Trump 2024, Election Fraud, and the Senate Impeachment trial
Tomorrow will begin Trump's impeachment trial in the senate. As far as I understand, the main impact of Trump being convicted is that he wouldn't be able to run again for 2024.
For established Republicans, I assume the goal is to return to a Republican party pre 2016. What interests me more is why Democrats are trying to block Trump from running again. This seems to imply that Democrats think Trump has a good chance of winning 2024. I'm struggling to figure out their basis for thinking so. Yes, this election was close but Biden was hardly a great candidate to be going up against. Unless, of course Trump really did win this election (which would go into another road entirely).
TLDR I'm extremely confused about the whole post - presidency impeachment and what is it's purpose. I'm also wondering whether you think Trump has a good chance of winning should he run again in 2024.
Couple of things to start out with:
This being said, I agree wholeheartedly with your point to return the Republican party to pre-2016 levels. I love the IDEA of Trump, the non-political businessman who wants to run America like a business. I agree that a country of our state should be run like a business in several ways. However, Trump was simply the wrong man for the job. He wanted the presidency to bolster his own ego, to thrive with his nepotistic and favor-ridden state, and overall I believe was bad for the country. If he said three words -- "WEAR A MASK" -- he would have easily won reelection and America would not be in the state it is now. Tensions are high, and that's certainly not all Trump's fault, but he didn't do nearly a damn thing to slow the tensions. He fueled them with his words, his actions, and his emotions. I hate Hillary Clinton with a passion, but I wholeheartedly believe that she would have done better than Trump by thousands of times for this pandemic -- other things, not so much.
I am troubled by the new state of the Republican party. The far-right Qanon bullshit conspiracy members are overruning our party and twisting our image to make it look like they represent all of us. I'm not proud to vote for Biden, as I think he's an idiot, but I couldn't take another four years of Donald. With more nuts on the rise -- Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, etc. -- this is the wrong path.
The only chance the Republicans have in 2022 and 2024 is to distance themselves from the "Trump Party" and realign with the core values that have made us successful for the last 200 years. Although I am on the ride side of the spectrum, I cannot stress this enough -- the far-right is just as bad as the left. We cannot entertain this bullshit any longer if we want to have any respect from anyone at all.
I don't blame people for voting for Trump. I voted for him in 2016, and my father voted for him in 2020. We need to get off this track of "which candidate is less shitty" and more on "which candidate is a good one for the job." I think we need to focus on electing a new, young, and moderate Republican for 2024 to actually prove that we are the party of respect, civility, and the future. Talking heads like AOC, Bernie, and the like will paint the picture that Republicans are evil and horrible, and it's simply not the truth. I'm not optimistic for Biden, but I want to give the man a shot. I have been pleasantly impressed by his administration's COVID response and vaccine rollout, and hope that Republicans and Democrats can work together for the next four years, although I doubt it.
TLDR; -- Republicans can come back from this, but not with Trump. Let's get someone new for 2024.
What are your thoughts about this second impeachment trial?
P.S. FWIW I didn't say that the party should return to pre 2016. I said that established Republicans want it to return to pre 2016 which is their motivation for voting for this second impeachment trial.
Ahhh -- sorry for the misunderstanding!
My feelings on the impeachment trial are mixed. Although I get the precedent, which is holding Trump responsible for his actions, I don't agree with the process or timing. This impeachment trial is really front-and-center in the news right now, and there are many more pressing issues to get through. The whole concept of "impeachment" is to remove one from office and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain we have a new President now. I do agree that it further divides an already strenuous country.
That being said, regardless of your feelings with Trump and the Capitol riot, it's important to set a precedent that you must be held accountable for your actions. I agree with that, I just don't think this is the right way to do that. I won't hold Trump accountable for the riot, but he certainly didn't help it, referencing my earlier point of him adding fuel to the fire.
Interested to know your thoughts on this too, do you want the party to return to pre-2016?
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Ever noticed how the left never, ever apologizes for their extremes, preferring to deny, minimize or dismiss them, while the right very often distances itself from its extremes as premise?
You can guess why they are winning. You want to win with decency and honesty, liberals don't care about those.
