Help me understand the new generations…

Grew up middle class with a couple siblings. We were okay for money but never completely in the clear. Dad worked in a very cyclical industry and had some bad years. We always knew when money was tight. Very thankful for everything my parents provided but anytime they would make a comment about money I felt so bad. My overall goal is to get off his payroll as soon as possible.

After I Interned this past summer I was pleasantly surprised. I absolutely loved my group and generally was excited to learn. A lot of great mentors who I am excited to learn from for the next couple years. Originally, I was only concerned about money but my focus has shifted. Meet some great mentors, help others who come from smaller schools like I did and maintain relationships with close friends/family. Hope this provides some perspective.

One thing that might be different with younger generations is our inherent distrust of corporations and large institutions. I’m 22-24 and some of my earlier memories are of the 08’ crisis.

While the last ten years have been relatively breezy with low rates, job switching has become more common culturally. Nobody wants to be a company man, and people are skeptical about the motives of the companies we work for.

One thing that accompanies this is the mindset that our current roles are always a stepping stone for whatever is next.

People want wealth, but don’t want to necessarily endure what your generation went through to accrue it. Some might say this is a lazy mindset, while others would argue that your generation failed to capture much of the value you provided to corporations in the early parts of your career.

Just look around you, how life changed in 20 years and how IB changed meanwhile. That basically sums up the answer. Why work in a toxic and rigid environment in IB with same values as 20 years ago, when you can go work for one of these fancy new companies/startups that are more adapted to the new world/culture. Then people of 30+ years ask why the new generation Z bitch around to work in the same old values. Bitching is because the olds are rigid and not open to change, hard to adapt to changes. Not even discriminating you, because that's how life is, we will be in your place in 20 years, asking why generations born during COVID bitch around.

Peace.

Back in the day if you wanted to make a lot of money out of undergrad you had to go to Wall Street and eat shit. And you got paid a lot more than any other alternative at 22 years old to eat shit. Now we eat shit and see our tech friends make very similar money and not eat shit. Naturally, we don’t want to eat shit if we don’t get paid a premium for it.

Inflation is devouring the pay edge. 20 years ago, 150k was real money. 150k could buy you fancy watches and luxurious suits.150k for college new grad was unheard of and people would drop their jaws hearing it. One in a thousand jobs paid 150k. It was an absolute badge of honor marking the top 1% elite.

Nowadays, 150k is poverty line. It could barely afford rent and food in HCOL areas. Average Joe on the street are getting 150k offer. Even trade support at Jane Street get 150k base first year. And they just do trade reconciliations working 8-5.

College kids are playing cards with decks of 250k offers and they throw away 300k offers just for remote work. The world has changed.

People have never changed. The new generation are still greedy, ambitious, and money-chasing like the older generations were. But new generations have more leverage and bargain, that’s all. 

As a now PE associate - i'll bite on why i went into banking and why i left

I went into banking to learn from the best, to progress my financial skills including modelling, cover clients, and understand corporate transactions. I kinda knew it would suck as far as work-life balance but I was ready to live with that in order to grow. I had a really smart, detail-oriented director who i worked with directly - was a bit of a dick sometimes and an almost robotic stickler for detail but i respected him immensely as a professional and learned a lot from him.

Why did I leave banking? My director moved to another city meaning he was replaced with somebody who despite being more pleasant to work with, meant I would not grow or develop as quickly (didn't care about the details, just getting deals done). I realised I wanted to be on the investors side and the skills I was building were capping out and it would be better for me to develop outside of banking. Whilst I was happy to have a bad work-life balance, I think i underestimated heading into it how hard directors and managing directors worked. My naive view heading in was that being an analyst - VP would be tough, but once you became a director / MD your life became much easier. I realised quickly that if anything they worked constantly, were constantly contactable, didn't properly take holidays, and heading at home at six didn't mean they weren't working. I do not want to work 70 hour weeks when I am a father and I am happy to sacrifice in my long-term career to be there for my future children, and as such I could not see myself as an MD.

