How Much Do You Make - Endowment, Foundation, FoF, Pension Edition
There's been a lot of chatter recently on endowments, foundations, etc. However, the space is not very transparent in terms of pay, WLB, etc. Hopefully this thread can let us know how over / under paid we are. I'll start.
Salary: $125k
Bonus: $85k
Type: Endowment
Description: Lower Ivy League
Time at Firm: 1.5 years
Total Work Experience: 3.5 years
Average Hours Worked: 65
Salary:
Bonus:
Type:
Description:
Time at Firm:
Total Work Experience:
Average Hours Worked:
Following
So you worked for 2 years at an IB before the current gig?
Yessir
do you mind dm'ing me? would love to pick your brain as I am currently looking at a generalist role at an endowment (HMC)
delete
Hey man,
Cheers for starting this discussion - I'm not directly within the E&F, pension or FoF world but am working as investment consultant so can speak to that if there's interest.
Just wondering on your side how you got into your current role and what you do day to day?
Hey sent you a DM
Not sure I received it unless you send me a DM last night?
Hey, do you still work at a Foundation? I work in a multi-family office and would love to understand more about a career at a Foundation. Do you mind DMing me? Thanks!
Hi!! I would love to ask a few questions about your role (just received a very similar offer) - would you be able to DM me?
I work in a FoF at an investment advisor, if you DM I'd love to chat
following
Could you DM me? I’d love to pick your brain a bit if possible
Sure, dm’d you
Do you have other benefits like meal stipend/uber etc
When you say lower ivy league, do you mean you graduate from one or are currently working at one?
Hey, I work alongside many E&Fs as LPs in the Private Credit space. I work at a large F100 insurer and my role is a blend of primary and secondary fund investing. But I have opportunities to rotate into other roles. May I PM you for some advice on lateraling to E&Fs?
What's your future career plan?
Less questions and more datapoints people..
No longer in this role but will try and provide useful data points:
Salary: 110k
Bonus: 20k
Type: FoF (tier 2 city doing fund and coinvestment work)
Time at firm: 2 years
Total work experience: 2 years (was first job out of school)
Average hours worked: 60-65
.
Where are you now and was 110k your base right out of undergrad? That's really high.
Do you think it’s easy to hop from FoF role to a direct investment role like VC/GE/PE?
Salary: 72k
Bonus: ~10k
Type: FoF/Investment consultant
Time at firm: 2 years
Total work experience: 1.5 years (was first job out of school)
Average hours worked: 55
What do you do now?
Got an MBA and went nto research. Investment consultants get paid horribly but at least place well for MBAs
Salary: $125k
Bonus: $75k
Type: Pension
Description: Large pension with global footprint
Time at firm: 1 year
Total experience: 2.5 years
Average hours worked: 55 hours
Appreciate the datapoint. Were you in IB before and do you guys mostly do fund investments?
I wasn't in IB before (AM at a BB) but my whole team is from banking or PE shops. Hard to speak to other industry groups as much but mostly managers with some direct investments.
This seems quite high for Associate 1 at a large pension. Were you part of a private investments/direct co-investment team?
This makes more sense, though why are the hours so high? 55hrs isn't crazy but I work 50hrs at a top AM (equities)...would think that manager allocation at a pension fund would be fewer hours as the rigor / depth of the research is not going to be as high (I don't say that as an insult, merely a statement of fact...I have considered the route you're taking and might do it one day)
I’ll speak for my firm. Even if doing manager selection, when your AUM gets high, we haven’t let our portfolio get more concentrated. Our investment team is relatively lean and so there’s a large volume of new manager meetings and monitoring old
Guessing this is a Canadian pension fund? Which asset class are you in if you don't mind?
Would you mind DMing me? Would appreciate connecting and learning more about your role
Adding data point from job offer:
Salary: 135k
Bonus: unknown, but small (10-20k?)
