The worth of an Ivy League (Penn in particular) over other schools

I can't talk to non wharton penn (although I assume if you kill it you'll have similar range of OCR for IB/Consulting as the wharton guys), but UVA's business school has been rising in prominence the last few years-

With regards to UVA, it is very competitive when it comes to banking (if you're not in one of the student investment funds, placement might be rough)

In addition, you need to apply to be in the McIntire school after your first 2 years- so having as close to a perfect gpa your first 2 years is important.

However, if you're willing to grind i've seen a huge range at UVA from Moelis to GS to Bain to McKinsey.

I don't personally think that Penn is worth $140K more than UVA from an "outcomes" perspective; UVA is reputable enough and the McIntire school highly regarded enough that you won't miss out on much. If we were talking about Wharton it might be different. Have you gotten all of your aid info yet? Grants? Scholarships? I find it insane that anyone could pay 70K per year for undergrad, or even 35K, for that matter. But I graduated 10 years ago.

As someone who went to Penn non-Wharton, you should definitely take UVA and the $$. Penn non-Wharton has great access to recruiters (essentially all job postings are open to non-Wharton students) but it's probably not markedly different than UVA McIntyre in the terms of which banks come to campus. At Penn you'll also be competing with the Wharton students, which means you have to really stand out in CAS. If it were $70k for both, I'd say take Penn, but the $35k price difference makes it an easy choice.

Calpheon:

As a high school senior, I was wondering about the difference was between an undergraduate education at Penn (Economics in CAS, not Wharton), and the McIntire School of Commerce at UVA. Would the prestiege from Penn be pivotal in finding jobs / interns during and after my stay at the college? I've been thinking about the connections I would form at each school, the GPA I would recieve at each respective college (likely higher in UVA due to it being less competitive), and the career opportunities each university could lead to (in Wall Street).

Since I live in VA, UVA would cost 35k per year as opposed to Penn's 70k. I don't want to put the extra burden on my parents if unnecessary, but if going to Penn would truly open more doors and new opportunities - if its really worth it - then I would be happy to go there.

Thanks for the help in advance!

In your position I would choose UVA McIntire all day long. In part because I am competitive and would want to be working with the best at my school, which won't be your case at Penn (I have no idea if transferring into Wharton is possible).

UVA is absolutely a target/great brand, and it's a way better deal.

If you got into Wharton, I'd say take that, but I'd go to McIntire over non-Wharton Penn.

I think the problem with seductive brand names is that students naturally assume that they will make them successful. Problem is, it's gonna take years to get successful. So the tuition really bites you in the bum, depleting your lifestyle for first 3-4 years on the job (crummy apartments, really tight finances, etc.). Not the glamour you envision after top school. So tuition consideration should be super important, just as important as job exit opps, etc.

Personally not a Whartonite myself, but seen analysts pass through my division feeling sunk by Ivy debt, calling it a rip-off despite landing IB placements at BBs. I know others that weren't even as fortunate despite carrying the brand name. Bottom line, paying a heavy price tag for a famous name doesn't guarantee a top job (or any job in some cases).

UVA is definitely solid choice. Worked with a several directors from UVA (MBAs) most of whom were heavy recruiters for of the school.

If all else fails, the lower tuition will also give you a lot more breathing room in terms of waiting out for a better gig rather than taking sub-par jobs just so not to get tanked by the tuition payment. Trust me, been there, done that.

Well, they are both good programs, so you can't really make a bad decision here.

I would pick Penn.

Why would you want to go some place where you're already pretty sure you'll be near the best. Being challenged is the best way to grow and push yourself to achieve more

dudes, OP hasn't even gotten into either yet...

definitely get accepted before thinking like this. getting yourself in this kind of mindset isn't gonna look good if it doesn't work out (~95% people get turned down). I was a senior a few years ago.

also a 3.9-4.0 at any top 30 school is very ambitious.

if money is a serious concern, don't ED penn. if you think you can work it out, ED the school.

The problem with threads like this is that people assume that life will continue as they expect - there won't be issues with grades, extracurriculars, recruiting. Given the amount of money at risk here, and the burden that this will have, I would carefully examine bad and worst case scenarios before committing to either option.

