Crush on a colleague - advice needed
I am an Associate 2 at a BB in New York (male). Last year I met an Analyst (female) via my company's A2A networking event, and she turned out to be from the same university as me. We chatted for a while, but did not contact each other since then.
Last month, she reached out to me asking for advice on choosing the team to "settle in" (our bank had a rotational Analyst program) and how to adapt to the high pressure work environment and stuff. Our chat went on very well. I got to know her background, hobbies, personality, and was quite attracted to her to be honest. Seeking sincere advice please:
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How could I get to know her better? Is it appropriate to actively reach out to her (considering I am older and more senior, is it likely to be perceived badly) We don't have each other's number yet, only email and Skype
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Is workplace romance at A2A level common at BBs? Any potential issues? (we're from completely different teams and in theory there is no overlap at work)
Thx!
This has been wildly discussed often here already - don't shit where you eat. Don't be a creep, and she probably sees you more of a colleague then anything else. I worked with HR at my last previous roles - I wouldn't go there. It's a pretty small world.
The comment above is right, please rub one out and re-access.
I like how this comment has +8 SBs but the poster above only got monkey shit
This is the way
Dating within your bank, and moreover, dating someone below you (who happens to be a woman)
The chances of this blowing up in your face are quite big, I am afraid. You have a high chance of ending up without a job and without a gf.
Well said, this has a much higher chance of blowing up on OP’s face than OP blowing up on her face.
Thanks mate.
How many associates have you heard of who ended up jobless because they dated an analyst.
It's unfortunately not nearly as uncommon as you'd hope.
If you like her that much, you can hit on her if one moves to another firm. Otherwise, bad idea.
This reeks of beta male desperation. It's so weird that men in senior position conflate the professional respect and gratitude from women as romance. No, fucking no. You probably give her cringes if she knows your feelings.
Actually, just go on Tinder or something. 'Crush' is something so high school, you're a grown ass adult working in professional fields, behave like one.
Someone seems very upset that their nice guy act doesn't do too hot with women
+1 spot on.
Doesnt get much more beta than going MeToo on an internet stranger, dismissing any possibility that the girl (also a complete stranger) might actually be into him. I suppose it can seem pretty implausible to those who haven’t experienced it.
Early 20s, many of us were the same way at that age. Takes some relationship/dating experience to get your head right and eventually you look back and laugh at the idea of 'crushes'. But yea your post is spot on. I remember falling for a girl in my first job out of college as well lmao
Three things:
Pro move—nothing wrong with getting to know her and being a good mentor and friend. But, be very conscious and careful of putting her in situations that she can’t say no to, however, there also is nothing wrong with being friends. Example: it’s appropriate you invite her to a party or something with other friends you know. It’s less appropriate to invite her to your apartment or a brunch one-on-one if you have romantic intentions.
I know several examples of this exact situation that worked and in all them they were friendly coworkers, to friend coworkers, to no longer coworkers and dating. Every example I have ever seen of people who have dated while both at the same firm has ended poorly. Don’t do it unless you are trying to lose your job.
Hello, very good advice and tips and thank you for being sincere. Two more questions please:
1. I heard from other alumni who work here that she is really good at building connections, i.e. catching up with the same asso / VP every other month, so chances are that she'd reach out for catch-ups again. I don't think it's an issue if I accept her invite every time? But I shouldn't be the person actively asking for catch-up?
2. I get your point that relationships are not appropriate now, but what about friendships then? Given the fact that I'm only slightly senior than her (Asso 2 vs. Analyst 2) and alumni from same major, guess we could become good friends easily. Thx.
Bruh everybody telling you the same stuff and you keep rephrasing your questions to try and justify asking her out. Go beat ya meat and read these responses again
How much is there to catch up on? Every other month wtf? Chick sounds like an annoying overachiever, she’s just going to use you for knowledge and smile in return. Highly likely she is doing the same shit with everyone so I’d move on and date someone else, if it’s supposed to work out later it will. She will likely develop desk ass and gain 30 lbs so keep that in mind as well.
Develop desk ass is crazy
had me weak as well
The desk ass & weight gain is honestly a very good point.
Elsewhere on this thread I’ve been telling the guy to go for it (with common sense precautions) because the basic “don’t shit where you eat” just seems unrealistically conservative.
But analysts both male and female can put on a lot of years during their stint. Should be monitored.
The doctor has confirmed desk ass is a plausible diagnosis
Trying to offer a different perspective. Have heard about relationships between junior bankers that've worked (not very frequent though):
- Associate 1 (my friend) met Associate 2 from a different team and chatted as friends. Gradually became familiar and grabbed dinner and coffee together. Later entered into a serious relationship, BUT kept it confidential from colleagues.
