews. So get ready for next year and try again!

 

Honestly though, I think WSO has a misconstrued idea of non-target. While some schools in the top 25 may be non-targets, they are recognized on a national level. When I think of non-target, I'm talking about schools in the latter half of the rankings. Schools that are 50 - 100 or even lower that most people might not have heard of unless you are in the region that it is located.

 

lol yea different definitions: targets for me are "core" schools where the massive majority of banks recruit. Each BB has an internal list of top 8-10 schools where most interns will come from, and where the BB conducts OCR interviews.

Schools in the Top 15-25 range will have a few banks recruit on-campus, and then most pass. You'll see these schools (especially in the South/TX) maybe become "regional targets:" UT Austin recruits very well for energy banking, but badly for NYC. UC Berkeley recruits well for West Coast Tech, but horribly for the East Coast.

Anything outside of Top 25 is pure non-target on my book: little to no IBs recruiting on-campus, and most of SA positions are acquired through "the hustle." I mentioned in another thread that I transferred from a "non-target" (Top 15-25) to a "top-target:" the gap in IB recruitment is massive, and I would never have landed my current position had I not transferred.

 

My question is why did you only get 5 interviews? How many head hunters were you working with? Did you hit it off with any of them? They will push for candidates that they like to get them into more first rounds.

 

Only 5 interviews seems very light if you are as you describe yourself. Could be helpful to sit down for a while and think back on your various processes and see what you could've done better or what may have gone wrong. Maybe you didn't as well as you thought you did?

Being a non-target with a not so great SAT score is never the reason someone didn't get an offer. That being said, it's not the end of the world and I've seen a growing trend of strong MM PE funds hiring 2nd year analysts over 1st year analysts (though you'll have to stay a 3rd year).

 

Get a god dam job. Al. You've got a negative attitude - that's what's stopping you.

  • 5 interviews isn't that many
  • You can still get a job at another MM PE. It's definitely not over but if you're set on MF then you can recruit as a 2nd year... no problem
  • the non-target reason is a really bad excuse. I personally know multiple guys from non-target groups / very small middle market firms that you've never even seen in the league tables that also came from schools in the SEC (not Vandy). These kids weren't even in NYC and went to BX as Associates so yeah, I fundamentally disagree here
  • "All equal, shops may be bias towards ivy but not necessarily because of the name but more of a connection. you didn't make it to the finish line after meeting senior people likely because you failed to connect with them on a personal level." You need to do 2 things at this stage - show you have maturity / not be a JA so you embarrass them / the fund and demonstrate that you can make the partners money.
 
JackandDaniels:

Get a god dam job. Al. You've got a negative attitude - that's what's stopping you.

* 5 interviews isn't that many
* You can still get a job at another MM PE. It's definitely not over but if you're set on MF then you can recruit as a 2nd year... no problem
* the non-target reason is a really bad excuse. I personally know multiple guys from non-target groups / very small middle market firms that you've never even seen in the league tables that also came from schools in the SEC (not Vandy). These kids weren't even in NYC and went to BX as Associates so yeah, I fundamentally disagree here
* "All equal, shops may be bias towards ivy but not necessarily because of the name but more of a connection. you didn't make it to the finish line after meeting senior people likely because you failed to connect with them on a personal level." You need to do 2 things at this stage - show you have maturity / not be a JA so you embarrass them / the fund and demonstrate that you can make the partners money.

You are not making partners money at the associate level in PE. You just need to demonstrate you are not an idiot, can socialize, and capable of doing the work. QBing a deal is VP level.

 

Not talking about QBing or sourcing a deal. Still takes a certain degree of aptitude / work ethic to want to crank through all those CIMs and not screw things up. Effectively don't be a burden or cost the partners a deal. Partners are using the juniors as a resource to do the grunt work so they can make their decisions... still consider that making $. Then again, I dont work in PE.