Type: Endowment, Fund of Funds
Total work experience: 3 years
Average hours worked: 40
Was your 3 years in IB?
No, research at an AM.
I’ll add from two offers I received as well:
Offer 1
Salary: 135k
Bonus: 40k
Type: Hedge FoF
Total work experience: 3 years
Offer 2
Salary: 95k
Bonus: 100k
Type: PE FoF
Total work experience: 3 years
How is the WLB so bad where you are? 65 hours a week is insane for a pension fund / FoF / endowment.
I work ~50hrs a week at a top AM (equities) and make similar comp to you with similar years of experience. Really puzzled by the above, I'd think the hours would be close to 40-50
I think there’s a pretty big spectrum in the endowment space. On one end there are some very tiny endowments with 3 people and on the other some of the massive endowments that are just constantly screening and have money to put to work. Let me qualify the hours too: it is not at all like when I was at my IB (receiving requests at all hours of the night, tight turnarounds, etc). It’s much more laid back. I’m I’m spending an extra hour or two a day, it’s more for me to improve. The only exception is sometime the day is just filled with new manager calls to the point that the only time you have to do any work is after hours
What sort of modeling do you do for manager selection and what's the most technical aspect of this job?
Salary: $80-90k (tier 1 city)
Bonus: $30k
Type: O-CIO/ FoF
Time at Firm: 3.5 years (started with associate title but basically analyst)
Total Work: 3.5 full time, 2 full years interning at various shops
Avg Hours: 60
Salary started lower as it was first job out of college, do mostly manager research for liquid and illiquid funds, some co-invest.
Just curious how big is your firm’s AUM (roughly)?
$5-8bn In AUA. It's grown a lot over the last couple of years due to new clients but also performance has been strong.
Frankly I think I'm just a poor negotiator...but I have indications that the #'s will change this year
I'll add a non-US datapoint. Based in the UK office of a large global pension fund / SWF type organisation (e.g. GIC / Norges / Middle East SWF / Canadian Pension Funds)
Salary: £~130k
Bonus: £~150k
Type: Global Pension Fund / SWF
Description: Public Equities - analyst on a small team supporting PM.
Time at Firm: 4.5 years
Total Work Experience: 7.5 years (3 years BB ER before)
Average Hours Worked: 45-55
Can I pm you/can you pm me
Given someone bumped me on this today - thought I would post an update 6m later. Now "co-PM" type title / level. Now more like £400-500k all-in depending on returns in any given year.
Does this fund operate in the US?
That is incredible. Can i ask you a couple quick questions if you don't mind indulging me?
1. How did you find this role?
2. Do you have a CFA? Is the CFA looked favorably upon?
3. How much cold calling does the job have?
4. What are the biggest upsides & downsides of the role?
1) One of many buyside options I explored when moving across from sell side (along with small HFs, big LOs - all the usual suspects). Didn't know that much about the role before I came across it to be honest - was +vely surprised by the setup.
2) Yes (had finished it before I left the sell side). Probably helped me get interviews but hard to prove the coutnerfactual. My current org doesn't require grad hires to do it, but does offer support (study leave / funding) for those that want to.
3) Only what I want to do for channel checks etc.
4) Upsides - captive capital, long term investment approach, on an 'investment team' not part of a centralised research function. Get to spend all day actually 'investing' unlike some people I know at places in the business of selling funds who get roped in to help with fundraising / marketing.
Downsides - comp is never going to be tied directly to my P&L, upside would be a lot bigger at somewhere with a 2/20 fee structure (but I also would probably struggle to find somewhere with a risk framework that would allow me to run the kind of concentrated / long-term portfolio we have here). Some bureaucracy at times.
Salary: $92k (tier 1 city)
Bonus: 5-10%
Type: University Endowment
Time at Firm: 7 years
Total Work: 7 years
Avg Hours: 35-40
Based on the above comments it would appear I need to consider new opportunities :)
Hey I just sent you a PM
92k after 7 years at the firm? Seems extremely low?