- Two analysts met at a pub and had nice conversations, later realized they worked for the same firm, started exclu. dating after a few months. Separate divisions, different floors.
Anyone heard of a similar story? Good or bad ending?
Ever?
I’d bet a significant percentage of marriages start with facts similar to the two examples you gave. Especially the first one.
White collar folks work harder than ever, and increasingly their coworkers are a large % of the people they know. I’m not saying this should be like Plan A for finding someone but it’s totally unrealistic to think it doesn’t happen frequently.
Barack Obama married his supervisor for crying out loud. The hysteria in some of the comments (not yours) is totally out of control.
Tbf it's totally different for men dating up the chain vs women. I know a guy during his SA at a MM firm that was laying pipe with his VP who was an absolute MILF. Must've done well too because he got the return offer.
MDs philander with their secretaries all the time. Just don’t get caught.
[liberally spritzes randy Associate with spray bottle]
Bad Associate, BAD! Down, boy... DOWN!
[Associate makes pleading whines and adopts submissive pose]
It used to be there was a good chance you'd meet your spouse in the office, but don't even try that these days. Unless you like pink slips or potential harrassment lawsuits even if you may not have had any ill intents. HR has people so brainwashed in fear it's less than even a 50/50 shot even if you both tried to keep it quiet. One of you would slip and the cat's out of the bag then. The only way you two should ever wind up together is once one of you leaves for another firm, different vertical or if one of you changes industries like going into corpdev/consulting instead. Basically changing anything that could be used on you as a COI.
Like everyone else has been saying, you don't know her that well yet anyways so spend the time to get to know her to find out if she's just mining you for info and clout. Not saying it's not bad having someone to look at around the office, but as the saying goes; "look, but don't touch".
YOLO my friend
I used be quite free roaming about this circa 2013-2015 (incl people senior to me) but then a switch flipped as we all know after that year and my boss basically said I get it, and it has always been 100% kosher with you, but for your own sake / risk exposure, I'd rethink it. And that was that I switched 100% to apps and women at work are now men with long hair to me. Do not risk your career. No one no matter how hot is worth it.
Try it, the worst thing that can happen is you lose your job and go to jail
This is correct. Don't do it OP.
OP - also when you think there is nothing you could do to go to jail for, always remember it’s not about what you did or did not to, it’s about what she told the police you did.
“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”
Didn't an MD at Jefferies recently get in trouble for this?
That could be said every quarter there so let’s assume yes
Unless she makes the first move, keep away you incel.
buddy, I'll make you a favor and solve your dilemma. message me her IG, I'll ask her out, so you don't have to be tempted anymore, cause she's taken.
Me too is about being in a position of power where the higher up puts the subordinate in a position where they may think their career will suffer if they say no.
How is OP in a position of power over an An 2 in a different group?
Agree you gotta be careful at navigating an office romance and if it goes bad - then you have to still see that person around the office which sucks balls. The only career risk is if you get in a me too situation.
But there is literally no risk in letting a friendship happen naturally. You gotta make sure that she is reciprocating at minimum as much as you are. But from there a romantic relationship could become a reality - but you gotta talk about the risks and lay ground rules beforehand - if it gets to that point.
But to just knee jerk say "no! You're gonna go to jail if you pursue a woman in the office?!" - that's just wrong. That attitude makes much much less optimistic about the next generation of young men…
Honestly, “don’t shit where you eat” is weak advice coming from people who either don’t know what it’s like to hit it off with someone attractive or who are too scared of risk to think about critically.
The odds of this hurting your career are zero if you take common sense precautions. She’s not going to be on your team, which is a good start. Be more conservative in your interactions, ie wait for clearer signs of interest before showing more of your interest. You might have to waddle around in the friend zone longer than you’d like. Etc etc basically just play it safe so there’s no chance she’s telling HR you creep her out.
I haven’t read all the comments but no doubt someone is saying “wHaT iF yOu BrEaK uP”. She’s an analyst, you’re an associate, odds that you’re both there 2 years from now are basically zero. People need to lighten up. Go for it and don’t be stupid, it’s fine.
being able to sleep with someone and then play it cool whenever you see them afterwards is a learned skill. Clearly most of the people here have never had the chance to sleep with a coworker. Largest risk is just your ego taking a hit if things go south
This is just dead wrong. You can lose your job, end up in jail and ruin your career. Chicks are crazy, man. What if he hooked up with her and then wasn't interested anymore, but she was interested. She will put him through hell at work. There is much downside risk to hooking up with a coworker - more than you realize. Don't stick your dick in crazy or in coworkers or in crazy coworkers. And you never know she is crazy until you're balls deep in the relationship.
