Help me understand the new generations…

I've been reading this forum for a while, and I came to the realization that I don't understand the new ANL classes. I don't know your motivations, your game-plan, and more broadly why joining this industry (especially given how much bitching I see on this forum).

I'm a 40 year old male. I've worked my ass off and probably will continue to work my ass off for another 10 productive years until I'm financially at the place where I want to be, the kids are out of my payroll, etc.

There were aspects of this job that I didn't like when I was a junior (facetime, not controlling my calendar, some assholes I had to work for/with), and there are many aspects that I don't like now either (politics, short-term focus on the next fee, lack of accountability when we miss deals, etc.). On the overall, I like this job more than many other jobs I know, and think it is better than some of my friends' jobs. I feel lucky to be in this industry. And I enjoy life.

So if you are a summer intern, an incoming analyst, a full time analyst , etc. - I want to hear from you, your story, what you think about this job and the industry, etc.

Comments (132)

  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Gen
2mo 

Grew up middle class with a couple siblings. We were okay for money but never completely in the clear. Dad worked in a very cyclical industry and had some bad years. We always knew when money was tight. Very thankful for everything my parents provided but anytime they would make a comment about money I felt so bad. My overall goal is to get off his payroll as soon as possible.

After I Interned this past summer I was pleasantly surprised. I absolutely loved my group and generally was excited to learn. A lot of great mentors who I am excited to learn from for the next couple years. Originally, I was only concerned about money but my focus has shifted. Meet some great mentors, help others who come from smaller schools like I did and maintain relationships with close friends/family. Hope this provides some perspective.

  • 9
  • 1
Controversial
  • Intern in IB-M&A
2mo 

Most of the people bitching about a career providing a 6 figure salary as a 22 year old are ungrateful. Either they grew up that way being sheltered in their bubble or they read too much sjw bullshit online about WLB, mental health, salary growth not catching up to inflation, meaning of life etc.

  • 48
  • 27
  • Intern in IB-M&A
2mo 

@ those throwing MS. Come at me.

I've served in the military, and just can't fathom why anyone would be complaining about making so much money sitting on a desk typing on a laptop in a nice office. Wow you work long hours, ok and? Not like you didn't know about it beforehand. You're stressed because of the passive aggressiveness? Your job doesn't provide you with meaning? Why the fuck would you try to find meaning in your life in a job. It's just a job. Find meaning in some other thing. It's your fault for making your job your identity. Everyone that did their fair time rolling around in actual trenches (hate when people that have never even held a shovel say they've been in the trenches working on deadline or something) will agree on how less stressful and well paying the roles actually are. Anyone complaining are ungrateful.

  • 47
  • 21
1mo 
floppy dog, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I feel the same way.  I served active duty in USMC.  My parents are immigrants who fled from the Cultural Revolution.  So I get it.

Banking is a joke.  Yeah the hours are long but you are literally a desk jockey.  Who gives a shit.  The dinners and Ubers home are comped and the office is climate controlled.  You get paid an absolutely obscene amount of money.  You are never in danger.  You can turn into a fat slob and won't get fired, whereas the military actually has physical fitness standards.

And once you decide to leave there are a plethora of opportunities afterwards. It's a pretty good gig.  People are soft, but people will always be soft.

1mo 
tokeville, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Shit take lmao. You clearly must have forgotten what it was like to be in the military. Being in the army was easy as pie; probably easier than banking tbh. Yet people complained there too; it's the enlisted mans god-given right to bitch. Same here; same everywhere. Life's never perfect, there's always something to complain about.

  • 3
  • 1
  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
1mo 

Dude please stop with this military hardo bullshit, you're making all of us vets look bad. I honestly agree with a couple of your points, but this machoistic chest-puffing for being a vet is cringe af. We're fortunate to live in a country that honors and respects its veterans, but doesn't mean you should be an arrogant prick about it...

1mo 
bawstin, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Thank you for your service 🫡

  • 2
  • 1
1mo 
RedHotMonkeyBanker, what's your opinion? Comment below:

just jerked yourself from doing manual labor and being in the military, wow. 

  • 3
  • 1
1mo 
NFG1111, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Can tell by the way you write about your service (and your tone) that you didn't do sh*t in the military.

Sincerely,

Someone who served long before you did.

  • Intern in IB-M&A
2mo 

Not saying those aren't real. They're very real. But having the privilege of making 100k+ right out of college for doing mindless tasks in a sheltered office environment and still complaining is mind bogling to me.

I've served in the military and anyone with an average IQ that's served will be able to crush it at the sweatiest banks and groups. Yall are just whiny asf.

  • 14
  • 11
Funniest
  • VP in IB-M&A
2mo 

Thank you for mentioning in back to back posts that you served in the military. I did too, btw, for 8 years, and would like to just highlight that you clearly are one of those veterans with a huge sense of entitlement because you decided to join the military. Funny to me that you criticize banking analysts for being entitled while yanking your own crank about your last job. Rest of us vets would prefer you please just shut the fuck up, nobody is impressed. Also, you're an intern, so please shut up twice. 

2mo 
xiaochengopalbatista, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Ahh wouldn't be WSO without an intern giving out the most freezing cold take

8.8% YoY inflation is just what the woke liberals want you to think !!

Damn sjws and their fake news narrative that wage growth hasn't even been close to matching GDP growth over the past 4+ decades

Bro I made 70k base and 45k bonus in banking a decade ago. That's 150k inflation adjusted. If you take mean 5% (nominal) gdp growth that's 190k. I think analysts make that now so what are you bitching about? I didn't have any protected weekends you guys work less 

  • 4
  • 1
  • Incoming Analyst in PE - LBOs
2mo 

Ahh wouldn't be WSO without an intern giving out the most freezing cold take

8.8% YoY inflation is just what the woke liberals want you to think !!

Damn sjws and their fake news narrative that wage growth hasn't even been close to matching GDP growth over the past 4+ decades

Dude I made 70k base 10 years ago as an analyst y'all are doing fine. We didn't  have protected weekends 

  • Intern in IB-M&A
1mo 

I think you and other commenters on this thread come off as super insecure and jealous.. like yeah you served in the military and made no money, why are you holding up 100k for a graduate when that's what they worked hard and sacrificed many aspects of their youth like it's such a big deal.

And it also seems hypocritical to criticise those who want meaning from their jobs, when most who join the military do so for meaning (or are in such a desperate position that it would make sense you would berate 22 year olds who have worked their asses off and sacrificed to get into banking for wanting the best for their their circumstances).

Also almost everyone on WSO who wants to be a banker actually likes doing deals and like analysing companies. And they like it so much they don't mind sacrificing long working hours. What they don't like is assholes who create unnecessary bs work that doesn't add value for the client and ruins weekends for no reason. You say get meaning outside of work, but how is anyone supposed to do that if they can't even spare one or two evenings a week to spend with a partner or with a friend.

