Quitting major Investment Bank in NYC after 2 months...?

IBDQuitter's picture
Rank: Monkey | 54

Hi guys, I am in a weird situation and would love to hear out some opinions.
Two months ago, I started working as and IBD analyst at one of the top 3 IB banks in their NYC HQ. However, I managed to get (what I believe is) a better job opportunity for me in the meantime and now I am thinking about quitting the IB to join the other company. Honestly, the work I have now is not so bad, but I feel like it's not for me in the long term (the hours, culture, some parts of the work...), whether the other opportunity feels quite perfect. If I had it three months ago I would choose it over my current job.
What would you do in my situation? Quit the job just after two months, possibly closing my doors there forever/upsetting people to pursue better opportunity, or would you stick with it for at least a year before considering leaving? Any comments or suggestions welcome!

Comments (98)

Jul 22, 2017

Is your other job also IBD?

Jul 26, 2017

No it's not, it's a tech startup offering pretty interesting work - different than the IB type.

Array
Jul 26, 2017

Do what makes you happy. As long as you have enough money to pay the bills and support your family what else matters.

    • 2
Best Response
Jul 22, 2017

It's impossible to answer without knowing anymore details, but going off what you said, I think you'd be making a mistake. You're three months into your professional career that might span over 40 years. You don't know what a perfect position is. All you know that is that IB is tough, and three months in, you're in the toughest part of IB.

Again, impossible to answer without more clarity, but I'd stick it out. I consider my two years in IB time well spent from a professional perspective and would do it again knowing what I know now.

    • 11
Jul 26, 2017

My other opportunity is in a very promising technological startup. They raised $100M+ in first year of existence and already employ around 100 people, and do super interesting stuff. I'd be doing business development and strategy there.
The thing is I feel like I don't enjoy the IBD environment and culture, compared to e.g. the startup culture. Moneywise it's pretty much the same, but the startup offers more interesting work, casual open flat culture, better hours and potential to get into top management much sooner than b*tching couple of year in IBD before going into PE or similar opportunity.

Array
    • 2
    • 1
Learn More

7,548 questions across 469 investment banks. The WSO Investment Banking Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to start your career on Wall Street. Technical, Behavioral and Networking Courses + 2 Bonus Modules. Learn more.

Jul 22, 2017

I understand where you're coming from, but think of it this way: Your reason for wanting to take this strategy role is essentially that it is a better opportunity than your present one. The thing is, however, that you have only been in your present role for three months, and those three months are easily the absolute most difficult and worst time of your current role. It'd be like giving up on learning to ride a bicycle because you fell off the first time.

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck. I would seriously stay in IB, though. The vast majority of analysts take a minimum of six months to really get up to speed. I would stay at least another three months, if not up until it's been a year.

    • 9
Jul 25, 2017

deleted

Jul 25, 2017

What's the comp at the startup?

Go to the startup

Jul 25, 2017

I'll give my own story here - I interned at a similar place (top 3 IB) the summer after my junior year and received an offer to return, but over my 10 weeks there I realized it was definitely not the place for me. I actually didn't hate the culture and really liked the people I worked with, but the work was very much not for me. For full time I'm going to somewhere tech related, but still within finance. Personally, I feel very good about my decision almost a full year later but it was because of the work. My advice is if you find the work rewarding and stimulating, stay--also I'm sure you have, but do as much research as you can about the types of jobs you could be looking at after 2 years (PE, HF, b-school, etc.) and stay if you think you could enjoy the work there. If not, I would say move. For me, the type of work I was doing was very important and I did not find the work there stimulating at all, so I'm glad I changed my career path.

    • 3
Jul 22, 2017

As others said, this is not enough information. What's the other opp?

Overall, if you are just out of school and this is your first job - follow this rule of thumb: don't be an idiot. If you are a top 3 IB doing M&A work - this opp is garbage compared to those you'll have access to in 12-18 months.

    • 4
Jul 23, 2017

I would follow the advisement of @Sil and stay the course. You worked hard and got into a position a very selected few are able to get in. From a presumable standpoint, the startup is more riskier to take on as well.

You will do very well from staying at least 2 years in, from what I have read about Wall St and IBD. However, it is your life. Do what you think is best, but from reading your response and introduction, I believe your mind is made up already.

