Oxford vs Ivy League - US Immigration Issues. Green Card?
I am very grateful to have been accepted to the University of Oxford and Brown University to study mathematics. After graduation, I hope to pursue either quantitative finance (1st choice is quant finance) / traditional finance (2nd choice) / software engineering (3rd choice) positions.
I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two schools as my eventual goal is to get a US green card. Unfortunately, the entire process seems to be absolutely ridiculous and laborious. But, it seems like going to a school in the US might be better. Here are some different pathways I've gathered from Reddit/YouTube/ChatGPT
Brown:
(Bachelor of Science in Applied Math + CS, Double Major in Economics) [econ major helps for TN visa application I'm assuming]
- Internship: CPT visa (no problem here)
- Early Career: TN Visa
- Mid Career: Either switch to H1b or EB-3? (not sure if I can use EB visa since finance usually doesn't let you do EB)
Oxford:
(Integrated Masters Degree in Mathematics & Statistics)
- Internship: J-1 visa (hard to get from what I've heard), OR do finance internships in UK/Canada
- Early Career: TN Visa
- Mid Career: EB-2 visa?, since my degree is a graduate degree (not sure if I can use EB visa since finance usually doesn't let you do EB)
I really want to go to Oxford (it has been my dream school), but I feel like I should go to Brown. But at the same time, Oxford is an integrated masters degree.... Oxford also has MUCH MUCH better placement for quantitative finance and general finance within the UK, so I'm also thinking of a lateral transfer with a L type visa? Is that a bad idea?
One main concern I had was for traditional finance routes (e.g. investment banking, consulting, PE, etc.) you can't really apply the TN visa to finance. I've heard that you had to apply to either accountant / economist to qualify for TN visa and the company has to do some immigration law magic stuff in order to pass an investment banking job as an economist job so it seems bit risky.
What would be the best path for me? I'm worried that if I choose Oxford no one is going to hire me since the finance alumni base is small in the US.... I'm also worried I don't qualify for EB visa or TN visa as an investment banker.
Brown only has early decision, which is binding. Seems like your choice has already been made for you?
What can they even do if he doesn’t go there and chooses Oxbridge?
He is not even a US citizen. What is there for them to do to him?
If you break an ED agreement the college will blacklist your high school, effectively screwing over everyone else. Just seems like the shitty thing to do to be honest
Tough one because Oxford’s really good but the best jobs are in the US hands down even if placement from Oxford is better in the UK. You should do brown and get a job in NY. You’ll have 2-3 years to stay OPT. If you lose the visa, these companies tend to be a lil forgiving and might put you in a non US satellite office. You could also do Oxford -> top London job -> transfer to US office. But this is pretty hard.
You're much better off going Brown if working in the US is your goal.
If you are dead set on the US, then go for Brown. But if you are OK with working in the UK (at least for some time), Oxford is much better; you have a shot at US quant/ tradfi directly, but you have a far better shot at UK quant than the shot you would have in the US with Brown. Also, outside of the move that would be best for your career, Oxford is a huge opportunity if you are really into math. It's good to plan ahead, but once you start studying, you interest could change, maybe you want to do a PhD or something. Oxford is better for all those instances imo.
Having said that, you can't really go wrong either way -- congrats on getting in to both.
I can speak to the U.S. visa process for Canadians (which I assume you are given you mention the TN). I went to school in Canada before working in the States for banking (both for internship and full-time) and now in PE. I had a J-1 visa, a TN, before unique personal circumstances resulted in me getting a green card. We can start at internship and move through your first full-time gig and finally what your visa situation should look like after a few years of working in the U.S.
First off, out of all foreigners, I would venture to say Canadians have it the easiest for going to the U.S. because of the T.N. Not that it's super easy, but we do have it the best. As such, your ability to legally work in the States won't be affected all that much whether you go to Brown or Oxford. Your ability to find work, will. I'm not familiar with the programs at either school but generally going to a school in the States gives you a better shot at working in the States. You also have a stronger interview answer if they do ask you why you want to work in NYC/Miami, U.S. in general - you go to school there.