It really is people who get no joy out of life and have a slave mentality that make investment banking a worse place to work. Make your healthy colleagues look bad by eating too many assess for no good reason. Create try hard 40 page appendices with irrelevant analysis that ruins weekends and no one will ever read. Then become senior and hand the same shit back down to juniors and then wonder why all your brightest people leave to the buy side. Well no surprises the people who leave are the ones who really enjoy the work.

  • 7
  • 1
2mo 
[email protected], what's your opinion? Comment below:

One thing that might be different with younger generations is our inherent distrust of corporations and large institutions. I'm 22-24 and some of my earlier memories are of the 08' crisis.

While the last ten years have been relatively breezy with low rates, job switching has become more common culturally. Nobody wants to be a company man, and people are skeptical about the motives of the companies we work for.

One thing that accompanies this is the mindset that our current roles are always a stepping stone for whatever is next.

People want wealth, but don't want to necessarily endure what your generation went through to accrue it. Some might say this is a lazy mindset, while others would argue that your generation failed to capture much of the value you provided to corporations in the early parts of your career.

  • 29
2mo 
[email protected], what's your opinion? Comment below:

One thing to add:

I think that growing up while seeing zucc and other young entrepreneurs strike it big taught us that success isn't necessarily tied to age. While banking is certainly an apprenticeship, and part of being a successful MD is building a quality personal brand and network, I believe that many young analysts believe they could do the job at a younger age.

There is an absolute hellish grind to moving through the ranks, and much of the process work done at some of the younger levels appears to be busywork that doesn't provide an opportunity to grow.

  • 6
  • Intern in IB - Cov
2mo 

What his generation went through? It was multiples easier to build wealth for someone his age than it is for someone of ours. It's not like there's some laziness gene that started to materialize in recent generations only (although circumstances may have contributed to it .) Point being that the difficulty part is not a factor 

  • 4
1mo 
Dr. Rahma Dikhinmahas, what's your opinion? Comment below:

That's a lot of confidence being shown by the younger generation, which grew up at a time of 2-3% GDP growth.  Older generations grew up in times of much higher growth.  When they took their first job, they didn't have to worry about competing with the guy next to them for the promotion; because when they're up for promotion 4-5 yrs later, the economy has doubled in size and there's now two midlevel jobs for those two guys to take.

So I guess my question is, which one is it?  On the one hand I hear a lot of "OK Boomer" which is to mean that the older generation had it easy.  Now I'm hearing "we don't want to grind like you did, because we dont' have to".  Those seem conflicting to me.

Most Helpful
  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
2mo 

Congrats on MD by 40. 

Personally, I have no desire to travel that same path. IB is a miserable existence and doesn't deserve 20 years of my time (I value it too much). I could mindlessly drone my way to the VP level and have enough EQ to make it Director. I dislike how much of your identity that work becomes.

I joined IB to pick up the requisite skillset to become an operator and work for myself. I can't fathom the thought being someone else's errand boy for the rest of my life. 

  • 52
  • 1
2mo 
BeveragedFinance, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Respect the view

I'm interested though when people say "I want to learn how to operate my own business" or "work for myself" by working in IB.

What parts of the analyst/associate years actually help you operate your own small business from the ground up? What tangible operational skills do you get?

Sure, you might see a lot of companies in X coverage area - but from a pretty high level.

2mo 
FinancelsWacc, what's your opinion? Comment below:

For me personally it's less about "oh look the things I do show me how to run a business" and more along the lines of "I get to be a generalist that sees all parts of a business and some interesting financial lifecycle moments (IPO, seed capital, acquisition, etc.)" which I think provides a foundation that optimizes your potential as an operator / entrepreneur.

Will many fail? Absolutely.

Will I fail? Yeah, most likely.

Is there another job that I think minimizes my chances at failing as much as banking? No. There really aren't many other gigs that provide as much educational value and breadth of exposure as IB.

1mo 
ADTIBE, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Some notes...

First, let's stop pretending that the grass is greener on the other side (i.e. entrepreneurship). You're 22 years old making six figures, getting bi-weekly paychecks without ever thinking twice about getting paid on time, in full. Which leads me to...

Good luck walking away from a stable/solid six figure salary AND taking on substantial personal liability just to make around the same (if that?) money. Business ownership isn't as sexy as standing around and giving other people orders-- you will be breaking fingernails, princess.

Oh and here's the best part; you can can quit IB and even the finance industry, but you can't quit or slack off (quiet quit) on your own business. I hear economic downturns and other "black swan" events are a bitch. 

Sure you can make it BIG, but when you come from luxury/privilege, it's hard to walk away (and stay away) from certainty. Yeah, you can lose your job, but rarely does someone lose their entire career.
 

There's a reason why so many immigrants start a business; they come from nothing, have no opportunity cost and no career opportunities, period. That kind of hunger, ambition and hustle can't exist without those circumstances. 

Source: parents are business owners, and looking for a buyer. 
 

2mo 
donatello23, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Just look around you, how life changed in 20 years and how IB changed meanwhile. That basically sums up the answer. Why work in a toxic and rigid environment in IB with same values as 20 years ago, when you can go work for one of these fancy new companies/startups that are more adapted to the new world/culture. Then people of 30+ years ask why the new generation Z bitch around to work in the same old values. Bitching is because the olds are rigid and not open to change, hard to adapt to changes. Not even discriminating you, because that's how life is, we will be in your place in 20 years, asking why generations born during COVID bitch around.

Peace.

  • 7
2mo 
george_soros, what's your opinion? Comment below:

In my experience, IB is definitively not toxic. Don't think it's rigid either, but granted we are not where innovation takes place.

For what is worth, very few of people my age is thrilled about their jobs, across industries. Friends at tech (Twitter, Google, Amazon, Facebook) all bitching about the same things (hard to move up the chain, unhappy with comp, even at some firms bitching about culture, WLB, etc.). Friends at MBB for the most part exit to corporate because they couldn't handle travel and family. The ones that stayed are happy, but make less than IB and travel more, but feel they are less at risk of getting fired, have more transferable skills, and more exit opportunities. The few close friends in PE (at good shops) are making way more than IB, but also work way more.

  • 1
  • 1
  • Intern in IB - Cov
1mo 

Wanna shout out to my VP. An MD on our team absolutely shits on our analyst Saturday policy, and this VP works extra to shield us from it. Hella respect for him. 

2mo 
HardosAnonymous, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Back in the day if you wanted to make a lot of money out of undergrad you had to go to Wall Street and eat shit. And you got paid a lot more than any other alternative at 22 years old to eat shit. Now we eat shit and see our tech friends make very similar money and not eat shit. Naturally, we don't want to eat shit if we don't get paid a premium for it.

