Comments (90)

Jan 21, 2008

I second this.

Jan 22, 2008

right?

Jan 23, 2008

Have a bunch of friends who went to hedge funds recently so I'll see if they can maybe do a guest post or something. Their jobs sounds pretty fun, some travel (depends on fund etc.), modeling, going to meetings, very little stupid crap like banking.

The way my friend described it was, "In banking, modeling is the most interesting part of the job, in this job it's the least interesting part."

Jan 23, 2008

"In banking, modeling is the most interesting part of the job, in this job it's the least interesting part."

I already like the sound of that...

    • 1
Jan 24, 2008

Every time someone mentions modeling I'm always tempted to make a really bad pun joke.

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Jan 24, 2008

What's the pun joke

Best Response
Jan 24, 2008

This sort of depends on the strategy and internal structure of your fund. My experience has been in the deep value/activist side of the equation, in which I believe the research process is quite similar to that of a long/short fund, and not entirely different than any other sort of fundamentals-focused investment vehicle. In this instance, your entire life will be a mix of:

1) Reading through large stacks of SEC filings, analyst reports, news and economic data

2) Chatting with target company management. Often this includes traveling out to the company's headquarters.

3) Attending shareholder meetings and industry conferences

4) Most hedge funds have a daily or weekly strategy meeting which you will have to attend. These are fun, because it's when the intelligence and ambition of your colleagues are most on display. This can really get your blood pumping, if you're authentically into this stuff.

5) "Special" internal strategy meetings involving individual deals, which could involve a target company or could involve strategic alternatives for the hedge fund itself.

6) Putting all of this information into a model, making the model perfect. Occasionally presentations are required for various purposes, but it is not a main focus, generally. Some funds require full writeups on each investment (which I prefer to do, because it helps gather my thoughts and, i find, it is easier to catch any logical lapses when you have to write everything down). Other funds will just let you show a model and tell the qualitative side verbally, or in a bulleted email.

7) Depending on the fund, you might have to assist in the marketing process, including putting together investor presentations and assisting with the creation of investor letters, assembling portfolio data, etc. You might also have to meet with potential or existing investors, in your office or somewhere else, to attract or retain capital for the fund.

8) Due diligence is significantly more investigative in a hedge fund than in a bank (i think -- i have never worked in a bank), insofar as you will be on the phone frequently, with various people that you would never expect could be useful, trying to figure out the value of things that are difficult to pin down. For example, I once spoke with numerous retired park rangers living in the forest in PA to try and get a better sense of the size, quality, and value of a company's 80,000 acres of timberland holdings in that area. In another instance, I spoke with numerous geologists specializing in the appalachian basin's deep devonian shale to try and get some data points to determine the value of an undrilled patch of natural gas acreage that a completely non-oil related company owned. This stuff is always fun.

Hope this was useful.

    • 9
Jan 24, 2008

Very useful. Thank you. And, it DOES sound like fun. Are you a 1st yr/2nd yr/3rd yr HF analyst? If you're not a 1st/2nd yr HF analyst, what does a 1st/2nd yr HF analyst do? If seems the above description is for older, more experienced analysts.

May 4, 2010
F9 - Update:

Very useful. Thank you. And, it DOES sound like fun. Are you a 1st yr/2nd yr/3rd yr HF analyst? If you're not a 1st/2nd yr HF analyst, what does a 1st/2nd yr HF analyst do? If seems the above description is for older, more experienced analysts.

I'm an Analyst intern, and I do all the stuff he lists above... so it applies to all 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year analysts.

Jan 24, 2008

Buyside usually runs pretty lean, which results in a lot of responsibility for the younger guys. Really the biggest draw seems to be not having to do all the client-facing bullshit that you have to do as a banker or consultant, which is what really kills you moreso than the hours or stress or anything like that.

Jan 24, 2008

looking at companies, looking at companies, looking at companies.

    • 1
May 5, 2010

Yeah all analysts do this.

--
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say."

May 5, 2010

I'm a 1st year analyst and I do everything EricJM describes and:
1) Board Meetings. (At the one I attended yesterday, they had to reschedule a future event because half the directors were going to Davos). First World problems.
2) Sell ideas to other funds. I love this part of the job. It's like a real life VIC/SumZero.
3) Go to random events (mostly ipo/analyst/industry events) to meet people. Usually good food/booze. This part is also great.
4) Make in principle deals. That is to say: I have the authority to source, structure (to any level of complexity) and commit to deals--subject only to final approval by the fund manager--allocating large sums of capital. At the age of 22, I only try not to let this go to my head.