Setting that aside, here's what my journey looked like from a visa perspective as a Canadian interning and then working FT in the U.S. I can say with confidence that this was also the case for many of my Canadian peers who worked in finance in the U.S.
First - find a place willing to sponsor you. There are lists out there for what shops will take Canadians / internationals. Don't waste your time with places that have no track record of sponsorship.
If you land an internship at a place that sponsors, and you don't study in the U.S., the J-1 is actually very easy to get and is a fairly cheap visa. Similar to a TN, it gets stamped when you approach the border officer at a crossing and given that you're a student who has a specified departure date in ~10 weeks (the end of your internship), they don't usually ask any questions. Should be absolutely no issue getting a J-1. Your firm will work with a sponsoring agency (the people who verify J-1 applications and issue SEVIS numbers and DS2019) and/or lawyer to prep the documentation. I had to do a brief zoom interview with the sponsoring agency but it was a breeze. Here's a link to a good J-1 overview, pricing, and sponsoring agencies. You can see that it is quite affordable (and firms generally cover the costs).
Next, congrats, you get a return offer or successfully re-recruit for a full time gig. If you study in the States, you can use your OPT for 3 years after you graduate to work in the U.S. while your firm generally applies for an H1-B for you. If you didn't study in the States, you'll be entering on a TN. HOWEVER, your firm will generally apply for the H1-B in the year you start working for them and the visas are awarded earlier in the year (but are activated in October generally). If you luck out and draw the H1-B on your first try, you won't need OPT or the TN, you'll enter the States to start your work on an H1-B, which is ideal because you won't get asked questions about your occupation at the border like you might on a TN. H1-B can also be transferred to another employer if you leave, which gives you flexibility.
But say you aren't lucky and don't win the H1-B on your first try. You'll work on OPT if you went to school in the U.S. for the first few years before the sooner of a) you get lucky the next year (or year after) and win the H1-B lotto or b) your OPT expires and you need to get on a TN. If you go to school outside the U.S., you'll enter on an H1-B if you're lucky, or a TN. Generally, people who work in finance enter the U.S. under the economist designation or accountant designation. If you're in quant, the CS designation could also work. You are right that studying econ will help your case in front of the officer if you try and enter under as an economist (which I did, I even had my school write a letter of support for me stating that my business degree also gave me amazing econ education). Your lawyers will give you the TN border strategy. You have to be strategic where you cross into the U.S. For example, Pearson is notorious for denying economist TN, so no one flies through there. If you work in NYC, you'd be flying the Billy Bishop route and clearing the border in New York, which is more chill with economist TNs. If you work on the west coast, you'd be crossing at Vancouver or Calgary. The lawyers you work with will prep you in advance and will tell you where to cross from. Yes, it's a bit stressful if you get grilled, but everyone I knew who was crossing the border on an economist TN for the first time, made it through. Subsequent crossings are much lower risk as you already have the TN. Just avoid Pearson at all costs.
Fast-forward a bit. You've been working for a few years and are on TN or, ideally, you got your H1B (you should have your firm keep applying for an H1-B every single year until you get it). The next steps are straightforward. Get your firm to sponsor your green card (which they generally do after several years of service) or find a nice American partner to marry. The TN allows you to work for 3-year periods so hopefully you get your H1-B before it expires. If you don't, not the end of the world. You enter on another TN. You can literally fly out in the morning, chill in the airport for a few hours, and then cross into the U.S. again with your new TN documents and the process repeats itself.
Hopefully this helps, and happy to answer any questions.
Can I ask how you were able to get your school to write a letter for the amazing Econ background? Is it something a professor wrote or your business school?
My degree's undergraduate office wrote it for me, rather than a professor. I basically had them list off all the econ courses I did and argue that those + my finance degree = big brain economist.
