The Pendulum Has Swung Way Too Far...
My firm (cough MS cough) has almost entirely filled its 2023 class with diversity candidates through our early insights programs. Un-fucking believeable... It's mid April and we haven't even gone through our regular non-div process yet.
Got word that the last diversity superdays were wrapping last week — Reached out to HR earlier today trying to push for who I thought were the best candidates thinking that we would run a regular non-div process. This is what I hear back "The junior class is almost completely full at this point, it's unlikely that we will have the capacity to take anymore. We're reserving a few spots for the sophomore class, however. " What the flying fuck. The sophomore program is for diversity only as well.
I'm on the recruiting team for one of the fucking ivies. We did on-campus coffee chats last week. Now I have to break the news to a bunch of poor kids that while we were running on-campus coffee chats, HR was handing offers out like candy through the early insights program.
I have nothing against the diversity programs and understand that they're there for a reason. My issue is when 80-90% of a class is filled with diversity... That's way too fucking much.
Rant over.
Lol this is what I heard too.
Was trying to get accelerated today due to exploding offers and HR straight up told me that its unlikely I'll get anything because they're almost at capacity. wtf lol
Ngl I think your recruiting team dropped the ball or something. Also on a recruiting team at MS, and we were able to push our non-diversity kids forward. Ultimately ended up with slightly over half of the offers we extended to non-diversity candidates.
HR has been a blackhole. Incredibly frustrating.
Maybe its just my school specifically then.
Thanks for the insight, Sbd
Man the pendulum has swung too far is right. Incredible. Thanks for sharing.
“Disliked by two diversity hires”
Jesus. I’m a minority but that is ridiculous.
I wonder if this is the case for everyone else that isn't done hiring. Girl in my case study group just got JPM last week. Can't do a DCF or LBO. But got in of course.
how do u know she can't do one lol
Probably cause she’s in his case study group
We gotta do something to push back, this is ridiculous.
So almost the entirety of MS class of 2023 is diversity hires? You sure about that?
Seeing as HR won't even look at the non div candidates I'm trying to push, that's the most reasonable conclusion...
It's just your candidates or group then. I know non-div peeps in process and someone else in this thread said they pushed theirs through.
I actually think there's going to be a shocking lack of viable career bankers (ie past associate) in the next 5 years. You can muddle your way through being a sub-par junior but that leash quickly tightens at VP when you're being paid 700k to generate 0 revenue and are instead required to be able to execute / lead the junior team. Most of the good juniors leave and most people who are crappy at their job leave as well (or get told to). Who's going to be left?
Any idiot can take credit for the work of those beneath them and relegate meaningless comments to analysts.
Not for long and not without the juniors either pushing back or leaving out of frustration. I've seen a couple jr vps coast on this but it becomes apparent pretty quickly.
Was told yesterday by lower BB/upper MM that 60% of superday offers were diversity. I kind of understand it I guess but is large number. As in the majority lol.
It sounds like it's a great time to be Black and a Woman in America for once.
It's sad that a lot of these recruits are going to show up for work and immediately be judged as only being there because they're diversity recruits. They will still be judged even if they are competent, hard workers, and otherwise good employees. And any little mess up that would otherwise be overlooked will be judged more harshly because of their situation. They took advantage of the opportunities that were given and there's nothing wrong with that on their part. It's just unfortunate that they will receive a lot of resentment from the office and have to fight an uphill battle to earn their respect.
To be honest, I really don't think that's the case. Something I've noticed watching SA class after SA class go by is that interviewing performance and one's ability to understand the finance concepts during recruiting process doesn't really translate into one necessarily being better on the desk. For the most part, once the SAs and even analysts hit the desk, the vast majority of them are very similar in ability, with maybe a couple standouts per class, and the average analyst quickly ramps up and catches up to the individuals who were stand-outs at the beginning after a few months on the desk. There also really isn't any resentment based on who was a diversity hire. After the first few months, the true slackers fall behind the rest of the pack, and that's where slight resentment starts to breed, but based on what I've observed the correlation between being a diversity hire and an incompetent analyst really isn't high.
ratio
edit: they stopped me from upvoting my own comment
My intern class is 7 people; 5 woman, 1 diversity and me. Not complaining but I think it's a bit strange to try and reflect the population diversity when the people gunning for banking don't reflect the population diversity.
To be fair banking isn’t that hard.
This.
I really don’t want to believe this. At an Ivy right now and none of my non div friends or I have heard anything. Thanks for the wild ride finance, I’m starting case prep for MBB… better safe than sorry lol
MBB isn’t any better
very interesting lol, my group of 20 people has like 16 men and 4 women - don't think that was intentionally done ofc but interesting to note the dynamic esp in this day and age
banks care more about virtue signaling than actually hiring top talent. what a laughably bad strategy
Maybe it’s also because this job doesn’t require top talent...
This isn't rocket science, there's a reason analysts are called monkeys.
Think the most important thing is that these kind of irresponsible behaviors get called out. Kudos to you OP. The only way recruiting becomes fair and equitable to everyone is if firms are held accountable.
Now I understand why I haven't heard back, even with an alum director pulling for me. Looks like its time to apply to Nomura.
Firms with publicized diversity targets may be inclined to go overboard with the percentage of diversity new hires for a few classes to meet the firm's overall diversity targets. This would be especially true for firms where the percentage of diversity employees is low due to historical hiring practices. Hence an over-correction, if it is happening, could be temporary but impact some adversely.
and what do you recommend the “some” impacted do in the meantime?
Not much of a choice here, but to give it your best and hope for a break, while preparing for a backup/ secondary option.
90% of those "diversity" hires are Caucasian/Asian women.
Any way to verify this? I find this very hard to believe--especially as barely any kids from any of the early insight programs I participated in got offers at all.. they included kids from targets like Stern, Wharton, Berkeley...I know more diverse kids that got offers than non-diversity, but that's due to diversity recruiting happening earlier obv.. know non-diversity hires from even semi-targets clutching offers after getting a connection pull for them and then literally having 1 dinner and 1 "interview"
is it true that top rx groups are still very much male oriented?
OP are you going to tone down your hysterics and correct your post now that multiple people have come out and said that this isn't firmwide? Or are we just continuing to shit on diversity just cause?
Extremely based by MS if this is true. Unfortunately seems it's not and OP is just retarded.
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