I agree that modeling is the least interesting part of the job. But I don't have to do that much of it and the chance to do all of this other stuff makes it worth it. Hours were rough at the beginning, but it's settled down to about 50-55 hours/week on average. It hasn't hit more than 70 hours/week in at least 6 months.

May 5, 2010
HFAnalyst:

I'm a 1st year analyst and I do everything EricJM describes and:
1) Board Meetings. (At the one I attended yesterday, they had to reschedule a future event because half the directors were going to Davos). First World problems.
2) Sell ideas to other funds. I love this part of the job. It's like a real life VIC/SumZero.
3) Go to random events (mostly ipo/analyst/industry events) to meet people. Usually good food/booze. This part is also great.
4) Make in principle deals. That is to say: I have the authority to source, structure (to any level of complexity) and commit to deals--subject only to final approval by the fund manager--allocating large sums of capital. At the age of 22, I only try not to let this go to my head.

I agree that modeling is the least interesting part of the job. But I don't have to do that much of it and the chance to do all of this other stuff makes it worth it. Hours were rough at the beginning, but it's settled down to about 50-55 hours/week on average. It hasn't hit more than 70 hours/week in at least 6 months.

How big is your fund? And did you graduate from an ivy?

May 5, 2010
PublicEnemy:
HFAnalyst:

I'm a 1st year analyst and I do everything EricJM describes and:
1) Board Meetings. (At the one I attended yesterday, they had to reschedule a future event because half the directors were going to Davos). First World problems.
2) Sell ideas to other funds. I love this part of the job. It's like a real life VIC/SumZero.
3) Go to random events (mostly ipo/analyst/industry events) to meet people. Usually good food/booze. This part is also great.
4) Make in principle deals. That is to say: I have the authority to source, structure (to any level of complexity) and commit to deals--subject only to final approval by the fund manager--allocating large sums of capital. At the age of 22, I only try not to let this go to my head.

I agree that modeling is the least interesting part of the job. But I don't have to do that much of it and the chance to do all of this other stuff makes it worth it. Hours were rough at the beginning, but it's settled down to about 50-55 hours/week on average. It hasn't hit more than 70 hours/week in at least 6 months.

How big is your fund? And did you graduate from an ivy?

I work at a BRIC fund that is medium size by global standards and one of the largest in the country we focus on.

I graduated from a target with a 3.9/4.0

May 5, 2010

i trade/manage money at a hedge fund, but my day is no different in most ways then when i was a strategist. I work in global macro which is much different then the equity people that are most common this board in that risk is 24 hours a day.

A typical day is as follows:
545am Get to work, print up and read overnight research pieces both from internal analysts and from the sell-side. Check in with traders in London for color on the overnight session.
830am If its a Monday my group has a group meeting where we go over the calendar for the week, talk about new trade ideas, and discuss management of the positions we already have on. We also do meetings like this in front of big events such as central bank meetings and payroll reports to go over our thoughts and strategies ahead of these events.
930am-430p Read research, watch markets, do trades if appropriate, talk to sell-side analysts and traders, talk to coworkers about markets, go over charts, work on my own creations (model-type things). Sometimes go to meetings with economists and traders from sell-side who come into our office.
430p leave call levels with our internal nightdesk and go home.
5-9p Go do something social
9p log into my computer from home and check on overseas markets. chat online with our internal nightdesk and with sell-side guys in Australia, New Zealand, Tokyo, etc. This is what i'm doing now.
10p go to sleep
2am get call from nightdesk...something happened overseas and a position is running badly against me. Drag myself back to my computer, log in, and see whats happening. decide to do nothing. i can still get 2 hours of sleep if i go back to bed. This happens about 20% of nights.
545am do it again!

    • 2
May 7, 2010
Bondarb:

i trade/manage money at a hedge fund, but my day is no different in most ways then when i was a strategist. I work in global macro which is much different then the equity people that are most common this board in that risk is 24 hours a day.

A typical day is as follows:
545am Get to work, print up and read overnight research pieces both from internal analysts and from the sell-side. Check in with traders in London for color on the overnight session.
830am If its a Monday my group has a group meeting where we go over the calendar for the week, talk about new trade ideas, and discuss management of the positions we already have on. We also do meetings like this in front of big events such as central bank meetings and payroll reports to go over our thoughts and strategies ahead of these events.
930am-430p Read research, watch markets, do trades if appropriate, talk to sell-side analysts and traders, talk to coworkers about markets, go over charts, work on my own creations (model-type things). Sometimes go to meetings with economists and traders from sell-side who come into our office.
430p leave call levels with our internal nightdesk and go home.
5-9p Go do something social
9p log into my computer from home and check on overseas markets. chat online with our internal nightdesk and with sell-side guys in Australia, New Zealand, Tokyo, etc. This is what i'm doing now.
10p go to sleep
2am get call from nightdesk...something happened overseas and a position is running badly against me. Drag myself back to my computer, log in, and see whats happening. decide to do nothing. i can still get 2 hours of sleep if i go back to bed. This happens about 20% of nights.
545am do it again!