2mo 
apple red, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Inflation is devouring the pay edge. 20 years ago, 150k was real money. 150k could buy you fancy watches and luxurious suits.150k for college new grad was unheard of and people would drop their jaws hearing it. One in a thousand jobs paid 150k. It was an absolute badge of honor marking the top 1% elite.

Nowadays, 150k is poverty line. It could barely afford rent and food in HCOL areas. Average Joe on the street are getting 150k offer. Even trade support at Jane Street get 150k base first year. And they just do trade reconciliations working 8-5.

College kids are playing cards with decks of 250k offers and they throw away 300k offers just for remote work. The world has changed.

People have never changed. The new generation are still greedy, ambitious, and money-chasing like the older generations were. But new generations have more leverage and bargain, that's all. 

  • 20
  • 17
  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
2mo 

Mind sharing what companies / roles provide $250/300k starting comp? And how does that evolve over 5 years? I'm genuinely curious.Most of my friends in corporate (FAANG, large CPG) are capping out at $300k in their late 30s. Same with others at startups (plus I saw the comp packages of clients, so I know how much many C-level or SVP folks made at startups… not a lot unless you get a great exit…)

2mo 
Arroz con Pollo, what's your opinion? Comment below:

That guy is talking out of his ass. Outside of trading, banking, hedge funds, private equity, and a select few tech roles, making over $150k straight out of undergrad is unheard of. I'd like to hear how much that guy makes - it seems everyone saying how easy it is to get these massive comp packages are never the ones receiving them.

The note about $150k being poverty in a HCOL is absolute nonsense. The amount of just straight trash posted on this site by people who aren't even out of college yet is ridiculous

1mo 
jackdonaghykabletownceo, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I have to believe this is a troll comment, because it's inconceivable to me that someone could compare $150k/yr out of school to poverty. And if you are being serious, I would recommend you expand your horizons slightly past Manhattan/SF/the inside of your colon.

2mo 
YoungThuggaLaCroix, what's your opinion? Comment below:

As a now PE associate - i'll bite on why i went into banking and why i left

I went into banking to learn from the best, to progress my financial skills including modelling, cover clients, and understand corporate transactions. I kinda knew it would suck as far as work-life balance but I was ready to live with that in order to grow. I had a really smart, detail-oriented director who i worked with directly - was a bit of a dick sometimes and an almost robotic stickler for detail but i respected him immensely as a professional and learned a lot from him.

Why did I leave banking? My director moved to another city meaning he was replaced with somebody who despite being more pleasant to work with, meant I would not grow or develop as quickly (didn't care about the details, just getting deals done). I realised I wanted to be on the investors side and the skills I was building were capping out and it would be better for me to develop outside of banking. Whilst I was happy to have a bad work-life balance, I think i underestimated heading into it how hard directors and managing directors worked. My naive view heading in was that being an analyst - VP would be tough, but once you became a director / MD your life became much easier. I realised quickly that if anything they worked constantly, were constantly contactable, didn't properly take holidays, and heading at home at six didn't mean they weren't working. I do not want to work 70 hour weeks when I am a father and I am happy to sacrifice in my long-term career to be there for my future children, and as such I could not see myself as an MD.

Just my view - i'm still working a lot in PE and working hard but i'm hoping that it will be part of the path to that golden career where i can provide for a family and yet attend soccer practice.

2mo 
Sirmonkey92, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Really appreciated this comment. I have also had people I would run through a brick wall for, once that person left......

  • 1
  • Intern in IB - Gen
2mo 

Immigrated at 9 and grew up in pretty much the hood (south Asian). Lived in one bedroom and stilling living in one bedroom with parents while going to college nearby (non target) was able to make it this past summer and got my return. Personally being in the condition I am in where my parents barely make anything in a HCOL I don't have the room to bitch, I just have to work hard until I make a name for myself. I don't mind the endless hours of doing PowerPoints or bullshit work because I have experienced worst stuff in my life so, in a sense I appreciate high finance/banking. Although I don't mind the hours I would be upset if I had to deal with disrespectful people in the industry which I have yet to deal with. From my

Experience this summer there were interns who complained about the hours than than got the return is is deciding to come back to complain more….and all those people grew up in a very privileged household so From their perspective this job isn't a necessity for them to progress in life where for me it is so I am willing to take the shit at the early end of my career

  • 8
2mo 
Spicyboi, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Grew up similar to you in very high crime areas where a lot of kids who I used to kick it with from my childhood are now wannabe gangbangers.

Would love to chat, but that's the drive that got me through my summer and everything in life. Being surrounded by a lot of bums definitely gives you another type of boost to put in the work and do whatever it takes to be on the top.

I think a lot of people here are oblivious to what the majority of the country and even world live like. Yes, the hours sometimes fucking suck and VPs that give unnecessary tasks should be sent to the gulag, but we have to make the most of the opportunities given to us and keep grinding towards some goal(s)

2mo 
Failed_son, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Lol would love to chat, it's rare to see that someone in this space had a similar experience as me

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
2mo 

I hear a lot of MDs say things like this. I have a lot of MDs at my firm that are always talking about "back when I was an analyst…". The reality is this - banking culture has not changed much. Analysts still get brutally worked to no end and the hierarchy is more concrete than ever. Yes, I am grateful for being able to make a great salary and the opportunity my parents gave me by raising 4 kids with middle class salaries in, let's be honest, virtually two serious economic breakdowns in less than 2 decades. That being said, working 80-100 hour work weeks months on end is not something to scoff at. There are only very particular people that can do that for an extended period and who believe that is worth the money.

I can't speak for others but, my knees and back bother me now, there are days that I probably only eat 500-800 calories (I'm 6ft, 170lb), weekends that I'm spending hours putting 70 page pitch decks together in which we end up using 10 pages of, etc., etc., etc. There is a lot of avoidable pain in this industry and I don't see anyone making an effort to lessen it. Just because you went through the pain we did doesn't make our pain any less. I am sure you complained and griped as well because most people would. Yes, you can say we're lucky for the opportunity, lucky to be able to provide, but that doesn't mean we can't complain. Everyone complains, that's just human nature.

I only joined this industry for the money and the ability to give myself the opportunity to be part of something more (whether a small startup, my own business, etc.). I don't have an interest in realigning PPT logos, turning models, and doing mindless industry research for an ungrateful shithead who has no respect for my time or frankly, his time either. This industry is an incredible stepping stone to many great things. Most times you have to go through pain to get to great things and that's a reality everyone in IB lives with. I am thankful for what this industry has given me, everyone involved in giving the opportunity to me but not quite as thankful for what the industry has done and will do to me. I can't exactly say it's been fun…

  • 6
2mo 
bluecollarfinanceguy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I'm 29 (millennial) and an As2, but going to bite here anywaysGrew up super middle class in the rust belt. Both of my parents had back office operational type roles at F500 companies and together made ~$100k per year.