OP said the chick was on 'rotational program' and reached out during the process, probably the main reason was she reaching out to all associates from different groups.
Not sure why you're persistently advise OP to go forward with hitting on her, whereas the appropriate move should be probing her interest without jeopardising OP's job.
And no, it's not about 'he won't get fired', it's about social capital during his tenure at the firm, if he makes the wrong move, he won't lose his job or get sued but his image will be damaged if words get out, he will be that creepy associate. That will negatively impact many aspects of his job.
You talk a lot, but to be honest seems like the one just enjoy hearing himself talking not actually having the experience to guide OP. Did you ever hook up /or have a romantic relationship with a colleague to begin with????
Pretty sure I said elsewhere in this thread that I was hooking up fairly openly and regularly with a colleague, though not one on my direct team. As I also said in that post, it was an environment where more of that stuff went on. But still a place where fatalistic pussies like you would never attempt anything.
Far as I can tell there’s two types of people in this thread. People who just see risk and call it a day, and people who separate risk into what they can control and what they can’t.
Also, people who never get hit on and need to tell themselves it’s bc the environment is just too professional for that. Right.
If she wants to attend events with you outside of work or get lunch often, then great. You’ll see if there’s a connection. Don’t strike out by making a big move (like asking for a date). That’s not necessary. If she wants to hang out more, you’ll see that. If there’s excuses why she’s busy, take the hint. Respect that and move on. If a person likes you back, they will make the time. Put the onus on the other person, “if there’s an interesting event you know about, feel free to let me know.” I know married couples who met at work.
Just go for it lad.
It's been said dozens of times already and here it is a dozen more.
There is no possible scenario where this is a good decision. She is not special, there is nothing unique about the fact you work in the same building or went to the same institutionalized waste of time for 4 years, and the fact she's a junior makes it even more dangerous from a professional standpoint. Do not open yourself to even the chance perception of impropriety as it simply is not worth it, BBs are corporate machines where if HR has so much as a whiff of exposure you will be canned without a second thought. Do not do it.
If you got a job elsewhere, by all means, you're free to smash.
What’s dangerous about this approach IMHO is that like so many things in life, it’s going to work 95% of the time and really burn you when it’s the wrong approach.
In this case, you’re assuming the girl isn’t special or there’s nothing unique between these two. Probably right.
But if this is one of the few that could be a legit good match for OP, then the lost opportunity is potentially huge.
In my mind it’s no different than routinely betting on a heavy favorite in sports. It feels nice to watch winnings compound as you win several in a row, with the added positive of always feeling like the next win is likely. Feels very comfortable and even responsible in the moment. But over time we know it leads to mediocre or worse outcomes.
Not saying this is the same, just saying we can easily be lulled in to feeling as though we’re doing the wise thing, just because it works most of the time. But if the risk/reward is skewed then it’s a harder decision.
BTW i threw SB not MS at your comment, lest you think otherwise.
Respectfully, I disagree.
There is literally nothing dangerous about this approach. In fact, this is definitively the least dangerous choice in this situation. I didn't say don't talk to her, don't be friendly, I just said trying to date at this time is a risky choice. Nothing bad can happen to OP if he chooses not to pursue this girl. He's talked to her a handful of times and I'm sure she's great, she's pretty, has an overlap in hobbies, whatever - it's irrelevant. Even if there is a spark, the fact is he's a more sr. professional at the same firm and she literally just joined. He knows nothing about her personally (at least as far as has been indicated, just knowing someone's background/hobbies in a professional context is not "knowing" someone).
OP is working in the single most corporatized subsection of finance by being at a bulge bracket bank, which comes with certain expectations of behavior particularly as these firms have become more accepting of women. He makes the wrong move or pisses her off in some way all she needs to do is say something in passing to one of the Jennys in HR and he's toast. No second chances, no looking for his side of the story, just shown the door. I know 2 former BB associates who had this EXACT scenario play out as I've described - 1 was fired within a week of the complaint and now works in Corp Dev in some bumfuck T3 city, the other had to quit or he would have been fired and only got the option because he had close personal ties with the MD of his group.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the idea there there are only a "few" people that can be a good match for anyone. There's nearly 4 billion women on the planet and even being conservative probably ~400m within a 3-5 year age gap of OP. Even if this girl is 1 in a million there's hundreds more just like her. Call me a pessimist, call me risk averse, I firmly do not believe any woman on the planet is worth risking my career at this point in my life. Especially with social media and reputation being able to follow you today more than ever before.
