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Almost as good as when my tax dollars go to dropping bombs on kids....
I don't think people realize where their taxes actually go... On the federal level, more than half go to the military and healthcare. Yet, nobody ever cries about subsidizing fat people who can't control their weight or giving our giving our tax dollars to exploitative health insurance agencies or starting pointless wars in the middle-east, or subsidizing defense contractors, or paying for NATO's military because Western Europe won't. And then another 20%+ go into social security which nobody on this forum will ever get back because the SSA keeps lending it to the government. Ah, but lets whine about our 6-7% city income tax, a quarter of which goes to education. Oh no, I'm an IB analyst paying $3000 a year so those poor kids can go to school. THEY BETTER BE FUCKING GRATEFUL. Not to mention, most of your money's going to a whole lot of education contractors and siphoned up by 20 burocratic middlemen before it actually reaches the children.
edit: OP (original pussy) removed his post now but he posted a video of a bunch of poor 8 year old NYC school kids and talked about how he expects them to be super grateful and thankful for our taxes.
I think that this is one of the problems.....nobody is grateful for any government funds, they feel ENTITLED to your tax money. In fact, people, who are supported by government funds and hence wealthier taxpayers, more often than not despise the wealthy. Complete opposite of being grateful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States…;
So are you someone who says it’s greedy to want to keep your earnings but those who want to take my earnings are not greedy (I.e. IRS)
It's more like robbery than theft. Alliteration is nicer with theft, but theft usually implies slyness and that you don't know the person who stole your property. Taxes are the government pointing a gun to your head and saying they'll take you to jail if you don't pay up.
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Does total income of 100k for the year really go down to 68k? That's 32% effective tax rate. Just curious
Give or take, yes. Federal, state, city, social security and Medicare. Also factor in health insurance. Shit adds up real quick.
Well no. If you are doing it right you can reduce your taxable income by at least your 401k contribution which at 100K you should be getting close to maxing out. thus that will drop your income to 80k.
Move to Chicago, tons of jobs in finance without the crazy tax rates of NY and SF.
the difference is minimal. if he wants to feel the difference, better move to Miami or Houston, or even better Puerto Rico.
Strange argument, there's not really many finance jobs in those places (unless you love O&G in Houston). There also is a pretty huge difference tax-wise and COL-wise.
I work in Chicago. Base salary of $150,000 nets me $97,000 after taxes, S/S, Medicare, and healthcare. And I get even less with my 401k deduction.
That's not including my ridiculous property taxes, sales tax, liquor tax, gas tax, vehicle sticker tax, and the red light/speed camera at every corner. There's still more taxes.
Moral of the story, it's literally not any better than NYC. But I do love Chicago for what it's worth.
What are you doing with your 401k where you dont get the contribution you are making?
Anyone know about tax refunds as an IB analyst? In college I’d always get most of what was withheld back on my tax refund, but not sure if it was a student thing or what. Can I at least expect to pocket a few grand come March?
I think it depends on how much your employer withheld but my recollection that during my time as an IB analyst, I generally did get a nice chunk back thankfully which was nice and helpful. Maybe a couple or a few thousand or so. Don’t remember exactly but that feels about right. This was when bases and all-ins were around 90 and 200 or so. Now I think they may have gone up or go up, so maybe, hopefully can get back more in refund. Idk. Also that may have been before the salt deduction change thing in the trump cut package I believe and new policies I think cuomo and deblasio have put in maybe. So really hard to tell
Aren't bonuses withheld at 50% so if you get bonus not matter what you should get money back unless your tax bracket is higher than 50%
My first year I got a few $k back since I only had part of a year of base and no bonus. Also got some juicy tax credits that year for student loan interest. After that every year I've had to pay an additional $1k+ in federal but got a few hundred refund for state/city. Also stopped being eligible for the student loan credit since total income was over $80k. It's been disappointing especially with bonuses taxed at close to 50%. I even checked my W-4 to make sure I'm withholding the right amount. I feel like we'd get better returns if the SALT deduction cap was raised but doubt that's going to happen
The SALT deduction cap should never change. Removing it would personally help me a ton, but why the fuck should the federal government be subsidizing crazy tax schemes of local states and cities? Everyone in NYC and Cali is a bleeding heart liberal until it actually hits their wallet.
Just be thankful you don't live in a Canadian city like Toronto or Vancouver where the tax is 53% and you still need to pay out of pocket for stuff like dental.
Don't know about that, my effective tax in NY is still 50%+ (depends on year, refunds etc.) and my buddy in SF is at 53% effective. And even with decent health insurance (that I pay for ~1200 a year) and dental my co-pays while small hardly makes it "free".