They worked hard and me and my brothers never wanted for anything. A few small vacations a year (amusement parks, Florida type stuff). They also were pretty frugal and prioritized saving. They're your typical "millionaire next door type". Well off but not rich. I wanted to be rich.

Thriftiness and diligence were passed down to me. I have been working as much as possible and saving as much as possible ever since I was 14. One day when I was a teenager I stumbled across a compound interest calculator…typical financial advice tells most people stuff like "hey save $10k a year and you can retire when you're 60".

The concept of compounding hit me hard. I realized that sure, you can become a millionaire by saving a little bit each year over a long period of time….but I thought, what if I saved $100k/year? $200k/year? $300k/year?

After this epiphany I prioritized maximizing my personal FCF to investments. This is how I made every major decision in my life when I was young.

I lived at home and commuted to a state school for college

I worked Full Time through college in a back office job at a BB

All said and done I was able to graduate from UG at 22, no student loans and on top of that saved up $100k. With this alone I had already beat the game.

I wanted to keep the snowball rolling, so decided to pursue IB after graduation with the BB I was already at. IB was the perfect fit for me. With the skill set I have it would allow me (personally) to maximize my earnings at a young age. All other traditional high paying careers were not a fit for me and also not aligned with my skill set.

Anyways, it took a couple of years and I had to move to a new city and take a few different roles along the way, but I eventually slotted into a 1st year analyst spot in a product group when I was 25.

I've been with the group ~3.5 years now and have been top bucket every year. Current NW is just a smidge under $1mm. I like the group and plan to keep at it as long as I can. Now that I've built up a substantial net worth at a young age I've learned to be a little looser with the purse strings as well as compounding should do most of the work for me from here.

Exec Sum on why banking for me: I'm a pretty average middle class dude with a killer work ethic. Banking was my chance to get rich in my own relative terms. For me a life changing opportunity and I wouldn't change a thing, and I'm glad I've made the sacrifices that I have. I realize money doesn't motivate as many people as it used to, but it still motivates me. Even if I never invest a single dollar again I'm going to become a decamillionaire. There are no other paths that I am aware of or that were available to me that would allow me to do this.

2mo 
bluecollarfinanceguy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

A few more thoughts from me now that I'm reflecting on this:

1) while I've summarized my story in a few paragraphs, and on the surface it looks like "easy and straightforward" I think it is worth noting that it was extremely difficult and challenging. Many ups and downs. Specifically the 3 years it took me post graduation to get a front office job. I honestly attribute the majority of my "success" to the simple fact that I had conviction in myself and never gave up. Too many people now throw in the towel on everything at the first sight of hardship or as soon there are any bumps in the road. Keep pushing, believe in yourself, and have conviction. Momentum is real. Sometimes it is at your favor and other times it is not. Take advantage of it when it is and keep your head down and keep working when it's not.

2) Take the long view, things take time. I see/hear about a lot of first years who want to quit banking 6 months, 1 year in, etc. I'm not saying everyone should be a lifer. That's unrealistic and obviously it wouldn't work. But think about how hard someone has to work to get a job in banking, and think about how silly it is to throw it all away so early on. In my opinion anyone who gets a seat at the table should do everything in their power to finish their analyst stint the whole way through. If banking is not for you, then pivot elsewhere after your analyst gig. If you like it go A2A and keep plugging away. To me personally it looks much better to formally complete an analyst program and then pivot as opposed to only doing 6 months and then leaving. To me that's a red flag.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
2mo 

What did you to do reach that 1m in terms on investments

1mo 
BofADeezBritishNuts, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Great story and similar to my own background. Mind if I ask, how did you get a back office BB job in college?

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
2mo 

My background is middle-class, public school my entire life, felt pretty lucky to break into IB and still feel grateful. 

There are good and bad things about the job. It's a thousand times easier than manual labor (I worked a few months in construction after graduating high-school, when I had no idea what to do with my life, and IB has nothing compared to roofing, breaking concrete, or digging out pipes in summer), most people are hard-working and noticeably sharper than average, and the pay/experience is much better than most other white-collar jobs. The real issues are the length of time (I work at least 80 hours a week, usually 90+, but I also know other groups at my bank that work far fewer with the same pay), bad attitudes (really boils down to a particularly crap associate who is hell to work with), and wasted work (particularly when turning comments for some of my associates, who are more likely to make mistakes and get caught up in the process of a 'perfect deck' rather than focusing on what our VPs and MDs actually care about). Overall, I'm okay with the work and am not rushing to leave the industry in general, though I am looking to optimize my bank/industry.

For me, working up to MD is not a dream job, because my MDs are at your age and older but are still putting dozens of hours of work in and getting screwed over by internal politics and clients. It's honestly really weird to me that some of them make 7 figures but live basically the same routine I do. Meanwhile, I see good companies either grow organically or get bought up by sponsors/strategics, and founders/execs pulling in big paydays and stock options so they can retire and answer to no one except the tax man.  Can I actually become the sort of lead guy on the buy-side or join/build the right company to benefit? Maybe, maybe not. Are there issues with these paths that I may be less aware of now? Certainly. But becoming an owner feels like the only real path to fortune and freedom. 

2mo 
Hard Ass Jeff, what's your opinion? Comment below:
[Comment removed by mod team]
2mo 
Amicable Chungus, what's your opinion? Comment below:

We're all here for the money. Some of us coincidentally happen to be a better fit than others and subsequently don't hate our lives. I happen to be one of the lucky ones who, in addition to primarily caring about where my next check comes from, actually does happen to enjoy the access to and interaction with smart, successful and/or minor league famous people. 

NGL, I get pretty psyched when I can show my friends I was on a conference call with THE Chief Accounting Officer of XYZ Public Company. Yes that makes me a prestige whore, but don't slut shame, you know you like it too. 

  • 1
2mo 
2rigged2fail, what's your opinion? Comment below:

it may be partially because of the ease of wealth creation we can see some people attain these days. social media wasn't 'a thing' 20 years ago, but seeing people your own age become multi millionaires doing 'fun' things on YouTube/tiktok/instagram without the 100hr workweek slog may have an affect on peoples perceptions. just a thought

  • 4
  • Analyst 3+ in CorpFin
1mo 

100% this. Seeing peers aged 18-25 make £10-20k p/m NET running dropshipping stores, social agencies, re-selling gigs etc. all whilst you are slaving away for not even half of that is quite demoralising. The obvious ease at which *some* people make money online these days is astounding. I see the talent pool only shrinking further in the future as people recognise they can work on their own terms, lead a relatively 'cool' life and not have to bow down to corporate politics that are still endemic.

