Most attractive HFs?
Can we create a list of smart, lean (meaning headcount & aum per person), $5bn+ L/S SMs, that aren't like Tiger / Melvin / D1 / blindly levered tech etc? I can start off and will add to the list as ppl comment: Lone Pine, Skye, Apaloosa, Viking, Darsana, Third Point, Soroban, Pershing
What else?
Edit (adding to the list): TCI, ValueAct, Impala
Bump
Coatue does the tech thing but are actually holding up pretty well all things considered
imo too many IPs and it's a revolving door. But yes performance is holding up.
When I think of funds that are "attractive" per se (non-douchey founder with a great track record, great lean teams, not a sweatshop) Woodline, Voyager, Holocene, XN, and Sansome partners.
These guys are kind of attractive, but size is the issue. Would feel much more comfortable (and would make more) at a shop w/ $5+ under mgmt. Plus woodline / holocene came from pod shops which isn't my mojo. But i see what youre saying
edit: nvm, answered by another post below
Would throw in places like Arena (with Feroz), Altimeter, Dragoneer, Greenoaks. These are not blindly levered tech - these people are very smart with great economics. If anything, great time to join, get your carry marked at a low point with lots of things on sale if you can sort through the garbage.
Wait Dragoneer and Altimeter are not blindly levered tech? That's news to me
Don't know much about Arena but pretty sure the rest are pretty clearly levered tech and having a pretty rough time.
That said, I will say that shitting on funds for two (really) bad quarters is pretty short-sighted (e.g., people have been shitting on macro over the last decade which is going to make a killing for the foreseeable future). Look at Ackman's numbers from when Valeant and Herbalife were blowing up, or look at Bridgewater's 2020 numbers (they're now up like 20% YTD).
Some of the newer tech tourists might get wiped out but you'd be surprised how resilient brand/scale can be for the very largest players. "Great time to join" is a stretch IMO but the long term outlook for these funds isn't as bad as I think people make it out to be—the world is shades of gray, not black and white.
Heard you get worked hard at Holocene
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any idea how XN is doing this year?
Like the idea here - Jericho doesn’t manage $5B think it’s between $3-4B.
FYI I wouldn’t use the reg aum numbers you are probably using to find these funds cause they are probably wrong. I guess it doesn’t matter if you use it for all funds but it’s effectively over valuing the funds that use more leverage like Holocene.
holocene for example has their reg AUM at like $28B but they manage ~$9B in their HF and LO product. like XN manages less than $2B in actual AUM I think. Last I heard Darsana was at ~$3.5B
would love to have others pitch in but anything above $200MM in actual AUM per IP for the hedge fund product and >$3B in aum is probably along the lines of the actual AUM number your are looking at (there aren’t many L/S $5B+ funds in the actual HF product)
Darsana aum from last adv says $7.2bn, and Jericho says $5.2bn, no?
Re: my last response - that is inclusive of leverage… the whole point of my response is the reported number is not how much they actually manage.
In L/S equity, would add Glenview to the list and think some of the newer Viking spinouts (Fernbridge, Anomaly, Alua) are very promising but not at the scale you mentioned just yet
A good amount of attractive distressed/event driven funds with similar economics—Baupost, Elliott, Silver Point, Davidson Kempner, etc obviously come to top of mind, Farallon does both distressed and L/S. Activist (Third Point & Pershing traditionally activist, Trian, Inclusive, ValueAct, etc) funds also come to mind. Lots of ways to cut the cake.
viking spins too small. distressed economics are terrible. Shit performance + way too many IPs + credit guys are greedy. Pershing has great economics but no one gets a job there.
Yall are naming a bunch of distressed and value-oriented funds. Just because those funds are doing well right now does not mean they will be a great place to work in the future.
Lots of tech / growth oriented funds that are sharp, hedged well into this downturn, and will kill it coming out the other end.
Name some sharp hedged growth oriented SMs (other than obvious ones) that are lean and pay well lmao
We don't know yet. It's very hard to see who is doing rigorous and disciplined investing and who is just taking a ride on the tech train while the music is playing--have to wait and see where the cards fall. My money is on light street, maverick, coatue and XN tho
Would add Point 72 and Tiger Global.
surprised citadel hasnt been mentioned either. Edit: nvm OP specifically asked for single manager funds
duplicate
focus here is supposed to be l/s. these guys are credit plus they don't pay well
They’ve paid very well relative to credit funds with returns better than basically all the equity funds mentioned since they launched. Goldentree too.
Think there's no debate that Skye, Soroban, Lone Pine, Viking deserve to be on this list, right? What other funds would you guys add
Ffs have a look at Skye 13F, they have more than half the fund in Apple Google MSFT.
My top funds to work for: Darsana, D1, Lone Pine, Soroban, Value Act, TCI, Pershing Square. Other notable mentions are Viking, Tiger, Elliott, Third Point, Eminence.
I’m solving for (1) scale, (2) strong track record for 5-10+ years, (3) staying power, with either a young founder or ability to continue operating if the founder steps back, (4) good culture, (5) low turnover in investment staff.
To the poster that said that this is a great time to join [Dragoneer / Altimeter / Tiger], that could not be more false. These funds need to return 40-80%+ to get back to high water mark. LPs are redeeming money and are frustrated with the fund’s poor risk management. Your Partners and PMs have lost massive sums of money, and are not happy. They may claw their way back and be successful over time, but this is a major setback.
