ECM, the best (worst) job in IB ever?
I sincerely need some advice guys.
I’m currently in my 3rd year at ECM.
I enjoy the money (from poor family so can’t complain), work (not really interesting but not much work anyways so couldn’t bother), and hours (think 9-8 in good days)
BUT I’m only gaining very specific ECM skillsets that AREN’T applicable outside of the ECM function.
Then my friends, every now and then, remind me of how equity market is always cyclical so yeah you WILL be fired SOMETIME, left with no “real skillsets” that can help you get a job. It’s just a matter of time.
Do you agree? As an ECM guy, how do I deal with the constant fear of being fired with no tangible skillsets in my pocket?
Anything I should do? Change jobs? Self-learn some skills? What are some suggestions on what to learn? (Don’t tell me CFA pls)
I just can’t help thinking about this every few months.
YOU KNOW, people tend to feel “discomfort” after being in a comfort zone for too long..
Bump
Started off in ECM for about 2 years before switching to M&A because of no modeling exposure and not learning anything industry specific. ECM is also extremely repetitive cause its very process oriented.
At least at my BB, its hard to get fired until you the hit senior VP / Director / MD level in ECM but adding M&A experience really does broaden your options. Even a lot of the MDs in ECM started off in coverage. My thought is if you switch to coverage, its always easier to come back to ECM at say the VP level if you don't like coverage / M&A work, but its impossible to switch from ECM VP to coverage VP later on. Also, if you want to exit IB all together, experience in coverage helps a ton with recruiting.
when ppl say coverage that means covering a specific sector and all relating functions eg m&a, capital markets, levfin within that sector right?
Correct. That is USUALLY what coverage implies. Although it is very bank-specific.
Say you are in coverage and your MD wins a sell-side M&A mandate. You might not be doing any modeling because you are cooperating with the M&A group. You liaise with the client, draft CIM and teaser, and split execution work with M&A.
Just one example.
So you're from 9am to 8pm, probably little to no weekend work given the market-oriented nature, being paid the comp as coverage (me), and are asking if the grass is greener in coverage...sorry dude but you are being delusional here. Just enjoy this. You shouldn't even have to worry longer-term plan career wise as you should have a good amount saved up if you stick with it...
Yes that't the situation. Money/hours good. Work isn't interesting but generally cant complain.
Is grass greener in coverage?
I actually don't think so as coverage in my bank mostly work on IPOs (no "skills" again).
But I'm just thinking, in general, if you are in a position making good money/ hours but little skills, SHOULD YOU be WORRIED at all? (About exit, long-term prospect, no skills anything else)
Or should I just chill out?
Now what I'm doing is trying to self-learn and follow the markets myself/read books, at least try to gain some skills / perspectives myself and fill part of the "skills" gap in my job.
I believe it is important for you to develop other skills in your spare time: learning coding, take classes in e-marketing (I'm serious), sound-editing, podcasting, piano, boxing, whatever. It never hurts.
You are right that sometimes coverage groups work on a lot of IPOs and it is not as good as some other coverage groups who get both financing and M&A experiences. I work on a lot of IPOs and so far in my 1.5 years I've only had exposure to one small sell-side M&A deal that melt down super fast because of how inexperienced my MD is in M&A.
I wouldn't say the skills developed in coverage are that much "superior". Maybe we do spend more time on "industry landscape", "competitive analysis", "legal structure analysis", "REALLY high-level modeling" and all, but most it is just bullshit, trust me.
In a nutshell, I don't really see myself learning that much in the current healthcare coverage group other than something about the industry (I HATE healthcare) and how to run the IPO process.
I also post this question for PE people: how could you possibly know how to "invest" if PE is banking 2.0? I now tend to agree with this statement that I read somewhere: PE = relationships + macro cycles + leverage + perhaps some operational improvement?.
Although feel free to correct me though.
I’m in kind of a similar boat. 1st year analyst who just lateraled into a very niche ECM sector (from tech/healthcare/consumer ecm) that I have no long term interest in.
No idea what my next move is but I’ve decided I’ll figure it out when I get the axe and hopefully end up somewhere cool. Really banking on the investment banking title, brand name, and connections carrying me pretty far. Just hoping I get out before the lifestyle creep catches up (like you, from a poorer background) and can save >200k during my analysts years to give me the optionality to find something I really enjoy.
While we have no skills, compared to the average person we can use excel and ppt pretty well, bullshit our way through meetings, and have nice pedigrees and connections.
Dream job would probably be CFO or VP of finance for a NBA team or something cool like that even though it will be a huge pay cut.
Lol dude who the fuck is going to hire an ECM banker to be a CFO
That’s literally why I said it’s a dream lol
incoming capital markets analyst at a BB...it doesnt sound good LOL. would be curious about bonus/base? i assume base is same as coverage, but is bonus? what is typical bonus/what are the different buckets like?
Your bonus WILL BE inline with coverage groups. Don't worry about this.
Counterpoint: coverage banking sucks, and also has lots of herd-culling during downturns and/or at cut-off points for promotions
Agree...how is PE so far? MF? UMM? a diamond LMM?
UMM. Marginal upgrade on coverage banking (which, as a refresher, sucks).
What about the Convertible bond group within ECM? Decent hours and interesting work with more modeling from my understanding
Banks rarely make mass cuts in ECM unless it's a 2007 type meltdown... they also know it is cyclical and in times like 2021 they need the extra hands, who are hard to hire in upswings. Even coverage groups have cycles too, and BBs have enough float they're not trimming groups solely because of that. Maybe once you're a D/MD, but even VPs are fairly cheap.
If you don't mind the work I'd sit back, relax, and collect a pretty big check for your hours. Keep some extra money in fairly liquid savings if you're worried about losing your job, but unless you're underperforming I would put it out of your mind.
What’s ECM life like at boutiques such as HL and Piper?
bump
HL doesn’t have a balance sheet so you’ll never have a role bigger than co. Sometimes you’ll be an advisor but you’ll never be LL or an active. Based on my experience, they do more private placement type stuff but they are actively expanding their capital markets team.
Piper had a good year in 2021. Can’t speak on lifestyle (lots of people leaving but that was all ecm) but it seemed like they were on everything. Great year for them from a fee perspective, more busy than ever with lots of active roles. For traditional ECM experience I’d take Piper over HL any day.
This is based on my experience and friends experiences with the groups in 2021/2022.
Appreciate the response. Is there any reason to go to a shop like Piper over a BB?
ECM is the worst. Did 1 year before moving to coverage.
ECM hours were better but I was still working 8AM-11PM most days and the work always felt more intense/exhausting than coverage somehow.
Both have their flaws but I find coverage work way more interesting and the skillset is actually transferable.
Which bank?
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