Your work seems really interesting. I'm surprised that you have the stamina to go out at night despite having to wake up so early next morning.

May 7, 2010
Bondarb:

i trade/manage money at a hedge fund, but my day is no different in most ways then when i was a strategist. I work in global macro which is much different then the equity people that are most common this board in that risk is 24 hours a day.

A typical day is as follows:
545am Get to work, print up and read overnight research pieces both from internal analysts and from the sell-side. Check in with traders in London for color on the overnight session.
830am If its a Monday my group has a group meeting where we go over the calendar for the week, talk about new trade ideas, and discuss management of the positions we already have on. We also do meetings like this in front of big events such as central bank meetings and payroll reports to go over our thoughts and strategies ahead of these events.
930am-430p Read research, watch markets, do trades if appropriate, talk to sell-side analysts and traders, talk to coworkers about markets, go over charts, work on my own creations (model-type things). Sometimes go to meetings with economists and traders from sell-side who come into our office.
430p leave call levels with our internal nightdesk and go home.
5-9p Go do something social
9p log into my computer from home and check on overseas markets. chat online with our internal nightdesk and with sell-side guys in Australia, New Zealand, Tokyo, etc. This is what i'm doing now.
10p go to sleep
2am get call from nightdesk...something happened overseas and a position is running badly against me. Drag myself back to my computer, log in, and see whats happening. decide to do nothing. i can still get 2 hours of sleep if i go back to bed. This happens about 20% of nights.
545am do it again!

your job sounds like a beautiful arrangement.

May 7, 2010
Bondarb:

i trade/manage money at a hedge fund, but my day is no different in most ways then when i was a strategist. I work in global macro which is much different then the equity people that are most common this board in that risk is 24 hours a day.

A typical day is as follows:
545am Get to work, print up and read overnight research pieces both from internal analysts and from the sell-side. Check in with traders in London for color on the overnight session.
830am If its a Monday my group has a group meeting where we go over the calendar for the week, talk about new trade ideas, and discuss management of the positions we already have on. We also do meetings like this in front of big events such as central bank meetings and payroll reports to go over our thoughts and strategies ahead of these events.
930am-430p Read research, watch markets, do trades if appropriate, talk to sell-side analysts and traders, talk to coworkers about markets, go over charts, work on my own creations (model-type things). Sometimes go to meetings with economists and traders from sell-side who come into our office.
430p leave call levels with our internal nightdesk and go home.
5-9p Go do something social
9p log into my computer from home and check on overseas markets. chat online with our internal nightdesk and with sell-side guys in Australia, New Zealand, Tokyo, etc. This is what i'm doing now.
10p go to sleep
2am get call from nightdesk...something happened overseas and a position is running badly against me. Drag myself back to my computer, log in, and see whats happening. decide to do nothing. i can still get 2 hours of sleep if i go back to bed. This happens about 20% of nights.
545am do it again!

i basically do this already as a UG student (read about markets all day)... but damn it sounds great to just read about markets and talk to people about them all day as a full time job... i wish more people i knew were into markets so that I could talk to more people about it

Jan 29, 2012
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

but damn it sounds great to just read about markets and talk to people about them all day as a full time job...

No shit!

Jun 1, 2013
Bondarb:

work on my own creations (model-type things)

could you elaborate on this please? maybe some examples?

Jun 2, 2013
LLcoolJ:
Bondarb:

work on my own creations (model-type things)

could you elaborate on this please? maybe some examples?

I do alot of work on "fair values" for short-term interest rates in different countries...also have models that help me with things like position sizing/risk management and have spreadsheets that filter through alot of securities looking for certain technical breaks. I am not a really sophisticated programmer in any way, but over the years i have learned some basic stuff that has been helpful.

May 6, 2010

curious, what kind of comp do you get at that fund at 22?

May 7, 2010

bondarb, can i ask what you trade? emerging markets? bonds? can i ask where your office is?

May 7, 2010

Curious about comp. for people in your position too. Obviously we don't expect you to comment on your pay but if you could share the ball park range it would be very insightful.

Cheers

May 7, 2010

Curious about comp. for people in your position too. Obviously we don't expect you to comment on your pay but if you could share the ball park range it would be very insightful.

Cheers

May 7, 2010
2226416:

Curious about comp. for people in your position too. Obviously we don't expect you to comment on your pay but if you could share the ball park range it would be very insightful.