I mean a good chunk of the GOP has embraced the bullshit election fraud thing which I think is pretty extreme but hey whatever helps you sleep at night
holy shit you're delusional
People have been arrested for voter fraud and there's videos all over the place. Twitter banned the gateway pundit for a video of 50 boxes of ballots being dropped off at 3:30am in Detroit and then again at 4:30am after you were legally allowed to turn in ballots. In ATL, they lied about a pipe bursting and sent the republican poll watchers home while the liberals pulled a box of ballots out from under a table and started counting them in the middle of the night (also on video). There was mass ballot dumps that went 100% Biden. Statistical anomalies that were 9 standard deviations off. Thousands of dead people voted in Michigan and they got called out so much they shut down the .gov voting site. I'm not saying Trump would have won but to be so naïve to think there was no voter fraud is retarded. Of course there was fraud and it was exponentially worse than any election because of the mass mail in ballots that were shipped to everyone. People tweeted out pictures of multiple ballots arriving at their address for people who had moved out years ago. Postal officers came forward and said they were instructed to break the law and backdate ballots. They boarded up the windows in the Philly location so poll watchers couldn't watch. The reason people don't see this stuff is because legacy media, including fox, hates Trump because he's a populist and they're elitists. He threatens their power and control over America. The Qanons are quacks but the far left literally says Israel shouldn't exist and the Rothschilds and zionists control the world. Theyre equally as bad but because they have a D by their name it is okay. Kamala Harris literally promoted a bail fund that bailed out murderers and rapists who went on to murder and rape again. The only chance republicans have is to embrace populism because no one likes the Liz Cheney neocon war mongers anymore.
edit: imagine being such an establishment simp or libtard you're throwing ms at objectively true statements that are corroborated by video evidence and data analysis. Couldnt be me
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You just read my mind.
I'm seriously hoping Ben Sasse would run in 2024. Don't agree on everything with him but he seems to be one of the few politicians who actually have good problem solving skills and leadership.
Hawley makes me sick and Ted Cruz is a squirmy little sociopath. Pence? Way too religious for me. Anyone who tries to mix his own religious views with how to run a country/state probably shouldn't be in that position.
You are thinking way too much into this issue. Democrats do not want Trump to run for the same reason that many Republicans do not want him to run. To be polite here, being POTUS was not a good fit for him. Let him go back to real estate or whatever else might be a better fit.
I don't see why Democrats would care if Trump was bound to lose anyways. In fact wouldn't that be an advantage for the Dems?
I think the dems want to do address two issues here: make it clear to any future POTUS that certain behavior will not be tolerated. More importantly, everyone is just tired of this guy and his lousy behavior. The last four years have been very stressful for many politicians as well as the public. Behind the scenes, I am sure most republicans want this guy to just go away.
not everything is winning or losing
sometimes you just don't want a human piece of shit in the white house
Biden did not win the election. No chance. If that statement agitates you, it is a reflection of your Marxist inclinations.
This is the kind of shit that you see when too many non-target Trumpies from Ole Miss and Alabama discover WSO
Constant hate and prejudice against people from the south on this website.....yup everyone from the south is just dumb, ignorant, and racist.
Northerners are all angels and super smart...except for when they're busy murdering and harassing black people in Kenosha, Minneapolis, and New York City.
Actually, this description does not fit my personal characteristics (though i am a non target), as i think i am actually pretty normal and i am from Maryland; I am an investment banking analyst if you are curious, but i actually am not convinced Biden won the election. I genuinely believe that many people, particularly those in the middle class with traditional American ethical values, are of a similar mind. I am not political but am a realist, and all of the events and actions throughout the course of the election lead me to view the result with high level of scrutiny. Couple that with the unprecedented executive orders instituted immediately when Biden started his term, I have a hard time believing he got 80M votes. If you want to convince me that he truly received 80M votes, then the democratic political faction should have allowed a fully audit and investigation into the election result, but that was never an option to them, which naturally suggests they were hiding something. Think as you will, but i refuse to allow the mainstream narrative to impose its will on my intellectual independence and capacity for reason through logical analysis.
This is the kind of shit you see when Parler gets shut down and QAnon makes their way to WSO
To follow up - look at all of the bitterness from the marxist contingent. some of them can not even restrain themselves as they sit at their computer in utter disbelief that there is someone with the audacity to offer a different view than their own.
The Dems just want the focus to continue being on Trump and not Biden. The longer they make the political circus revolve around Trump rather than Biden the better for them.
Remember that was also the entire 2020 campaign. Vote anti-Trump....don't focus on Biden...doesn't matter whether you like him or not. Just vote against Trump. That viewpoint is problematic when your enemy disappears and you're just left with Biden.
Using that logic, wouldn't they want him to run again for 2024? Keep the attention again on Trump to help their nominee (theoretically) win.
Well, it looks like impeachment is almost guaranteed to fail. So you have the best of both worlds. Talk about Trump now and make him the center of attention and then talk about Trump again in year 3 and 4 because he could run again.
The same party that investigated Benghazi over 4 years to the tune of $9 million U.S. taxpayer dollars and only wrapped its investigation a month after Hillary Clinton lost the 2016 election, has decided we should never find out what led up to the events of January 6th (which killed 5, including 1 cop, and injured another 140 police), nor hold any of the co-conspirators accountable.
