Most attractive HFs?

Can we create a list of smart, lean (meaning headcount & aum per person), $5bn+ L/S SMs, that aren't like Tiger / Melvin / D1 / blindly levered tech etc? I can start off and will add to the list as ppl comment: Lone Pine, Skye, Apaloosa, Viking, Darsana, Third Point, Soroban, Pershing

What else?

Edit (adding to the list): TCI, ValueAct, Impala

Comments (85)

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 12, 2022 - 6:09pm

Bump

  • Prospect in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 6:35pm

When I think of funds that are "attractive" per se (non-douchey founder with a great track record, great lean teams, not a sweatshop) Woodline, Voyager, Holocene, XN, and Sansome partners. 

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 12, 2022 - 6:38pm

These guys are kind of attractive, but size is the issue. Would feel much more comfortable (and would make more) at a shop w/ $5+ under mgmt. Plus woodline / holocene came from pod shops which isn't my mojo. But i see what youre saying

May 12, 2022 - 6:49pm
anon16498170, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Would throw in places like Arena (with Feroz), Altimeter, Dragoneer, Greenoaks. These are not blindly levered tech - these people are very smart with great economics. If anything, great time to join, get your carry marked at a low point with lots of things on sale if you can sort through the garbage.

May 12, 2022 - 8:20pm
started2young, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Don't know much about Arena but pretty sure the rest are pretty clearly levered tech and having a pretty rough time. 

That said, I will say that shitting on funds for two (really) bad quarters is pretty short-sighted (e.g., people have been shitting on macro over the last decade which is going to make a killing for the foreseeable future). Look at Ackman's numbers from when Valeant and Herbalife were blowing up, or look at Bridgewater's 2020 numbers (they're now up like 20% YTD).

Some of the newer tech tourists might get wiped out but you'd be surprised how resilient brand/scale can be for the very largest players. "Great time to join" is a stretch IMO but the long term outlook for these funds isn't as bad as I think people make it out to be-the world is shades of gray, not black and white.

  • Investment Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 6:52pm

Like the idea here - Jericho doesn't manage $5B think it's between $3-4B.

FYI I wouldn't use the reg aum numbers you are probably using to find these funds cause they are probably wrong. I guess it doesn't matter if you use it for all funds but it's effectively over valuing the funds that use more leverage like Holocene.

holocene for example has their reg AUM at like $28B but they manage ~$9B in their HF and LO product. like XN manages less than $2B in actual AUM I think. Last I heard Darsana was at ~$3.5B

would love to have others pitch in but anything above $200MM in actual AUM per IP for the hedge fund product and >$3B in aum is probably along the lines of the actual AUM number your are looking at (there aren't many L/S $5B+ funds in the actual HF product)

  • Investment Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 10:46pm

Re: my last response - that is inclusive of leverage… the whole point of my response is the reported number is not how much they actually manage.

May 12, 2022 - 8:03pm
started2young, what's your opinion? Comment below:

In L/S equity, would add Glenview to the list and think some of the newer Viking spinouts (Fernbridge, Anomaly, Alua) are very promising but not at the scale you mentioned just yet

A good amount of attractive distressed/event driven funds with similar economics-Baupost, Elliott, Silver Point, Davidson Kempner, etc obviously come to top of mind, Farallon does both distressed and L/S. Activist (Third Point & Pershing traditionally activist, Trian, Inclusive, ValueAct, etc) funds also come to mind. Lots of ways to cut the cake.

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 12, 2022 - 10:06pm

viking spins too small. distressed economics are terrible. Shit performance + way too many IPs + credit guys are greedy. Pershing has great economics but no one gets a job there. 

May 12, 2022 - 8:18pm
FIG newton, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Yall are naming a bunch of distressed and value-oriented funds. Just because those funds are doing well right now does not mean they will be a great place to work in the future.

Lots of tech / growth oriented funds that are sharp, hedged well into this downturn, and will kill it coming out the other end.

