Wall Street Oasis logo


  • Recent
    • All Recent Content
    • Top WSO Bloggers
    • WSO Chat Room
    • Hot Topics - Week
    • Hot Topics - Month
    • Hot Topics - Year
    • Hot Topics - All Time
    • Top Comments - All Time
  • FAQs
    • Best Interviews
    • Common Questions
    • Industry Specific
    • WSO 101
    • Education
    • Recruiting
    • Life in Finance
    • WSO Company Database
    • WSO Finance Dictionary
  • Forums
    • Post Forum Topic
    • Best Interviews
    • Best Comments
    • WSO Chat Room
    • Job Search Advice
    • Investment Banking
    • Private Equity
    • Venture Capital
    • Trading
    • Consulting
    • Hedge Funds
    • Corporate Finance
    • Real Estate Finance
    • Equity Research
    • Asset Management
    • WSO Success Stories
    • Other Careers
    • Business School
    • Resume Forum
    • Wall St. Fashion
    • New User Intros
    • Monkey Around
    • WSO Products
    • Site Suggestions
  • Groups
    • Browse Groups
    • Create Group
    • My Groups
    • Non Target Networking
    • Energy Trading
    • State your salary
    • Read the Footnotes
    • Proprietary Traders
    • WSO Investment Forum
    • CFA
    • The Restructuring Group
    • Economics
    • RE Finance/Investments
  • About
    • About WSO
    • Press
    • Contact Us
    • RSS Sitemap
    • Advertise on WSO
    • WSO Discounts
    • WSO Store
  • Login
  • Sign Up!
  • Hot Topics
  • My Profile
  • Company Research
  • Modeling
  • Resume Review
  • Events
  • Interview Guides
  • Job Board
  • Intern Positions

6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...and More.

Enter your e-mail below to get our new Free Modeling Tutorials ($200+ Value).

Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Edmundo Braverman's blog
< previous | next >

Professional Athlete or Investment Banker?
 

  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »
Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,704
 
Points)
 on 8/25/12 at 11:49am
drewbreesmadden11.jpg

Andy note: "Blast from the past - Best of Eddie" - This one is originally from Aug. 2010. If there's an old post from Eddie you'd like to see up again shoot me a message.

Given that today is Friday, the NFL pre-season is underway, and I had a little bit to drink last night, I thought I'd pose an existential question today. If you had a choice, would you rather be a professional athlete or an investment banker? I know it sounds a little off-the-wall, but indulge me. I was inspired by the latest article by Matt Taibbi (yes, that Matt Taibbi. Settle down; he leaves Goldman alone in this one.)

Plenty of bankers, and even more traders, come from the ranks of college athletes. And it takes a hell of a lot to compete at the collegiate level. So I know there's a wide cross-section of Wall Street who has at least thought about what it would be like to be a professional athlete. If we're being honest, we've all thought about it a few times. And you don't have to be a train wreck like Lenny Dykstra.

Let's talk numbers. While it's hard to quantify what the average banker makes over a career due to all the variables, it's a little easier when it comes to professional athletes. For example, the median 2009 salary in the NFL was $770,000 and the average length of an NFL career is four years. Baseball and basketball skew higher in both categories, so we'll use the NFL for the purposes of an example.

So the obvious question is, would you forgo a career on Wall Street for the fame and fortune of a professional sports career, even if it were only for four years and roughly $3 million? And over at age 26? Before you answer, maybe I can give you a little context.

I was 24 when I blew out of my first marriage. To say that I was ready to party would have been the understatement of the century. I was a banker making good money, so my options were wide open when it came to living arrangements. Instead of getting a nice place by myself, I fell into renting a room in a big house with four other guys.

Three of the four were former professional athletes. Tom had been a linebacker with the Eagles in the mid-80's. Jimmy was the youngest guy ever drafted by the Minnesota Northstars (now the Dallas Stars). Kevin was a AAA catcher who got called up to the St. Louis Cardinals as a replacement player during the 1994 MLB strike. And then there was me and the Colonel. We called him that not because of his military service (he was sorely unfit for it) but because his given name was Steve Austin. He also happened to work for the local beer distributor. Yeah, you read that right.