  • Analyst 1 in VC
2mo 

I grew up essentially poor, my mum raising me on GBP 19k a year. To this day I still have anxiety about money. I interned in a BB first because I knew they paid the most and I could learn to like the job, I met a great MD and Associate, who taught me everything I know, how to be a good analyst and manage my responsibilities, how to plan my time, how to enjoy myself and not to feel less then, so now my motivations are to be a good mentor because my mother doesn't need to worry about anything and give advice to people with my background who want to do more. 

I think my perspective is slightly different to my peers who grew better off, because I'm happy with my job and dont feel like i need to look for the next thing or think about what my stepping stone is. 

  • Investment Analyst in HF - Other
2mo 

Recently joined an HF so no longer a banker but I want to chime in

Echoing what others have said on this thread, the younger generations don't have faith in companies and we are very skeptical of their motives.  I don't really see value in being a loyal corporate guy when I know I'm replaceable and will be cast aside very quickly. 

Unlike others on this thread though, I actually grew up in a very privileged position.  Very nice house in a safe suburb with great public schools.  Had an stress-free childhood with little ambition or hunger because I never really saw my parents so I had freedom to go to my/friends' pool and home theater.  Consequently, I was very complacent in my younger years and when the best school I could get into was a non-target, life hit me like a brick wall.  Suddenly, I couldn't be on cruise control with life.  

Worked extremely hard from the non-target and eventually made it to an MM then BB.  Worked even harder at BB to be top bucket analyst.  Since then, I've always had a fear of becoming complacent and drove my hunger to do the best.  

Just like IB hasn't changed significantly, the ambition of junior bankers won't change.  There will always be people born/get into undesirable conditions who rather than give-up, work even harder.  

2mo 
marketMergerMaddie, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Congratulations on your successful career. I admire your work ethic and willingness to finance the future of your children. 

I had always been interested in STEM stuff though high school and enrolled in an engineering university, but the summer before attending I was hired for an internship in investing at the company I currently work for. I had gone to a private school whose attendants were decidedly middle-class, and nearly all work internships before going to college after graduation doing things as varied as construction to tax preparation to music creation to even investment banking.

It seemed for me to be able to pursue the career I wanted that starting and working in investment banking was simply put, a necessity. The idea of putting in the time to do the work was never trouble or anything I shied away from. It was just another challenge. Just as completing university with three majors and an honors thesis was a challenge. Just as working 18 hours / week in through school was a challenge. I came up with offers for two MM / EB shops for the summers after my sophomore and junior year. I eventually changed to my current company after these internships. 

The one thing I have to mention about the people I worked with is that I found those I worked with in 2019 and 2020 to be especially different. I can't put my finger on on why, but I discussed on another post. I believe to an extent "right person" for the analyst role changed over the pandemic. The person who could sit in their parents basement for 20 hours / day and crank out slides and update models is different from the kind who will be trained to close deals in the future. Hiring became depersonalized and to a smaller extent cultures changed meaning that new classes look a quite a bit different in their overall makeup from old classes. What brought those people was the allure of a successful career path and exit opportunities galore. Not just about making money today, but a gateway to making lots of money tomorrow. Among those I worked closely with, few if any plan on long term careers in investment banking or even at a company. They may even want to learn the skills. But all want to avoid corporate nonsense. 

My comment from before

  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
2mo 

I have worked in IB for a few years now and have noticed several things, many of which have already been mentioned in this thread.

  1. Young people have become increasingly distrustful and negative on large corporations. There have been clear trends that indicate stagnant pay despite rising profits and cost of living broadly. Even with the base raises in 2021 I still consider analysts to be underpaid relative to total comp figures from the early 2000s purely because the work is the same. Also banks being extremely stingy on things like seamless allowances, Ubers, wfh stipends, and bonuses do not help at all. These things matter a great deal to young employees.
  1. Banking can still be a great crash course education on how companies work or to get a 2 year primer on a particular industry.
  1. Banking is still way behind culturally compared to other industries. Despite hollow wfh initiatives, my experience has been that these policies are rarely enforced or respected. Still have a lot of boomer MDs mandating 5 days a week in office. Completely unnecessary imo. Also the willingness to blow up weekends and holidays at the drop of a hot a on meaningless shit will never cease to amaze me. We do so much stupid shit that doesn't add any value or generate business it's wild.

Banking for me just isn't it man. I look at all the seniors in my group and they are all extremely insecure guys deep down who are trying to compensate for something. The money is good but it aint what it was, and not at all worth what you have to sacrifice in my view.

2mo 
Esuric, what's your opinion? Comment below:

In a world of side hustles, IG models, influencers and streamers, the attractiveness of working 90 hours a week, for $90K in after-tax income, isn't what it used to be. 

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
  • 7
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
1mo 

Why the hell did I have to scroll down this far to find this. Your answer pretty much sums it all up. There's way too much overthinking going on above and just flat-out false claims trying to equate today's "110K base" or whatever with pre-GFC comp. Throw out 2020/2021 anomalies and look at this summer's normalized comp figures. Yes, analysts ARE underpaid especially when compared to the opportunity cost

Too many people forget that while a regular 9-5 will pay less it opens the door to being able to work on any of the above side-hustles / businesses. You literally cannot do such a thing in banking. Even if you are in a "chill" group, you'll have compliance down your ass the moment you make any decent money elsewhere. The JOB is your life and the cope that VPs spew on this forum of "well, you're learning so much!" is ridiculous. What have I learned that's going to command a comparable salry outside of PE/HF? Serious question because I honestly don't know outside of formatting/being organized with time.

1mo 
Kevin25, what's your opinion? Comment below:

so you would be an IG model / influencer / streamer if you worked 9-5 instead of banking? I think people overestimate these side hustles due to how random success in there is.

  • 1
  • 2
1mo 
Sequoia, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Some great thoughts above, key ones I think that matter as to why people aren't as enthused about the IB track as prior gens (in rough order of importance):

1. Alternatives. Namely tech. Why work 170k all-in for 70-90hrs a week for yrs when you can do 120k all-in in a non-coding role (with equity) at a FAANG for 35hrs a week?

2. Prior gens struggled much harder because they came from a place of greater struggle vs high relative comfort we have these days. Next gens become weaker and weaker over time in their tenacity / grit / willingness to suffer (As founder of 4 seasons said, excellence is the capacity to take pain). There is a lot of truth to saying that 'hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times.' What's happening now isn't unique in history but we're pretty much in the 4th stages of this cycle in the dev world 

3. Social Media. Influencer / creator has been de-facto opportunity that most crave these days. Easy come easy go mentality

4. Corps not as paternalistic today as they used to be in mid-late 20th century. Tech is likely the biggest culprit in causing pace of disruption to accelerate so companies can't afford to be paternalistic (and even if they good that won't lead to as high ROICs)

  • 3
1mo 
Mighty Burrito, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Labor economics 101, the first thing you learn: labor/leisure trade off. I'm 48, have had 15+ jobs in my life (starting at 15…but always fun jobs), my great grandfather worked in a coal mine at age 5. He saw the invention of the "weekend". That terns to drift towards "leisure" as capital builds up in a society. Also, every generation I know going back 3 and forwards 1 in my family…makes choices that serve no purpose than showing the next generation we can make our own choices. See: music, food, etc.