My mentor told me once, "Attitude is everything."

Jul 23, 2017

Just wanted to say I 100% agree with this as well. Jumping ship too early is frowned upon to some extent, and if this other firm tanks you will have a hard time lateraling back into IBD. If you are confident that IBD is not for you, then the other offer may be worth considering. @Sil said it perfectly.

Jul 23, 2017

With all else said, be sure to consider if your new role will be a sustainable one into the near future. Don't want you jumping ship only for your startup to run out of funding.

Good luck!

Jul 23, 2017

Lots of startups raise a lot of money, and lots of startups fail.

If they already employ ~100 people there's no real upside for you. You're not going to get meaningful equity, and even if you did get 1% (not gonna happen), it's subject to vesting, so in reality you wouldn't see most of it for a long time (2+ years).

You said the role would be strategy? You'll probably still be making slides and being someone's bitch. But instead of getting exposure to many companies and possibly many industries, you'll be working for one yet-to-be-really successful company, with limited upside.

In 2 years you'll have your pick of strategy / biz dev roles at up-and-coming startups, in addition to PE, VC, growth equity and some hedge funds.

Don't be an idiot.

    • 6
Jul 25, 2017

Not in tech but this response make a lot of sense to me. A lot of startups fail, regardless of how much money they've raised, and as mentioned you're not going to get any meaningful upside. You'll be a wage earner at a risky endeavour where your compensation will quickly be dwarfed by an equivalent track in IB. Even if you think a startup is for you, you're better off spending a couple of years in IBD where you can hone your skills a little bit and be a bit more valuable to a startup which would allow you to secure a better role.

    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

Well I am not interested in it because I could make big bucks from owning equity. I am looking at it purely from the perspective of work enjoyability, work-life balance, culture, and longer term prospects (i.e. spending couple years in IB just to move to PE or VS isn't that appealing to me compared to possibly taking this startup to another level and see it grow).

Array
    • 1
Jul 23, 2017

You're not going to be taking anything to the next level except maybe a pitchbook as a second-year analyst. What "strategy" do you think you can contribute as a fresh-faced grad?

You've already been drinking it - go finish your gallon of luke-warm koolaid. But in 2 years when you look back on your foolishness and prepare to go to business school with hopes to enter banking as an associate, DO NOT say that the good people of WSO didn't warn you.

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 23, 2017

I would consider taking the other role if you are sure you want to be in tech and/or strategy long term. If you know you have no desire to do IB or M&A long term, jumping probably won't hurt you, although I'm sure you'd be able to get similar offers. If the driving force is really just wanting a more relaxed culture, I'd stick it out a little longer in IB then go do something similar to the other opp. I'd probably only jump if it's the perfect opportunity / your dream job.

Jul 23, 2017

Sounds like a good role, a lot of people would be envious of. If it's locked up, I would take it. Normally, I'd try to leave on equitable terms by looking to have a conversation with my seniors. Only thing is, you might just have barely even spoken to them up to this point. But they're bankers, they have an endless pool of talent and thick skin. They'll be alright. If they curse you to hell, smile and say you appreciate them. There's a story about Dean Acheson moving on from Undersecretary at the Treasury under the Roosevelt administration, where he quit over a dispute. Roosevelt was fuming but later claimed that Acheson had quit like a gentleman. That's my peace (to quit in a repsectful way is all I owe anyone) if I ever quit a job I don't think is a good fit. The bank would quit you easily if it was the other way around.

    • 2
Jul 23, 2017

Pretty big mistake to leave now. A startup with 100 employees doesn't offer any upside. All of their equity is with the founders and initial few employees plus the investors that gouged their eyes out for seed money and early rounds. You'll be getting paid absolute shit probably too. They'll give you a small amount of potentially worthless equity and pay you a back office salary. The work you'll be doing won't be that interesting probably either - again, a 100 person startup is at the stage where new low-level hires aren't really innovating to a particular extent.

So, unless you're just not cut out for IB at all - in which case, by all means quit - then the smart move is to wait out your 2-3 years, make more money and get the great experience and exposure and connections. When you leave you'll have opportunities to move to VC firms where you have the opportunity to engage with startups and potentially move to one and actually have the opportunity to make some money and make a difference down the road.