Go to US. Job opportunities and pay is much better in US than UK. And costs are almost similar, not to mention that taxes are even higher in London than NY. There are almost 5x job openings for the same company in US vs London, it really is a no brainer. With a degree from US, and good employer in cv, if visa becomes an issue, you can easily work in London (as uk visa is very easy to get). But going from uk to US is extremely tough, the only route is L1
Why would you ever go to brown over Oxford? Unless you’re some artsy billionaire’s kid the school is a joke. The network, what you learn, and the experience will far outweigh any job benefits. He’s clearly rich enough to not worry about a 100k here or there out of college…
You would go to Brown over Oxford to maximise your chances of getting a job in the US. Maybe you dont understand how difficult it is for an outsider to get a job there because of all the visa issues.
No, all-in tax is basically the same in NYC vs London. Cost of living is much higher in NYC. There are more routes than the L1 visa.
An Oxford graduate will encounter similar difficulty (not much) landing a Finance job in London than a Brown grad will in NYC.
I have worked in both cities.
Go Brown, find Christian girls, and date to marry. Voila.
When’s the last time you were at brown? Not sure you’ll find that, but I’m sure you’ll find some chicks that like to thread the needle in their vein
lmao
Putting all visa and job prospects aside: Pick Oxford! Your social life will be so much better and totally unique over there and you will make connections for life that not even US Ivy League universities can compete with. It does depend a little bit on your college in Oxford, but most likely you are good.
And I am saying this as someone with an Ivy League and Oxbridge background.
Congrats on your admissions.
I wanted to just ask about your STEM background, since I plan to get a business or engineering degree. I personally really find engineering to be very intelligent profession, but was unsure about the buyside/sellside opportunities afterwards. What do you think about that?
Also, do you have some advice on university admissions into US? Extracurriculars advice? ED advice?
The earlier posts cover visa considerations and job opportunities very well. Let me address the education aspect.
I declined a BA in Natural Sciences at the University of Cambridge (Trinity College) in favor of attending a U.S. liberal arts college, transferring to another Ivy after my freshman year. Cambridge offered me a full scholarship (£15k annually from the Cambridge Trust, later upgraded to a Cambridge Dragon Scholarship), and both U.S. schools provided need-based full financial aid. I am not a U.S. or U.K. citizen and attended a local Asian high school without international programs like IB, AP, or A-Levels.
At the time, I knew little about finance but heard quant careers from Olympiads peers. Two main factors drove my decision to bypass Oxbridge. First, my background in math, physics, and informatics (CS) Olympiads made me seek broader exposure to social sciences, which the rigid U.K. system could not provide. Second, the U.K.’s teaching in modern fields like computer science was outdated and falling behind, with a notable lack of industrial hubs comparable to Silicon Valley. I also had friends and acquaintances who turned down Oxbridge even for full-pay public schools in the U.S. (UCLA, Georgia Tech, UCSB College of Creative Studies, UIUC, etc.) for similar reasons.
That said, Oxford’s BA in Mathematics & Statistics is the best in UK and better than Cambridge in my view. It is solid for those pursuing quant trading roles in London or Hong Kong, or aiming for a top U.S. PhD program in Stat/CS/Applied Math/ORFE then pursuing quant researchers roles. However, the PhD path is not worth pursuing unless you are genuinely committed to academic research.
Oxford’s Math & Stat BA program is rigorous, teaching Lebesgue integration in the second year and stochastic calculus in the third, alongside Probability, Measure, and Martingales, which is comparable to Cambridge’s Part III (4th year) probability exposures. Oxford also offers third-year commutative algebra. Cambridge, by contrast, no longer teaches optimization & control since Richard Weber left. This leaves students with few options to study these areas early. Moreover, Cambridge lags in modern stochastic optimization and machine learning-focused optimization, focusing instead on traditional approaches and numerical analysis.