I found what I was looking for, and then some. When Taibbi says that professional athletes get away with murder (ahem, Ray Lewis), he's not kidding. Some of the shit that went on in that house would blow your mind.

Tomboy found his niche almost a decade after an NFL career that could charitably be described as middling. He discovered an uncanny knack for procuring Russian army surplus gear and medical-grade marijuana (presumably from different sources). He parlayed the Russian junk into a respectable fortune. Overall, he made pretty good investments and did well for himself from that point on.

Jimmy was whipsmart and you never had to worry about where he was coming from. But you couldn't say the same for his hockey buddies. My years as a boxer and Marine taught me how to take a punch, and it came in handy with that crew. We lived in an IHL town, and we ran with an IHL crowd (the IHL was known in the old days as the "Iron League" and was immortalized by the Hanson Brothers in the movie Slap Shot). Anytime the Houston Aeros came to town you were guaranteed to get punched in the face and have the time of your life. Go figure.

Before I get too far out of bounds, let me just mention the women. The parade of women that came through that house (and in and out of the hot tub) were stellar. Not to mention they were all high-functioning sociopaths. For some reason, professional athletes attract that caliber of woman. One night, Jimmy's regular thing came over with one of her girlfriends when I was the only one home.

They wanted to hang out in the hot tub, so I told them to go for it. They invited me to join them, and I said what the hell. Then they started making regular trips to the bathroom to "powder their noses". Jimmy's girl was pining over him like he could lick his eyebrows, and the other one was telling her what a bag of shit he was for not marrying her. Shit spiraled out of control until they were screaming at each other and ready to go to blows. I convinced them that we should go to a bar and chill out. You can probably guess how that night ended. If I wasn't a trader, I'd be a bail bondsman.

There's not a lot I'll say about Kevin other than that he was one of the most genuinely sweet guys I ever knew, and he had movie star good looks. He might have only pulled down $1,500 a month playing for the Amarillo Armadillos, but he had women falling at his feet the whole time. And you can't put a price tag on that.

My point in this whole trip down memory lane (and believe me, I could go on for hours) is that professional athletes have it pretty good. Even after they've outlived their usefulness from an entertainment standpoint. Today's athletes are paid so much more than the guys that I knew, and even the guys I knew were having the time of their life years after their careers ended. It makes me think that might be the way to go, if you had a choice.

What it all boils down to is this: would you take $3 million and whatever potential injuries you collected over 4 years to have that money at age 26? How big a factor would the fame be for you? Do you expect to earn more than $3 million over the course of your career as an investment banker? And would you be willing to trade 20 years of your life for it? How about 40?

I just think it's an interesting topic of conversation on the eve of another professional football season. Professional athletes seem to have it all: big money, fame, women, a get-out-of-jail-free card. Plus they get to play a game they love for a living. Can you say the same thing about Excel?

  • professional athlete
  • shit
  • wall street
  • nfl
  • matt taibbi
  • career
  • investment
  • investment bankers
  • bankers
    • Credits
  •  
  •  

Comments

awp's picture

dude get some real topics.

awp
      O
 
(Orangutan, 291
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 6:32am

dude get some real topics.

    • Credits
  • -2
  •  
In reply to awp
Edmundo Braverman's picture

awp wrote: dude get some real

Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,704
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 6:39am
awp:

dude get some real topics.

Chess club, I presume?

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
jmdude's picture

braverman, your posts are

jmdude
      ST
 
(Orangutan, 301
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 6:42am

braverman, your posts are epic. always entertaining

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
sick_willy's picture

This question has a lot of

sick_willy
      PE
 
(Senior Orangutan, 434
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 7:33am

This question has a lot of variables that can skew the answer. The biggest one for me is: am I still coming from the same school or am I graduating from ASU with below average grades and SAT?

If that's the case, I'd rather stay in finance (especially since I'll only be a pro for a couple of years). If I'm coming from the same school then hell yes, I'd rather be a professional athlete, no question.