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

That's a pretty harsh evaluation of the situation given that you don't know what the startup is, what are they offering, how's the compensation, why I want to go there (hint, it's not to get tons of equity and hope I'll become billionaire after their IPO). 100 people might already seem like a lot, but you need to consider that this includes the top management, HR, and all other supporting functions, so I'd still be among first 10 employees focusing on strategy and business dev.

Array
Jul 23, 2017
IBDQuitter:

Hi guys, I am in a weird situation and would love to hear out some opinions.
Two months ago, I started working as and IBD analyst at one of the top 3 IB banks in their NYC HQ. However, I managed to get (what I believe is) a better job opportunity for me in the meantime and now I am thinking about quitting the IB to join the other company. Honestly, the work I have now is not so bad, but I feel like it's not for me in the long term (the hours, culture, some parts of the work...), whether the other opportunity feels quite perfect. If I had it three months ago I would choose it over my current job.
What would you do in my situation? Quit the job just after two months, possibly closing my doors there forever/upsetting people to pursue better opportunity, or would you stick with it for at least a year before considering leaving? Any comments or suggestions welcome!

Grass is greener syndrome. I distinctly recall a guy at one pre-MBA event I attended talking about how his first six months sucked horribly to where he wanted to quit. However, he decided to stick through until he got his stub bonus. By the time that rolled around he'd gotten much more quick and effective at his tasks to where he wasn't spending anywhere near as much time in the office.

    • 2
    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

Let me just add/repeat that I'd taken the second job over the IBD one if I had the opportunity 3 months ago. I had an expectation about IB and what the work and hours and culture are going to be about and knew straight ahead it's probably not for me in the long term. And that expectation just came to be true. It's not that I wanted to go into IB, now I am there, it's too much work, so I want to quit. Back then it was just the best opportunity I had - and it's not that bad when I am there, I just see what I was expecting and that is I do not enjoy the whole experience as much, and believe going into the startup with all its pros and cons would suit me better.
It really is not jumping the ship just because things are hard :)

Array
    • 1
Jul 23, 2017

Keep in mind that everyone on here is biased towards IBD. The truth is that, outside of this forum, people at all levels are choosing tech over Wall Street, precisely for the reasons you mentioned. I don't think there is a right answer because each path leads you down two very different roads. In situations like this, you should choose what you are most passionate about and what you can see yourself doing over the long term. If it is tech, the three months you have spent in IBD is just sunk cost and you should move on asap.

    • 7
Jul 23, 2017

Are you a diversity hire? If so, everyone with negative thoughts about any of the diversity initiatives will use you as a negative example and you risk ruining that channel for everyone else after you.

If not, no one will care about you leaving. If you've been there 2 months, have you even finished training?

    • 1
Jul 26, 2017

White straight male with no disability, not veteran, not even U.S. citizen, no green card, so pretty much the opposite of diversity hire :) I don't think I'd ruing anyone else's chances.

Array
Jul 25, 2017
reformed:

Are you a diversity hire? If so, everyone with negative thoughts about any of the diversity initiatives will use you as a negative example and you risk ruining that channel for everyone else after you.

If not, no one will care about you leaving. If you've been there 2 months, have you even finished training?

wtf are you? doesnt matter what he/she/it/them/etc. are, no one will give a shit in 2 weeks.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Jul 23, 2017
WalMartShopper:
reformed:

Are you a diversity hire? If so, everyone with negative thoughts about any of the diversity initiatives will use you as a negative example and you risk ruining that channel for everyone else after you.

If not, no one will care about you leaving. If you've been there 2 months, have you even finished training?

wtf are you? doesnt matter what he/she/it/them/etc. are, no one will give a shit in 2 weeks.

Not true at all.
If you get into the bank through a diversity program (e.g., MLT, SEO, etc.) and quit after a few months, it makes the program look bad. If enough people do it, less people are taken from the program going forward.
If you happen to be a minority but go through normal recruiting, you are correct that no one will care after 2 weeks.