The GOP delayed to ensure the trial would not begin until Trump left office, and now argues he can't be held accountable because he is no longer in office. Under this line of thinking, a President has carte blanch power to do whatever they please in their final weeks of office.
It's blatant bad faith, but what else does the GOP have these days.
This isn't the same as President Trump being specifically impeached.
Also the GOP did not delay the proceedings. Rather they did not accelerate the proceedings. The Senate was on winter break and McConnell decided not to issue an emergency declaration and call the senators back.
So now dems care about the police? Funny how blm/antifa/democrats can burn, loot, and murder all summer long and no one seems to care at all. They were actually encouraged by almost every democrat politicians. The cop was not murdered by the rioters, the media parroted that his head was bashed in with a fire extinguisher which is completely false. Did you have the same feelings when the St. Louis cop was murdered by BLM? Or the other 19 people who died as a result of their riots? Democrats are literally calling for American citizens they disagree with to be drone striked. So much for defund the police and abolish prisons right? Spare us your faux outrage when your party actively participates in violence every weekend. Antifa was in DC this past weekend again smashing windows causing complete chaos while chanting burn it down. Didn't see that on Maddow did you? If your concerned about republicans storming a federal building, do you have the same feeling about antifa attempting to break into the federal courthouse in portland every night for the last 10 months? Im guessing no. You're the one acting in bad faith
I posted this exact photo when George Floyd/peaceful protests/violent riots went down, and I believe it still now. It's entirely consistent idealogy and in good faith. Now run along..
I don't see why people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that there was no election fraud. the left literally propagated misinformation about trump and Russia for years, tried to impeach him earlier on nothing, and has been doing whatever they can to sabotage him. what makes you think they wouldn't try to turn the election in their favor?
It’s literally just political theater who gives a fuck.
Whether you like or hate Trump there is absolutely zero chance the senate convicts him. This is just a chance for the media and senators to self-fellate publicly and act like they actually provide value to society.
He could hire the qanon shaman as his lawyer and they still wouldn’t get 17 Republican votes to convict.
They don’t want trump to run again in 2024 because, especially what happened after the corrupt election of 2020, he is a true threat to the global elite and crooked people on both sides of the aisle. For once we had a president who wasn’t a politician, and with that view he could see all the corrupt bastards (both democrat and republican). Particularly the democrats are terrified at the fact trump could be back in office in 2024 due to him really “draining the swamp” as he says. Not to mention, no one in the right mind can say with a straight face there were not irregularities all throughout the battle ground states in the 2020 election. After all, if there was no fraud, why wouldn’t the democrats agree to a legit audit of the results? If there was nothing to hide then trump would have looked dumb.. but nope
Exactly. It is all very simple and comes down to what occurred specifically after election night in Michigan, Wisconsin particularly between midnight and 8am of Nov 3—these were particularly egregious red flags that still do not make sense, and Pennsylvania, which acted unconstitutionally (Kathy Brockvar resigned last week but this received no media coverage... kinda suspicious?); Georgia, Arizona and Nevada for reasons that are well documented if you exert your mental ability slightly. This election was an utter disgrace to the country and to our founding principles
Once again - 60+ lawsuits file, 60+ court cases dismissed or lost, without a shred of credible evidence of fraud proven. Hand recount of paper ballots matched the electronic count in every district where they were conducted. Trump's own DHS said it was the most secure election in history. But I'm sure a couple of IB interns know the real coverup...
Dems are using this trial to hide the fact they have no plan to pay those $2k stimulus checks.
Maybe the Federal Reserve's money printing machine over-heated and the Dems are just using the Impeachment to buy the Fed some valuable time to fix it.
Also, nice to see Joe Biden and Kamala Harris hiding in Washington DC which is now locked down, protected by walls, fences and filled with soldiers.
If indeed 81 million people voted for Biden compared with 75 million for Trump, wouldn't Biden not be so scared to the point that he has to transform Washington DC into to a militarized police city?
This forum is filled with Liberal simps who think that worshipping the establishment is going to get them social credit points or something.
Newsflash, pretending to be Liberal ain't gonna get you a promotion at work, the poor will never like you because you work in finance and you probably would never befriend a minority or poor person.
Oh here's another reality check, most of you rich kids on this forum act like you care about BLM but you contribute to the gentrification of black neighborhoods. You buy the property, increase the rent, price out minorities, replace Black/Latino culture with your stupid Liberal Hippy nonsense, eg Starbucks, CrossFit, overpriced Vegan Restaurants, stupid slam poetry clubs and pathetic fake art galleries where every artwork is a plain white board.
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