Recruitment is a joke.
Recruitment, especially from a non-target perspective, is a joke. I’m confused to why no one seriously questions the process at the undergraduate level.
I’m an incoming summer analyst, and I’m happy with where I’ve landed. Going through the process made me step back and realize how absurd recruitment is for kids at non-targets who get sold something that isn’t necessarily the truth.
At non-targets, the top few who are smart and driven, are in a knife fight just to get into their school’s investment banking club. These clubs are treated like the gates to heaven. You get in, you network, you cold email, you memorize guides, you put in the work, great. But once this process has begun, to question it is to quit.
From the outside, IB is painted as this indescribably prestigious, high-status, high-income path. For a lot of us with no family in the industry, no close friends already working in it, the mystery makes it even more attractive. It’s the career you’re told you shouldn’t even think about unless you have the belief you can compete and beat out more competitive students at better schools, and that only fuels the obsession.
The problem is, whether anyone would like to admit it, the obsession leaves no space for honest reflection. No one wants to ask if this industry is even remotely fulfilling, because by the time you’re in, you’re in too deep, networking daily, tracking down referrals, grinding interviews. Can you ask questions about general fulfillment on a networking call, sure, but very obviously you’re not going to get a legitimate answer from someone in the industry. They’re not going to shit on their own job they worked tirelessly to get, and thus the cycle continues.
Capable, high-achieving kids from non-targets chase a role that they’ve only seen through a marketing lens. They hear the standard disclaimers of long hours etc., but those warnings are brushed off rather than genuinely thought through. How could they?At this level, you can’t flinch. If you do, maybe you don’t want it enough. Maybe you’re not made for this role in the first place.
The whole process becomes less about matching your values with a career, and more about proving you can survive it. A game of who can compete, just because someone said it’s the highest level to achieve. Worse, if you’re at a non-target, the desperation is six fold. You’re already told you’re behind. You’re told to never look back, if you do you’re fucked.
I’m not saying investment banking is inherently bad. I’m also not saying anything that isn’t already known. The recruitment process, by nature, cannot be questioned by undergrads unless they want to risk the opportunity they are told it is.
You’ve hit on a sentiment that resonates with many, especially those navigating the non-target recruiting grind. Based on the most helpful WSO content, here’s the reality:
The Non-Target Grind: Non-target students often face a steeper climb, as you've described. The process is grueling—networking, cold emailing, and fighting for limited spots in finance clubs. These clubs often act as gatekeepers, and the competition can feel like a "knife fight." However, this intensity is not unique to non-targets; even at targets, students face immense pressure to stand out among their peers.
The Obsession and Prestige: The allure of investment banking is often amplified by its mystique and perceived prestige. For those without industry connections, the path can feel like a golden ticket to success. But as you pointed out, this obsession can overshadow critical self-reflection. Many students chase the role without fully understanding whether it aligns with their personal values or long-term goals.
The Lack of Honest Reflection: The recruitment process leaves little room for questioning. Once you're in the grind—networking, prepping for interviews, and chasing referrals—there's no time to pause and ask if this is truly fulfilling. The fear of being seen as "not wanting it enough" or "not cut out for it" keeps many from stepping back.
The Cycle of Perception: The industry’s marketing lens perpetuates the cycle. Warnings about long hours and burnout are often dismissed because the focus is on proving oneself. For non-target students, the pressure is magnified by the narrative that they’re already behind and must work twice as hard to catch up.
Breaking the Cycle: While the system may seem rigid, there are ways to approach it differently. Networking doesn’t have to be purely transactional—genuine conversations with alumni or professionals can provide insights beyond the surface. Additionally, reflecting on your own goals and values early in the process can help you determine if IB is truly the right fit, rather than just the "highest level to achieve."
Ultimately, the recruitment process is a test of resilience, but it’s also an opportunity to learn about yourself and the industry. The key is to balance ambition with self-awareness, ensuring that the path you’re pursuing aligns with your personal and professional aspirations.