    • 1
Learn More

7,548 questions across 469 investment banks. The WSO Investment Banking Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to start your career on Wall Street. Technical, Behavioral and Networking Courses + 2 Bonus Modules. Learn more.

Jul 23, 2017

I'd stay where you are.
- I don't know where this company is that has offered you a job, but with rare exceptions, startups don't pay as much as IBs do, and if you're going to be in San Francisco, the cut in compensation will sting / you will definitely notice it
- The fact that there's $100 million already into this company, and 100+ employees, means that you're unlikely to make big dollars from an exit. What kind of equity grant are they offering you?
- It's really tough to rise to a C level job in technology if you are not an engineer or a salesperson, and from your description, you're not going to be either of those things
- You will have equally good, and more likely better, opportunities, when you're done with your three years
- As annoying as IB is, you are actually learning a lot. In three years you'll have great corporate finance skills, and if you pay attention to what's going on around you, pretty good instincts for strategy too. You'll draw on those for the rest of your career

Jul 26, 2017

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas. However, let me tell you my perspective:
- The pay is even bit better than the one where I am now. Maybe over time IBD will pay better, but in the next 3 years, I am not missing out much. Moreover, I am not in it just for the pay.
- Again, I do not want to switch to wait for an exit and cash in big. I want to change because of better work environment, culture, hours, work-life balance, and most importantly, the kind of work I'd be doing.
- Maybe, you can also say that it's pretty hard to become MD/Partner in IB or transfer to PE/VS after three years.
- Very likely, but why work 3 years somewhere where you don't feel like it, when you can go immediately pursue better opp?
- Also, agreed, you are learning a lot, but it's not like I won't learn anything at the startup. Strategy wise, I'd learn more at the startup and maybe having great corporate finance skills isn't really what I strive for (that's the boring part).

Anyway, thanks a lot! Even arguments for staying help me make my decision by seeing that the reasons why I should stay in IB are exactly those I am not looking for in my career.

Array
    • 3
Jul 26, 2017
IBDQuitter:

Compensation is at the same level as in IBD, probably lower bonuses, but I don't really care about making 20-50K less in a year when I can have a job I enjoy more, have better work-life balance, culture, and work on something that makes sense to me :)

IBDQuitter:

- The pay is even bit better than the one where I am now. Maybe over time IBD will pay better, but in the next 3 years, I am not missing out much. Moreover, I am not in it just for the pay.

Now which one is it? :)

Anyways:

Why wouldn't you stick it out for 2-3 years and then recruit for biz dev roles at the best startups (or even better, alphabet etc)? Also, it sounds a bit like you just "fell" into IB without knowing what it entailed. Did you not do an internship beforehand?

Jul 24, 2017

This is a personal decision, and I can't really comment more without knowing the startup. But to everyone to who says he'll have exit ops in VC IF he stays in IBD - this is BAD advice. The OP will have a MUCH better chance of transitioning to VC after 3-4 years as a successful operator at a startup. VC doesn't work like PE and they don't hang around recruiting bankers - it's all luck, timing, and who you know, and 9 times out of 10 they'd rather hire an associate who's like, been through banking training but has worked at a startup than someone who wasted 3 years making pitchbooks. They want you to know the basic skills, but more IB is not better.

    • 4
Jul 24, 2017

Just from the standpoint of the employer, no matter what industry, it looks bad on your resume when you leave a company after a couple months. Your next potential employer will see this and wonder hmm how do I know this person wont just do the same thing at my company and jump ship after a couple months if they don't like the work? I know this from speaking with owners of companies. They like to see at least a year of experience in one place. Bare bare minimum I'd say stay at least 6 months just to help your future prospects elsewhere. Just something to consider.

Aside from this, a startup is a startup, there's no guarantee that company will be around long. Be aware of that. Its risky to think it could be a place you stay at for years to come.

If IBD was as you expected than I dont know why you chose it in the first place as your best option. Shouldnt have been surprised the work hours were long since thats just a given. I would think hours could be long at a startup too.

Jul 24, 2017

Dude, go for it. Honestly, worst that happens is the startup goes bust and instead of putting the IB position on your resume you put a start up position on there. If the startup blows up you will be sitting pretty. I would exit the IBD and talk to your management about it first and let them know you have the offer. Put in a minimum of two weeks notice and go for it. Do not burn any bridges on exit and hope that your performance has been good enough to warrant recommendations going forward.