 
Whiskey5:
JackandDaniels:

Get a god dam job. Al. You've got a negative attitude - that's what's stopping you.* 5 interviews isn't that many* You can still get a job at another MM PE. It's definitely not over but if you're set on MF then you can recruit as a 2nd year... no problem* the non-target reason is a really bad excuse. I personally know multiple guys from non-target groups / very small middle market firms that you've never even seen in the league tables that also came from schools in the SEC (not Vandy). These kids weren't even in NYC and went to BX as Associates so yeah, I fundamentally disagree here* "All equal, shops may be bias towards ivy but not necessarily because of the name but more of a connection. you didn't make it to the finish line after meeting senior people likely because you failed to connect with them on a personal level." You need to do 2 things at this stage - show you have maturity / not be a JA so you embarrass them / the fund and demonstrate that you can make the partners money.

You are not making partners money at the associate level in PE. You just need to demonstrate you are not an idiot, can socialize, and capable of doing the work. QBing a deal is VP level.

Thinking slow today, what does QB stand for here? Quarterback?

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 

Thanks for the comments. To clarify, I was not using the non target point as an excuse or a justification. My only point is that I was not aware of how bad it actually is in the process. The Headhunters said it directly to my face and others in the same boat as myself. They said it will be challenging to break into a top MM shop (which is what I targeted mainly) with my background from a non target (not even top 50 FYI) and a "lower" tier BB. Again not an excuse, just a very surprising fact that caught a lot of people like myself off guard.

Regarding only getting five interviews, I believe it was a product of the above. I hit it off very well with almost all of the HHs, however they only sent me a handful of opportunities in comparison to my ivy league colleagues who sit next to me. Most of the non targets in my bank all had this same problem.

Its very difficult to explain an interview situation over the internet, so I will point out I thought I performed exceptionally well and didnt think I could have done much better with the exception of the first couple first rounds I had. My plan is to give it another shot as a 2nd year.

Curious to hear of any other Analysts who have had this issue this year / in the past. Thanks

 

I realized this the second I got drilled by them on my SAT scores and undergrad choice, despite having a 3.9 GPA.... I networked to get 2 of those 5 interviews, one of which being the best fund of any I interviewed at and is a borderline MF.

So yes, I did this. But that doesnt get rid of their trust / preference for target school guys. I was baffled when I actually spent two hours one night ticking through every website / investment team section of reputable MM shops. Non-target penetration is so much lower than you guys think. Basically 1 of them per fund, and most dont even have 1 depending on if you think Gtown / NYU etc are "non targets"...

PE funds are too risk adverse in their own human capital selection. Networking can get you interviews, but it doesnt change the fact that most funds dont want to go against the status quo in their Associate hiring and take a risk on a super non target guy when their current model works out very well for them. They are very blunt about this too, trust me.

 
Zosa:

Thanks for the comments. To clarify, I was not using the non target point as an excuse or a justification. My only point is that I was not aware of how bad it actually is in the process. The Headhunters said it directly to my face and others in the same boat as myself. They said it will be challenging to break into a top MM shop (which is what I targeted mainly) with my background from a non target (not even top 50 FYI) and a "lower" tier BB. Again not an excuse, just a very surprising fact that caught a lot of people like myself off guard.

Regarding only getting five interviews, I believe it was a product of the above. I hit it off very well with almost all of the HHs, however they only sent me a handful of opportunities in comparison to my ivy league colleagues who sit next to me. Most of the non targets in my bank all had this same problem.

Its very difficult to explain an interview situation over the internet, so I will point out I thought I performed exceptionally well and didnt think I could have done much better with the exception of the first couple first rounds I had. My plan is to give it another shot as a 2nd year.

Curious to hear of any other Analysts who have had this issue this year / in the past. Thanks

Another option is lateral to GS/MS then recruit from there.

 

I think you are focusing your problems in the wrong places. I have met numerous folks from various firms, if they do not know you or have no one in the firm that can vouch for you, it makes it harder for you to get in. 50-60% of the time with job openings, most companies/firms will ask referrals first before considering outside (remember, we are all replaceable).

You are fine the way you are. You demonstrated experience working in the industry, competent, and can help the firm make some cash(?) at the end of the day. You can go through ten thousand If's and Questions as to why you did not make it, but at the end of the day they felt you were not a fit, that is all.

I come from a non-target, and it took about two years of haggling and pestering them for them to possibly consider me a potential candidate given my background (local PE firm here in San Diego, CA).