Just my view - i'm still working a lot in PE and working hard but i'm hoping that it will be part of the path to that golden career where i can provide for a family and yet attend soccer practice.

Immigrated at 9 and grew up in pretty much the hood (south Asian). Lived in one bedroom and stilling living in one bedroom with parents while going to college nearby (non target) was able to make it this past summer and got my return. Personally being in the condition I am in where my parents barely make anything in a HCOL I don’t have the room to bitch, I just have to work hard until I make a name for myself. I don’t mind the endless hours of doing PowerPoints or bullshit work because I have experienced worst stuff in my life so, in a sense I appreciate high finance/banking. Although I don’t mind the hours I would be upset if I had to deal with disrespectful people in the industry which I have yet to deal with. From my

Experience this summer there were interns who complained about the hours than than got the return is is deciding to come back to complain more….and all those people grew up in a very privileged household so From their perspective this job isn’t a necessity for them to progress in life where for me it is so I am willing to take the shit at the early end of my career

Banking self-selects for people whose ambition exceeds their ability and analysts spend their days doing busy work. It’s a recipe for lots of complaining. 

I hear a lot of MDs say things like this. I have a lot of MDs at my firm that are always talking about "back when I was an analyst…". The reality is this - banking culture has not changed much. Analysts still get brutally worked to no end and the hierarchy is more concrete than ever. Yes, I am grateful for being able to make a great salary and the opportunity my parents gave me by raising 4 kids with middle class salaries in, let's be honest, virtually two serious economic breakdowns in less than 2 decades. That being said, working 80-100 hour work weeks months on end is not something to scoff at. There are only very particular people that can do that for an extended period and who believe that is worth the money.

I can't speak for others but, my knees and back bother me now, there are days that I probably only eat 500-800 calories (I'm 6ft, 170lb), weekends that I'm spending hours putting 70 page pitch decks together in which we end up using 10 pages of, etc., etc., etc. There is a lot of avoidable pain in this industry and I don't see anyone making an effort to lessen it. Just because you went through the pain we did doesn't make our pain any less. I am sure you complained and griped as well because most people would. Yes, you can say we're lucky for the opportunity, lucky to be able to provide, but that doesn't mean we can't complain. Everyone complains, that's just human nature.

I only joined this industry for the money and the ability to give myself the opportunity to be part of something more (whether a small startup, my own business, etc.). I don't have an interest in realigning PPT logos, turning models, and doing mindless industry research for an ungrateful shithead who has no respect for my time or frankly, his time either. This industry is an incredible stepping stone to many great things. Most times you have to go through pain to get to great things and that's a reality everyone in IB lives with. I am thankful for what this industry has given me, everyone involved in giving the opportunity to me but not quite as thankful for what the industry has done and will do to me. I can't exactly say it's been fun…

I'm 29 (millennial) and an As2, but going to bite here anywaysGrew up super middle class in the rust belt. Both of my parents had back office operational type roles at F500 companies and together made ~$100k per year.

They worked hard and me and my brothers never wanted for anything. A few small vacations a year (amusement parks, Florida type stuff). They also were pretty frugal and prioritized saving. They're your typical "millionaire next door type". Well off but not rich. I wanted to be rich.

Thriftiness and diligence were passed down to me. I have been working as much as possible and saving as much as possible ever since I was 14. One day when I was a teenager I stumbled across a compound interest calculator…typical financial advice tells most people stuff like "hey save $10k a year and you can retire when you're 60".

The concept of compounding hit me hard. I realized that sure, you can become a millionaire by saving a little bit each year over a long period of time….but I thought, what if I saved $100k/year? $200k/year? $300k/year?

After this epiphany I prioritized maximizing my personal FCF to investments. This is how I made every major decision in my life when I was young.

I lived at home and commuted to a state school for college

I worked Full Time through college in a back office job at a BB

All said and done I was able to graduate from UG at 22, no student loans and on top of that saved up $100k. With this alone I had already beat the game.