    • 3
Jul 24, 2017

Just do it. As an Associate, really wouldn't want you working for me, no offense. The position sounds awesome. Don't spend two more years in IBD wondering "what if" and resenting your entire Analyst experience, there are enough people that actually want to be here.

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

Seems like you've already made up your mind seeing your username and the "Other" in your status. The longer you stay in IBD the more you will be stigmatized by your techie colleagues later on.

Jul 25, 2017

You can always join a better startup as you build career in IBD.

The reverse is impossible.

Wise thing to do is to work at least 2 years before joining startup space. 100 people for 100m raised doesnt give you any upside.

Jul 25, 2017

You can always join a better startup as you build career in IBD.

The reverse is impossible.

Wise thing to do is to work at least 2 years before joining startup space. 100 people for 100m raised doesnt give you any upside.

Jul 25, 2017

You can always join a better startup as you build career in IBD.

The reverse is impossible.

Wise thing to do is to work at least 2 years before joining startup space. 100 people for 100m raised doesnt give you any upside.

Jul 25, 2017

We want a 6 month post-jump update when you do quit, don't leave us hanging!

    • 3
Jul 25, 2017

If the economy turned quickly, you'd likely be on your butt on the street in a day so don't feel overly loyal to the IB.

The real question you should be asking is which role will help you develop the skills that you believe are needed for your long term career goals? IB has a well defined set of skills that are valuable to a variety of future employers. Will the startup allow you to build similar or different but equally valuable skills that better align with your goals?

The primary objective of your early career should be to build tangible skills and increase your career options as no one in their early/mid-20s really knows what they want to do for the next 40 years.

Best of luck!

Jul 26, 2017

That's one of the main reasons I like the other opportunity over IB so much - as I think I don't really enjoy the typical IB stuff and would much more work on what the startup is offering, ergo building skills in business development and strategy in technological field. I believe those skills might be even more valuable than the IB ones, as there's tons of people taking the standard path of spending couple of years in IB, all developing pretty much the same skill-set and then they strive to get into VC or PE or some mid-management positions in other companies.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Array
Aug 11, 2017
TechBanking:

If the economy turned quickly, you'd likely be on your butt on the street in a day so don't feel overly loyal to the IB.

The real question you should be asking is which role will help you develop the skills that you believe are needed for your long term career goals? IB has a well defined set of skills that are valuable to a variety of future employers. Will the startup allow you to build similar or different but equally valuable skills that better align with your goals?

The primary objective of your early career should be to build tangible skills and increase your career options as no one in their early/mid-20s really knows what they want to do for the next 40 years.

Best of luck!

This is very good advice.

Jul 25, 2017

I would go for it -- you can always grab a first year analyst position (or associate, if you hit reset w/ an MBA) later in life. You're (I assume) young without many obligations.

Jul 25, 2017

Send me a picture of your face so I can forward it to plastic surgeons and get started on talented mr. ripley-ing your ass. I can just take over from here and you can work on the start-up.

On a real note- There are thousands of qualified candidates from target and non-target schools that would kill to take your place. You need to nut up and keep trudging through. You will be accepted anywhere you apply after you are done. Toughen up. It's like you are quitting a SEAL team after finally graduating and getting selected.

Jul 25, 2017

What an awful piece of advice sans logic. There are thousands of people that want to be analysts, so analysts should never quit even if they have an offer to work somewhere else that they would prefer? That doesn't make sense.

"You need to nut up and keep trudging through."
Yo, this guy is asking for advice, not a lecture!!!! Quit being bitter.

Quitting after 3 months as an IB analyst is nothing like leaving a SEAL team, you nob.

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

The seal team comment was meant to highlight the elite education and training you get as a banker. You can apply that kind of analytical and entrepreneurial thinking in just about any other industry or job.

Yea, I totally believe you should stick it out. The kid made a commitment. Besides, it gets better eventually even if it is hell at first.

Lastly: You consider "nut up and trudge through" a lecture? Seriously? What sports did you play as a kid? Badminton? Pillow fighting?

