Work stimulating drugs: PROs and CONS
Do people on the street abuse smart drugs? If so, how and who uses what?
From my personal experience, I can confidently say that Adderall/vyvance/concerta does wonders when you're trying to stay awake for the longest amount of time while at the same being able to focus well. But... each has the side effects of crashing afterwards, terrible dry mouth feel, constant bathroom breaks and sweating which kind of makes me not want to use it even when the urgent need is there.
Whether your experience of just basic knowledge, please share so people can make a knowledgeable choice before turning to stimulants:
Inderal/propranolol
Alleradd?
Modafinil?
Have been using Inderal/Propanolol occasionally for interviews and whatnot. It stops hand tremor if you get one easily (I got a neurological thing, nothing Alzheimer-y, just a quirk) and slows down you heartbeat, allowing you to think more clearly. Great combo if taken together with Xanax and Red Bull.
Propanolol removes physical manifestations of anxiety. Beta-blocker. Performers use this to relieve stage fright. Stacking with caffeine (a stimulant) is sort of counter-productive in a sense as caffeine would make you 'more' anxious.
Armodafinil (imo better version of Modafinil) allows you to stay awake for 15 hours without urges of tiredness - you might experience mild euphoria, but it isn't 'really' a stimulant feeling, you do get intense focus. Method of activation is via histamine system - long term effects not studied. Stacking with caffeine intensifies effects of both.
Don't stack both as this may (miniscule chance mind you though) lead to sudden death.
In terms of actual performance improvement - I honestly doubt that 'any' drugs give you an actual daily edge. However circumstantial use may provide less emotional stress and that in turn may improve performance (i.e. anxiety over a presentation, or working during the day without any sleep).
However psychological dependence is a risk if it does make things 'easier' and you'll fast realise that you've built up a tolerance.
Bottom-line; all smart drugs should be used prudently, the long-term risks are unstudied and the short-term benefits are short-lived if use is consistent.
@"Genocidal_twerker" @"setarcos" I appreciate the information, fellas. +1 SB'd
Very interesting. Now do you have to be prescribed for Inderal or Armodafinil? If so, whats the usual process/costs?
Armodafinil seems the same as adderall, since they're both based on histamines. Would side effects be the same though?
The reason I started this post is because I've been having to stay up very late very often due to work load, and sometimes all-nighters are a must and I just can't seem to be able to function 100% just on coffee. Thinking what option would be better (addy side effects are too disturbing for me)
I don't work 100 hour weeks so take what I say with a grain of salt. how's your cardiovascular health? how much water do you drink? how's your diet? I know people will say it's impossible to be healthy as an analyst and I appreciate that it's difficult if you're working 100 hours per week, but it's not impossible. have some doctor buddies doing ICU residency and they regularly pull all nighters, they say it's nothing more than coffee and good overall health (I say the adrenaline of trying to save a life probably helps) that will help you deal with this. my guess is your overall wellbeing could use some tweaks so you're not popping pills all the live long day.
agree
Modafinil is basically half filler and half active ingredient. Armodafinil is the full active ingredient.
Though there are anecdotal differences between the two, armodafinil is stronger (both last 15 hours) in so far as those 15 hours have the full effects (no weakening of effects).
No crashes on armodafinil/modafinil and would be the thing you should be looking into to staying away. Regular use however will cause tolerance to occur and I'd focus on what thebrofessor brings up for a more sustainable solution.
Technically both need prescriptions (in Aus at least - un aware of US laws) (they're used for narcolepsy mainly) but can be acquired online.
I have a Inderal prescription. PM me if you have any questions.
consider yourself PMd on this very old thread.
I have friends doing their analyst stints who use modafinil fairly regularly as an alternative to guzzling coffee all day. It seems to have virtually none of the short-term side effects associated with caffeine and stimulants in general - including no crash, which makes all-nighters more productive and sustainable. Although you have to balance that in your head with the lack of clarity around its longer term effects.
Would agree with setarcos about the importance of not using it regularly, taking weeklong or weekend breaks every once in a while, etc. Of course, you could probably say the same for any of the drugs you listed, and for caffeine too for that matter, which is in many ways as harmful as any of the other drugs mentioned, but analysts can't always pick the healthiest option...
Although I'm still in school and can't speak for Wall Street jobs, I swear by modafinil to get me through school. I started taking it at a time where I was feeling extemely burnt out with school and it instantly went away. I struggle with energy and keeping motivated just in general and without it I wouldn't be able to stick to my studies like I have been.