Definitely grossly under market, there’s no getting around that.
I shared mainly to point out that not all university endowments offer lucrative pay and there is a huge disparity in the industry (in my opinion). Benefits and WLB are amazing though, and the sense of mission and fulfillment can really be incredible.
An1 in FoF in the AM arm of a BB
Salary: 110k
Expected Bonus: 70k-90k
Experience: IB SA
Hours: 50-60
This sounds about right. Other numbers on this thread sound way too low.
and maybe it is actually low?
Disagree.
70-90k is an extremely good bonus (almost to the point of me questioning whether it is totally truthful, and note "expected"). Based on my experience/knowledge I can say that is not typical unless you are pulling close to IB hours.
Is most of your work primaries? Or is it a pretty even split between primaries, secondaries and co-investments?
Most of the work is primaries and coinvestments.
Sounds like GSAM AIMS
Are top schools' endowment funds good for business school placement?
Yes
Not OP, but any datapoints for this? Thanks.
Salary: $100k
Bonus: $20k
Type: Multi-Family Office
Description: PE research team, effectively a PE FoF
Time at Firm: 2 years
Total Work Experience: 3.5 years
Average Hours Worked: 50
Type of city?
Tier 1, less expensive than NY/SF though
Posting my data below.
OP, how hard is it to move into a university endowment/pension/FoF seat w/o prior IB experience. I work in a OCIO and went to an ivy for undergrad.
Salary: $110k
Bonus: 15-35% of base performance dependent
Type: OCIO
City: T1 City (NYC, SF, Chic, LA)
Time at Firm: 1.5 years
Total Work Experience: 1.5 years
Average Hours Worked: 60
Your base seems really high for an analyst at a OCIO out of college
I am technically a 2nd year and it was raised to keep up with CoL and the general wall street raise. For my first year it was 95k. Also did not get a sign on bonus/relocation bonus. Also other benefits that the job lacks (nothing crazy but some things that are a bit more commonplace in larger more namebrand places) so they give a bit higher cash comp. As far as I know, most of the BB follow a 105-110-115 pay now too.
OP here. Very doable I think. OCIO seems more comparable to what you’d be doing than IB. I had a little experience before joining my endowment, of which only like 9 months in a quasi banking role (but not traditional IB). For you, I think the challenge is less “being qualified” and more finding an opening. There’s only so many top endowments to work for, and most of their teams are on the small side
What endowments do you consider to be top?
Can I pm you about this? Just have a few questions
.
You might not; I do. Do I think that’s the norm? No. Do I know how much I work? Yes
Do you get perks like meal stipends etc?
I’m not sure what the deal is during WFH tbh
This is incorrect. Some E&Fs require a lot of hours.
Anyone have insight into how pay scales at Ivy League / top university endowments?? (IB / S&T numbers are coming out making me sad I left.. someone throw out some high endowment numbers and make me feel better pls)
Does anyone know how much a university endowment (8bn AUM) would pay vs a massive fund like UTIMCO?
I'm looking at some associate roles after my IB analyst stint (2-3 yrs analyst experience)
This year, I made $200k+ at a >$8bn AUM endowment with a few years experience post college. Based on this thread, not sure if that’s the norm, though it seems most data points were from smaller AUM endowments. As far as pensions like UTIMCO, not really sure. Though I do think it is maybe more standardized? I remember CALPERS for example has very clear cut levels with standard (LOW) pay for each level I believe
Can I DM you?
I don't know may people in this space would love to ask you some more questions
Were your prior experience in IB and how many years if you may?
Can I pm you? Just a few questions
From a few years back:
Salary: 115k
Bonus: 60k
Type: Endowment/Foundation
Description: > $1.5 billion (NYC/SF)
Time at Firm: 1 year
Total Work Experience: 4 years
Average Hours Worked: 35 - LP life can incredibly cushy
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Offered after 3, received after 4. This in the late 2010s though, would assume it's slightly higher today.