Jul 26, 2017

TBH dude, you're seriously overrating the complexity of work that IB analysts do and the amount of "elite education and training" that analysts get. You can read Rosenbaum & Pearl's book on Investment Banking, followed by Barbarians at the Gate, and you'd get just as much "elite education and training".
People do banking for the exit opps, period. If the dude already knows that tech is a better fit for him than high finance, why should he not go down that route?

    • 2
Jul 25, 2017

I am more so suggesting how it will be perceived by your next employer. Though I still think there is merit to exposure at smaller shops. I totally get that it's mainly bitch work. I am currently completing an industry report by-myself right now. I just hoped that if I made the jump to a better or bigger bank- there'd be a noticeable difference in my exposure to modeling and technical work. I suppose that was an overestimation, but it doesn't hurt to be hopeful. Thanks for the insight.

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

You came to a dominant IBD blog, ofc most of the people will recommend you to stay. I would take the startup option, but it all depends on what you value. The advice of staying in IBD is purely $$$ and prestige base. Life balance and company culture are better priorities imo.

    • 2
Jul 25, 2017

What about the learning opportunity? I could probably make more money going into B2B sales on SaaS and Cloud Infrastructure consulting than the majority of 1st year analysts in IBD, but the idea is to learn the ins and outs of corporate development from a transaction broker's perspective, no? Getting an experience that allows you to analyze the growth and causes of value creation, as well as the way that strategic buyers perceive value and target their acquisitions. That way, when we move to start-ups, consulting, Corporate Dev, PE, HFs, or start our own business- we understand the optimal route for growth, value creation, and eventually the strategy for an exit or a large inorganic growth plan. I guess the money is cool too, but there are other ways to make 120-150k with far less stress at this age.

    • 1
    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

Dude......you don't work in IB!!!!!!!!!! Please don't recommend

    • 1
Jul 25, 2017

A lot of good points made already on the pros and cons. It sounds like you already made your decision based on your posts.

*Someone posts saying stay in IBD
*OP replies saying, "BUT I don't like IBD, startup has this" multiple times

If it makes you happier then go for it.

Jul 25, 2017

Oh yeah 1 more thing, when you get to the startup don't call it a "technological startup." No one says that. It's a tech startup. Tech is short for technology, no technological

Jul 26, 2017

Haha, thanks for the lingo correction.

The reason I am responding with counter-arguments is because I am really trying to find a single argument for staying in IBD with which I'll agree and will think that I'd seriously lose something by joining the startup. Maybe I missed something big when I was thinking about it on my own, but for that reason I wanted to share here to get ideas and suggestions from other people and see if someone will be able to put a bug in my head to stay in IB :)

Array
Jul 25, 2017

it's interesting that the prospective employer feels like someone with two months of experience is such a value add. Smells like desperation imo.

Jul 26, 2017

Well they probably didn't extend me offer based on my 2 months stint in IB, but based on my education, internships, extracurricular activities, culture fit, motivation, etc.
You can turn this around and ask why top 3 IB felt like I can add some value without having prior experience. With respect, that's not really how hiring works.

Array
Jul 25, 2017

I can understand professional services companies following this model more so. Banks, Accounting firms, etc. need foot soldiers to do bullshit work and new graduates are the cheapest way to get the menial bullshit done. They can work them into the ground and then most of the people will leave when they'd otherwise begin getting more expensive to keep (more experienced).

I would think a startup with 100 employees would be hiring a base of value add people to really get their shit off the ground. But it seems you mentioned there were some more senior people you'd be working for in which case they need somebody to do the menial bullshit probably, so I guess it makes sense.

Jul 26, 2017

I would take the offer, but push start date off as far as reasonably possible. When do they need you?

Jul 26, 2017

OP, do what you want, but think carefully.

This is WSO so we monkeys are biased towards IB naturally. But plenty of people working good jobs and living good lives and making good money who've never been an IB analyst for 1 day.

Jul 26, 2017

it seems like you just want people to post what you want to hear. You clearly want the Tech gig so go for it.

My advice though is to realize grass isn't always greener and to really know if this is what you want. If the tech job is a flop within a few months then you just passed up probably the best experience you can get for a resume builder right out of school (IB). So if say 3-6 months go by and then you want out.. you're now looking at either explaining months long gap after UG with no work or if you include it you're then looking at explaining why you want out so early.