  • Analyst 1 in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2022 - 8:22pm

Name some sharp hedged growth oriented SMs (other than obvious ones) that are lean and pay well lmao

May 12, 2022 - 8:39pm
FIG newton, what's your opinion? Comment below:

We don't know yet. It's very hard to see who is doing rigorous and disciplined investing and who is just taking a ride on the tech train while the music is playing--have to wait and see where the cards fall. My money is on light street, maverick, coatue and XN tho

  • Prospect in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2022 - 10:02pm

diameter too, they were doing well even before the downturn. heard you get worked hard and may be trading oriented due to firm dna

  • Prospect in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2022 - 10:58pm

makes sense, saw some activist names earlier in the thread and forgot about the l/s focus. unfortunate that they don't pay well, seems like a great learning experience

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 12, 2022 - 10:10pm

Think there's no debate that Skye, Soroban, Lone Pine, Viking  deserve to be on this list, right? What other funds would you guys add

Most Helpful
  • Research Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 10:33pm

My top funds to work for: Darsana, D1, Lone Pine, Soroban, Value Act, TCI, Pershing Square. Other notable mentions are Viking, Tiger, Elliott, Third Point, Eminence. 
 

I'm solving for (1) scale, (2) strong track record for 5-10+ years, (3) staying power, with either a young founder or ability to continue operating if the founder steps back, (4) good culture, (5) low turnover in investment staff. 


To the poster that said that this is a great time to join [Dragoneer / Altimeter / Tiger], that could not be more false. These funds need to return 40-80%+ to get back to high water mark. LPs are redeeming money and are frustrated with the fund's poor risk management. Your Partners and PMs have lost massive sums of money, and are not happy. They may claw their way back and be successful over time, but this is a major setback. 

  • Analyst 1 in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2022 - 10:47pm

Right on, thanks. Exact same criteria here and thanks for sharing TCI / ValueAct, I'll add those to the list. Do you know anything about comp at the funds in your "top funds to work for" list? I'm thinking abt leaving PE soon and would ideally like to work for one of these funds.

A bit of a dumb question, but how would a career staying at my firm (mf size) look vs one of those sms (comp wise, granted I can grind it out / have real staying power)?

  • Investment Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 16, 2022 - 12:32am

Not sure about Lone Pine + D1 + Darsana on that list. They are all massively down this year and suffer from the same high water mark issues as the rest of the tech funds (albeit a bit less, but the same stuff that crushed the crossovers sit in their book as well).

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 16, 2022 - 2:37pm

Other than Soroban / ValueAct / Pershing / TCI (if even those), which shops would you say are the most attractive to work performance / comp / culture wise?

  • Research Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 11:12pm

My sense is that market for mid level investment professionals (1-4 years after IB+PE) at top funds generally make between $1-4M per year. That's a wide range but depends on the fund, the year, and your performance. I'd compare that to a VP in MF private equity who makes ~$1.5-2M per year inclusive of carry. Senior hedge fund guys make much more, as do partners in private equity. 
 

If you're successful and work at a big fund, this career is very lucrative. On a risk adjusted basis, MF private equity is a better path, but requires longer hours, deal minutia, and internal politics. Hedge funds have higher instant gratification (both in terms of cash comp and responsibility), but are risky and have mark to market stress. I got lucky with where I landed, so am happy I left PE

  • Analyst 1 in PE - LBOs
May 12, 2022 - 11:47pm

Thanks! To me it's like, MF is a more stable career, and if I make partner obviously that could be a mid 8 / low 9 figure carry package, but requires that I play the political game properly and make good investments but it's hard to walk away from that.

So "junior" level, similar comp but paid out in cash vs carry (but not taxed at LTCG like PE carry, correct?), plus more vol than PE. How would you say comp compares at the more sr level (4+ yrs at HF)? Is it more like PE where you have carry / equity in the fund and get a set # of bps? Thanks.

Just seems hard to think that career at these top HFs can eclipse PE partner carry - what do you think abt that?

  • 1
  • Research Analyst in HF - EquityHedge
May 13, 2022 - 12:03am

Thanks! To me it's like, MF is a more stable career, and if I make partner obviously that could be a mid 8 / low 9 figure carry package, but requires that I play the political game properly and make good investments but it's hard to walk away from that.

So "junior" level, similar comp but paid out in cash vs carry (but not taxed at LTCG like PE carry, correct?), plus more vol than PE. How would you say comp compares at the more sr level (4+ yrs at HF)? Is it more like PE where you have carry / equity in the fund and get a set # of bps? Thanks.

Just seems hard to think that career at these top HFs can eclipse PE partner carry - what do you think abt that?

I personally know multiple HF partners/PMs who are 30-35 years old and make 10-20M per year. Is that enough upside for you? 
 