I think you're looking at this completely wrong. This is nothing like betting the heavy favorite, this is simply choosing not to make the bet in the first place. This is like the baseball analogy Buffett uses where he'll let 100+ balls go by no matter how reasonable they appear until one is perfectly situated in the strike zone. Sure, right now she checks all the boxes - except the professional risk box - and even if the odds are 95% it'll be fine, the expected value (from my perspective anyway) is still less than 0 when there's potential for complete loss of principal and possible continued fallout even after the fact. It doesn't even require he do something egregious or her being a complete psycho for it to blow up on him. It wouldn't even necessarily take her saying something, if some asshole VP saw it and said they felt something inappropriate were going on the results would be identical. He's junior enough that HR won't think twice about simply removing the risk from the firm's perspective.
I could completely wrong. He could ask her out, they could fall in love, get married, and have 10 kids for all I know and if that happens I am ecstatic for OP and wish him the best. But he came to a forum of professionals asking for advice so I am going to give him honest advice from a professional lens given what I have observed and experienced myself. If he cares about his career, it's not worth the risk. Hell, if he just moved to a diff bank in a year or two or made the jump to the buyside everything I've said can be ignored and he can ask away so I'm not saying never. Just not now. Too risky in my opinion.
Don't even trip, I stopped caring about MS when they changed the ratios of SBs and nuked my score from orbit. Even if you did, it just means we disagree which is fine. We've agreed on lots of other topics and I recognize I am an outlier in terms of being hyper-career oriented and risk-averse when it comes to professional reputation.
I don't know why you are getting MSed for this. This is fact.
People thinking with their dicks. I will never understand anyone who's willing to risk their job or worst case career for a chance with some woman they barely know. I'll give the honest advice but if people don't listen and get burned hey, there's plenty of other guys vying for his slot who won't make the same mistake.
Have had this happen to me before. Had a semi relationship and things ended poorly leading to mild depression. It didn't get any better until she actually left the firm (thank goodness).
It's super palpable to the rest of the team and highly discouraged. It felt great at the time but the come down was horrific and never want that again. Sorry man, better to cut it short here than live through hell. Seriously.
Would recommend sending a company-wide email to all analysts in her class asking for their Snapchat so as to not appear overbearing or weird
Such an idiot mannnn - just bash one out every time you think about pursuing a colleague - not worth the risk and your wasting your time not going for some leng gyaldems outside of banking
OP be honest with yourself. Are you looks matched or close? If she's a smoke and you are average at best, then the risk is very high. Men get labeled "creepy" when they fire on someone when there's no indication of anything there and where it would be an obvious mismatch. Yes, trying anything romantic with a work colleague is a risky endeavor, but if you are of a similar attractiveness and you think there's a spark, go for it, because you do not want to live with regret with this type of stuff. There's a ton of threads on here with guys depressed because they fumbled a previous girl or didn't go for what they truly want. Better to get rejected politely and get closure than live with regret.
Yooo OP, don't ever forget, a wise man once said, 'You are the main character in your romcom'. This post alone sounds like the beginning of a script of a gripping Netflix romance drama that culminates with manly tears and girly laughter. Think of the countless finance hookup puns you could pull with her together.
With a username like that and the way you’ve commented, replied, and the phrasing of your original post / the fact that you had to ask this question, did you go to Berkeley?
I went there and this post is very much what you’d see from students who went there - lack of social / hierarchical awareness and a deep thirstiness smh
Well, as someone experienced office romance before, a few questions for you:
1. Does she make time for casual time between you two? E.g. lunch together.
2. If you flirt with her in a lighthearted manner when you two go for lunch/coffee together, does she respond positively?
3. Does she give you 'the look'? Intuitively it's the kinda look that you often caught eyes with her after finding she's been looking at you and then she look away. It's the look someone gives you when the person gravitates towards you, intentionally or not. This look is very distinct, sometimes you might not notice as you're not looking her way but your other colleague can catch her looking at you might give you a hint.
4. Does she 'touch' you? Not the intimate physical touch, a very polite arm or hand touch, but if a chick likes you, she will try to touch you.
In my case. I had all of these above. There was a few instances where she tried to arrange time with me professionally (e.g. try arranging meet-up/lunch/dinner with clients so we could be together on the way to the venue and go for coffee/dessert afterwards, etc.). But I managed to resist the urge during her tenure at the firm lol. Once she changed company, we touched base and whatever should happen did happen.
If you have all these above, it's a strong sign. Then you can arrange something with her. If you're not sure, then just grab lunch with her and be lightly flirtatious, if it spooks her and she keeps distance, then a big nope. If she responds positively, then there might be something between you two.
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