Also I'm not in IB but just giving my thoughts lol

Aug 3, 2017

It really depends what you want in the long-term. You have to weigh the fact that leaving will essentially blacklist you from any major BB looking at new candidates, you will develop a bad image with the people on your team for dropping so quickly, etc. If you want to work in tech in san francisco then that really doesn't matter because those people will never see you again. If you want to eventually go into Tech M&A then that looks really really bad.

I suggest sticking it out with your bank for the duration of the analyst position and moving after. That way you have something amazing on your resume, it shows that you can finish something you have committed to, and opportunities in tech will never stop appearing out of nowhere (nature of the work).

Jul 23, 2017

Find out how much cash they have on the balance sheet, and how much they are burning. The thing about bubbles is that you don't know you're in one until after it pops. This company sounds capital intensive, and unless it is profitable or really close, it could face a funding squeeze, in which case guess which roles are going to be cut first...? I'll give you a hint: not sales, not engineering.

Jul 25, 2017

So the boutique still isn't IB? If you want, IB -> PE, then I wouldn't take a trading or AM role at a small boutique (base on your mention of trade execution/research) as it doesn't get you closer to your goal.

Aug 11, 2017

Alright, I figured it was more front office and a bit more relevant but I'll probably just stay at BB BO and keep going for IB and mfin while trying to lateral ...back office is just not the most satisfying work

Aug 11, 2017

So the role is an equity research analyst? I would take it.

Aug 11, 2017

Yeah I would take it as well. You're not going to get hired for IB out of BO, so your only hope is to get into IB after grad school, and your grad school chances would probably be helped by more substantive work, no? Plus you might actually like research.

Am I missing something here?

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

The boutique role is "assisting research department with investment ideas" and then executing trades. It's a total no name, basically wealth management but apparently they actually invest.

Background: I was a relationship manager in college, basically selling credit cards, savings, mortgage etc. recent non-target grad and have been working BB BO for three months. There have been a few people who made te transfer from my department in BB to ER in the same BB.

Just wanted to clarify what I meant when I was talking about ER.

So basically I would be giving up the chance to lateral to ER within my BB, to take a no name boutique position that's sort of like ER/AM

Aug 11, 2017

Delete

    • 2
Aug 11, 2017
theteam:

Don't do it man. Stay at your BB and milk that big black cow until it screams "No, no, ok just a little more" and then swoope in for that ER babyyyyyy!!

Haha yes this is the plan of attack, the upside potential at the BB seemed way higher ...even back office duds wearing jc penny are making money over here

Aug 11, 2017

I would take it. I met over 100 people in ops when I worked there, at the analyst/associate level. Exactly one broke into pure front office IB - and he did it 3 months after he started. Most of the "superstars" of ops end up in middle office roles like credit risk (and usually on the less sexier side of credit risk reporting). I know of 2 people - and this is 5 years later - who are "close" to true IB work, and are technically under the IB P&L...but they are in client relationship management and a business analyst role - neither of which are revenue generators.

When trading was bigger, you could jump from ops to trading front office if you were really good...but trading is in decline, and you get very few transferable skills from ops to IB. On the plus side, Ops pays a lot more than it used to and has become more professionalized. I got to $100k comp and 35 hour work weeks after ~4.5 years.

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

If you want IB, go to a top MSF and network like crazy. That's probably the path of least resistance (if you would consider that as such). A no-name boutique in a small market with trade execution sounds like a great way to get experience in investment management but not for IB. Could be completely off here but that seems like a really tough way to go M7 down the line.

Jul 23, 2017
BTOWN:

If you want IB, go to a top MSF and network like crazy. That's probably the path of least resistance (if you would consider that as such). A no-name boutique in a small market with trade execution sounds like a great way to get experience in investment management but not for IB. Could be completely off here but that seems like a really tough way to go M7 down the line.

It's more than enough for a top 15 school though, which is all you really need for basic IB. Hell even some schools as low ranked as 25 are placing these days.