---------------------------
BossMode

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Audio's picture

Every kid's dream was at one

Audio
      IB
 
(Baboon, 100
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 8:19am

Every kid's dream was at one point to become a professional athlete - I know I dreamed of it. I would take pro athlete over IB, especially in the US, with MBA schools' and banks' obsession with athletes. Switching to IB is not that hard after an MBA.

This is an ideal scenario though, where everything goes right: you don't go to jail for carrying a gun or raping a fan, your family is sane and gives you good advice, you don't impregnate hookers, you actually find out that there is a thing called "banking" during your career and that the best way to get into it is through an MBA (information is everything), you get to keep the same IQ, etc.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
rocknrolla's picture

Is this seriously even a

rocknrolla
      IB
 
(Monkey, 43
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 8:43am

Is this seriously even a question? Almost everyone would go pro athlete, plus are we even including say pro golfers? Their careers are extremely long and being the best seems to yield a net worth of a billion and... It completely depends on the sport and position you play for how long your career/earnings are.

Those who wouldn't go pro athlete are either in huge denial or d-bags.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
BigBucks's picture

My boy who I played football

BigBucks
      IB
 
(Gorilla, 509
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 8:55am

My boy who I played football with in HS, Russell Okung just got his nice rookie check. Then i got my other boy who is currently an SA for BAML in NY.... I think ill take Rusell's path any day, too bad getting into professional athlete is a crap shoot in alot of ways. That 3 mil assumption is also a bit flawed, first round draft picks are DEFINITELY going to get more than that, just in signing bonus. In the amount of time it takes to make MD at a BB , you could be filthy and retired as an athlete doing whatever the fk you want.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Chech4's picture

Those who think this isnt

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:10am

Those who think this isnt even a decision (would choose pro athelete) never played a college sport, to give you a really small dose of what a professional career might be like. Not saying I wouldn't choose being a professional athelete, but it is stil a JOB, and its still a grind. Alsoof course I would want to be a professional athlete if I could be a first round draft pick superstar (Russell Okung) and had a great shot at some longevity and big money in my sport. However the lions share of athletes are not superstars, and dont make the extrvagant salary. I play baseball in college and playing sixty games a season is a fucking GRIND. The thought of playing 162 seems crazy to me. Its not as easy of a lifestyle as most would think for those that dont have big names in their sport.

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Edmundo Braverman
Chech4's picture

Edmundo Braverman wrote: awp

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:18am
Edmundo Braverman:
awp:

dude get some real topics.

Chess club, I presume?

How about you shut the hell up awp. It Is not normal for a MALE to not want to talk about things such as these.

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 1
  •  
jocksnjills's picture

I would choose finance in a

jocksnjills
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:24am

I would choose finance in a heartbeat!! I never went pro but playing in college was a JOB like the guy above said. And while it does seem like athletes pull a lot of ass, if your working in a field that is high paying and in a big city you should have no problem getting adequate booty. With that being said I know my orthopedic surgeon on a first name basis and ironically I think I just tore my PCL last weekend playing football. And I'm not even playing collegiate sports anymore. Playing sports is the definitely the "life" but I'm in my early twenties and I'm already tired of the injuries. Stick my ass in a office please.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Chech4's picture

Yea and i've been lucky

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:32am

Yea and i've been lucky enough to never have had a serious injury to contend with, if that happened and had to rehab for months blah blah blah, forget it

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
phantombanker's picture

Athlete, hands down. People

phantombanker
     
 
(Gorilla, 591
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:40am

Athlete, hands down. People on this site seem to forget that banking is just a job, and a shitty one for that matter.

See my other WSO blog posts

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Absolutely. I'd easily take

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 4:53pm

Absolutely. I'd easily take Valentino Rossi's or Casey Stoner's life over banking or even trading. Also, those guys have fewer restrictions on what stocks they can invest in and how they can play with their own money.

This is really a no-brainer. Unfortunately, there are fewer entrance opps for nerdy engineers who have an excellent sense of balance but are otherwise kinda uncoordinated in professional sports than there are in banking. Maybe my kids will get to compete in the MotoGP one day, but if farming was good enough for Grandpa and accounting was good enough for my Dad, I can be content with being a quant.