Cheers

I earn about the same as an I banking analyst, but obviously in a much more variable breakup. I work 50-55/hrs a week now so I'm not complaining. That said, I don't do this for the money. In all honesty, I'd probably pay to have this job.

May 7, 2010

Good to hear! Thanks for sharing.

May 7, 2010

can you all go into the recruiting process in more detail? anything on l/s, deep value funds would be great.

May 9, 2010
eresearcher:

can you all go into the recruiting process in more detail? anything on l/s, deep value funds would be great.

My understanding is that for all but the megafunds, it's networking. Process after that is completely nonstandard, and could vary from a multi-round grilling to a relatively light session. Another key way people get in is the internship route. Which if done through networking might allow you to skip any sort of interview process.

May 9, 2010

my understanding of recruiting from friend who is a 1st year and going through the process with l/s and event driven funds is 3 interviews, one with accounting/valuation/fit, one where you're given a stock to analyze and one to pitch your own idea.

May 9, 2010

thanks guys very helpful. when is the best time to begin networking for such a thing if you're at a bb? All the PE stuff starts ridiculously early, so I wasn't sure. Any megafunds in particular that favor junior ER people instead of banking analysts?

Jan 22, 2012

bump.

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,

Go Bucks!!

Jan 26, 2012

I don't think I have time to do a full week now, but I'll review yesterday. I am an analyst and I mostly do relatively low liquidity profile risks . Thus, I am less chained to my desk during a typical day than some others. Most markets I operate in trade in size a few times a day, though there is a pretty broad spectrum. This is in contrast to equity markets where you can typically transact pretty much instantaneously.

6:30 am-arrive at work, read news and sell side research. My PM got axed on something with a very short fuse over the weekend, which I will now refer to as "The Trade". This is a little early for me, more typical is 7:00-7:30 or so.

8:00 am - speak with one of our sales coverage people at a BB. I've been in a running conversation around ways to source the risk my PM wants for The Trade for several days with a couple different people at a couple different banks. This conversation is very helpful and nails down one of the last outstanding questions in The Trade I've been going through for the last several days.

8:30 am - sit down with several S&T folks from a different BB pitching us on a couple of different ideas/their platform. This meeting is unusually useful, and unusually long, and my PM drops in.

~10:30 am - back at my desk and briefly discuss results from my work on The Trade with my PM before we both get back to work. I am criticized for being insufficiently precise in my identification of traded instruments to hedge some of the risks in The Trade. This is not a particularly substantive criticism, though it is fair, and reach out to sales coverage again, work through some math and make minor revisions to my slides. This process lasts intermittently for the rest of the day and I send out a revised deck before I go home. Note my slides are not terribly pretty, nor are they required to be. They are for internal use only.

~1:30 pm - somebody is working a big order in one of my markets. We're pretty full exposure wise there, but pricing is good enough I want to add to the position. I check with my PM, get the nod and one of our traders works the order. It goes well.

4:30 pm - I am asked by a different PM, who is not among my bosses, to help with some analysis in an area where I have expertise and his team does not. This is a little annoying, but not worth complaining about unless it turns out to be a lot of work.

7:30 pm - finish my slides and send them out.

8:00 pm - PM reviews them and they pass this time. I will be presenting The Trade to him formally, including my rec, tomorrow.

    • 1
Jan 28, 2012
Marked to Market:

I don't think I have time to do a full week now, but I'll review yesterday. I am an analyst and I mostly do relatively low liquidity profile risks . Thus, I am less chained to my desk during a typical day than some others. Most markets I operate in trade in size a few times a day, though there is a pretty broad spectrum. This is in contrast to equity markets where you can typically transact pretty much instantaneously.

6:30 am-arrive at work, read news and sell side research. My PM got axed on something with a very short fuse over the weekend, which I will now refer to as "The Trade". This is a little early for me, more typical is 7:00-7:30 or so.

8:00 am - speak with one of our sales coverage people at a BB. I've been in a running conversation around ways to source the risk my PM wants for The Trade for several days with a couple different people at a couple different banks. This conversation is very helpful and nails down one of the last outstanding questions in The Trade I've been going through for the last several days.

8:30 am - sit down with several S&T folks from a different BB pitching us on a couple of different ideas/their platform. This meeting is unusually useful, and unusually long, and my PM drops in.

~10:30 am - back at my desk and briefly discuss results from my work on The Trade with my PM before we both get back to work. I am criticized for being insufficiently precise in my identification of traded instruments to hedge some of the risks in The Trade. This is not a particularly substantive criticism, though it is fair, and reach out to sales coverage again, work through some math and make minor revisions to my slides. This process lasts intermittently for the rest of the day and I send out a revised deck before I go home. Note my slides are not terribly pretty, nor are they required to be. They are for internal use only.