Salary: $265k
Bonus: $600k
Type: SWF
Description: >$1 tri AuM
Time at Firm: 5 years
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Average Hours Worked: 50-70 (peak deal hours)
Geography: Non-US
Group: Direct investments, industry focused
Do you think the salary is roughly market for someone with your level of experience?
Salary: $95k
Bonus: $30k
Type: Endowment
Description: Analyst - Generalist
Time at Firm: ~6 months
Total Work Experience: 2
Average Hours Worked: 50-55
Happy to answer any questions or DMs
Hey would love to ask a few questions, can I pm you?
Of course, feel free
Is it possible to pivot to direct investing roles after a FoF role post undergrad?
bump
It's not impossible but it's certainly easier to go the opposite direction (PE --> FoF). Depends where you want to go within principal investing/PE and where you're coming from. Sorry for the non-answer, but it just really depends on a lot of factors. The short answer is yes.
No, best you could do would be secondaries or co-investments
Salary: $80
Bonus: $40 - $60
Type: University Endowment
Time at Firm: 0 years (1st job out of college)
Total Work Experience: 0 years (1st job out of college)
Average Hours Worked: 40-50
I am interested in recruiting at a university endowment, can you you please DM me? I'd love to learn more about the job!
Adding Data Point from recent Job Offer
Salary: $150k
Bonus: $100k guaranteed
Type: Insurance (PE fund and co-investments - they were looking for someone with 5-7 years of experience)
Experience: 5 years
Just want to chime in with additional color: Last couple of years has been pretty insane with all of the wealth creation that has happened. There are a ton of new family offices that have popped up that are looking to hire people with allocating experience. That's also coupled with endowment, foundation, pension, SWF, etc. returns that are on a rolling 3-5 year basis WAY above the norm and those teams are looking to expand as well. Was talking with my manager/MD and he said that among his peers, staff retention is their number one biggest concern in the face of all of this. Expect pay to go up significantly from here at all of the above in order to remain competitive.
(Background - work at a $8-10B+ E&F/Pension with 5 years of experience)
What was the interview process like and how do I get a role like this?
Sure - so like probably everything else first call is with a recruiter who tries to gauge your interest in the role and double check on your background. I then had an interview with a senior MD/PM which again covered my background, my investment process and responsibilities at my current job, the areas of markets that I covered and just overall thoughts on the markets along with hot button issues for LPs (i.e. thoughts on recycling capital for different strategies, best structure for distressed, etc.). Again I don't know if its because the recruiter knew I was in a good spot and that I wasnt actively looking but they kept trying to gauge my readiness to take the job - which ultimately was smart since I didnt end up taking it (got promoted and big pay bump in current job which I really love). Then I met with the head of the strategy (basically like the CIO), case study, and was scheduled to meet with the rest of the team (more as a formality) but pulled out just out respect for everyone's time.
As to how to get a job in the E&F/Pension/Allocator seat it really varies as there's no formal recruiting cycle like banking and though the number of seats are increasing due to, I think, what I described above they are still pretty limited. Some great recruiters for these seats are Glocap but probably a lesser well known one is Pinnacle Group, which actually has a job board and from what I can tell has good flow. I will say that having allocator experience is definitely a leg up (I started out at a Hedge Fund of Funds out of undergrad) but another one of the people I work with and was hired around the same time as me came from IB and I think thats probably becoming more common and some places (especially family offices) do a lot more co-investing and even direct investing so it really depends. Sorry if that's long winded but hope it helps!
State Pension PM
140,000
Bonus 40-45%
30-35 hours / week
Corporate pension senior analyst
$130k base
~25% bonus
YOE: 4 years
40-50hrs per week
University endowment
An1 comp is 100k base + 10k signing bonus + 30k year end bonus = 150k TC
associate TC comp is 230k
Hours are very chill, 9-5
Less than one year in IB prior to the move
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