Work hard, play hard.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to phantombanker
Chech4's picture

phantombanker wrote: Athlete,

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:42am
phantombanker:

Athlete, hands down. People on this site seem to forget that banking is just a job, and a shitty one for that matter.

I agree the only point I was trying to make it that there is a basis for discussion here

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Dr Barnaby Fulton's picture

Becoming a professional

Dr Barnaby Fulton
      AM
 
(Orangutan, 329
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 9:45am

Becoming a professional athlete is much more difficult than breaking into finance. Having a long successful career as a professional athlete is way more difficult than becoming, say, an MD at a BB. That being said, I'd much rather be a pro athlete. If I could choose any two sports, it would have to be baseball or golf. Golfers can have long careers and travel the world playing courses that people wait months, maybe years and pay huge $$ to play on. Baseball players, it seems to me, have the least demanding physical requirements. Baseball players pull more tail than football or basketball players.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who plays college sports. I played football freshman year and retired after the season was over. That shit was miserable and I'm enjoying the retirement. They wanted me to put on 20 lbs during the off season, all the practices, weights, meetings, travel, etc,.

At the college level, even in D1, few girls give two shits if you play football or basketball.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Dr Barnaby Fulton
Virginia Tech 4ever's picture

Dr Barnaby Fulton wrote: At

Virginia Tech 4ever
      EN
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,321
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:06am
You must be signed in to read advice below.
Sign In with FacebookSign In with Google
Connecting helps us build a vibrant community. We'll never share your info without your permission.

Sign Up with email

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
1.21 gigawatts's picture

NBA

1.21 gigawatts
     
 
(Baboon, 102
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:08am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
jocksnjills's picture

The only sport I would do

jocksnjills
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:12am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
ke18sb's picture

This can't even be a choice.

ke18sb
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,111
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:15am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
ncstater's picture

Virginia Tech 4ever

ncstater
      IB
 
(Monkey, 46
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:18am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to dumbyoungbum
Chech4's picture

dumbyoungbum wrote: The only

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:24am

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Marcus_Halberstram's picture

At first blush I'd say

Marcus_Halberstram
      PE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,446
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:21am

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Chech4
Marcus_Halberstram's picture

Chech4 wrote: dumbyoungbum

Marcus_Halberstram
      PE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,446
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:31am

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Chech4's picture

you nailed it Marcus

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:27am

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
jocksnjills's picture

Yea I know I was talking

jocksnjills
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:27am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
jocksnjills's picture

If you look at salaries it's

jocksnjills
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:46am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Chech4
awp's picture

Chech4 wrote: Edmundo

awp
      O
 
(Orangutan, 291
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:50am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
ThaVanBurenBoyz's picture

Highest paid sports (Boxing

ThaVanBurenBoyz
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,519
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 10:55am
    • Credits
  • 1
  •  
Chech4's picture

yes the highest salries are

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:01am

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to awp
Chech4's picture

awp wrote: Chech4

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:06am

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
TheDudeness's picture

In a heartbeat. Football

TheDudeness
      O
 
(Senior Monkey, 88
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:08am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to captainmorgan
Virginia Tech 4ever's picture

captainmorgan wrote: Playing

Virginia Tech 4ever
      EN
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,321
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:29am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Virginia Tech 4ever's picture

I guess here's what I'm

Virginia Tech 4ever
      EN
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,321
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:33am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Well, yes, but they're all

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:33am

Work hard, play hard.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
econ's picture

Definitely pro athlete. You

econ
      O
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,419
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:42am

For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
spartahill's picture

The 78 percent number (i.e.,

spartahill
      IB
 
(Baboon, 146
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:49am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
jocksnjills's picture

Virginia Tech 4ever wrote: I

jocksnjills
      IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 191
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 11:57am
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
LIBOR's picture

I was never good at sports. I

LIBOR
      EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:03pm

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Kools's picture

Pro Athlete --> MBA -->

Kools
      O
 
(Senior Baboon, 223
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:14pm
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
cros09's picture

I am a former professional

cros09
     
 
(Senior Chimp, 27
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:17pm
    • Credits
  • 1
  •  
Ratatouille's picture

.

