Curious how people handled being staffed on a project with companies they didn’t morally agree with. For example, a gaming/lodging merger for those that disapprove of gambling.
Did you request to move off the project? Stay on and ignore your morals?
No judgment here, just interested in learning how people handle these situations.
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Damn dude...the guy brought up a valid point that a moral and good human being should strive to have and you just outed yourself as a pos lmao
Hardos like that guy are insufferable.
least out-of-touch with humanity WSO user
Haha imagine getting staffed on the Altria Njoy deal and throwing a fit because you’re against vaping
Why join a REGAL group if you’d be at risk of being asked to work on something you morally object? Same with a consumer group with a strong alcohol / tobacco practice if you are generally anti-vice? I say you only have that card to pull once, if you just can’t stomach working with that company - but don’t expect to last long in your group if you’re anti an entire vertical they focus on
I work in a fairly niche sub-vertical that occasionally requires me to work directly with law enforcement facing/cop loving companies. A lot of ex police presence at some of these firms. Say whatever you want, I do not care and am prepared for the shit, but I got big into anarchistic economics as an undergrad and the police state we live in just isn’t something I ethically jive with. I personally, morally and ethically, am completely against the current law enforcement system from top to bottom and believe there are a million better ways to do it.
That being said, I get paid to do a job, not espouse my personal beliefs to senior bankers and upper level management who know a fuck ton more than I do. As such, and truly in my opinion the only correct answer, is to keep your mouth shut. If it’s something that goes against your religion, I’d argue differently as religious freedom is entirely important but there are few, if any, cases where that would come up (A sell-side of Porn Hub if you took a vow a celibacy, a cap raise for Only Fans if you’re a conservative Muslim, a buy-side involving Kanye West if you’re Jewish, etc. all imaginary but plausible and grounds for concern). 99% of the time what you do in that case, is your job; as an analyst, your job is to serve the client and turn powerpoint slides not raise the ethics of companies enabling and profiting off of alcohol/gambling addictions. There is an argument to be made at the Director/MD level about not pitching/accepting the mandate, but I don’t think that’s the question here.
There is an actual ethical dilemma in high finance in general to be raised about the actual economic value creation of our work, but that ties back to a lot of fundamentally communist belief that very few, if anyone, in finance subscribes to. This definitely is a thought provoking question and does raise a bit of a pandoras box about compromising your personal beliefs for a check, but in general it would be entirely rare for most of us.
why is shit like this allowed on this site? the world is going insane.
Let me guess. You went to Brown?
Not even close but flattered you think I’m that smart. Small rural state school from a farming family.
Fully agree. Unfortunately, its a bitter pill but you just have to swallow it. We're not paid to be moral police and so far, have not found a way around this other than to not pitch those names. As a junior, if you can sneak off the deal team for other reasons, good on you. Voicing moral concerns is not the way.
We had a staffer once who didn't want to work on a deal based on their ethnic identity/religion. It was a defense deal (not even a big one) and the relevant colleagues' family was living in the affected region that would be "impacted" by the funding/weapons/other.
Our management moved him to a different group and that was it.
And those kind of deals weren't even that common to begin with.
Can’t give much detail but worked on a deal involving cattle farming in the Amazon border. It involved a substantial area of the forest being burned down. I hated myself for not saying anything
Fyi, according to real climate science (not propaganda), burning plants would only release the carbon that would still be INEVITABLY released once a leaf dies or shed parts of the plant decay based on life cycle (i.e. makes no practical difference in climate change). Being concerned about forests & biodiversity is holding to an obsession that nature itself doesn't share (entire hundreds of species have been obliterated many times over the last few billion years due to disease, naturally changing habitat conditions, predatorial (food) consumption by other animals, natural disasters, famines & malnutrition, etc.) why should the extinctions carried out for human benefit & wealth creation suddenly be a moral problem. Modern Liberal silliness knows no bounds.
PS: give me all the MS, but the fact remains that I got my information from Encyclopedia Brittanica (go blame them for not embracing the popular hysteria)
Current scientific thought is that reforestation is the most effective way to reduce carbon emissions after they have been produced. Obviously not making them to start with is best. Burning a forest down is counterproductive. No liberal rant here. Just facts. If we don’t stand for our beliefs who will?
I see you believe in your moral values. Do you believe more/less in the freedoms of America? That's a personal question only you can answer.
I object to certain mergers like T-mobile/Sprint or Albertsons/Kroger but I would never say anything. Doesn’t look good professionally
What do those companies do?
Cellular and grocery, respectively. Objection is probably because of decreased competition in consolidated markets
I play three games (four, but mainly three) in my head that are below:
1. how my friends afford their lifestyle
2. how a business stays solvent
3. where you/someone "draws the line".