Right on, thanks. Exact same criteria here and thanks for sharing TCI / ValueAct, I'll add those to the list. Do you know anything about comp at the funds in your "top funds to work for" list? I'm thinking abt leaving PE soon and would ideally like to work for one of these funds.
A bit of a dumb question, but how would a career staying at my firm (mf size) look vs one of those sms (comp wise, granted I can grind it out / have real staying power)?
Not sure about Lone Pine + D1 + Darsana on that list. They are all massively down this year and suffer from the same high water mark issues as the rest of the tech funds (albeit a bit less, but the same stuff that crushed the crossovers sit in their book as well).
Other than Soroban / ValueAct / Pershing / TCI (if even those), which shops would you say are the most attractive to work performance / comp / culture wise?
Super helpful, shame some of these guys don't even have a seat a year. Feels like not even worth dreaming about
on the other hand, if your bosses are worth $10B and $5B (chase and scott), they have the ability to pay better than a lot of other smaller funds that don't have a high water mark...
in light of your math, i don't see any departures from tiger aside from sam harland. i wonder why...
My sense is that market for mid level investment professionals (1-4 years after IB+PE) at top funds generally make between $1-4M per year. That’s a wide range but depends on the fund, the year, and your performance. I’d compare that to a VP in MF private equity who makes ~$1.5-2M per year inclusive of carry. Senior hedge fund guys make much more, as do partners in private equity.
If you’re successful and work at a big fund, this career is very lucrative. On a risk adjusted basis, MF private equity is a better path, but requires longer hours, deal minutia, and internal politics. Hedge funds have higher instant gratification (both in terms of cash comp and responsibility), but are risky and have mark to market stress. I got lucky with where I landed, so am happy I left PE.
Thanks! To me it’s like, MF is a more stable career, and if I make partner obviously that could be a mid 8 / low 9 figure carry package, but requires that I play the political game properly and make good investments but it’s hard to walk away from that.
So “junior” level, similar comp but paid out in cash vs carry (but not taxed at LTCG like PE carry, correct?), plus more vol than PE. How would you say comp compares at the more sr level (4+ yrs at HF)? Is it more like PE where you have carry / equity in the fund and get a set # of bps? Thanks.
Just seems hard to think that career at these top HFs can eclipse PE partner carry — what do you think abt that?
I personally know multiple HF partners/PMs who are 30-35 years old and make 10-20M per year. Is that enough upside for you?
Look, if you want to do deals and have risk averse $, work in PE. If you like markets, want ownership and are comfortable with risk, go to HF. Based off your responses I think you’re a better fit for PE.
Surely MF PE partners don't make low 9 figures?
Low 9 figure is completely unrealistic, do not target a career based on that. There is WAY too much misinformation on this site and others. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen, but it happens so rarely you shouldn’t consider it.
Additionally, there are many funds (PE and HF) that pay well, many not mentioned on this list (mostly because this seems to be equity focused).
And as always with these threads it is important to provide context. As an example “mid career at $1-4mm” is true in a tiny group of funds (if you call mid career around 8-10yrs of experience).
The upside that is being quoted is also right but again outliers and small amount. I work at a “reputable” place and know where my comp ranks up relative to other places and there is a small group that makes the numbers being thrown around.
Select Equity
deete
Wouldn't Skye qualify as blindly levered tech...? 13f doesn't show them in the worst tech names but AMZN/MSFT is more than 50% of portfolio.
https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1xl2rm0vdvqvm/Skye-Globa…
Any chance you could post the article? dont have an II subscription. Thanks
You tryna bang a hedge fund?
Would add Impala AM to this list. Though smaller in size (~2B), they still have a large AUM per headcount (~200m), are a tiger cub, and their fund strategy (global cyclical equities) looks appealing in the same way macro does in the near future
Great fund — just added them
Goes to show how unpredictable these things are—Impala now turning into a family office (doesn't seem to be for performance related reasons though)
Anyone know anything abt palestra?
The most "attractive" hedge funds are the ones that have the most analysts that model. I'd reach out to local modeling agents to see where most of their clients work to get an idea.
Bruh lmao
Bill Ackman is very good looking and I would absolutely drop everything in my life to be with him if given the chance.
But the most attractive hedge fund manager would have to be valueact's jeff Ubben https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ivm7IJgIkD7M/v0/1200x-…; the prototypical masculine man. honestly not even close.
Could talk all day about attractive hedge funds
I’d rock with Moelis or CVP. Easy.
I’d rock with Moelis or CVP. Easy.
Any L/S outside of TCI and Egerton in Europe above $2-3bn?
Bump.
What are peoples thoughts on AKO?
Great reputation, avg returns. Great seniors but the analysts have weaker profiles than most juniors at l/s or top long only funds.
Engine capital
Bump
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Alyeska is another great <$5B+ fund. Very lowkey, not sure why, but doing very well!
Think they’re a MM no? Could be wrong
Nah you're right. Definitely MM
Anyone know ab Weiss Asset Management? Looks like multi strat? They’re recruiting from my school this fall. Friend at target said they’ve gone 25 years without a down year.
Very good shop full of career lifers. AUM relatively small but high returns and fees means comp is still very good. Strategies run more trading/arbitrage like than fundamental L/S
n
Shows the landscape outside of the US is a dead end.
What makes Soroban so attractive? See them always mentioned on this site.
Large AUM per Ip
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