Student Advice - Continue trying to break in?
Hi Guys,
I'm looking to break into a boutique investment bank. I graduated in three years from a non-target school with a degree in accounting this summer. I graduated with a 3.7 (plus a few extra points I will exclude as to not identify myself), and the school is a well regarded public school. I have internship experience in the back office of a small private equity firm, and in audit at a Big 4 public accounting firm. I held a bunch of leadership positions, and TA'd a few courses that I would consider relevant for IB (but not finance classes) while I was an undergrad.
I am currently studying for my masters of accounting; I could graduate in May and start working full time then, or I could postpone graduation for a year, add a concentration to my accounting degree, and seek summer analyst positions this summer (with the expectation of working full time at the same place the next year).
Right now I am trying to do a few things to break in:
- Seeking information interviews with the hope that someone remembers me when SA recruiting starts, or they are looking for an off cycle hire. I had a few informational interviews, and I think they went reasonably well (asked for my resume to hold until they look for someone).
- Doing some of the lessons on Macabus to learn about modelling. I know a good bit about DCF unlevered/levered cash flows, WACC, exit multiples, and that sort of stuff, but I think my knowledge probably needs to be better to get a SA position (although I really have no benchmark here since I have never interviewed for one of these things).
Advice I am looking for:
I am wondering if I should continue trying to break in, or I should just accept an offer for audit. Could anyone here see themselves hiring someone with my stats/experience (from a boutique or regional perspective not BB, I know I missed the boat on that a long time ago) or am I really just wasting my time here because I'm not a good enough candidate on paper to consider. I really don't have anyone in my network I can ask these things (outside of the informational interviews, but I am trying to sound confident during those so these questions wouldn't really work there).
I would really appreciate any advice.
Thanks
Since you graduated your basically out of the sa running the point of them is for current students
Would that be true since I am still in a masters program? Or would I be out of it just because I am not a current undergrad? This is basically a 3+1 or 3+2 masters program; I don't have any work experience in-between the two degrees and the masters program is basically an extension of my undergrad work.
Most sa programs are looking for undergrad juniors now are there other out there sure, but the ones I've seen are juniors
Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it! Any input for potential in full time recruiting?
I wouldn't rule yourself out of SA completely. Given that you're already started your Masters this isn't directly comparable, but last year at my bank (MM) we had two SA's who had finished undergrad and were going on to MFin programs in the fall. It's not just college juniors.
With that said, I'm sure it's very dependent on the bank and FT recruiting would definitely be a more traditional way for someone at your point in school to break in and would probably be easier to get into for you.
I just finished undergrad so take my advice with a grain of salt.
In my perspective, masters students should be applying for associate level positions. So my guess would be that SA roles are completely out of the question, and perhaps you should look around to see if it is not uncommon for masters students to land FT analyst roles.
Just a few words of caution: recruiting for FT analyst positions will be much more difficult because job offers require a huge commitment to the company (2-3 year contract with someone they have never worked with). This is especially true for boutique firms as their analyst class is smaller. So this means that you really have to nail these interviews if given the chance.
Also if you really want to chase a career in ib, I recommend you to plan accordingly especially in this job market. Don't do anything to screw your career/life over if this doesn't pan out for you, so have concrete backup plans. Remember boutiques hire year round on a need basis so you can work that to your advantage.
I come from a nontarget with BO experience and was able to land a boutique offer. While I wish to give you hope, my case is still highly irregular even for a non-elite boutique.
Hi ikiq,
It would be hard to see myself applying for associate level positions, since this is effectively my senior (4th) year of college. I'll be in career services tomorrow to check if anyone from our masters program has placed into IBD, and if so at what level, but I think it's unlikely we have sent anyone since pretty much everyone ends up in Big 4 accounting.
I do have a solid backup plan... If I can't find anything in investment banking, I'll start FT in Big 4 accounting and try to make it into Transaction Services, then try investment banking from there.
With your BO experience did you find any resources useful to boost your technicals (outside of macabus and reading WSJ/other literature)? Also, did you go for volume in your networking (a lot of cold emails) or more targeted emails to alumni?
Thanks for your help! I know how hard it is going to be to get in.
As others have said, this advice is wrong....people from lots of Masters degree (eg Accounting/Finance - not MBA) go in to IB at the analyst level.
