Is this happening at other banks, too?
A group that I have come to know well has had 75% of its 2nd-year analysts leave within the past 12 months. This is a coverage group that's top-of-the-league tables. I can only imagine the hell that the rest of the 2nd year analysts and the 1st year analysts (who started FT in the age of COVID) must be going through. Is anyone else seeing something similar happening across other banks/groups?
I would say it’s fairly common, but ironically we’re seeing it more on the level of associate and vp. I think a lot of these individuals are realizing the career banking path has now gotten substantially more difficult since the line between work and home is completely gone (yes, completely gone, not “blurred” as many of these firms claim)
is the turnover rate so high? 75% seems crazy to me. Agree on the point that the line has disappeared and that the career banking path has become much harder to sustain. Just wondering, is this likely to go back to normal once COVID-19 isn't forcing us to be WFH? Or is there a chance that MDs realize that pitching through zoom can drive more revenue and thus the hours go back down once we are in office but not as much as it was pre-covid?
Where do they go next after they leave the banking job? Corp dev?
Lots of options at the ASO-level. CorpDev/Strat, CorpFin, Corp/Commercial Banking. I've even seen one post-MBA associate exit into a BizOps type role at a FAANG.
yeah I think this is common esp in covid times cause lateraling/exiting is so easy - u can make calls at ur home to talk to prospective employers and no one would noticed that u disappeared vs. in the office its pretty tough to manage work on top of the above. may I ask what bank/group this is?
Honestly 2nd year analysts dropping like flies is pretty common, even in non-COVID times. Many 2nd years who recruit on-cycle may opt to end 2nd year early to get a small vacation before the PE grind. Also a lot of off-cycle starts in Q1/Q2 for Associate starts on the buy-side as well, which on paper is great given it's a small acceleration into the buy-side without having to do 2 full years. Not to mention most lateral IB opportunities (upgrading in prestige) are generally only open to "experienced" analysts as well (min. 1 year)
What's unique this year due to COVID is the drop out rate of first years
OP here... surprisingly, not a single one of the first-year analysts in the group I mentioned has jumped shop lol.
That's the smart thing to do. You're not hire-able with under a year of IB experience coming out of undergrad (for the more prestigious buy-side opps and sell-side laterals, that is; if you want to do F500 FP&A, I'm sure under a year is fine). If you're quitting after 6 months, the IB on resume does nothing for you IMO, at that point you might as well not have worked there. I think it means less if it's not your first job out of school, for example, if you did 1.5 years in management consulting, made a career pivot and did 6 months in IB, to then walk to do something else, I'm sure that's fine
Also one thing I want to mention is that recruiting during COVID has never been easier, so this influence will trickle down first for the more well-qualified (re: 2nd years). During regular working season, impossible to prep in the office obviously, and mentally difficult to prep after work on the weekday. Hard to spend time prepping on the weekends as well if you have any free time...and then the stress of having to "be sick" and not show up a few days due to interviews...
Now you have as much time to prepare as you want (can do it during the work day from freedom of your desk) and take interviews whenever you want. The difference is enormous
At the end of the day what I'm trying to say is that it's not due to the stress of WFH. The first years have it the worst WFH, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise
Well over half of our 2nd years have left, top-tier group at a BB. Traditionally 2nd years would stay until the typical summer exit.
Yeah, I figured they would stay till summer but thanks for letting me know that it happens in your group as well.
Some friends at various BBs in top tier groups all told me multiple analysts have left during the last months, with a couple also being on the edge of being burned out. It appears that in industries such as tech, people are in overdrive... I wonder how long they can keep up this pace.
-- Edit: these were first and second year analysts --
WFH as a banker is freaking awesome. So much more flexibility with my personal life now
I am wfh and I barely have time to leave my apartment (srs). it sucks dick
i dont even have time to eat meals
phuck this gay world
Just gotta know where those pockets of downtime are and what the team’s expectations are for timelines. I manage to get several hours of call of duty in or a nice power nap
I think the difference of opinion is between people who started WFH and people who spent months in the office. If you already know what you’re doing the positives heavily outweigh the negatives.
Also probably some “grass is greener” syndrome from people who have only seen one side full-time. Printing and binding shit at 3am, then commuting home, then waking up early in case you need to switch out a busted page is fucking horrible. WFH you’re sending a PDF, going to bed, and if any changes are needed you can roll out of bed and do them in your pajamas. Having downtime at the office where you sit on your ass from 6pm to 9pm waiting on seniors to get home, have dinner, spend half an hour with their kid and THEN give comments is fucking horrible. How many times can you read the WSJ? At home you’re chilling in a t-shirt and watching TV.
Being able to take a short break to browse the internet or do whatever with no judgment is great. Not having face time is great.
While I see your point, in my case its become a massive tradeoff. Sure, I get to sleep 1-2 hours more a day, which is great, but my bank also expects me to be glued to my screen. Its really frustrating to not be able to mentally check out once you leave the building. Sure, you know there will be shit to fix tomorrow morning, but tonight all that matters is getting home, showering and going to sleep.
WFH I have this feeling (albeit thanks to my lovely higher ups) that my day is never over. Something is fucked really late at night? I am expected to get it done ASAP as my screen is a few feet away from my bed. That builds up to this feeling that I am being held hostage in a room doing some sweatshop job with no break in sight.
Spot on. If your sweatshop has gotten so sweaty solely b/c of WFH that you'd rather waste your life in the office than at home, your bank is managing the situation like shit. There are going to be situations that take longer b/c of WFH but I'll take them all day if I get to wake up 5 min before my first call and shower at noon if I feel like it. Before WFH I didn't know what my apt neighborhood looked like in the daytime.
Completely agree with the above commenter. WFH has made banking so much better. No more time having to commute and no more sitting on my ass doing nothing while waiting. Now I can take naps, watch TV, play games, browse the internet, go to the beach etc. whenever I want.
Goldman TMT
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Couldn’t this be great news for new analysts though? Potential fast tracked promotions (loyalty + cover gaps) and greater bonuses (since you’re working like a slave?
Genuinely curious since I’m starting in July.
Couldn’t this be great news for new analysts though? Potential fast tracked promotions (loyalty + cover the gaps opened up by those exiting) and greater bonuses (since you’re working like a slave?
Genuinely curious since I’m starting in July.
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