I wanted to keep the snowball rolling, so decided to pursue IB after graduation with the BB I was already at. IB was the perfect fit for me. With the skill set I have it would allow me (personally) to maximize my earnings at a young age. All other traditional high paying careers were not a fit for me and also not aligned with my skill set.

Anyways, it took a couple of years and I had to move to a new city and take a few different roles along the way, but I eventually slotted into a 1st year analyst spot in a product group when I was 25.

I've been with the group ~3.5 years now and have been top bucket every year. Current NW is just a smidge under $1mm. I like the group and plan to keep at it as long as I can. Now that I've built up a substantial net worth at a young age I've learned to be a little looser with the purse strings as well as compounding should do most of the work for me from here.

Exec Sum on why banking for me: I'm a pretty average middle class dude with a killer work ethic. Banking was my chance to get rich in my own relative terms. For me a life changing opportunity and I wouldn't change a thing, and I'm glad I've made the sacrifices that I have. I realize money doesn't motivate as many people as it used to, but it still motivates me. Even if I never invest a single dollar again I'm going to become a decamillionaire. There are no other paths that I am aware of or that were available to me that would allow me to do this.

My background is middle-class, public school my entire life, felt pretty lucky to break into IB and still feel grateful. 

There are good and bad things about the job. It's a thousand times easier than manual labor (I worked a few months in construction after graduating high-school, when I had no idea what to do with my life, and IB has nothing compared to roofing, breaking concrete, or digging out pipes in summer), most people are hard-working and noticeably sharper than average, and the pay/experience is much better than most other white-collar jobs. The real issues are the length of time (I work at least 80 hours a week, usually 90+, but I also know other groups at my bank that work far fewer with the same pay), bad attitudes (really boils down to a particularly crap associate who is hell to work with), and wasted work (particularly when turning comments for some of my associates, who are more likely to make mistakes and get caught up in the process of a 'perfect deck' rather than focusing on what our VPs and MDs actually care about). Overall, I'm okay with the work and am not rushing to leave the industry in general, though I am looking to optimize my bank/industry.

For me, working up to MD is not a dream job, because my MDs are at your age and older but are still putting dozens of hours of work in and getting screwed over by internal politics and clients. It's honestly really weird to me that some of them make 7 figures but live basically the same routine I do. Meanwhile, I see good companies either grow organically or get bought up by sponsors/strategics, and founders/execs pulling in big paydays and stock options so they can retire and answer to no one except the tax man.  Can I actually become the sort of lead guy on the buy-side or join/build the right company to benefit? Maybe, maybe not. Are there issues with these paths that I may be less aware of now? Certainly. But becoming an owner feels like the only real path to fortune and freedom. 

We're all here for the money. Some of us coincidentally happen to be a better fit than others and subsequently don't hate our lives. I happen to be one of the lucky ones who, in addition to primarily caring about where my next check comes from, actually does happen to enjoy the access to and interaction with smart, successful and/or minor league famous people. 

NGL, I get pretty psyched when I can show my friends I was on a conference call with THE Chief Accounting Officer of XYZ Public Company. Yes that makes me a prestige whore, but don't slut shame, you know you like it too. 

it may be partially because of the ease of wealth creation we can see some people attain these days. social media wasn't 'a thing' 20 years ago, but seeing people your own age become multi millionaires doing 'fun' things on YouTube/tiktok/instagram without the 100hr workweek slog may have an affect on peoples perceptions. just a thought

I grew up essentially poor, my mum raising me on GBP 19k a year. To this day I still have anxiety about money. I interned in a BB first because I knew they paid the most and I could learn to like the job, I met a great MD and Associate, who taught me everything I know, how to be a good analyst and manage my responsibilities, how to plan my time, how to enjoy myself and not to feel less then, so now my motivations are to be a good mentor because my mother doesn't need to worry about anything and give advice to people with my background who want to do more. 

I think my perspective is slightly different to my peers who grew better off, because I'm happy with my job and dont feel like i need to look for the next thing or think about what my stepping stone is. 