I've listed some questions below that I would consider in your shoes - some might sound far-fetched or petty, but these have all impacted the post-graduation outcomes of people I know.

What if your family's main breadwinner is killed in a freak accident? What if you decide that you want to pursue an academic career, rather than a life on Wall Street? What if you get diagnosed with cancer? Or schizophrenia? What if you end up in a course you thought you'd ace, and end up with a C-? What if you go to Penn and you're average? What if you go to UVA and you're average? Or below average? What happens if you want to change majors, but have to do some summer courses instead of a sophomore internship? What if you grow to hate finance and want a career in journalism or marketing? What happens if you unknowingly take on too many classes and extra-curriculars at once? What happens when your friends on campus, who have become a family to you, fall apart or cause drama? What happens if you have a terrible breakup? Or a terrible relationship? What happens if you have to take on more hours at work because you dropped your phone and can't afford a new one? What happens if you have great grades and extracurriculars, but somehow you only get two first round interviews for IB, and you don't click with any of those interviewers?

Some of the advice given here is absolutely ludicrous. My story and background is only one anecdotal account, but I came from very humble beginnings as an eastern European immigrant who arrived here with immigrant parents. My parents knew I would be privy to the best opportunities in the world simply by being in this country. Obtaining the best education was always the uncompromisable end-goal. This meant getting into the best school possible regardless of debt. I attended a very good school that opened doors for me which, having gone elsewhere, would have simply remained shut, irrespective of how much networking I would do or how hard I would try to pry them open. I ended up breaking into high-finance from a very under-represented segment of the population, as I am not your standard blue-blooded prep school "wasp".

The unfortunate and sad truth of the matter is, American culture and American institutions are built on brand. Whether we're talking about professional careers, academic institutions, or consumerist corporations, brand is synonymous with credibility and desirability. If you desire a very supply-constricted (IB, PE) or competitive professional career with significant barriers to entry (law, medicine), in this country you will be severely handicapping your probability for success by compromising on brand and assuming you can compensate in other categories. Some of these points made here are so juvenile - if you live life in a vacuum, the brand of your school will never get you a job in-and-of itself. That's not how life works. But if you have the fortitude, perseverance and determination to succeed, and you believe in yourself, going to the very best school you can should not ever even be a question.

P.S. The above only addresses the tangible, "door-opening" effects of going to a top school. The intangibles are priceless, such as developing as an individual and being shaped by an outstanding peer group that will challenge you. Pushing your academic comfort level and academic boundaries. Being challenged to keep pace with peers inside and outside of the classroom, and exploring new ideas among a diverse student body. These may seem like abstract and laughable elements to you now, but all change is steady in course. You will graduate one day, after four lightening-quick years, and realize the monumental impact your experiences have had on you as an individual.

Hey, chiming in with my random 2 cents as a H/Y/P kid.

I faced a relatively similar situation as you (100% full ride to UNC Chapel Hill (out of state), 75% full ride to William & Mary (out of state), as well as another small but well known liberal art school). It's tough, I completely commiserate with how you feel. I chose H/Y/P because I didn't want to look back with any "what if" sentiment, and I don't regret it. In the moment $140K or whatnot may feel like a lot, but if you're going into banking and higher finance, the degree really pays for itself.

Best of luck!

OP are you guaranteed admission into the biz school @ UVA? to my knowledge you apply as a soph for junior entry and entry not guaranteed. also... if we're talking uPenn (not penn state) v UVA i go with uPenn all day. and yes, as shallow as it may seem the ivy leauge name carries prestige.

From my understanding, UVA is basically a public IVY. Unless you think Wharton will 2x your salary over the course of your life, choose UVA. I chose a T-20 Finance UG > T5 because one was free and one was 50k/year. Plus, if you have the creds to get into Wharton, but go to UVA instead, you likely have the ability to be a top of the class performer at UVA.

I have degrees from both schools. Student bodies are meaningfully different. Pick the environment that fits you best.