Sources: Is investment banking not as prestigious as most people think? Are kids that break in sub-par?, Is investment banking not as prestigious as most people think? Are kids that break in sub-par?, Systemic Oppression of Non-Target Students, The Case for Choosing a Non-Target, Networking 101 – 8 tips from a “non-target” school student
Winners win
This is so true. My view is that hardo nontargets in these investment clubs are filling their own insecurities with a logo and the “prestige”.
Agreed. My non-targets IB club is a bunch of hardos who chase prestige in clubs rather than actual experience
If you think a non-target IB club is a knife fight - then what happens at Wharton and NYU?
hunger games (at least at stern)
This only proves my point further. I can only imagine the shitshow it is to compete at that level, not to mention getting all the way to a top bank super day.
Yep. The fight there is to even get in. Once you get into Wharton, its actually easy going compared to non-targets. Which is stupidmin itself, based on how college admissions work, but thats another topic.
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Did #2 as a stern kid
I doubt you can place anywhere with a 3.3 gpa
The biggest difference is that Wharton kids are fighting to go from Moelis M&A to Moelis RX while nontargets are fighting to go from big 4 to Lincoln International
Same shit, different bank
There’s so much wlb info out there how can people not know what they’re going into
The issue doesn’t originate with how much accessible information there is online, as you said there is an abundance of it. The problem is the amount of hype, prestige, money, whatever it is that genuinely drives these talented students, easily overruns any source of info that shows the red flags or points of reflection that must be made before committing to it. My point is that many students can easily overlook what they’re really getting into, especially when it’s as shiny as IB is perceived.
Sounds like this is the kids' issue then. Don't blame bars for getting a DUI or getting fired or your divorce: there was plenty of information online as to the positives and negatives of drinking, but you—assuming you are capable of weighing risks/rewards, which "talented students" "who are smart and driven," presumably are—made the choice to drink for some perceived benefit, and now have to face some negatives. Same with the "hype, prestige, money, whatever": if I go to the casino and put all my money on red, losing it all, it is not the casino's fault for trying to sell me a product by hyping up gambling, having attractive women there, and for telling me I could win big, nor is it society's fault for making me value wealth.
Assuming there is abundant information and no force or coercion, it is up to you to make an informed choice and only you, so any mistake is wholly your own, not indicative of some moral failing in the counterparty to your bad decision.
Man just put the fries in the bag.
you're blind to see why you want to get into finance, but if you dig into yourself, you'll realize you're attract for the same reason as others and those reasons are hard to justify among undergraduates
the peak of finance was the entrepreneurial finance we've seen across history: the 80s, junk bonds, merchants of debt aka KKR investing the LBO, lots of financial inovations like derivatives leading to the 2008 crisis, etc. now is all exhausted, plenty of PhD exhausted every theory that is there to be explored and almost the entirety of the quant industry combined any sort of math formulas to exhaust the inovation of any financial instrument possible, to the point that any new instrument that is "created" is just a combination of past instruments where basically it's just the combination of both instruments instead of a single innovation.
There is nothing left. This field matured, so it became basically a job (and not an exciting one) which makes it extremely narrow minded your view about this field being somehow the pinnacle that one can achieve.
True, your next HR/CorpDev department might be impressed about your IB stint at MS or JPM, but down the line, do you live to impress others so you can get yor next gig, or do you want to do something interesting and entrepreneurial instead of simply proving yourself to the external world, made by almost mediocre people, so you're marketable? I am also aware that as a 20yo you need to rpove yourself, so you might not be able to choose, but still, food for thought...
Restless spitting facts as usual
I was a non-target went to an EB. Used to think damn that sucked - all the emailing, networking, ass-kissing, having to basically act like a used car salesman doing cold calls just to get a look, explaining to people why I'm not at a better school, what my value add would be over someone from XYZ, etc. Yeah it's a different struggle but you win on being resourceful, likeable, persistent. Once you are in there the baseline expectation of you is lower and that's actually to your benefit. Some people might take that offensively but for me it was fucking great. Anyone who's been through it will know the benefit of under-promise / over-deliver. Banking also doesn't require you be a genius to be a rockstar. If you're consistent, good attitude, always responsive, deliver clean high quality work product, isn't retarded when answering a model / analysis related question on a client call, you're a rockstar.