~1:30 pm - somebody is working a big order in one of my markets. We're pretty full exposure wise there, but pricing is good enough I want to add to the position. I check with my PM, get the nod and one of our traders works the order. It goes well.

4:30 pm - I am asked by a different PM, who is not among my bosses, to help with some analysis in an area where I have expertise and his team does not. This is a little annoying, but not worth complaining about unless it turns out to be a lot of work.

7:30 pm - finish my slides and send them out.

8:00 pm - PM reviews them and they pass this time. I will be presenting The Trade to him formally, including my rec, tomorrow.

Thanks, great post

+1 sb

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,

Go Bucks!!

    • 2
Jan 29, 2012

This thread makes working for a hedge fund sound awesome

Feb 4, 2012

hf sounds like the fucking promise land... just way better

Feb 5, 2012

I'm an analyst at a med-to-large credit fund (although we invest throughout the cap structure including common and do macro as well).

Day in the life:

645-700: arrive to work.

700-745: Read news throughout the world focusing on trades we have on or interesting developments that could lend themselves to new trades. Take notes of levels on our trades. Read through some of the street's trader/sales notes from Asia/Europe. Scan some sell side research reports that came out overnight.

745: PM normally has arrived by now and I give him a 5-10 minute update on what I've learned from above. We discuss a plan of action for the day depending on what I've found and his thoughts on what's going on. I sit next to him on a trading desk so we talk throughout the day.

745-noon: All depends on what's going on. Could be listening to earnings calls. Reading sell side research. Speaking with the sell side about trade ideas. Doing some modeling. Throughout this time if I see a trade idea I'll either execute it on the top or run it through my PM depending on size.

Noon: Eat lunch speak with PM about the morning.

1230-1800: More of the same. After the close I'll listen to earnings calls while marking my book with updated levels.

1800-1900: I'll leave around this time with a few things I want to read that night or I'll head out with sell side S&T/research folks for drinks or dinner.

I'll read some stuff at home probably 30-45 mins worth. Then rinse/repeat. I normally wake up in the middle of the night to check Asia/Europe although I don't set my alarm to do this it just normally happens (insomnia?). Normally I don't go in on the weekends but do some reading.

I know this is vague but a typical day varies a lot. Feel free to ask about specifics.

Sep 21, 2018

Very interested, how did you break into the hedge fund world.

Feb 6, 2012

CS Arb - What is your background? From the sounds of it you have your own P&L so I assume you're somewhat senior at the fund?

Feb 7, 2012
CatsLHP:

CS Arb - What is your background? From the sounds of it you have your own P&L so I assume you're somewhat senior at the fund?

I have a BS in finance (no other education or letters after my name), 7 years of work experience at two major mutual fund complexes and 1 year at my current fund. I feel lucky that I'm in my seat given the amount of competition there was in 2011. I got my job because I was a good fit with the people at my fund who are truly nice people as opposed to many people in our industry.

I have a book that roles up into my PM's P&L.

Feb 6, 2012

I'm an analyst at a large quant global macro fund. I work in more of a market research/systems development role, less of a trading role (actually considered more FO where I work).

7:30-7:45: Arrive to work.

7:45-8:30: Scan European markets, Read dealer research pieces, news sources, trader commentary in areas on which I am responsible for providing coverage.

8:30-10:00: Various meetings with research team/senior PMs on market activity and trade performance recap.

10:00-Noon: Core research work. Algorithm development & simulation.

Noon: Lunch with team.

12:30-4:00:Client communication/market updates & synthesis on coverage areas.

5:00-6:00: Gym,

6:00-8:30: Dinner at desk. Research/programming/walking through work with PMs.

8:30-8:45: Leave with dealer/internal research.

9:00-10:30: Read through research while watching Sportscenter and relaxing.

Go to sleep. Do it again. Lazy Fridays (especially during the summer) and typically no more than a couple hours from home on Sunday (though this can change depending on what's happening in Asian markets on Sunday).

Feb 7, 2012
yahoo:

I'm an analyst at a large quant global macro fund. I work in more of a market research/systems development role, less of a trading role (actually considered more FO where I work).

7:30-7:45: Arrive to work.

7:45-8:30: Scan European markets, Read dealer research pieces, news sources, trader commentary in areas on which I am responsible for providing coverage.

8:30-10:00: Various meetings with research team/senior PMs on market activity and trade performance recap.

10:00-Noon: Core research work. Algorithm development & simulation.