Just keep your head up high, and keep rolling like you are. Once you find a firm that they think you are a shoe-in for, you're golden. It could be worse, right? You made it where others did not.

 

How often do you bring up your SAT/Undergrad stuff? If you harp on that and try to apologize for it instead of selling yourself as the product of your experiences in a positive way, it shows a lack of confidence. Don't apologize for your undergrad, it is what it is just own it. If it was as big of a deal as you're making it out to be you wouldn't have gotten a foot through the door. Headhunters probably threw it in your face to see how you would respond, and if you were apologetic and looked like a dog that lost its bone, they probably crossed some firms off the list who they knew would do the same thing.

 
Goldman Snacks:

How often do you bring up your SAT/Undergrad stuff? If you harp on that and try to apologize for it instead of selling yourself as the product of your experiences in a positive way, it shows a lack of confidence. Don't apologize for your undergrad, it is what it is just own it. If it was as big of a deal as you're making it out to be you wouldn't have gotten a foot through the door.

This. Tell the story and own your experience. If you got an interview, that means you're doing something right. Now, I do think you'll probably have to try a little harder to connect on a personal level given what appears to be a dissimilar background than the people you're interviewing with and it sucks but that's life. However, like many other posters have said, I think you should reflect on your actual performance throughout the process and focus on the "fit" part of the interview before going back into the fray. You should definitely keep pushing forward though. You still have time.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
 

Great advice from both posters above. Part of headhunters' purpose is to act as the line of first defense for firms. So folks like HSP, etc are going to ask you the hard questions, your undergrad being one of them, and see how you react/answer. Again, the key is to focus on what differentiates you and how your unique blend of experience makes you a better candidate than anyone else. In other words, they're trying to ascertain if you can navigate a challenge by addressing a perceived weak point in your background that they know their clients will ask about. So, at the end of the day it's not really that you have a weakness (since your already good enough to be in the room), but how you adress it that matters.

As for your comments on non-targets in PE, despite the fact that yes it is a prestige-oriented industry and a lot of the kids went to targets, my personal experience has been that there are way more non-target kids in PE than you would think. Either way, this is something that you can't change, so build around it and look forwards not backwards (knowing it's been done before and frequently).

 
Best Response

Sorry for the rough go, I've been there. Look, the fact of the matter is -- stating the obvious -- is that these PE seats are SO tough to get. I interviewed at 11-12 funds before I landed an offer. Couple of thoughts how to navigate your situation:

1) Try again next year -- you're deal IQ will be sharper and you'll have the deal-sheet to back it up. It kind of blows me away that funds recruit kids who are barely 6 months on the job. When I was in IBD, 1st years were pretty much useless until they hit the 1year mark. You may be excluded from some of the funds you recruited with this year in 2017, but doing additional deals may get you in with other funds that put a higher premium on experience vs. pedigree.

2) Retake the SAT -- This may sound ridiculous, and even more of a pain in the ass when you're getting hammered at work; but if you really feel this stat is holding you back in recruiting why not try it. There's nothing preventing anyone at any age from taking the SAT. HH's always ask what your scores are, not when you took it so it doesn't matter.

3) Do your own recruiting -- The HH shops that handle the big annual processes are kind of a joke. They've got a specific placement matrix and if you don't exactly fit into their boxes, you're SOL. They seldom have first hand experience doing what you do every day as an analyst and therefore can't and won't convey what type of candidate you are effectively to their clients. Look for off-cycle associate openings during the year on job boards, reach out to folks at funds your interested in who went to your school or were in your group previously for informal coffee chats.

4) Be more tactical with your recruiting -- Being in an M&A group, it's easy to get the sense that you're a good fit for any generalist fund. Although this can be true, most funds with generalist strategy's will be more active in one or a few specific industries. Have you completed a few deals in chemicals space? Check in with your staffer to do more and go after funds that are also active in the space. That makes your background a more logical fit than the 1st year from Wharton who's just getting on his / hers first deal.

Good luck.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

Vast majority of what you said seems spot on, but I would never counsel a current analyst to retake the SAT just to break into PE. I have a very, very hard time believing that's the most effective thing an analyst could put their time toward if that's the goal.