Ratatouille
      IB
 
(Orangutan, 277
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:19pm
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Marcus_Halberstram's picture

My question to you is this...

Marcus_Halberstram
      PE
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,446
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:19pm

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume

    • Credits
  • 1
  •  
In reply to LIBOR
IlliniProgrammer's picture

LIBOR wrote: I once heard a

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:20pm

Work hard, play hard.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Marcus_Halberstram
adapt or die's picture

Marcus_Halberstram wrote: My

adapt or die
     
 
 
(King Kong, 1,265
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:31pm
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to IlliniProgrammer
LIBOR's picture

IlliniProgrammer

LIBOR
      EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 12:38pm

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
jos.a.bankhard's picture

I'm confident that awp is

jos.a.bankhard
      CO
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 230
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 1:30pm
    • Credits
  • 1
  •  
NGL's picture

The answer to this question

NGL
      O
 
(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 1:07pm
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
IlliniProgrammer's picture

Trading will take years off

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,258
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 1:48pm

Work hard, play hard.

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
In reply to Marcus_Halberstram
NGL's picture

Marcus_Halberstram wrote: My

NGL
      O
 
(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 3:45pm
    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
Chech4's picture

haah no hes not for real, its

Chech4
      O
 
(Baboon, 132
 
Points)
 on 8/13/10 at 3:48pm

Gang, Gang, Gang

    • Credits
  • 0
  •  
  • 1
  • 2
  • next ›
  • last »

6 Free Financial Modeling Lessons...Straight to Your Inbox.

Confirm your name and e-mail below to get our best tips

Monkey Stats
Account information
We respect your Name and E-mail privacy. By joining you accept our terms of service.
Skip this step
Terms and Conditions of Use
These are the "Terms and Conditions" under which you may use WallStreetOasis.com. Please read this page carefully including the Privacy Policy below. If you do not accept the Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy stated here, do not use this web site or any services offered by this web site. By using this web site, you are indicating your acceptance to be bound by the terms of these Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. IB Oasis Corp. (the "Company") may revise these Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy at any time by updating this posting. You should visit this page periodically to review the Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy, because they are binding on you. The terms "You" and "User" as used herein refer to all individuals and/or entities accessing this web site for any reason.

Neither WallStreetOasis.com, IB Oasis Corp. nor employees of IB Oasis Corp. are investment advisors. The purpose of this website is NOT to give any advice on your personal investment strategy. If you base your investment decisions on content of this website, you may lose part or all of your money.

You should not violate any other law or regulation, including, without limitation, the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the national or other securities exchanges, especially including the rule against making false or misleading statements to manipulate the price of a security or the rule requiring you to disclose any compensation you may receive for describing a security.

You should not access WallStreetOasis.com by any means other than through the interfaces we provide for use in accessing our services or use any automated means, including, without limitation, agents, robots, scripts, or spiders, to access, monitor, copy, or harvest data from any part of our sites, except those automated means that we have approved in advance and in writing.

The Company, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to remove any postings, or deny access by any individuals, for any reason or no reason.

If you see something that you feel is a violation of the these Terms and Conditions, please notify us by emailing wallstreetoasis at wallstreetoasis.com.

We reserve the right to change the Terms and Conditions at any time. Changes will be posted on the applicable web page.

Use of Material.

The Company authorizes you to view and download a single copy of the material on www.WallStreetOasis.com (the "Web Site") solely for your personal, noncommercial use. By using the Web Site you are giving the Company the sole right to use any and all content you generate or publish on the site for commercial, non-commercial or promotional purposes. This includes any and all forum posts, comments, blog posts or any other material you generate on the Web Site.