  • 2
1mo 
technoviking, what's your opinion? Comment below:

my first job out of college in 2010 was public accounting. It became very clear to me that the path to partner was attractive but hard work, and if i was willing to work that hard for 12-14 years then i might as well work that hard in IB/PE and be wealthier. it is a similar trade for the youth of today, except the alternatives require less of a grind, better cultures for comparable compensation. 

1mo 
Ovechkin08, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Desk analyst on a high yield trading desk at a BB in London (close to the big 40). Pre-GFC traders on my desk made 4-5m a year and a good desk analyst made 1m. Today, my desk head makes 1-1.5m (most of that deferred over 3 years in stock) and a good desk analyst makes 350-400k. Factor in the complete detachment between house prices and incomes (went from 4x pre-GFC in London to 10x today) and what you are seeing is a weeding out of those who only joined this business because they saw Gordon Gekko flying around in a private jet or watched Margin Call. I happen to like what I do and enjoy the work so I don't mind but the days of VPs buying pads in Chelsea/Kensington/Sloan Square are long gone....now it's live outside the capital in a commuter town so you can afford a garden and private school fees for 2 kids.   

  • 5
1mo 
ironman32, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Echoing what is said above, but through a different lense:

1. They say in the service industry, if you get bad service you tell 5 people, but if you get good service you only tell 1. Same probably here, you hear more from the disgruntled people than from the people who are happy in the job.

2. I think there is more to do outside of work. In prior years, decades ago, work was the thing you did outside of being with you family, people really didn't have hobbies or interests particularly. Now, more people ever are probably working to live/fund hobbies than at any other time. 

3. I also think if has to do with the way people live now; meaning, we are always use to more and more, moving up and never moving down. I always give the example of bathrooms, my grandparents raised my mom and uncle in a 1 bathroom house, my parents raised my brother and I in a 1.5 bathroom house and my brother house with his wife and 2 kids has 3 bathrooms. If you total people today they had to live in a one bathroom house with a family of four they would think they were poor. So people in yester-years of banking, everything was always moving up for them, where as now, people taking banking roles are realizing the value of a dollar, but don't want to move to a lower level of living. If you look at the responses above, most people thriving seem to be coming from a middle class household. 

1mo 
FlyingBoat, what's your opinion? Comment below:

New generations are spoiled by tech. Spoiled. If  tech keeps the spoiling going on, no one would get off bed at 9am.

What's even worse ? HFT is joining the spoil party. When big tech offers frosting cakes to spoil the new generations, HFT offers diamond cakes with Gold frosting to please the mighty millennium lord. The spoil party is going out of control.

It's time for ibanking to join the spoil party before it's too late ! Spoil millennials with good wlb and golden paychecks ! That's the only way for ibanking to keep its little crown in job market.

  • 2
  • 1
1mo 
IncomingIBDreject, what's your opinion? Comment below:

There is nothing called "spoiling" in tech. There is a high demand for a smaller pool of qualified candidates, so pay will be higher. If anything executive compensation has risen 10X relative to the regular worker (20X to 200+X ) so they are the ones getting spoiled and have connections in the BOD to "justify" their high salaries and bonuses. 

Array

1mo 
FlyingBoat, what's your opinion? Comment below:

You haven't seen those spoiled kids. Gave them a huge offer and they were like "Is it remote?". They'd rather work in their small apartment than coming to the large and fancy office. Why? Remote is a cover-up for not working. They're laying on bed and browsing Netflix in pajamas. Watching Tik Tok videos. Or even working from Florida beach in bathing suit. They'd ask for double TC if employer pulls them into office. Damn, we gave them double TC and the next thing they asked for was more sign-on. They were like "Can we come only 2 days per week"? And they were mumbling about company food not being delicious. Definitely spoiled.

I miss the good old days when young people grind for money. The spoiled new generations want half the grind, double the money. Now the tech layoff should teach them a good lesson. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
1mo 

I am an incoming analyst. I grew up living a comfortable middle-class lifestyle in the suburbs. Most of my friends are still living off their parents and the type to settle for a simple $60k/year engineering job. I knew I wanted more. Ended up going to a small state school and aspired to land at a MM firm close to home. My fate changed, and I did an SA stint in NYC. I basically fantasized the lifestyle and every day felt like a movie. Reality is the firm and group culture were extremely rough, lost 15 pounds. Lot of facetime and last-minute deadlines. My friends at other firms, had much better experiences. I did enjoy the team, network and exposure to high level deals. Another factor really was the status/influence. Got invited to parties, dinners, and met celebrities, simply off a SA title. I see IB as a life changing opportunity, that can lead to much more. Hope to get an MBA, become a PE boss, and eventually run for public office.  

  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
1mo 

Thanks for sharing. I'll vote for you.

  • Developer in PE - Other
1mo 

The industry doesn't pay as well as it used to, hence you are getting more middle class/upper middle class kids at investment banks The typical upper class student at HYPSM is going to Med School, T14 Law School, Top Tech job, Comp Sci, startup, etc. 

If you're set to inherit a low-mid 8 figure amount, this industry is pointless to get into. 

  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
1mo 

If I were to inherit low 8 figure number, I'd agree that probably any job that is not enjoyable is close to pointless.

Not sure that's the case for most undergrad students at target schools.

  • Developer in PE - Other
1mo 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/yale-university

19% come from the top 1% (This is excluding internationals, which make up almost 10 percent an ivy league undergrad class). 

Lot of my friends parents also became much wealthier after I graduated (parents sold their business, some got super high corporate positions, investments did well, etc.). Most of their parents are still working. 

Would guess maybe 20-25% of an ivy league undergrad class is set to inherit 8 figures? Not most, but a good amount....

  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
1mo 

Fear and hate can be a motivation. But just as advice, try to focus on living your life vs. competing to out earn people you hate. You'll never be happy that way.

  • 1
1mo 
Jamie_Diamond, what's your opinion? Comment below:

lol this MD should work at a ford factory - confusing bitching and whinning with wanting better work life balance and pay is nothing unique to this generation

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

  • 3
1mo 
TaxHavenFTW, what's your opinion? Comment below:

If humans were satisfied we would never progress and most new inventions wouldn't exist, people want more money. Also, most things in the workplace are a waste of time, i.e. pointless meetings were everyone wants to be heard and nothing gets done. 