Noon: Lunch with team.

12:30-4:00:Client communication/market updates & synthesis on coverage areas.

5:00-6:00: Gym,

6:00-8:30: Dinner at desk. Research/programming/walking through work with PMs.

8:30-8:45: Leave with dealer/internal research.

9:00-10:30: Read through research while watching Sportscenter and relaxing.

Go to sleep. Do it again. Lazy Fridays (especially during the summer) and typically no more than a couple hours from home on Sunday (though this can change depending on what's happening in Asian markets on Sunday).

Gym break at that time is a pretty good idea.

Jul 4, 2012

Sorry to bring this topic up again, but it has some pretty nice information in it and I have to ask a question about this whole HF stuff.

I don't really get why HF prefer to recruit banking analysts. Everything you do at a HF seems to be very market oriented, so why would a HF recruit a banking analyst who has 2 or 3 years of experience in M&A? Just for the modelling part that is involved? Furthermore, ER seems to be a better fit for HF than IBD/M&A, or am I missing something?

Would love to hear your opinions on this.

Apr 2, 2013

You work a lot! What about girlfriends/wives etc?

Apr 23, 2013

Great to hear about some macro funds I feel like WSO is dominated by bankers/fundamental equity HFs. Can you macro HFers out there give us some more color on what the opportunity is like? Specifically:
1. How many macro opportunities are there out there compared to fundamental equity funds?
2. What type of backgrounds do they favor(and would a FICC ST background be looked favorably upon)?
3. What is the comp and heiarchy like at a macrofund compared to the fundamental funds we hear about on WSO? It seems like macro funds give you the opportunity to take risk a lot earlier on. Does that inherently make the job more risky(one bad year and you're out?)
4. Where is the edge for macro funds and how do their performances compare to their fundamental counterparts? It seems like unless you're BW or Rentech, your fund is underperforming the market. Especially for funds that are not trading equities, where is your edge? It's not like you're invested in the equities market, where stocks generally rise over time. If you're investing in something like FX or commodites, the market seems more like a zero sum game.

May 19, 2013
confused23:

Great to hear about some macro funds I feel like WSO is dominated by bankers/fundamental equity HFs. Can you macro HFers out there give us some more color on what the opportunity is like? Specifically:
1. How many macro opportunities are there out there compared to fundamental equity funds?
2. What type of backgrounds do they favor(and would a FICC ST background be looked favorably upon)?
3. What is the comp and heiarchy like at a macrofund compared to the fundamental funds we hear about on WSO? It seems like macro funds give you the opportunity to take risk a lot earlier on. Does that inherently make the job more risky(one bad year and you're out?)
4. Where is the edge for macro funds and how do their performances compare to their fundamental counterparts? It seems like unless you're BW or Rentech, your fund is underperforming the market. Especially for funds that are not trading equities, where is your edge? It's not like you're invested in the equities market, where stocks generally rise over time. If you're investing in something like FX or commodites, the market seems more like a zero sum game.

1) dont know
2) All different type of backgrounds but fixed income and FX definitely are the core of classic macro trading. But in general macro funds draw a very eclectic mix of people from all sorts of places.
3) Large macro funds do not generally let people take risk at a young age at all. I am in my early 30s and I believe I am still the youngest PM at the firm I work for (altho sadly im not as young as ai used to be). Thats not to say young people cant make very good money, but generally they arent risk-takers they are analysts, traders, etc. Of course there are exceptions but i would say the median age of a PM where i work is 43ish years old with 90% between ages of 37 and 50.
4) Different portfolio managers/risk-takers derive their edge in different ways but yes the market is a zero sum game and when i win somebody else loses.

    • 1
Apr 30, 2013

relative value: at my desk by 5:30am, leave around 7pm...read research ~1-2 more hrs when I go home. Repeat.

Jun 1, 2013

Just read through this, all great info, very helpful. Definitely interesting to hear things from the macro side.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Jun 1, 2013

I'm an undergrad student majoring in finance and minoring in economics. Does anyone think this could help me eventually land a role at a macro fund? I've been wanting to know about some macro funds and how they're similar/different and what some typical days are like, i.e., what type of research methods do you use, how do you know to invest, how do you pitch something, how do you evaluate, sorry if i'm asking too in depth. Just really curious!

Jun 2, 2013

Mine:

-In around 4:30 or 5:00am. Coffee, bagel, coffee, bagel... in that order.

-Read emails, new research notes on names I cover or care about, any relevant news and any macro stuff that might be important how the market is going to move.