The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

  • New
  • Active
  • Rank
  • Comments
  • Hi guys, Not sure if this is a silly/stupid questions, but it has been constantly on my mind. I am currently interning at an IB (not super prestigious but not boutique either). It has been a great experience as they are really open to teaching. With this said, what types of mistakes are...
    Internship experience
  • First post on WSO: Looking to move into RE full time. Some criteria: real estate focus with domestic/international travel involved. Do any positions matching these criteria exist? From what I've read, it sounds like IB RE is office based, as are most other positions. I don't mind long...
    Real Estate and Travel
  • I searched the site and realize that most posts about this are very old. I'm looking for current opinions. I've read that people who get into IB through SEO generally get less respect from their peers. My questions are: 1. How do people even know if you got in through SEO or not? 2. Why...
    Question about SEO
  • Thoughts on this? Heister brings up a good question: <em>"Who else is going to the job? Which senior Goldman partner is planning on retiring and needs to shield millions in stock options from taxes?"</em> via Bloomberg: <strong>Obama Says Bernanke Has Been at Fed...
    Bye Bye Bernanke? Who Would Be Next?
  • So I've been thinking about looking into getting a part time internship at an AM firm at my college town during the fall semester to buff my resume up a little more for recruiting. My schedule isn't too tough, and I'd probably be able to do around 20-30 hours a week if I include...
    Part Time AM Internship
  • For those of you analysts that wear glasses or contacts... which of the two would you recommend? Forget about the way glasses look.... for the purposes of comfort and practicality, are one them easier on the eyes at 2am after staring at a screen for 10 hours? I'm afraid contacts might dry...
    Glasses or Contacts?
  • Did a pretty extensive search but there wasn't too much information out there. Can anyone provide some color on the pay/lifestyle/exit opps at internal strategy/M&A desks at BBs? It seems like at some banks, this desk is more of a back office role with very good hours but minimal...
    Internal strategy and M&A at a BB
  • Proposed Answer: The pay is atrocious, there is virtually no promotion potential, and the work is not challenging enough. Is this a good answer? If I was to give one answer, which one is...
    "What is the worst part of your job" interview question
  • So all new users to WSO get 6 free financial modeling lessons, 5 of my best tips for networking and my best tips for interviewing over the first month of being a user. Tonght I got a response from one of my networking tips e-mails from a slightly older gentleman that is a "financial...
    Why is this Quant so Angry and So Out of Touch?
  • Assume no CD experience pre-MBA. My thoughts are that working in CD requires making long-term investments (albeit strategic/operational, as opposed to financial), so it may force one to think like a long-term owner, a la value-oriented investing. If possible, how long should it take in CD...
    Post-MBA Corporate Development --> Fundamental/Value HF ... good path to try?
  • Does anyone have PE recruiting resources they'd be willing to share/ trade? I'm looking for modeling tests (with solutions) and have a few tests from top tier funds to trade in exchange. Any other recruiting resources would be appreciated as well. Please PM me....
    PE recruiting resources
  • Hi all - As i have been looking through this site, i have found their seems to be a lack on anything Australian. While that is understandable seeming as the industry is US focused, i thought i'd take the opportunity to try and develop a useful collection of tid-bits and facts by sharing...
    Answering Australian I-Banking Questions!
  • As summer rolls around, many folks leave the office a little earlier on Thursday or Friday nights to make it out for a cocktail event or weekend away from town. There will be a solid amount of extra-industry networking going on, to say the least. And by that I mean sloppy cocktail parties. But...
    Summer Cocktail Events - 5 Tips to Keep the Conversation Flowing
  • ...
    -
more

Upcoming Events

  • Financial & Valuation Modeling Boot Camp (Los Angeles)
    Jun 20 2013 - 8:00am - Jun 22 2013 - 5:00pm
  • London WSO Drinks
    Jun 20 2013 - 2:30pm - 4:30pm
  • Financial and Valuation Modeling Boot Camp (San Francisco)
    Jun 27 2013 - 9:00am - Jun 28 2013 - 5:30pm
  • Crowdfunding Conference, June 27, The Yale Club New York
    Jun 27 2013 - 11:30am - 7:30pm
  • WSO Conference 2013 - New York City
    Jun 29 2013 - 10:00am
more