At the MSc level, Oxford 4th year offers more options than Cambridge’s Part III. While Cambridge lists many courses, roughly a third focus on theoretical physics and a quarter on statistics. Unless you’re targeting physics, Oxford’s curriculum is more practical for probability and operations research. Pure math offerings are on par at both schools.
The teaching pace reflects their exam systems. Oxford assesses each course separately, allowing more specialized topics, while Cambridge bundles all courses into a single end-of-year exam. This restricts Cambridge’s undergraduate curriculum to subjects compatible with pure math and theoretical physics. Part III avoids these constraints, being research-focused.
Oxford has also outperformed Cambridge in U.S. Top 3 Statistics PhD placements recently, with its top 2 math and stats students securing spots at Stanford, Berkeley, and Harvard, while Cambridge seemingly has had zero representation. Despite the U.K.’s limited emphasis on undergraduate research, Oxford offers access to top research groups like VGG and Torr Vision Group (computer vision), the Oxford Robotics Institute, Stephen Roberts (machine learning), Phil Blunsom (NLP), Yee Whye Teh (Bayesian inference), etc.
For quant hedge fund research roles, strong research credentials matter. For quant trading, they don’t. Focus instead on entry-level discrete mathematics, probability, game theory, and market-making concepts. Practice brainteasers and mental math intensively. Common resources are A Practical Guide to Quantitative Finance Interviews by Xinfeng Zhou (green book) and Quant Job Interview Questions and Answers by Mark Joshi (red book). Finally, sharpen your ability to communicate clearly under pressure—firms like Jane Street value this more than coding skills, though some places expect you to solve medium-level LeetCode problems as quant traders.
Note: My opinions could be outdated or inaccurate, as I took gap years in between.
You sound very intelligent and knowledgeable. The same Asian turned down Imperial College London for a second/third tier public school (UCSD/UCSB level) in US and later transferred to a T20 (Vanderbilt/WashU/Notre Dame level). Would you mind sharing your careerv goals? Becoming a quant researcher at Citadel Securities/Jump Trading/Huderson River Trading?
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Go to Oxford. An easy decision vs Brown, much more difficult vs a Harvard or Princeton.
Firstly, do not make this important decision over perceived future US visa challenges - that would be tremendously naive. Secondly, the idea that the UK is severely lacking in Finance job opportunities vs the US is absurd. Thirdly, you should also consider cost of living - if you work in NYC, rent etc will be higher than London and you'll have less disposable income in your early years in Finance, despite higher gross compensation.
If you're resourceful, you can still make it to the US. How do I know? Because I did as a British national.
Option 1:
- Land a job at a US firm in London that sponsors (e.g. BofA, Centerview)
- Prove yourself for 2+ years and request an internal transfer to NYC
- Move across on an H1B or L1A / L1B visa
- Apply for the green card whilst in the US
Option 2 (can be done concurrently with Option 1):
- Find a girlfriend in London who is American / happens to have a US passport (there are plenty)
- If the relationship works on its own merits, get married and begin the green card application process
- Move to the US 12-24 months later, once approved as a permanent resident
You need to exercise a little delayed gratification here. Be disciplined about getting into the best university you can, which your future self will thank you for. There is a reason your gut is telling you to go to Oxford - do not overthink this.
I’m in the same boat with Oxford vs. the U.S., and I can say that just having a degree from a top university doesn’t carry you the way people assume.
Immigration officers now look at every tiny detail in the job description. I worked with Kriezelman Burton & Associates on the strategy side, and they explained it pretty clearly: if your role doesn’t match the exact visa category, you can get denied fast, whether you went to Brown, Oxford, or anywhere else.
Don’t rely only on what you read in threads like this. The rules have changed a lot since 2024.
If your ultimate goal is the US Green Card, Brown is significantly easier. OPT and the CPT process give you a much more direct foothold in the US market compared to trying to navigate the J-1 or L-1 routes from the UK.
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