I only had one bad couple of weeks where I was having lots of chest pains and was considering going to a hospital. That's obviously a major con, but I also drink extreme amounts of caffine along with taking the modafinil so I attribute it to that
Where do you guys typically get these? I'm considering buying some online, but that's somewhat shady. For the past two weeksI've just felt completely exhausted after 4-5 hours of studying. Unfortunately, I'm at a point where I need to be doing minimum 10 hours a day for this and the next month. I've never taken any stimulants before, I don't even drink coffee, but I used to take five hour energy shots until they started to lose their effect recently. Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
I buy them online, which made me nervous at first but after ~60 pills later I can say they're safe
You're in high school and you only had a couple of weeks of chest pains where you considered going to the hospital? You need to take a step back and think how fucked up that sounds.
Im going to sound like an old man and when I was younger pills just weren't popular so I never bothered with them, but you should really learn how to power through long and stressful hours without pills. If you stay in this business for the long term your body's not going to be as forgiving it is when you're young and a thing like chest pains are going to be an actual heart attack. But if you don't learn to do it while you're younger, you'll always fall back to popping provigil or whatever the new drug is. It just can't be good for your body to take what is essentially a stimulant for the long term.
I decided to look up the drugs in this thread. Propanolol, it specifically states to NOT just suddenly stop taking your medication as you need your doctor to slowly reduce your dosage over time. So I love how one poster takes it off and on just for interviews, exactly how not to use the medicine. Pretty serious medication to be fucking with especially considering what it's intended for and the long list of potential complications. Modafinil, can be addicting and one of the longest lists of severe possible side-effects I've seen. I find it interesting that the posters above recommend charging ahead with other stimulants, red bull and caffeine, while taking those meds that effect the heart.
Out of everything listed above it sounds like you should go with Alleradd. Or... Nicotine is a stimulant, causes relaxation and alertness. So get a cigarette, have some coffee and a protein bar. Energy + stimulant + relaxation + alertness + more stimulant + protein and nicotine will cut your hunger. Maybe go for the e-cigarettes if you are more health conscious, I don't know whether they actually are less dangerous. But I'm pretty confident that is a far safer route than popping prescription heart meds and chasing it with droves of stimulants, especially if it's only for occasional use.
In closing, you don't need to be Pillbo Baggins to get your work done. This whole post just reads like someone who is desperately trying to fit into Hollywood's vision of what an investment banker does, in exactly the same way incoming analysts fret over which Hermes tie to buy. Wish you well.
I take Ritalin, because it's prescribed to me... Not because some guy on a thread recommended it to me. Be very careful with this OP.
MDMA all the way, takes away your urge to kill someone at work
I did read that Nicotine is the ONLY proven drug that will truly increase brain power. I've been curious about maybe chewing nicotine gum when needed
Just get some sleep
lol i used propranolol for tachycardia when i was a kiddo
it is a long term medicine, do not pop it for interviews you fools haha :D nway effect is overrated, makes you often kinda dizzy/sleepy etc. it can be good for your parents for example, to take very very low dosages in long term.. not for young people unless you have some medical condidition
regarding what @"thebrofessor" wrote, i def think you can be very healthy as an analyst i always considered myself a very healthy person, and analyst stint hasn't changed that a bit - you don't need to eat shitty food or push drugs to get through it really, and if you know how to lift heavy, few days a week of 1 hour anaerobic activity coupled with a bit of running/bike occasionally will do the job
as a matter of fact once i started working i actually bettered the quality of my food and supplement intake because i had more money than when i was a fkin student (and was broke all the time)
I'm currently taking Cellucor, and while I can't comment on how potent it is compared to the other drugs mentioned in this thread as this is my first time taking a drug of this kind, I can definitely say that it has improved my focus and alertness, especially in the 2nd half of the day when I usually run out of gas. Seems to also make me more talkative and outgoing, which I like as I'm a pretty reserved person in general. The side effects have been minimal as long as I drink a ton of water.
Hardest stuff I've ever done for work is Noexplode caffeine powder for a boxing bag, pad work or sparring session, then return to work and POWER POWER POWER through with the power and focus this stuff provides.
http://www.amazon.com/BSN-N-O-XPLODE-2-0-Blue-Servings/dp/B000GP5HP2
that is because you did not get you hands on the old jack3d ;) however, since i heard that jack3d does not work for everyone, if you are one of those, then you did not try c4
just as an interesting story i will add this:
a guy at my old gym used to take jack3d for like several months. dude is uneducated fool etc. typical profile you see at gyms here... nway, as he was building up tolerance on preworkout supplements he would increase the dosage. when he quit taking any of them because he had some kind of heart attack in the gym, he was on 13-14 scoops of jack3d that day... i remember him having to sit few times before that and saying that his chest hurts lol...
those times... everybody red in face, raging out and scratching their palms and head with their fingernails because of jack3d side effects hahah
i have no idea how you managed to do "brain work" with bsnnoexplode in your system /props
Take one scoop of Noexplode. Feel tingles over my skin. Go boxing for ~90 minutes. Grab dinner. Go back to work with FOCUS, ENERGY, and ZEAL!