-Make calls as necessary and check in with traders and client relations personnel to see if there's anything pressing we need to act on during market hours

-6:30am market opens, spend most of the day reading filings and reports, other general diligence like speaking with operators, sell-siders, meetings with whoever, etc. Usually hit the gym right before the lunchtime slowdown.

-1:30pm market close, daily meeting with research team to check up on what everyone's been doing, ask any questions to analysts about the name they're currently looking at and/or anything significant that's happened with portfolio names. I want every analyst to have a decent understanding of every name we own so we use this meeting to get everyone acquainted with names and also to keep tabs on analysts' feelings on any action we should take with regards to their names.

-2:00 or 2:30pm, tie up any loose ends from the trading day and print out whatever shit I want to read when I get home. Even if I don't have an actionable interest in the company, and usually at the expense of my fiancee, I like to read an annual report every night. You can never know enough businesses.

-Typically home by 2:30pm or 3:00pm.

Jun 3, 2013
BlackHat:

Mine:

-In around 4:30 or 5:00am. Coffee, bagel, coffee, bagel... in that order.

-Read emails, new research notes on names I cover or care about, any relevant news and any macro stuff that might be important how the market is going to move.

-Make calls as necessary and check in with traders and client relations personnel to see if there's anything pressing we need to act on during market hours

-6:30am market opens, spend most of the day reading filings and reports, other general diligence like speaking with operators, sell-siders, meetings with whoever, etc. Usually hit the gym right before the lunchtime slowdown.

-1:30pm market close, daily meeting with research team to check up on what everyone's been doing, ask any questions to analysts about the name they're currently looking at and/or anything significant that's happened with portfolio names. I want every analyst to have a decent understanding of every name we own so we use this meeting to get everyone acquainted with names and also to keep tabs on analysts' feelings on any action we should take with regards to their names.

-2:00 or 2:30pm, tie up any loose ends from the trading day and print out whatever shit I want to read when I get home. Even if I don't have an actionable interest in the company, and usually at the expense of my fiancee, I like to read an annual report every night. You can never know enough businesses.

-Typically home by 2:30pm or 3:00pm.

Living the dream on the West Coast?

Jun 3, 2013
BlackHat:

-1:30pm market close...

I didn't know the market stays open an extra half hour on the west coast :-)

Jun 3, 2013

If I was in a hiring position, I imagine my list would be... (buzzword alert)

Mandatory:
Intellectually Curious
Passionate
Ethical
Pretty smart

Bonus points (in descending order of importance):
Creative
Good communicator / Personable
Extremely smart
Self critical / Introspective
Recommended by my investors
Hard-worker
Lack of prior investing experience
Attention to detail
Loyalty

Tie breakers:
Might bring new capital
Underrepresented status

Jun 3, 2013
Anchor:

If I was in a hiring position, I imagine my list would be... (buzzword alert)

Mandatory:

Intellectually Curious

Passionate

Ethical

Pretty smart

Bonus points (in descending order of importance):

Creative

Good communicator / Personable

Extremely smart

Self critical / Introspective

Recommended by my investors

Hard-worker

Lack of prior investing experience

Attention to detail

Loyalty

Tie breakers:

Might bring new capital

Underrepresented status

You want a person with a lack of investing experience?

Jun 3, 2013

Kind of really depends on what type of fund you're interested in working for...

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Jun 3, 2013

The ability to talk shit about a company that's doing just fine and publicly trash it in the media (and to anyone else who would listen) to cause a crisis in the stock price, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially for companies that rely on confidence to conduct business, like financial services firms.

Jun 3, 2013

very interested as well

Jun 3, 2013

Hedge fund analysts don't publish their reports..try looking for sell-side equity research reports instead.

Jun 3, 2013
Jun 3, 2013

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/on-the-job-w...
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/idea-generat...

most actual reports are probably never published, just pitched to the PM and either acted upon or trashed, I doubt you'll find some stuff like that.

for shops that are run like hedge funds, I'd read annual reports from Sequoia Fund & anything Brandes, and also check out http://www.beyondproxy.com/ they often put up opinions on stocks from hedge fund types. it's all heavily biased towards value, but should give you what you want

Jun 3, 2013

regardless of whether you're doing actual analysis or "back office" work, i would view this as a good opportunity to do something that most people your age would never get the chance to do.

regardless of what others might tell you, this type of experience will help you land a banking job if everything else (i.e. gpa, ecs, etc.) all falls in line.

i spent two years at a bb, and i can tell you for a fact that not everyone had a summer internship at a bb or other investment bank. there were a lot of kids who spent their summers doing pwm, retail brokerage, and even other non-banking related activities such as working for northwestern mutual. what counts is your background (i.e. good gpa, good ecs, well rounded, etc.), your ability to interview well, and your passion/enthusiasm for doing very mundane work with a good attitude.

however, i will caveat the above statements by saying that in general, while it's not impossible to get into banking from drexel, it will be a lot easier if you attend one of the schools you previously listed. reason being that schools like nyu and indiana generally have pre-established recruiting relationships while drexel does not. it's far easier to get a job through on-campus recruiting than via alumni networking or internet submissions.