Either ur capping/exaggerating or ur making 400k-500k+ if ur anywhere near the 50% USA NY bracket. Canada Toronto/Vancouver 50%+ income tax bracket begins before even reaching 200k CAD. Completely different brackets/ladders.
This is big facts. Seeing my parents and their friends getting slaughtered by Canadian taxes, all my high school buddies and I busted our asses off throughout high school to escape down here to the states. Brain drain effect is legit.
leave if you don't like it.
Yeah, it's awful. All those hours for uncle sam to take your money to disburse it on some non-value-add-societal BS
Welcome to the real world.
when you are sad about your taxation remember that in most European countries it's over 50%
lol I think the median Swedish college grad as a higher debt to income ratio than their American counterparts. Though they have a longer payback period. Taxes in Sweden are killer though; however, it’s culturally accepted.
I was reading just yesterday that it takes for an Italian student like 16 years before reaching a positive roi on the uni investment, what a joke
Couldn't agree more - paying 45% effective tax rate in Germany while salaries are also lower relative to the US
There are many ways to reduce your tax burden. The internet and library are your best friend. Financial intelligence is the way to go.
It’s almost like there is this one party that doesn’t raise taxes and the last 2 members of this party who were POTUS lowered taxes. May be worth looking into.
'If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not a Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain'
The individual income tax decreases from the Tax Cuts & Jobs Act of 2017 (the Trump tax cuts) is set to phase out in 2025 while their changes to itemized deductions will stay. The law is a literal tax raise in the long run.
Why should the federal government care that places like NY smoke their residents with property taxes?
here's a solution: move to a lower tax jurisdiction. it's just that more people rather pay the taxes and live in NYC than not; not sure what kind of fantasy land you desire where you make pay associated with a COL and opportunity-dense locations but get taxed at a rate associated with the opposite. Houston has some IB if you want to go specialize. Most of the developed world pays even higher taxes than NY.
That's a good point in realism, it comes with the territory of working in such conditions.
But complaining about inefficiency is always fair
haha, when all the efficient people join banking to pursue higher incomes, the ones who go to the IRS aren't going to be cream of the crop.
Just because most of the developed world pays higher taxes doesn’t mean it’s right. Most of the developed world has built out enormous, inefficient, dead economic weight bureaucracies. Bureaucracies tend to be interested in their own growth, protection, and larger budgets more so than in anything else.
I didn't say bureaucracy wasn't prevalent, just pointing out that it's nowhere near as bad as many other places else yet people who are making high incomes seem to complain the most about it. Like I said, there are other states with lower taxes but somehow everyone seems to want to stay here - although it appears that tide is shifting. It's like James Gorman said, if you want NYC salaries then you need to be in NYC (or proximate, can be in NJ / Conn. / Penn and still commute in if needed and save on taxes). If you want to make NYC salaries in a low tax jurisdiction, then you're going to have to specialize and close the door on some exit opps by moving to Texas or something. There are alternatives out there.
Unrelated, but you were shit against Chelsea last weekend wilf.
Ill come back LMAO plz have faith in CP
Pretty disappointed about the high nominal taxes paid as well. I was paying this summer more money each check than I had made from most other jobs before. It adds up and makes you think you might be more qualified to allocate the funds personally instead of handing it off to the state. My parents work for the govt so I know the inefficiencies they talk about daily. Would almost be better to just burn half the money we give up. Looking to retire somewhere tropical and hidden down the line and live like a diet John McAfee after grinding it out in SF. The state should have to earn my cash.
The people who proudly proclaim that taxation is theft have about as many brain cells to rub together as the people who think that communism is a viable form of government
People who use that slogan don't mean to say there shouldn't be any taxes. It's more about the fact that nothing "checks" the government, and as it grows it taxes more and more and becomes more inefficient.
We revolted over a paltry tax on tea because England never touched or did anything with the product. How is quintuple taxation (corporate level, and income, and then when you spend, and then when you withdraw from investments, when you die, etc) a fucking thing. Income taxes are a joke and are only supposed to be there in times of crisis.
If there are 3 people in a room and 2 vote to take the third person's money I call that theft. We have a right to our own property and it's ridiculous to pay taxes on investments when they are our money that we have paid taxes on already. A government with no taxes is stupid, but what we have now is ridiculous. People keep like 1/2 of their money all in, including taxes on gains down the line (as it compounds so does how much you're taxed) half!!!!!!!!!!! the government is NOT that valuable to be an equal "partner" in your life. Government "benefit" should be at a cost much, much lower as how much people contribute to it.