The physical exertion likely helps get rid of some of the side effects.
I did take it once without exercising when I had a lot of work to power through. I was still able to focus well. But I didn't want to make a habit out of that.
These pre work-out supplements are full of shit and I would strongly advise not taking them regularly, if at all. As Brofessor said that are many basics thing to do to improve your stamina before considering taking these kinds of unregulated drugs.
deleted after rereading the post
I've heard some excellent things about modifinil. I know some people who take it and the effects were good. Great focus, mild euphoria, and the side effects aren't too bad.
Guys I think I have anxiety! I show so many signs of it and I feel like it will get in the way of my career. During an informational interview I started feeling like I was on fire burning up when I was stumbling my words and it was a chain effect and felt so awkward and said stupid ass things. I always assume the worst for unreasonable situations and get great fear. Every social mistake I think about it so much and it upsets my stomach.
It is like a mix of perfectionism, where I feel I failed every test when I get an A on it afterwards, and just getting nervous talking to important people or girls. I get so hot when I am nervous for situations like this I feel like even if I get an interview will get dinged right away.
I casually mentioned it to my mom but she isn't keen on getting prescribed drugs on this! I am also too scared to talk to the doctor about this. Anyone here have any similar situations? Also how effective is anti-anxiety medicines for interviews and such.
I can't say I'm in a similar situation but, just from reading your post, it sounds like the first thing you need to do is relax. Stimulants should always be a last resort. I think your problems are much more in your control (mental) than you may believe. Try swimming or weightlifting to take the edge off as well.
In your particular case @"Blackhawks4" you should definitely stay away from any drugs, especially stimulants discussed in this post. Your problem is in your mind, nothing wrong with your health, and you don't have an urgent need of staying up for lengthy periods of time. Such drugs will only take you deeper into yourself and turn into depression. STAY AWAY, it is not a last resort.
I suggest you read Dale Carnegie's "How to stop worrying and start living" as it's a great tool for learning how to relax and control your mind. Sports is another great source to your problem.
practice, practice, practice
not a thread for you but my intuition tells me that the damage has been done already so please stay safe ;)
coke
modafinil is too weak. adderall is good
I heard that NZT-48 can make miracles, give it a try
Have fun with alzheimer's guys
black coffee
So how do these things compare against good ol' fashion adderall?
I treat those who take these drugs as retards. Yes yes yes... 120 hours a week and throw me whatever excuses you got, you are a fking moron for having to take those unless you are really medically diagnosed.
Just eat well, sleep as much as possible, don't drink coffee regularly. You really shouldn't be using any of these things on this thread. And if you are, you're fucking retarded.
^^^ This. "Why did you take this medication?" "Well doctor/officer, have you ever heard of Wall Street Oasis? A monkey there told me to." "Get this kid to the ER, apparently he's taking LSD as well."
I did adderall some 10yrs. ago in college. Now it makes me feel too cracked out etc.
Now I take some caffeine in the morning and half a 24 hour Claritin-D, it's kind of speedy etc. but not too crazy.
Been wanting to try modafinil, there's lots of reviews online on bulletproof exec. Don't want to order it though BC legally it's in the same category (I think schedule 3) as Valium. I'm sure it'd be fine, I just don't know, and getting a script at 33 yrs. old is impossible. And no thanks having a record for getting busted ordering drugs online-- have fun explaining that!
Downside is they all kill my appetite, which I really hate. Noexplode feels good working out, then I just want it out of my body. And I'm not about to take a benzo (xanax etc.) to counteract it.
I have used Modafinil a few times, just because I was damn curious as to what effect it does have. You know that zone when you are one with what you are doing and the world just fades away into background for those few hours. Honestly, yes it does take you into that kind of zone. But was it very different than what you normally couldn't have got? No. But getting into these zones of hyper effectiveness normally doesn't happen as there are a few pre-requisites I have noticed for these days. It has to be a good day emotionally, gotta be in good health (preferably a non-exhausting workout in morning) and have a clear chunk of work defined already in mind.