1mo 
SlopesAndModels, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Because I guarantee that it is worse now for analysts than when you were coming up. I am not sure you were analyst but if were not it would explain your comments. None the less, yes pay has come up but so have work expectations. I've spoken with very senior people (head of entire divisions in their 40s-50s) and not once when they were analysts did they have entire months without a single day of rest. They never stayed awake for 72 hours straight with assholes breathing down their necks. Yes I know some mid to late 30s bankers who were analysts from 05-09 that and had an even tougher go of it but they are also leaving in droves now.

The people make this job. One set of MDs / VPs I work for respect me and the work I do and never once have I ever complained seriously or considered quitting while working for them. They other set of MDs VPs are incompetent, yell at me for their mistakes, were never analysts so offer ridiculous timelines to the client without asking us how long it will take, make us sit in on 8-9 hours of a calls a day and then get angry when work wasn't progressed quickly during that time, refuse to provide mark ups and expect us to read their minds and laugh at us when we do not give them exactly what they want and simply say "try again." They will keep us awake for 48-72 hours straight when they go to sleep at 10pm then get angry when our attention to detail deteriorates with 3 hours of sleep the entire week. I already have a PE job lined up because I actually thoroughly enjoy investing and hate all the backing into the clients numbers and telling the client exactly what they want to hear even if they are wrong that happens in investment banking. I hate being wrong when I know the right answer. Even if I didn't have a PE job lined up I would still be looking to leave because the people above me make my life hell.

Also understand that if you are really expecting to hire the best you are competing with hedge funds, private equity firms, and large technology companies that arguably offer better comp and better lifestyles.

  • 5
  • Works at Other
1mo 

Your generation had the benefit of a rising tide. We do not. Basically unless someone in your generation majorly fucked up, despite all the abuse and hours, you were still going to get promoted and comped properly.

That wasn't the case until the pandemic + tech hiring away alot of junior talent.

I graduated in 2015 and until the pandemic, UK analyst bases barely moved.

Also, money went a much longer way during your generation. Especially wrt primary home, and you could put some of that bonus down to investment properties. No such luck for us.

If banks want to make a change, maybe grow junior salaries past 2008 levels and axe unproductive MDs (who ironically create the most bullshit work)? Oh wait, it took a global pandemic and labour rebellion 14 years later to do that.

  • 5
  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
1mo 

I can understand many of the points you raise. I could have a list of examples on how those issues are shared among many industries, including tech, VC, etc. And how pay is good vs. most other non-finance industries, even if lower vs. pre-GFC. Or how 5 years into the job a good ASO could clear $400-500k working 60 hours per week, while folks in tech are much lower than that.

But don't want to pitch you IB. What I don't understand is, if this is an industry characterized by:

  • full of assholes
  • toxic culture
  • declining, non-innovative
  • uninteresting job, mostly involves moving logos on a page and processing markups
  • job insecurity, could get fired at any time
  • bad pay vs. other industries
  • awful hours
  • uninspiring role models, most senior bankers are sad, insecure

Then why on earth are you on WSO and trying to break in? That's what I don't understand.

I'm not saying you should join the industry and stay for life. But you must find that this industry provides you some value. And our PE clients that require 2-3 years of IB experience must think that you actually learn something while in IB…

  • 2
  • 5
1mo 
rabbit, what's your opinion? Comment below:

This community skews young. What they don't see at the junior level, and frankly what we as an industry don't do a good job of is highlighting the fun parts that they don't get exposure to. All they're generally looped into is the construction of the materials. Deal strategy, negotiation, stakeholder management are incredibly fun and not many juniors get any exposure to that. Seeing the trees, missing the forest.

A lot of the complaints feel to me like they stem from a lack of purpose. Late nights and weekends without being looped into the "why" of all the work is grinding. PE is more hands on, more operational, you'll see it described on the forums as more "intellectually challenging" and "stimulating'. It scratches that purpose itch.

I was considering putting out a "what I love about banking" post touching on these things. Seeing as there are a couple of MDs like you on here, maybe you would consider doing one? 

  • Associate 2 in PE - LBOs
1mo 
[Comment removed by mod team]
  • Intern in IB - Cov
1mo 

I could have a list of examples on how those issues are shared among many industries, including tech, VC, etc. And how pay is good vs. most other non-finance industries, even if lower vs. pre-GFC. Or how 5 years into the job a good ASO could clear $400-500k working 60 hours per week, while folks in tech are much lower than that.

because people like you say stuff like this (and why should we listen to the 80% of analysts that hate their life? an MD should know better right?), and we actually get to the job and realize that while there may be exceptions, the reality is that all of these points are just plain false for a vast majority of analysts entering the industry.

anyone that has spent any time working at a comparable tech company or consulting firm knows that these issues are NOT common and that finance has a disproportionate number of toxic personalities. yes pay is good, but $4-500k on 60hrs is obviously not realistic, and I can just as easily cherry pick any decent engineer that makes 80% of that on 40hrs as an engineer with the same YOE (not accounting for stock appreciation).

at least, this has been my experience. during a buyside internship the associates (who came from groups/banks revered by this forum) told me to quit finance and go into tech since I have relevant skills. I ignored that and did a BB SA where the analysts warned us that we were being pampered (despite doing 80+ hours regularly) but I chose instead to listen to the MDs and signed a return. eventually I finally realized I have too many options to be spending 2 years of my life dealing with this and decided ill be reneging soon to go with a far better opportunity, which I never would have gotten had I continued listening to senior bankers.

if banks want to compete for decent talent, they cant just "provide some value", they need to provide comparable value to MBB, faang, startups, t2 consulting, etc. they have not been able to do this, which is why all my MDs were complaining about how analysts "arent as good as they used to be", and I dont see this problem going away anytime soon.

  • 4
  • Works at Other
1mo 

Maybe you are an awesome MD and you don't realise that you're the exception. 

Or maybe you are the problem and don't realise.

I made it to the buyside and frankly I never learnt to model from my IB (not JP / MS / GS but not 3rd tier either).

My senior analyst wasn't great at modelling and the VP, who didn't even have the excuse of being an MBA assoc (he was a career banker), had the talent of turning everything he touched to shit. Both junior and senior people (SVPs and MDs) kept all work away from him and he was only involved when the MD (our regional head) tried to make his pet look useful.