Recently joined an HF so no longer a banker but I want to chime in

Echoing what others have said on this thread, the younger generations don't have faith in companies and we are very skeptical of their motives.  I don't really see value in being a loyal corporate guy when I know I'm replaceable and will be cast aside very quickly. 

Unlike others on this thread though, I actually grew up in a very privileged position.  Very nice house in a safe suburb with great public schools.  Had an stress-free childhood with little ambition or hunger because I never really saw my parents so I had freedom to go to my/friends' pool and home theater.  Consequently, I was very complacent in my younger years and when the best school I could get into was a non-target, life hit me like a brick wall.  Suddenly, I couldn't be on cruise control with life.  

Worked extremely hard from the non-target and eventually made it to an MM then BB.  Worked even harder at BB to be top bucket analyst.  Since then, I've always had a fear of becoming complacent and drove my hunger to do the best.  

Just like IB hasn't changed significantly, the ambition of junior bankers won't change.  There will always be people born/get into undesirable conditions who rather than give-up, work even harder.  

Congratulations on your successful career. I admire your work ethic and willingness to finance the future of your children. 

I had always been interested in STEM stuff though high school and enrolled in an engineering university, but the summer before attending I was hired for an internship in investing at the company I currently work for. I had gone to a private school whose attendants were decidedly middle-class, and nearly all work internships before going to college after graduation doing things as varied as construction to tax preparation to music creation to even investment banking.

It seemed for me to be able to pursue the career I wanted that starting and working in investment banking was simply put, a necessity. The idea of putting in the time to do the work was never trouble or anything I shied away from. It was just another challenge. Just as completing university with three majors and an honors thesis was a challenge. Just as working 18 hours / week in through school was a challenge. I came up with offers for two MM / EB shops for the summers after my sophomore and junior year. I eventually changed to my current company after these internships. 

The one thing I have to mention about the people I worked with is that I found those I worked with in 2019 and 2020 to be especially different. I can't put my finger on on why, but I discussed on another post. I believe to an extent "right person" for the analyst role changed over the pandemic. The person who could sit in their parents basement for 20 hours / day and crank out slides and update models is different from the kind who will be trained to close deals in the future. Hiring became depersonalized and to a smaller extent cultures changed meaning that new classes look a quite a bit different in their overall makeup from old classes. What brought those people was the allure of a successful career path and exit opportunities galore. Not just about making money today, but a gateway to making lots of money tomorrow. Among those I worked closely with, few if any plan on long term careers in investment banking or even at a company. They may even want to learn the skills. But all want to avoid corporate nonsense. 

My comment from before

I have worked in IB for a few years now and have noticed several things, many of which have already been mentioned in this thread.

1. Young people have become increasingly distrustful and negative on large corporations. There have been clear trends that indicate stagnant pay despite rising profits and cost of living broadly. Even with the base raises in 2021 I still consider analysts to be underpaid relative to total comp figures from the early 2000s purely because the work is the same. Also banks being extremely stingy on things like seamless allowances, Ubers, wfh stipends, and bonuses do not help at all. These things matter a great deal to young employees.

2. Banking can still be a great crash course education on how companies work or to get a 2 year primer on a particular industry.

3. Banking is still way behind culturally compared to other industries. Despite hollow wfh initiatives, my experience has been that these policies are rarely enforced or respected. Still have a lot of boomer MDs mandating 5 days a week in office. Completely unnecessary imo. Also the willingness to blow up weekends and holidays at the drop of a hot a on meaningless shit will never cease to amaze me. We do so much stupid shit that doesn’t add any value or generate business it’s wild.

Banking for me just isn’t it man. I look at all the seniors in my group and they are all extremely insecure guys deep down who are trying to compensate for something. The money is good but it aint what it was, and not at all worth what you have to sacrifice in my view.

In a world of side hustles, IG models, influencers and streamers, the attractiveness of working 90 hours a week, for $90K in after-tax income, isn't what it used to be. 