Jun 3, 2013

Thank you very much for your well thought out reply. I greatly appreciate your input.

I think I am 75% sure that I am going to pursue the opportunity. Like you have said, not many people my age get this opportunity, let alone from an average school such as Drexel. Also, I have figured out a way to keep taking classes to increase my GPA. I am pretty sure I can maintain steady grades, and successfully transfer. This way, I can have the cake and eat it too!

Of course I am risking the chances of transferring to say, Indiana as the lesser credits each term translates a lesser GPA. However, I do feel it is worth it. Given only the two opportunities, however, which would you choose? Which one would get me closer to banking?

Again, your inputs are significantly valued.

Jun 3, 2013

why on earth would you want to go into banking if you could get a job at a >1bn fund... this is the question you should be concerned about.

Jun 3, 2013

Banking will give you some good core skills, but most people move on to PE after a few years at banking.

Jun 3, 2013

I would kill for an opportunity like this one. If you can turn that internship into a FT offer once you graduate (or even a return engagement after your junior year - are you in the 5 year co-op program?), that will be all the experience you need. With a few years in a HF and some proven experience, skills and contacts, I doubt any ibank would begrudge you the academic background. All you'd need to do is say "my GPA is what it is because I cared a lot more about the hedge fund than about my classes", and I think they'd understand. Hell, even caring more about classes than partying and women puts you ahead of a lot of college kids.

I bet with a few years at that fund, most IB associates interviewing you would love to swap jobs with you. It's a high demand opportunity you've got there, if you can convert it to a FT offer.

Jun 3, 2013

hey my name is colin wiseman and i am also going to be a soph at drexel. I would love to talk with you about how you got such an amazing oppertunity especially as a soph. I will go on my first co op this spring/summer and would love if we could meet up and talk about the co op or any other oppertunities the fund has. thanks alot and feel free to facebook me.

Jun 3, 2013

Thank you everyone, for your great inputs.

I have to call them in 10 minutes, and I've made up my mind. I will in fact take the internship, but at the same time take a couple of night classes to continue bringing my GPA up.

I promise to write more later.

Jun 3, 2013

lcsonka39,

To be blatantly honest, I can't give you a streamlined reason for wanting to get into Banking. It just has been a dream of mine for quite some time, and growing up a stones throw away from NYC has developed a love for the city.

ibanker2006,

You are absolutely right. But, I would love to be able to go through Banking first, and make that decision.

Denzera,

The fund has actually expressed interest in keeping their interns on board. 2 out of the 3 UPENN students that interned this past summer are actually working there part time. So, they do have the intentions to 'keep me' if I perform well. We will have to see. If that would be the case, I would be surrounded by Penn grads/students, and that may lead to an excellent recommendation towards grad school.

Thank you for the reassurance, that Ibanks would potentially look at this experience. If an associate would ever offer a trade, that would be extremely tempting!

colinwh16,

Ironic that two Drexel students would be on this board, huh? I don't have a 'facebook', or that 'space' thing, but I do have an e-mail. My e-mail is amc642 - @ - drexel.edu. Look forward to meeting you.

So again, thanks to everyone who gave input. I can still use some more feedback based on the decision I made. I still feel that bringing up my GPA is more important, but the opportunity is too hard to let up.

Thank you.

Jun 3, 2013

Very good read.

Jun 3, 2013

what? I've always thought that the ideal candidate is a long legged blonde...

Jun 3, 2013

that's bs... most investment/hf analysts are not analytical neither skeptical... even less contrarians..
They are just no-nonsense, results-oriented people.

Jun 3, 2013

I would be interested in reading a description of the ideal quant fund candidate...

Jun 3, 2013

Seems like a pretty good list from my perspective - main missing quality for me is the ability to cut through crap and visualize the big picture and what actually matters. From my (limited) experience, it is useful to be analytical and skeptical (disagreeing with Kraken on this), but if you cant cut through to what it is important, it is much more of a hindrance than a help.

Jun 3, 2013
Jun 3, 2013

Let me save you some time... You're too fucking retarded and lazy to ever work on Wall Street.

    • 1
Jun 3, 2013
BTbanker:

Let me save you some time... You're too fucking retarded and lazy to ever work on Wall Street.

yup.

Jun 3, 2013

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