It doesn't add any IQ points, you are just able to focus a lot better. So I wouldn't recommend to use these as daily, but yeah occasionally it might help. Usually you can park some tougher nuts to crack (requiring high levels of focus) for particular days, and when you have 8-10 hours of such work defined, pop one and go bananas on it.
PS: Not good on days when you need to be emotionally involved with anyone. Your emotional levels drop, you just become a selfish bastard who is focused on getting shit done.
coffee and snus is my drug of choice. Brings me up and down.
I was expecting to read some comments on coke and other drugs of choice on the desk.
I will write a full post on nootropics at some point. At my job on the buy side in Toronto, I have not seen or heard of anyone using any prescription drugs or otherwise. On the sell side, I heard it happens often enough, but on the down-low. The drug of choice is Adderall.
In New York, every time I visit, I meet someone who is on something. Wealth Management analysts in a bulge bracket firm were by far the most intense, and into experimenting with just about anything for recreational purposes.
At a small networking event in New York, every person who stayed past 10pm to talk to me admitted to using MDMA fairly regularly. They worked across many firms and in many different types of roles from a Partner in a Consulting firm, to Analyst through VP level in Finance.
I personally went deep into academic research on supplements as neuroscience is one of my hobbies. I am prescribed Adderall, but generally avoid it due to side effects. As an alternative, I swear by:
Here is a nice infographic summary of all the latest research on supplements http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/play/snake-oil-supplements/
Stay away from highly-addictive stimulants like Adderall. Nuvigil is much safer.
Source: anecdotal I always knew I was a genius, and my nosebleed test scores, flawless transcript, and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scholarships in high school seemed to support this delusion.
When I went to University (one of the world's most prestigious), I was introduced to Adderall IR and felt immortal. After commanding the praise from and attention of the entire Social Studies department with my (what I thought were) Pulitzer-level masterpieces, it felt not very unlike a juiced NFL player would after winning a Super Bowl ring—undeserved. I ended up switching to Engineering as a way to prove to myself that my willpower alone could trump any obstacle; drugs were superfluous and better left to my inferiors (which is to say, as I was wont to think, 99.8% of the world’s population).
I vowed to never ingest a single illicit (or illicitly-acquired) substance again, of course. Two years went by after taking the “Limitless” pill, and my GPA cratered. Engineering meant academics were no longer a walk-in-the-park like high school was. The fact was—my ADHD never even had an opportunity to surface because of how easy my high school curriculum was structured. I was getting straight C’s semester after semester and I was desperate to reclaim my throne of academic super-stardom I felt my pedigree and upbringing warranted.
I went to a local psychiatrist, who produced a prescription pad in literally 4 minutes. My miracle pills were back, and my GPA shot back up, even managing to snag a few A+’s! I felt like I was Einstein reincarnate! In fact, the high these amphetamines conferred onto me resulted in me doing so well in university recruiting, that when corporations came around, I beat tens of thousands of ferociously-competitive applicants in securing an SA offer at a BB. I would take 100mg of Adderall XR in the morning and clock an average of 20 hours of pure work that day. My MDs and VPs loved me, and the other SAs were continually frustrated, floored, and generally envious of my miraculous ability to out-muscle them intellectually and physically day-in and day-out. I was notorious for staying up two or three nights in a row without a wink of sleep, and even the security guards that checked my ID would be in a catatonic awe of my regular habit of leaving the office at 5am and returning at 5:30am, having only went to my apartment to change out of my suits (which were drenched with sweat because of the drugs). Of course, on Saturdays and Sundays, I slept 19 straight hours. Towards the end of the internship, I began showing up late, because on the third straight day of absolutely no-sleep, my body would shut down at 6am while I would be changing to return to the office, and I would wake up at noon praying like a sinner that some catastrophe would materialize in-transit to distract Management from my unfathomable tardiness. Because of my incredibly sterling reputation (built upon a foundation of Adderall) that I killed myself over the past few months to erect, my superiors forgave me and I felt like what I assume Heroin feels like.
Unfortunately, this happened two or three more times, and I went from the top intern globally (that is, out of the entire company, because even the CEO and other Executives knew about my reputation, apparently) to the office scourge. I was no longer asked to spearhead projects and trust between me and everyone evaporated. Because we work with the world’s most important people, my superiors thought that being just smart but also punctual was far more attractive and much preferred over the sheer intellectual horsepower I blessed the investment bank with. I was not offered to return following graduation. It was the most humiliating experience of my life. I wish I never took Adderall my freshmen year. That way, I would’ve never been able to secure this investment banking internship only to experience the harrowing, flesh-singing sting of denial to this golden ticket to fame and fortune.