Look, if you want to do deals and have risk averse $, work in PE. If you like markets,  want ownership and are comfortable with risk, go to HF. Based off your responses I think you're a better fit for PE

  • Investment Manager in HF - Other
May 13, 2022 - 9:11am

Low 9 figure is completely unrealistic, do not target a career based on that. There is WAY too much misinformation on this site and others. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it happens so rarely you shouldn't consider it.

Additionally, there are many funds (PE and HF) that pay well, many not mentioned on this list (mostly because this seems to be equity focused). 

And as always with these threads it is important to provide context. As an example "mid career at $1-4mm" is true in a tiny group of funds (if you call mid career around 8-10yrs of experience). 

The upside that is being quoted is also right but again outliers and small amount. I work at a "reputable" place and know where my comp ranks up relative to other places and there is a small group that makes the numbers being thrown around. 

  • Intern in HF - EquityHedge
May 12, 2022 - 11:51pm

Select Equity

  • Associate 2 in PE - Growth
May 13, 2022 - 12:18pm

Any chance you could post the article? dont have an II subscription. Thanks

  • Associate 1 in PE - Other
May 13, 2022 - 4:47pm

Would add Impala AM to this list. Though smaller in size (~2B), they still have a large AUM per headcount (~200m), are a tiger cub, and their fund strategy (global cyclical equities)  looks appealing in the same way macro does in the near future

  • Analyst 1 in PE - LBOs
May 13, 2022 - 8:41pm

Great fund - just added them

  • Analyst 1 in PE - LBOs
May 13, 2022 - 8:58pm

Anyone know anything abt palestra?

May 15, 2022 - 3:47pm
baddealflow12, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Bill Ackman is very good looking and I would absolutely drop everything in my life to be with him if given the chance.

But the most attractive hedge fund manager would have to be valueact's jeff Ubben https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ivm7IJgIkD7M/v0/1200x-1.jpg  the prototypical masculine man.  honestly not even close.

Could talk all day about attractive hedge funds

May 15, 2022 - 8:27pm
monopolymatters, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Amet et molestiae enim ab. Accusantium voluptatem natus soluta. Qui dolorum ea rerum illo. Vitae illum sequi autem. Veniam quo consequuntur porro est ut id quos. Corrupti omnis voluptas neque in amet.

Accusamus voluptatum nihil similique libero voluptatem. Ipsam vitae fugiat eius voluptas et. Officia laudantium at omnis ut numquam.

Illum ut veniam qui quia. Inventore et quo dolor ad.

Sed quibusdam quo magni voluptatem. Quae excepturi facere reiciendis recusandae. Ut voluptate nesciunt error deleniti.

May 16, 2022 - 2:43pm
sa-jue, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Ab saepe quia ut et fuga quia. Distinctio officia autem et ipsum harum beatae dolores qui. Alias quisquam illum autem magni dicta. Distinctio ipsam quis reiciendis itaque eos velit quia. Qui inventore neque occaecati eius enim asperiores eligendi.

Dolorum et voluptas voluptatibus itaque eum ut nostrum. Magni est enim veniam enim enim. Molestias aliquid repudiandae alias dolore aut. Quaerat aut et harum omnis voluptatibus cum ut. Veritatis minus qui soluta. Maiores inventore consequuntur natus voluptas. Sit facilis voluptatem minima accusamus aut.

Quis eius et odit ut. Commodi maiores veritatis placeat vero sint. Distinctio odio provident et corporis dignissimos rerum unde beatae.

Start Discussion

Career Advancement Opportunities

May 2022 Hedge Fund

  • Point72 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.8%
  • AQR Capital Management 96.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.6%
  • Two Sigma Investments 94.5%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

May 2022 Hedge Fund

  • D.E. Shaw 98.9%
  • Magnetar Capital 97.8%
  • Blackstone Group 96.6%
  • Two Sigma Investments 95.5%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.4%

Professional Growth Opportunities

May 2022 Hedge Fund

  • D.E. Shaw 98.9%
  • AQR Capital Management 97.8%
  • Point72 96.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 95.7%
  • Blackstone Group 94.6%

Total Avg Compensation

May 2022 Hedge Fund

  • Portfolio Manager (8) $1,718
  • Vice President (20) $488
  • Director/MD (11) $434
  • NA (5) $306
  • Manager (4) $282
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (22) $276
  • Engineer/Quant (57) $258
  • 2nd Year Associate (28) $241
  • 1st Year Associate (71) $192
  • Analysts (209) $175
  • Intern/Summer Associate (19) $124
  • Junior Trader (5) $102
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (225) $84