Some great thoughts above, key ones I think that matter as to why people aren't as enthused about the IB track as prior gens (in rough order of importance):

1. Alternatives. Namely tech. Why work 170k all-in for 70-90hrs a week for yrs when you can do 120k all-in in a non-coding role (with equity) at a FAANG for 35hrs a week?

2. Prior gens struggled much harder because they came from a place of greater struggle vs high relative comfort we have these days. Next gens become weaker and weaker over time in their tenacity / grit / willingness to suffer (As founder of 4 seasons said, excellence is the capacity to take pain). There is a lot of truth to saying that 'hard times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, weak men make hard times.' What's happening now isn't unique in history but we're pretty much in the 4th stages of this cycle in the dev world 

3. Social Media. Influencer / creator has been de-facto opportunity that most crave these days. Easy come easy go mentality

4. Corps not as paternalistic today as they used to be in mid-late 20th century. Tech is likely the biggest culprit in causing pace of disruption to accelerate so companies can't afford to be paternalistic (and even if they good that won't lead to as high ROICs)

Labor economics 101, the first thing you learn: labor/leisure trade off. I'm 48, have had 15+ jobs in my life (starting at 15…but always fun jobs), my great grandfather worked in a coal mine at age 5. He saw the invention of the "weekend". That terns to drift towards "leisure" as capital builds up in a society. Also, every generation I know going back 3 and forwards 1 in my family…makes choices that serve no purpose than showing the next generation we can make our own choices. See: music, food, etc.

my first job out of college in 2010 was public accounting. It became very clear to me that the path to partner was attractive but hard work, and if i was willing to work that hard for 12-14 years then i might as well work that hard in IB/PE and be wealthier. it is a similar trade for the youth of today, except the alternatives require less of a grind, better cultures for comparable compensation. 

Desk analyst on a high yield trading desk at a BB in London (close to the big 40). Pre-GFC traders on my desk made 4-5m a year and a good desk analyst made 1m. Today, my desk head makes 1-1.5m (most of that deferred over 3 years in stock) and a good desk analyst makes 350-400k. Factor in the complete detachment between house prices and incomes (went from 4x pre-GFC in London to 10x today) and what you are seeing is a weeding out of those who only joined this business because they saw Gordon Gekko flying around in a private jet or watched Margin Call. I happen to like what I do and enjoy the work so I don't mind but the days of VPs buying pads in Chelsea/Kensington/Sloan Square are long gone....now it's live outside the capital in a commuter town so you can afford a garden and private school fees for 2 kids.   

Echoing what is said above, but through a different lense:

1. They say in the service industry, if you get bad service you tell 5 people, but if you get good service you only tell 1. Same probably here, you hear more from the disgruntled people than from the people who are happy in the job.

2. I think there is more to do outside of work. In prior years, decades ago, work was the thing you did outside of being with you family, people really didn't have hobbies or interests particularly. Now, more people ever are probably working to live/fund hobbies than at any other time. 

3. I also think if has to do with the way people live now; meaning, we are always use to more and more, moving up and never moving down. I always give the example of bathrooms, my grandparents raised my mom and uncle in a 1 bathroom house, my parents raised my brother and I in a 1.5 bathroom house and my brother house with his wife and 2 kids has 3 bathrooms. If you total people today they had to live in a one bathroom house with a family of four they would think they were poor. So people in yester-years of banking, everything was always moving up for them, where as now, people taking banking roles are realizing the value of a dollar, but don't want to move to a lower level of living. If you look at the responses above, most people thriving seem to be coming from a middle class household. 

New generations are spoiled by tech. Spoiled. If  tech keeps the spoiling going on, no one would get off bed at 9am.

What’s even worse ? HFT is joining the spoil party. When big tech offers frosting cakes to spoil the new generations, HFT offers diamond cakes with Gold frosting to please the mighty millennium lord. The spoil party is going out of control.

It’s time for ibanking to join the spoil party before it’s too late ! Spoil millennials with good wlb and golden paychecks ! That’s the only way for ibanking to keep its little crown in job market.