Aug 11, 2017

Don't take it, it will put you further from your goals. People saying it's more substantive work exp are likely misinformed. Go msf path or even move to middle office or a solid back office role if yours is shit, before getting and MBA and moving to banking. That's your path of least resistance and is also your likeliest pathway to ib

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

Yeah honestly my job now isn't terrible experience, just terrible pay level lol. It's definitely back office but I feel like it's better experience than ops. The ops guys just bill trades, whereas my team actually works on long projects to cut expenses related to our accounting team.

I'm going to start throwing out more applications for IB. Would you guys still recommend leaving BB to take an IB or PE position at a no name boutique? Just want to make sure before I start applying everywhere

Though it would be great to stick it out here for the ER position, they say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Aug 11, 2017
theebreadwinner:

Yeah honestly my job now isn't terrible experience, just terrible pay level lol. It's definitely back office but I feel like it's better experience than ops. The ops guys just bill trades, whereas my team actually works on long projects to cut expenses related to our accounting team.

I'm going to start throwing out more applications for IB. Would you guys still recommend leaving BB to take an IB or PE position at a no name boutique? Just want to make sure before I start applying everywhere

Though it would be great to stick it out here for the ER position, they say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

I'm sure you have done your dd, but just be sure the ER job is what you expect it to be, and not a wealth management role. I'm not as familiar with ER, but maybe ask about their strategy and processes

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

It sounds like you think it is pretty likely that you can switch to ER from your current role, but you really want IB. I would not be making this assumption that you can switch. Even if you know people who have switched to ER, it certainly won't be easy. Also, ER guys are a different breed than IB, and they'll probably know that you're full of crap when you say you want ER.

    • 1
Aug 11, 2017

What city are you in? And @opsdude1" seriously? That sounds like a pretty comfy gig...is ops like a typical analyst program where you are booted out after 2 years?

Aug 11, 2017
NESCAC:

What city are you in? And @opsdude1 seriously? That sounds like a pretty comfy gig...is ops like a typical analyst program where you are booted out after 2 years?

It's almost never treated as a 2 year program. Pay and hours and type of work definitely vary between companies though. Some pay over time, some pay bonuses. Citi paid considerably less than JPM. 2-3% raises and 2-3% bonuses, as opposed to JPM which was 5-10% raises and 10-15% bonuses.

I mean it's comfy to an extent, but the higher paying ops jobs are in NYC, and it get annoying to have to have roommate in your later 20's, which is still necessary most of the time at $100k.

Aug 11, 2017

I'm in a small city with zero IB. And while business school may come, I really think I need the analyst stint because it seems to be valued later in your career if you're looking to switch to PE, HF etc

Would you guys start applying to every IB and PE boutique possible? Or just shoot for MM and up for brand name since I'm already at a BB?

Also, I passed CFA level I and have the grades and everything, just a non target

Aug 11, 2017

I would aim for boutiques and MM firms. The BB's probably won't interview you unless you have a connection. CFA is useless for IB, but would be helpful for ER. However, ER -> PE is tough. Another option to consider is to leverage your CFA L1, study for L2, and start applying to ER positions. It'll be a lot easier to try and lateral to IB from ER, or continue with ER until b-school--then recruit for IB there. Alternatively, you can just kill it in your current role and talk about moving to a different division of BO internally, or at another bank to something more interesting (which may not be FO, but more intellectually stimulating). I'm just spit balling right now though.

Aug 11, 2017

This sounds similar to something I may have to do. Going to SA at a large bank in NY in a finance/risk group (not FO). Not to hijack this thread, but does the advice above (applying for MM and boutique FO positions) apply to a rising senior, or does that only apply to someone already working BO full time?

Aug 11, 2017

The goal of the MSF would be to break into IB (preferably BB or EB).

The MSF would simply be to rebrand and have access to OCR. I just want the analyst stint so that I can be a competitive applicant for PE/HF recruiting, as opposed to MBA-->IB associate where it seems to be much harder to exit

If the degree would be valuable later in PE/HF then that's a plus too. But I'm not sure how much value the grad degree would have if I pass all three levels of the CFA exams anyways.

Aug 11, 2017

Also, for business school, just crush your GMATS. I got into M7 with below average GPA and ops background. There's a race for GMATS, so if you can get 750+ you can get into a top school.