Highest Ranked Content

  • Week
  • Month
  • Year
  • All Time
  • Comments
<em>Mod note: make sure to see the great comment below by CompBanker</em> I come from a small town where nobody had ever heard of consulting or IB. I was fortunate enough to attend a top target college (a good Ivy) and land a gig in IB at a BB/EB. I'm starting full time this...
Finance Culture - Personalities
<strong>Background</strong> I randomly discovered WSO nearly seven years ago just weeks after I secured a FT MM IB position. The website was extremely nascent at the time with only a few thousand registered users. The majority of the users were college students with only a handful...
How WSO has enhanced my IB/PE career
After over one year in the making, the <strong><a href="http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/2013-wso-compensation-report-full">2013 WSO Compensation Report</a></strong> is here! Access to the FULL 108 page 2013 WSO Compensation Report is <strong>100%...
2013 WSO Compensation Report has Arrived
Where do i even start..I learned so much from this forum. The brutally honest opinions, sincere willingness to help, the technical information and random tips on everything has been absolutely crucial for me landing this offer. Coming from a non-target I didnt get that 3rd year SA position at...
Thank you WSO! Got my FT Offer! ADVICE NEEDED
When I first started as a PE analyst, I constantly struggled with judging the amount of time I should spend on reviewing sourced deals. How much time is enough to really get a handle on the company’s revenue streams? How granular do I need my analysis to be on industry threats? With this...
Misguided Efforts: A Cautionary Tale
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
Many of the questions that have come in surround recruiting for front office Wall Street careers from a non-target so we’ll start with some ideas for recruiting, move on to interviewing, preparing for the job and finally long-term career management advice. Before we begin, it has been...
Stand Out as a Non-Target: Recruiting (Part 1 of 4)
Any Asset Management people here who could give me some insights on it, such as the nature of the work, the pay, the hours, the potential for career advancement, ect? I was looking into IB before but I've decided that I would rather pursue a career that's more intellectually...
Asset Management a better choice than Investment Banking?
<img src="//img.pandawhale.com/48721-Sexually-Oblivious-Female-Meme-Ze2w.png" alt="Sexually Oblivious Female Meme - Favorite Position? I would like to be a CEO.">
If you could be the richest person in the world with your dream job only as a public virgin forever would you do it?
<em>Mod Note: Blast from the Past - "Best of Eddie" - This one is from June 2011.</em> <em><strong><u>Freeriding</u> :</strong> The illegal activity of buying a stock and selling it before paying for the purchase.</em> - <a...
Come On and Take a Free Ride
more

Recent Jobs

  • Real Estate Investment Banking Analyst
  • Funded Internet Startup Seeks Corporate Clients Managers
  • Financial Research Associate for Funded Growth-Stage Internet Startup
  • Business Development Associate
  • Finance/Business Internship in Bejing w/ a Wall Street Company
more



Sell Tickets Online through Eventbrite

Poll

Why would you NOT go to the 2013 WSO Conference? :
View the current poll results.

Silver Banana Rankings

  • Silver Banana Leaders
  • Soiled Monkeys
UserSilver Bananas
Edmundo Braverman1161
TNA1120
CompBanker935
happypantsmcgee744
IlliniProgrammer726
UFOinsider641
TheKing625
BlackHat594
rufiolove439
Nouveau Richie425
more

Top WSO Members

  • Total Bananas
  • Active Monkeys
UserBanana Points
Edmundo Braverman14704
TNA13710
WallStreetOasis.com12192
UFOinsider10462
happypantsmcgee9627
IlliniProgrammer9258
CompBanker8737
AndyLouis6117
Siberian Husky5862
monty095426
more

New Groups

  • Houston Targets
  • Belgium going Wall Street
  • Liberal Arts Colleges Graduates
  • McCombs Monkeys (University of Texas at Austin)
  • WSO Pittsburgh
  • Denver Professionals
  • Minneapolis Bankers
  • Non-Target Networking in NYC
  • Prep School Bankers
  • Commercial Real Estate
more

© 2006-2012 WallStreetOasis.com | All Rights ReservedAdvertise | About Us | Contact Us | FAQs | Site Map | Privacy Policy

As Seen In

Sister Site

Syndicate content