Double, triple, quintuple, doesn't matter. The government can tax us 100 times on the same income for all I care, as long as it's the most efficient way to do it in aggregate (which it won't be, because it's complicated and because nothing the government does is efficient, but I digress). The ideal total amount of taxation is exactly as much as we need to fund those parts of the government which are either necessarily performed by them (military, law enforcement etc.), or give us some return on investment (by correcting any market inefficiencies). And the ideal way of raising that tax is by taking it out of whichever bits of money produce the least amount of marginal utility / create the least economic loss.
The big problem is spending. What we should be doing is reining in spending, because if you solve that then you can lower taxes without running up a huge deficit. You're right on the nose there that we have a big problem with there not being enough in place to check the government. But as we have seen from 4 years of Trump, lowering taxes doesn't do anything to stop the money printer from going brrrrrrrrr. Only way to do it is to elect Republican politicians who are actual fiscal conservatives.
At least Democrats are honest about their spending habits.
I've become super libertarian after being in the finance world, and I know that I'm right. Sounds cocky but it's true. I'm working in infrastructure IB, and you eventually realize that all the services the government supposedly HAS to provide would function 10x better if they were private companies. Imagine contracting out the DMV, they already charge at least $20 to literally print out a plastic new drivers license, it could easily be private and you'd never see a 5 hour DMV line again. Can you imagine how much better shit would run if Infra PE funds were competing over them? Roads? Could easily be private if government cut red tape, look at toll roads. Would be cheaper and roads would actually be built based on demand, meaning less traffic jams and construction crews would actually be compelled to work on a timeline. Fuck it even police? Could be contracted private security forces. Medical care? Don't even get me started. Let's not forget the reason that pharma and wrapping some gauze around your arm costs absurd thousands of dollars is because of government interference and regulation in the healthcare markets. And before you respond with some sob stories about people that need help and would starve without the government, CHARITY (plus the fact that foodstamps is a microscopic part of the government budget, could be provided with a 0.01% tax rate). Plus if there were minimal taxes, people would actually give to charity based on where their money would make the biggest difference. Remember, only a couple percentage of the population are actual psychopaths. People innately care about other people, and if you got rid of government inefficiency and nonsense, people would be morally obligated to help others and actually make a difference. Think about how much more Bill motherfucking Gates, a single dude, has done for the wellbeing of people in borderline communist 3rd world countries whose entire governments have been trying to 'fix' the social and health problems for decades. Bill Gates single handedly saved millions from Malaria-- some random nerdy rich dude on his own volition. Think about how much more efficient Jeff Bezos is at promoting space travel without taxpayer dollars than the bloated NASA. Think about the fact that 30 million people STARVED to death in COMMUNIST China, and similar numbers in COMMUNIST Russia as well, which were supposedly governments 'for the people'. That wasn't because of 'heartless' capitalism, that was 100% governments fault. And now under the Biden admin we're returning to the idea that a couple senile guys and a former bartender in government should have trillions of dollars of YOUR money to spend how they choose in order to 'fix society' based on their whims. It's ridiculous.
government isn't good at providing the service, but they (at least in the US) are good and extremely effective at managing or preventing corruption etc. I think if our "agencies" were reduced by 90% and instead were putting their effort into ensuring standards of private contracting, etc. were up to minimum standards, testing, etc. then we would be better off. The government should be more judicial than doing the work itself
Yes there is corruption everywhere (the more local, the more corrupt) but it's nothing like the countries you mention / other developing economies like India where bribes run the country economy and everything.
Have you seen Pelosi’s investment portfolio? Sure beats the S&P 500…
Lmao government being good at managing corruption? Buddy all government does is enhance corruption, waste, and inefficiency. Almost all government agencies like department of education, FDA, EPA, homeland security, TSA, department of energy, NASA and more could be completely scrapped and we'd lose zero value. Private entities that wanted to mimic these functions would do a much better job and in most cases, we wouldn't even need one. When you see the amount of corporate welfare government gives and the kickbacks and bribes politicians get from the wealthy, I don't know how anyone could say the government does a good job at inhibiting corruption. Just because it isn't as bad as third world countries, does not mean it is anything to write home about here. Not trying to attack you because I think we are on the same wavelength in terms of how bad government is, but even what you said is too high of a praise I could muster.
I don't disagree with the whole post, but it's incredible that the party of supposed bootstrapping loves to point out "former bartender" as if that's a bad thing. The American Dream is built on the idea of social mobility, yet somehow the "proud Americans" are the first to look down on someone who worked their way up from a low-wage service industry job.
