Context: STEM major at non-target with a legitimately solid GPA. The only caveat being I did not have a paid work experience my sophomore summer and I'm first gen.
Well, the title says it all. I started recruiting back in June, and in the past 6 months, I've reached out to probably 800 people and spoken to 140+ professionals. I've had 2 first round interviews and one superday (not counting hirevues that they give to anybody with a heartbeat lol), but was unable to convert for all 3.
I have one potential lead left, but at this point I am considering things outside of banking.
What have you guys done in the past when shit hit the fan? I want to pick up the phone and call as many smaller/regional banks as possible, but if BB's are cutting headcount, what makes me think that firms 1/100th of the size won't do the same?
And by the way this is not a sob story for all you cynical chimps out there hahah, any real criticism/advice would be greatly appreciated.
edit: i see a lot of people have commented about fit. I've had awkward calls and amazing calls both. I can admit that I have a tendency to overshare, but then again, the personalities I've run into over the phone weren't perfect either. Maybe I should just be a trader haha
-Start applying to smaller regional firms like Citizens IB.
-Apply to corp banking and commercial banking roles
-Apply to valuation positions.
-Hit up "no name botiques"
Definitely do what the other guy said, widen your pool. That being said, you still want work for the summer, if nothing pans out the gap on your resume doesn't look too good. If you're willing to play the long game and college recruiting really isn't working, get a solid career in STEM and get your MBA, that's what I did. I interviewed with a bunch of AM and HF places but couldn't close, so did construction management (from Mech E) for a few years before MBA, transitioned into RE development but only because my tastes changed by then, I've seen people do some crazy transitions in b school. I've never worked in a bank and I understand IB is different from PE in regards to industry experience, but have a few solid years of STEM employment under your belt and an MBA could be very valuable (plus the MBA is two years of fun, why not do it?).
Yeah I'm literally considering anything and everything that's even remotely finance related. My issue with going the MBA route is that I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice the hours/stigma of being a postMBA associate at 25/26(let alone the resources to go back to school in the first place). My long term goals are not centered around banking/PE. I eventually want to move on to something a little more data driven, or corp dev for some fitness brand/company lol (I'm a math major and I'm really into exercise science or whatever). All this to say, if I don't start out in banking out of college, it doesn't seem worthwhile given my interests and goals to gun for it in the later half of my 20's...
I totally understand about being concerned about the economics of the MBA, I took out a lot of loans, but I also more than doubled my salary, so it all worked out for me. I'd recommend looking at the salary data and career options for MBAs, I know lots who've gone into corp dev and product management positions, and some doing some very quantitative "big data" type work. Look, it's not for everyone, I'm well aware of that, but I wouldn't ignore it just yet.
Also, life is so much longer than just your early 20's, If you're working til you're 65 does it really matter if you started when you are 22 or 28? or even 35 for that matter? Some of the rationale for these things don't come until later, since you're still in college I'd recommend staying on that internship search grind (or even research if you're really into quant stuff) and keep the GMAT in the back of your head. For a smart person it only takes 3-4 months to get a solid score and it can open doors with minimal opportunity cost.
I am in such a similar situation, coming from a non-target with a solid GPA and internship experiences, but failed to convert. I honestly think the way to do is cast a wider net and look at corp.dev roles as well and just keep hustling...
Keep looking man, we all gonna make it and our story is gonna be all the more interesting
this is the most inspiring quote I've read on WSO.
Im a deep non target who after 6 months of hardcore networking and a 4.0 had just three interviews. I Got two rejection phone calls within 1 minute of each other both from the two easier banks. I eventually got the offer from the third bank (which was the one I least expected to land) but for a solid week I was in your exact situation and these are my suggestions for you
You have probably already done most of them but
1. Contact every faculty/staff member at your school who worked in banking or another top finance area and ask for contacts for everyone they know in IB
2. Use Bloomberg Search or Apollo Email (free just look it up) to find any past alumni in your school who work in IB. Unlike Linkedin Apollo Email gives you there contact info
3. Use Apollo email to search for anyone who works in IB (you will find thousands of people so try and find ones you have things in common with)
4. Look for any TAS or valuation roles. The work is similar work to IB (kind of) and you can eventually move over to IB.
5. Look for any roles at a Big 4 (Accounting may not sound ideal, but they pay decent, great hours and BIG 4 has good MBA connections for there top performers. Plus if you network it will be way more beneficial and much easier than networking for IB)
6. Look up any commercial banking, Corp Finance, Public Banking like Citizens and try networking there and then applying
7. Take a job in STEM and kill it. You (could) make more, with better hours and be doing more fun work. Than if you still want to go MBA you can
8. My top suggestion for you is look for any sales and trading role... I interviewed for a BB sales and trading role and I didn't get it but Almost every member on LinkedIn at that department was a STEM major. You have a better chance to get a S&T role as a STEM major than a Business one.