I went to an ivy, but I got close to a full-ride because of of the generous financial aid (I grew up poor). IF I didn't get financial aid, there would be no way in hell I would be paying for an Ivy, and I would've just went to my flagship state school. Reason is because I wouldn't feel confident having that much debt knowing my post-grad job would be the only thing that could pay that off. What if the economy went into a recession and I was $150k in debt as a poor first-generation student after college? That scenario is suicidal to me.

You need to assess your situation. You only know yourself and need to decide accordingly

Penn is a great school and will provide ample opportunity, as others have said you could transfer into Wharton from Penn. However, you better know damn sure you want to do finance if you go that route. You will need the ROI that finance provides coming out of UG in order to overcome that variance. UVA has plenty of people on the street. They even place a couple of people directly into mid market buyside firms out of UG every year, I would tip the advantage to UVA mainly because it gives you more options going out of UG due to debt loads.

Penn all the way. Companies care about name. UVA is ok but Penn is the next level up. One of the largest differences between Penn and UVA is the number of opportunities offered through on campus recruiting. Of course, just by going to Penn doesn't guarantee you'll snag a great job, but at least you won't have to win case competitions or network 24/7 to win interviews (as is the case with most public schools since there are so many students). There are also more spots for Penn students than UVA kids since Penn tends to have more alums in banking and consulting. In my intern class of ~120 ppl at a top BB (investment banking), there were 10 UPenn kids and 1 UVA kid. You also have more opportunities to build up your resume during underclassmen years since it tends to be easier to land internships with the Penn name rather than UVA. If you want to go into consulting, MBB usually only recruits from the top Ivys or other top private institutions like Stanford, MIT, etc. My friend who worked at ones of the MBBs this summer said her office had 6 Harvard, 4 Princeton, 1 Yale, and 2 Penn. Of course this again varies by office and year, but just to add some perspective. And please don't take this the wrong way - I'm sure there are also incredibly smart and successful people at UVA who land great IB and consulting roles. It might just be harder given the fewer # of spots and greater amount of students.

you guys know there is some research out there which shows people who had the opportunity to go to Ivy league schools and chose to attend non-ivy league universities (even those who were rejected), did JUST as well as those who did.

the things that made you who you are today won't go away because you are not going to Harvard and what not. mbamfinquestions post is excellent. OP seem to me like a teenager eager to go to college, but shit happens and all the plans you had for yourself are through the windows. OP will probably go to upenn, OP is a bit pretentious, potential a** hole, would fit at an Ivy.

Make your parents life easier and go to UVA, don't be a burden for your family, you will do very well in this life.

Penn pros: Penn will open more doors for recruiting and professional opportunities. Don't think that employers, especially in business, perceive UVa and Penn or other ivies as equivalents, they dont. Penn is probably the most targeted ivy after Harvard. Eve as a CAS student you have access to all the resources, classes and clubs that wharton kids have so you can really bolster your resume. Also at Penn you will get a higher-quality and more well-rounded education if that matters to you.

UVa pros: UVa is no Penn but you will have good opportunities at UVA too provided you work hard. Many Uva grads land top jobs. If the extra cost of Penn is too much for your family then it is probably worth choosing UVA.

Penn brand has been massively hurt by Sandusky scandal.

I myself go to a state school, and was fortunate enough to secure a BB SA position in IB for the upcoming summer, so I don't have a huge amount of perspective on this, but I will share with you what my experiences have been. 1. Not completely sure how the alumni base is/what recruiting is like at UVA, but at my state school, BB recruiting is virtually nonexistent. Penn has a huge alumni base and you will get tons of exposure to all sorts of finance positions. 2. An intangible quality that you may want to consider is the atmosphere of the schools. I know this is probably not top priority, but after actually coming to school, it is important. If you are at all interested in the party scene/social life, every state school I have been to is amazing. There is truly nothing like tailgate season at a huge university. 3. You've probably heard it before, but its more about the candidate them self rather than where they come from. If you are passionate about finance and work hard, you'll be alright. Penn might get you in the door quicker, but the rest is up to the candidate. 4. I myself got wait listed at Penn, and was in a similar situation as yourself. If I had gotten into Penn regular decision would I have gone? Fuck yeah. Penn is one of the best business schools in the country, and if you go there you'll already have a leg up over kids like myself who go to state schools. Best of luck.