Now, I am trying to get my recently-prescribed regiment of modafinil to prevent any further professional disasters, but I found this medication largely superfluous as I moved back in with my parents following graduation and am gradually turning into Jabba the Hut. My dreams of gracing the cover of Forbes evaporated when I couldn’t even get another job with an even worse investment bank (or anywhere!), so now my only goal is to serendipitously stumble-upon a neglected vial of morphine to accidentally euthanize myself.
Stay away from highly-addictive stimulants like Adderall. Nuvigil is much safer.
Source: anecdotal I always knew I was a genius, and my nosebleed test scores, flawless transcript, and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of scholarships in high school seemed to support this delusion.
When I went to University (one of the world's most prestigious), I was introduced to Adderall IR and felt immortal. After commanding the praise from and attention of the entire Social Studies department with my (what I thought were) Pulitzer-level masterpieces, it felt not very unlike a juiced NFL player would after winning a Super Bowl ring—undeserved. I ended up switching to Engineering as a way to prove to myself that my willpower alone could trump any obstacle; drugs were superfluous and better left to my inferiors (which is to say, as I was wont to think, 99.8% of the world’s population).
I vowed to never ingest a single illicit (or illicitly-acquired) substance again, of course. Two years went by after taking the “Limitless” pill, and my GPA cratered. Engineering meant academics were no longer a walk-in-the-park like high school was. The fact was—my ADHD never even had an opportunity to surface because of how easy my high school curriculum was structured. I was getting straight C’s semester after semester and I was desperate to reclaim my throne of academic super-stardom I felt my pedigree and upbringing warranted.
I went to a local psychiatrist, who produced a prescription pad in literally 4 minutes. My miracle pills were back, and my GPA shot back up, even managing to snag a few A+’s! I felt like I was Einstein reincarnate! In fact, the high these amphetamines conferred onto me resulted in me doing so well in university recruiting, that when corporations came around, I beat tens of thousands of ferociously-competitive applicants in securing an SA offer at a BB. I would take 100mg of Adderall XR in the morning and clock an average of 20 hours of pure work that day. My MDs and VPs loved me, and the other SAs were continually frustrated, floored, and generally envious of my miraculous ability to out-muscle them intellectually and physically day-in and day-out. I was notorious for staying up two or three nights in a row without a wink of sleep, and even the security guards that checked my ID would be in a catatonic awe of my regular habit of leaving the office at 5am and returning at 5:30am, having only went to my apartment to change out of my suits (which were drenched with sweat because of the drugs). Of course, on Saturdays and Sundays, I slept 19 straight hours. Towards the end of the internship, I began showing up late, because on the third straight day of absolutely no-sleep, my body would shut down at 6am while I would be changing to return to the office, and I would wake up at noon praying like a sinner that some catastrophe would materialize in-transit to distract Management from my unfathomable tardiness. Because of my incredibly sterling reputation (built upon a foundation of Adderall) that I killed myself over the past few months to erect, my superiors forgave me and I felt like what I assume Heroin feels like.
Unfortunately, this happened two or three more times, and I went from the top intern globally (that is, out of the entire company, because even the CEO and other Executives knew about my reputation, apparently) to the office scourge. I was no longer asked to spearhead projects and trust between me and everyone evaporated. Because we work with the world’s most important people, my superiors thought that being just smart but also punctual was far more attractive and much preferred over the sheer intellectual horsepower I blessed the investment bank with. I was not offered to return following graduation. It was the most humiliating experience of my life. I wish I never took Adderall my freshmen year. That way, I would’ve never been able to secure this investment banking internship only to experience the harrowing, flesh-singing sting of denial to this golden ticket to fame and fortune.
Now, I am trying to get my recently-prescribed regiment of modafinil to prevent any further professional disasters, but I found this medication largely superfluous as I moved back in with my parents following graduation and am gradually turning into Jabba the Hut. My dreams of gracing the cover of Forbes evaporated when I couldn’t even get another job with an even worse investment bank (or anywhere!), so now my only goal is to serendipitously stumble-upon a neglected vial of morphine to accidentally euthanize myself.
Cold water..it'll do you wonders. Kept a two lt bottle on my desk. Would go through it 3 times in a day.
When I was into my heavy lifting, I used NO Exp and jack3d before it became illegal. Something just didn't feel right not least because the tingly and itchy sensation on my face made me look like I was yearning for a crack fix.
Other than that, cod liver oil, plenty of fruit and two cups of tea throughout the day.
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