  • 2
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Cov
1mo 

I agree with a lot of this thread, but one aspect not mentioned is I think this generation has grown up with more information at their fingertips and more technology than anyone previously. I think this directly affects analysts in a few ways:

  1. You see influencers and YouTubers living "fulfilled" lives, including a whole genre of "ex-banker" videos showcasing how their lives magically improved after they left. I think that in your generation there was not many you heard about in your circle that was doing better or felt more fulfilled than you, but this generation constantly sees people living the traveling van life or whatever and they get bragged to that it is the best possible thing. Even if embellished or outright lies, someone's superior life is thrown in front of us daily from streamers to influencers to OnlyFans models. In a way, ignorance is bliss and if you live in a world of only Wall Street people you can easily convince yourself  you have it the best and work hard, where as today I hear about a 17 year old who is a multi-millionaire almost daily. Comparison is truly the thief of joy.
  2. Part of growing up with the internet means we honestly have learned so much at such an earlier age, I think that the mystique and learning opportunity of working in IB is lost on many. There are so many finance podcasts out there many likely feel they have a better grasp on the economy than their VP, and so feel that their talent is wasted. This may or may not be true, but I think it yields to people looking for intellectual curiosity type of jobs (startups, impact funds, etc) vs. sticking it out at a much earlier age. I think there is a premium to being fulfilled and I think with the internet many enter IB feeling that they could get 60% of it online on their own even if untrue.
  3. Many of us don't understand the value of money. With '08 sucking it away, the boom of the 2010s and then COVID + inflation I think so many people honestly feel saving is useless and so just live free if you can. There is a reason why traditional institutions such as the church or marriage is being less utilized, I think people have the feeling after the last 15 years of just live for yourself as there is no reason to think toward a future that won't exist. Many have just given up.
1mo 
Xhamster02, what's your opinion? Comment below:

With the amount of high paying jobs in other industries, analysts don't want to grind as hard when they see others enjoying life outside of work. Also comparing lifestyle to what is on the gram causes depression. Making analysts come in 5 days a week when hybrid clearly works causes resentment especially when seniors wfh. Money is not a hugely motivating factor like it was for boomers. Fake deadlines, being treated like shit, 100+ page pitch books that could be max 15 pages, etc. 

  • Managing Director in IB - Cov
1mo 

Which industries pay more than IB 2-3-4-5 years post undergrad?

People keep saying tech and I don't know anyone except SWE that make anything comparable day 1, and they mostly lag IB compensation 3-4 years in.

I actually know I make significantly more than every single one of my friends that work in tech. And I did more than them throughout my ASO/VO/DIR years too. Most of them get capped at $250-300k total comp at large cap tech companies like Amazon, Google, Meta. Friends at Series B/C startups make tops $250k if they are CEO/CFO (these are profitable businesses btw). They all have some (varying levels of) equity which depending on valuation may be worth something. But you are depending on an exit. I know of some friends that exit after 5-10 years and got $1-3m. Others have to go from one startup to the next and it's been more than 10 years without any exit making $250k per year if lucky. The only ones I know that "made it" are founders of successful companies that exit and made probably more than $5-20m in the exit. I know 3 of those. Real businesses. They had to put an inordinate amount of effort + luck for many years and an amount of stress (+ their life savings at risk). It was at least 5 years of no fun, no holidays, no money. I also know some that were not successful and after closing their business they went to work at a corporate (one at Google, one to PayPal).

Here some links on compensation at Amazon (non-tech) and Google (tech).

Amazon (non-tech):

https://us15.campaign-archive.com/?u=193d11f07e03cd0d21878cdec&id=e4c6624632

Google (tech)

https://mackgrenfell.com/salary-calculator/google-l6

  • 2
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
1mo 

Eos alias officiis fuga molestiae molestiae. Enim perferendis ut enim. Debitis aut illum qui quia.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
1mo 

Excepturi recusandae velit optio. Error consequuntur recusandae corporis voluptas modi aut sed. Voluptatem enim eum esse accusantium iure eaque distinctio enim.

Debitis pariatur modi sunt rerum sed. Veritatis cupiditate vitae praesentium placeat eveniet minus quia. Temporibus qui mollitia vitae et nihil laudantium quo. Rerum quis autem est rerum.

Nulla accusantium sequi debitis maxime ipsam sunt dignissimos. Ut fuga nesciunt iure aspernatur dolore autem. Consequuntur voluptas id est est qui commodi. Eos ad iusto vel nemo nisi sed. Fugit ipsa nihil qui maiores provident qui.

1mo 
1s0l2, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Voluptatem similique porro necessitatibus et. Dolores similique rerum soluta vel omnis vitae. Atque et ut voluptatem nostrum sit nulla.

Et consectetur vitae reiciendis totam eum assumenda. Et iure perferendis sint sunt possimus. Ut mollitia laborum voluptatem eveniet dolor libero dolorem. Harum quia eligendi corrupti quibusdam ut. Deleniti quibusdam rerum iure ad magnam nesciunt.

Consequatur pariatur harum nobis ut. Temporibus repellat et quia. Nobis pariatur rerum et dignissimos. Perspiciatis enim quo culpa velit non ex. Ut consequatur explicabo nulla hic soluta quidem. Et non velit ullam ratione vel esse. Magnam quia dignissimos non asperiores est.

Itaque ipsa ut iure ipsa quia quas inventore. Dolorem voluptatem et consequuntur quaerat doloribus. Tenetur quae blanditiis suscipit libero. Magni consequatur adipisci ex tempora.

1mo 
normanhelm, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Nihil nisi minus optio natus doloremque. Ut ullam dolorem dignissimos. Aut et adipisci veritatis unde maxime excepturi. In officia fugit aut excepturi voluptatem quasi esse.

Ut odit amet qui aut error ea. Reiciendis aut iure fugit eos et. Ratione alias et et magni.

Quia molestias pariatur tenetur neque facere et harum. Eos ipsam tenetur ullam est hic recusandae pariatur ratione. Veritatis harum et ab sequi minima reiciendis similique. Cumque vel illo minima. Neque autem facilis aliquam et quia recusandae ut.

[Comment removed by mod team]
Start Discussion

Popular Content See all

Career Advancement Opportunities

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres (+ +) 99.5%
  • Jefferies & Company (▽01) 99.1%
  • Lincoln International (▽01) 98.6%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▽01) 98.1%
  • William Blair (▲08) 97.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Canaccord Genuity (▲04) 99.5%
  • William Blair (▲04) 99.0%
  • Lincoln International (▲09) 98.6%
  • Jefferies & Company (▲06) 98.1%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▲09) 97.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres (▲15) 99.5%
  • Financial Technology Partners (▲09) 99.1%
  • Lincoln International (= =) 98.6%
  • Jefferies & Company (▽03) 98.1%
  • William Blair (▲01) 97.7%

Total Avg Compensation

January 2023 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (6) $592
  • Vice President (23) $401
  • Associates (134) $264
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (9) $194
  • 2nd Year Analyst (80) $172
  • 1st Year Analyst (257) $171
  • Intern/Summer Associate (41) $167
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (185) $91