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I agree w/ you that people saying she shouldn't be a congresswoman (who advocate for bootstrapping) are probably incongruent w/ their own beliefs to some extent, but at the same time I (and most others) aren't saying she shouldn't be able to be a congresswoman but rather she is just unqualified. I wouldn't want someone being part of government because it pays better (bc the pay usually sucks compared to the true market value of the person-- she is getting a serious upgrade). The fact that her most recent job was a bartender means those are her closest qualifying skills and as an interviewer in an interview (which the US pop. are, evaluating a congressperson) looking at her resume as lacking qualifications for the job IS COMPLETELY different to saying she is "pulling up herself by her bootstraps" -- because the US people are footing the bill so to speak.
but the fact that aoc CAN and DID become a congresswoman is why this country is the best. it's one thing to say someone "can" do something "if they really wanted" (in some contexts it is a disqualifying statement because it might be ridiculously hard to the extent that it disqualifies a lot of people)
she deserves that spot and honestly she might be stupid, but the systematicity with which she gathered votes was extremely effective and all that was needed to win. she deserves the income etc. and props to her, but that doesn't mean people can't rag on someone's lack of qualifications for a supposedly rigorous and prestigious position of such kind that THEY perceive to be "footing the bill" or seeing the negatives from (just like people on the left can criticize people who are repub elected officials)
>people innately care about other people
uhhhh dawg... idk how to tell you this lmfao
I'm also libertarian and good to see that there are other libertarians in the finance community, as I know a ton of dumbass leftists on Wall Street. Agree completely with what you said. I mean anyone who looks at government infrastructure and thinks our roads and highways are being built efficiently when they look torn down and have shitty potholes are absolute morons. Every private toll way I've been on is so much nicer than shitty government roads. The private sector is always better at efficiently allocating resources than the government. The private sector will also do it in the cheapest manner possible because there's less bureaucracy and an actual profit incentive, neither of which the government has. It's so funny retarded leftists will always start with "who will build the roads" as their argument against eliminating income taxes. Who the fuck do they think are building the roads now? Do they think their lord and savior AOC is getting down into a ditch and paving the roads? No the private contractors are and toll ways are less expensive in usage fees compared to the amount of taxes funneled to the government for building the road.
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
what hurts is when you get your signing bonus (before actually going FT) and the deductions are like 50% and you're like what the fuck?
and then you see fucking NY taxes take out 10-13% when you never even stepped a foot there yet, trying to get their grubby little hands on a 21 year old's money out of college who barely had money before and just worked their ass off the last 10 years trying to get said job.
Honestly, I wish they allowed people who are younger to have tax advantages. The whole system is giving benefits to people with kids, are older, etc. but as someone who is young and has the most potential to make an impact on their career and also get ahead early they have to pay for everyone else too. Stupid system.
Yes it's brutal if your work/income is tied to a geography. In the US, there's a weird dynamic too where your tax situation really sucks unless you're making ~5M+ a year and not an employee.
I wonder when firms will allow remote work and share the tax savings between employees? You don't have to pay nearly as much if someone isn't being taxed at an insane % of their income.
In other countries, it's oddly much easier to avoid taxes legally. For example, as a Canadian living in the US my effective rate will fall to 3% - 5% once I finish wrapping up some legal/accounting work. This work is also a lot less expensive than it would be for an American + legal. Maybe ~$75k - $100k but would be a couple million for an American and a lot more grey. Long-term once you have an asset base built up, probably worth getting rid of your American citizenship and picking something else up. Loads of countries have arrangements with the US where it's quite easy to pick up long-term visas BTW - so doesn't really cause issues that way.
Fuck that. I am never giving up my citizenship. For all its faults I still firmly believe that this is the greatest country on the planet.
USA USA USA USA USA USA USA
Hmm I used to feel similarly about Canada but I think I’d rather deploy the tax savings into philanthropy myself and get better results than meaningless and ineffective government spend going to leeches.
yeah spoke about that w a few people and leaving america would suck but it's the only way to reverse the trend (which at the point of me retiring / moving might get to a really bad point)
The thing is I wouldn’t mind paying higher taxes if they actually helped people and didn’t line politicians pockets. But I would expect free reliable widespread public transportation, good public schools (90% of kids meeting grade level English and math, speak a second language at b2/c1, 3rd language at b1 or higher), public museums free for students, homeless people off the streets, people paid a living wage, health care system figured out. (I know this is possible because I lives in a country where all this was true)
but as it currently is, I think our tax rate is ridiculous. Just look at the “wall” that was destroyed by the floods and all the money going to random private contractors.
😆
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