For the person with the GMAT question - they're asking for your SAT, not your GMAT. Why would you take the GMAT if the SAT scores are the problem?

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 

Certainly can't disagree it'd be silly to retake the SAT again instead of pursuing the GMAT. Made the SAT suggestion because the OP seemed fixated on that that one particular data point was a key detriment to him landing an offer, no clue if that's actually the case or not, nor do I particularly care. Point was, if you know there's a problem, identify a solution and fix it.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

The GMAT is still a very reputable standardized test similar to the SAT, wouldn't someone who has a high GMAT get the same respect as someone who has a high SAT? I took the SAT while I was a stupid high school kid, not an excuse for my poor results but I feel like they shouldn't hold me back if I can prove that I can do well on a standardized exam.

 

If you've got a FT offer locked down coming out of this summer and you're senior year schedule is pretty light then I'd absolutely try to take it and utilize some of the free resources available from your school.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

And OP, I don't know if HF's interest you (doing both PE and HF recruiting is a bad idea, as it signals you're only interested in the paycheck) but those don't recruit formally and more on an as needed basis. So if you wanted a back-up plan, you could go that route. I think you need 10-20 interviews to land a decent PE/HF associate gig.

There's always corp dev, ER, AM if that stuff interests you. And you always have the option of becoming an IB associate, avoiding business school, and the chance to become an MD by 32 (assuming you graduated at 22)... So on the bright side you should have a solid career making good money with little risk of unemployment going forward.

 

I hear you re being dejected and disappointed about not getting in the first time around. It's an exhaustive process and sucks to emerge from it empty handed -- happened to me as well.

I didn't break in my first try, was bummed for a while after that, and then that following summer did a couple things. I analyzed my process to see where I was weak/needed to improve and did, and then knocked down HH's doors and set up informational meetings/calls w/ funds I was interested in to get in front of them (this last point cannot be emphasized enough). Needless to say the next cycle I ended up with 3x the amount of interviews and a few offers at my target firms (didn't work in IB either) -- so it can be done...Need to put your mind to it though and have your story, technicals, deals, modeling, why PE, etc all air-tight at the right time. As you're now aware, you need to be essentially perfect in every interview with a firm to get the final nod given the intensity of the competition and the sheer # of kids applying. As far as interviewing w/ firms that already DK'd you, not sure how much luck you'll have w/ that (I tried and didn't get much traction given the level of "taint" they were already associating w/ my candidacy)

In some ways actually, i think you're at an advantage on the second go-round b/c your competing against 1st years who have been on the job for ~5 months and don't have the same level of deal experience or recruiting prep under their belts as you. So to the extent you can differentiate yourself and create some competitive tension around your candidacy between a couple firms -- it'll go a long way. good luck.

 

This is solid advice, nice post. Reaching out and getting someone on a deal team to chat with you outside a formal recruiting process, as stated, can be a huge leg up / advantage. You'll hopefully develop a baseline relationship and connect on a personal level (i.e. they like you as a person, not just as another deal hand) and if / when you do get into their recruiting cycle you may be able to reach back out to this individual and get some back-channel feedback on how you're doing and where you can improve going into later rounds. It's how I got my job.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

Jesus Christ do not retake the SAT. Focus on networking, deal experience and tightening up your story. You are not getting dinged because your test scores were too low. You're already getting docked because of your school but that can be overcome. More likely is you didn't impress in your meetings so that combined with your background was an easy ding. If you went in and crushed the interview it would be much harder for people to turn you down regardless of your school or test scores.

 

100% do not re-take the SAT. That's not a good use of your time for interview prep. If I were interviewing a kid and heard a 23 year old re-took the SAT, I'd probably ding him for that alone. Focus on networking, informational interviews. The best time to network is when you don't need anything. If you start 2 months before the job, you're not networking, you're just asking for a job.

The SAT factor can definitely be mitigated. Highlight your strengths and don't dwell on your weaknesses. At the end of the day, no rational partner is going to pick candidate B over you if he liked you more and your SATs were 200 pts lower. It just doesn't matter what you did at 17.

 

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