I understand that this is only your fourth year, and some may few this as impressive but I personally do not think it looks good when applying for entry level ib positions (higher degree associated with higher titles).
And since you're coming from a nontarget, I doubt you'll find anyone with an accounting masters getting into ib (so scretch your net and see if other nontargets with masters were able to break in - perhaps talk with them too and ask for advice but don't expect much because they don't know you).
Also if you don't initially get into ib, I really don't know if it's worth working a few years just with the intent of breaking into an entry level IB position later on. Don't let chasing this career run (and ruin) your life. There are plenty of other great careers aside from ib.
As for learning technicals, try to think through the finance concepts for yourself (with the assistance of Google search). For example, what is difference between dcf and comps, what is wacc, what is beta, why does it make sense to use dcf as a valuation methodology, etc. Anyone can memorize these definitions, but if you understand the concepts behind them, I feel you will be prepared for any curve ball interview questions (ie: how do you calculate beta from scratch, tell me about the economy, what do you think about the current market valuation levels, etc.).
As for other resources, I'm sure you can do a search and come up with many great results. My list of resources aren't special but if you're really curious I personally read wsj, zerohedge, seeking alpha, Yahoo finance, investing/economic books from recognized investors, this site, mergers and inquisitions, vault, etc. It's all just personal preference!
Networking is where I failed, and I scrambled last minute to send out targetted emails. Do a search on this website from people who were successful with this approach as I got many of my ideas from them.
My advice to you aside from technicals and networking is to be someone who is very presentable. Have an interesting story, be confident, and be humble (and still remember to perfect your technicals). I think your story will be a big factor during your interviews due to your background so make sure you have a good one (don't come off negative/pessimistic in any way - learn how to tell good stories to make your story interesting/engaging and figure out why you want to do banking - your story should explain all this under 3-5 minutes with normal speed).
Thanks for the additional insight Ikiq. I guess I'll keep pounding the pavement with my networking and see what comes up. It looks like I am probably going to need a good story as to why I am doing a masters in accounting yet still looking for an IB job; so that's another thing to hone in on.
Above typo: some may view...
I personally don't think this is as hopeless as everyone here is making it out to be given that you still have the option of doing an SA stint before graduating. A lot of banks (BBs included, I see no reason not to at least try for them) mention on their SA apps that they are looking for students with one year of classes left, so either juniors or students about to complete a masters program. Doing a one year masters is becoming quite common and these people almost always go in at the analyst level.
You should apply anywhere and everywhere including the top places. What it will come down to for you is how effectively you network. Obviously it'd be great to find others who took a similar route with the masters (I'd look at people with a masters in anything, not just accounting, that made the transition to IBD analyst after) and also focus on people who made it in from your school or other non-targets as they'll probably be most willing to help. You can find all of this from an advanced search on linkedin. Start ASAP!
And as for prep, I'd just get the WSO guide and read Rosenbaum & Pearl's IB book. Good luck!
Thanks MrF... In terms of applying for on-cycle SA positions I should have my network in place by the middle of November, and have all applications in by the beginning of December correct? When I am networking I am sending out emails with these deadlines in mind; I'm trying to pace myself and not take too many calls on one day.
Thanks!
That's correct for the most part. Do note though that some firms have earlier deadlines for non-targets. Last year I think CS was Nov 1, GS was quite early as well, and WF only opened apps up for one day in November so if you missed those you were out of luck.
Ignore the person's comment above about applying to associate positions. Masters students do not recruit for associate positions - they recruit for analyst positions. MBAs recruit for associate positions.
This. Boutique banks have the luxury of you being able to connect the the MD/VP and you'll have a great chance at getting the job.
Recently I noticed an MD of a local boutique bank has his pilots license/enjoys flying. It's something I can bring up or mention off the cuff that I enjoy (which I do) and hopefully will relate more. Just reach out, apply to FT positions for bigger names/Big 4/local firms.
Good luck.
to add i know certain BB that will not higher mba or masters for analyst position for many reasons
OP just keep networking and see what comes your way. If IB is what you want in your life then you must reflect on why you wanna do IB. These positive thoughts will reflect in your interviews.
You should also look at related roles. Valuations is oftentimes very M.Acc. friendly. Also corporate banking, transaction advisory, financial consulting within a Big 4. Network hard, learn your technicals, you won't have many shots at an interview necessarily, so you need to be able to nail them.
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