I broke into a MM firm by finding an alumni on Apollo who told me he would put in a word for me if I applied.
Great hours in Big 4 accounting? Hell no. Hours can be really bad, especially if you have clients that have audits in different times of the year. I have friends who for almost 9 out of 12 months of the year have no life as accountants, and their pay and bonus is shit and not commensurate with the workload and hours they're working (Big 4 base is around 65k and bonus I think ranges from 0 - 5,000).
I wanted to write the above so that OP is aware that accounting is no cakewalk, and going in with a mindset I'll just coast through two years at a Big 4 will be an unpleasant surprise for you.
If you have spoken to 140+ people and have not been able to convert you are clearly doing something wrong. Of course like others have said, widening your pool will help, but it won't help that much if you are still doing the same thing wrong. Maybe try mocking with your peers and figuring out what it is you are not doing well enough to convert.
Yeah no you're definitely right. I realized that my fit questions are little too long and a little hard to follow. That's an easier fix. In terms of networking, it's funny because I had my resume sent to HR at a handful of BB's, some MM and EB's. The issue is that I have one summer experience on my resume, the rest are just work-study jobs and clubs. Paired with my lack of a Finance education, HR probably had a good laugh before they tossed my CV. But who knows really
Not necessarily. The vast majority of people I spoke to were willing to give advice and answer any questions but when recruiting time came around they either ghosted or said they can't really do anything. Most of the resume pushes I got were from alumni but I don't have that many alumni in IB so it was pretty limited.
yeah stuff like that happened to me too. That was just their way of getting rid of me maybe haha. It's sad because I go to a pretty good college (very fortunate of course no arrogance) with a proclaimed tight-knit alumni network. Reality is if you aren't part of a sports team it's tough to get respectable looks. But such is life
Offer to work at no-name boutiques for free. That is how I got my first experience. It sucks to be unpaid, but it opened so many doors and I had a ton more interviews because of it.
I'm looking up regional banks as we speak lol. Hell, if a bank told me to shave my head for a summer internship I would buy the razor myself.
You live in the great US of A, and I envy you because you can simply find dozens of boutiques in nearly every state. So go get a boutique internship somewhere, network to get a longer internship or even FT at a regional/lower/mid MM, gain experience, get a FT at a nice shop, gain experience again, level up, bam, BB.
In short, keep grinding king
haha yes sometimes i do take things like that for granted. And yes, I'll definitely keep grinding - wouldnt have it any other way honestly
It’s a tough tough year. Gotta keep at it.
Getting a job is about selling. I've been selling professionally for over 30 yrs. If you've had 140+ conversations with virtually no positive results, you have to be brutally honest with yourself and break down each conversation to see where you can improve. Was it the "warm up", the "fact find", the "presentation" or the "close"? All of them? Some of them? You have to have all four in each conversation and you ALWAYS have to close for the next step (so many don't do this it's amazing).
Think about it. You've asked people to take time from their day to help you. They've agreed so they want to help you. And they're not helping you so you either aren't asking for their continued help AND/OR you're not giving them the reasons to help (getting them to want to continue to help). Really. 140+ without anyone continuing to help is hard to do. That's actually impressive (sorry but you need to hear the truth). I suspect this is almost entirely a fit/ personality issue. The good thing is you can learn and work on it. Having mock calls with a friend or your career services department is a great idea. Just ask for brutal honesty. Each "call" is an opportunity to improve. Debrief after each one. Take notes on what went well and what flopped. Build fixes for the flops and try them out. This is really important if you are to find an opprotunity.
Good luck!
That was something cool to read.
Not my post and not my situation but I appreciate what you just said.
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