Where you draw the line is a fun game because you can play it for other people or for yourself; meaning, say someone says they won't spend $100 on healthy food because its "too expensive" but easily blow past that at the bar; I see where you draw the line.
Point I'm relating back to is, at OP, with work like this, it becomes a game of where you draw the line. As people said above, its about the business not about the morals. For most businesses you can point to an ugly side to it. For example, gambling, I'd assume someone would object because someone can become addicted to it and most people who gamble can't afford to lose that money in the first place. What about say an apparel company, such as Lululemon, yes, you can't get addicted (maybe shopping addiction), but Lulu knows they are most likely selling some leggings to people who probably should be buying clothes at cheaper places; which in a way is the same as gambling, you run business where you know you shouldn't be taking some people's money but you do anyway. Probably same with say Starbucks; overpriced and probably contribute to obesity. Maybe you object to all things above, maybe some, maybe none. My point is, if you go up or down the chain enough you'll find something you're against. Im not saying dont have morals, definitely stand up for what you believe in, don't do anything illegal, but realize the world will keep turning.
Assuming you are a junior person in an investment bank, that is generally not a role where you are afforded the luxury to make decisions based on your own personal sense of morality. You work for a firm that is going to make business decisions based on what is legally permissible and market appropriate, not based on what juniors think is right or wrong. And that will be true as a junior person working in any for-profit organization, to be honest. So yes - stay on and "ignore" your morals. But if you are even asking this question, you should probably re-evaluate your expectations.
I wasnt staffed on the deal but when I was in banking at Barclays, I emailed our ESG head and risk head when it became public knowledge that we were doing a bond raise for a private prison deal. Never got a response but the deal ended up getting pulled due to public outcry a few weeks later anyways...
Lol. Meanwhile Corecivic went on to complete a successful debt raise led by smaller banks where the fee moved the needle on their bottom line.
Sorry I'm not American (so I'm not familiar with its weird politics), what exactly was the cause for outcry regarding a private prison bond?
Private prisons monetize slave labor in the US (slave labor exists in prisons in the US and companies will use them to make some products).
I don’t see why it would be a big deal to talk to the staffer and see if someone else can take on the project instead? If not and a switch would f someone else’s situation, than maybe yea - eat the moral “loss” and take one for the team.
guy I worked with stepped out of analysing condom business due to his beliefs (catholic)
*pulled out
Did it impact his career at all? I'm a little worried about how things like that, plus not working on Sundays, may be taken (Catholic) - if one were otherwise a good performer, would they be looked down upon? Cheers
he ended up becoming the director of research. I have the feeling that employees/beliefs are more respected in the UK thought, can't comment on USA.
Asides healthcare (& perhaps FMCG), what industry groups are such condom-related things likely to appear?
The only deals I am morally objected to are ones that don’t close… so to answer your question, yes all the time
Yes. Was staffed on OF transaction. I was interested at first, prior to due diligence after that it was just morally wrong & disappointing
Why was it morally wrong? Curious to hear what dd came up that changed your mind given that OF is heralded as an alternative that give the "power to the content creators"
What is OF
LOL I can only imagine the slide with a sample of creator ‘content’ and trends driving ‘adoption’
Belle delphine slide go crazy
mergers usually destroy value so you should be happy to be staffed on deals for companies you dislike
But the destruction of value is felt by low level workers not the executives who are making all the problematic decisions.
probably by both eventually
The world is a deeply unfair place, with injustices occurring on a daily basis.
You can:
- do nothing
- object loudly
- try to change it
For me, the easiest way to try and change it is by having the capital and position to get people to listen to me. By doing that, I sometimes have to do my job and just get over it.
It sucks, but think more long term about it - use this job (or get a new job) in a way that enables you to reach your goals.
Wow how soft are the new juniors in this woke era we live in?
You can’t work on a regal deal because you’re morally opposed to gambling?
Jesus.
cringe
my client went BK11 during our process for causing the opioid epidemic. we were selling assets to pay the medicaid settlement they knew was coming. one of the indications for the drug was for opioid use and we got told (over the phone ofc) to remove every reference in the CIP.
Take comfort in the fact that it could always be worse!
Imagine being a junior consultant along for the ride at Mckinsey cranking out a bunch of materials to help pharma companies pump more opioids into Appalachian communities while avoiding/defeating impending litigation
I refused to work on a large marijuana related transaction because of my moral objection to it. I recently, unknowingly, worked on a transaction related to invitro fertilization services for LBGTQ couples. I would have rolled off that engagement as well, if I knew. It was presented to me as "women's health."
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