When I heard what my co-workers from target schools had to do to beat out 200 other extremely qualified people to be a contender for the 4-5 spots that's allotted to their school, esp. if it's one of the undergrad business schools. Holy shit man. Now that's a knife-fight. Your "hardo" investment banking club is their entire class.
Also at 22 who the fuck cares about fulfilment and career / soul alignment lol. You're here for the experience, and you're paid enough to do really stupid things in a major city. You make good friends from mutual suffering, your resume gets a fat credibility stamp, and off you go. 30 yrs down the road your network from your banking class / PE class / MBA is going to be OP, ideally you've made it yourself enough to still belong in that network. And your kids are now "target" and can pursue their "passion" and become a hipster communist probably protesting dumb shit at Columbia. And then you're probably thinking you should have sent them to a state school where people have real world problems.
I don't get the non target chip. If I had to do it again I'd go non-target again TBH. That cut throat target school life sounded so stressful. I actually had fun in college lol.
Honestly I like this take a lot. I’m in a very similar place and in no way am I complaining, just wanted to point out I think some of my peers are straight up lost. I cannot wait to hit school this fall and as a normal large state school student, get absolutely shitfaced every weekend until next summer starts and I hit the ground running. Cheers
Hell yeah brother. Have fun and don't burden yourself with overthinking. It gets more stressful not less so enjoy being carefree while you can man.
You have to take control of your own life and be 100% responsible for your decisions. Being too busy to think and reflect and getting stuck 10 years in a career you don’t like is all on you. The earlier you realize this and make your life yours, the better
Banking sucks and requires a certain personality but tbh the recruiting process does a pretty good job at getting the right people in. The job is such a drag and so much work and shit taking, having the recruiting be similar is a pretty good filter of the kinds of people that will be good at the job.
Unfortunately not everyone who is deserving gets a slot, but that’s life, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get unlucky. Only thing to do is keep working hard and cross your fingers.
Edit: also similar to pledging a fraternity, generally having a shitty and annoying recruitment process weeds out the people that don’t want it bad enough / are bums, just helps to keep out people who won’t care as much about it. There too many people that say they want it but aren’t actually cut out for it.
Recruiting is very hard to do right. Whether you are trying to pre-select the best or trying to sift through way more people than you can handle, either case is imperfect, but having the some sort weeder process helps a ton.
Recruitment starts way too early for banks. I think that's the biggest problem
Doesn't give people a chance to think about whether it's something they really want to do
The early recruiting definitely creates a feeling that you need to hop on the train before it leaves the station, without you getting time to check to make sure its the right train.
I genuinely believe that the recruiting process for major banks is intentionally designed to be a difficult and exhausting experience for candidates. While it may have been even more grueling during the golden era of Wall Street, it remains a tough and stressful process today. The underlying message seems clear: candidates are expected to endure high levels of pressure, and the ability to handle criticism and challenging environments is considered a key qualification for the job.
True story related to this. I know a current high school senior choosing between Rutgers and Albany. He wants to work on Wall St. He finds Albany to be a better subjective fit for him . . comfort, feel, etc. Feels at home there. Rutgers he finds chaotic and uncomfortable, like a factory almost.
I asked him what's left to decide then? He should go where he has the best shot to thrive, right?
He said "but Rutgers is way more prestigious and can hook me up with better jobs on Wall St, so that makes it hard." His mom literally said "at Rutgers the recruiters are lined up outside ready to snatch these kids up, it could be risky to turn that down for a better fit."
This is the desperate delusion people are sold. Every school with even the tiniest shred of prestige has sold parents the hopium that if you send your kid to our school, you're giving him a leg up on life. And the families, with no other options, force themselves to believe it. Everyone needs to think that the best school they could get into is the winner's circle somehow. It's insane.
Advice for anyone attending a non-target: accept the bad news first. You lost that round. You're at a disadvantage. Don't try to convince yourself otherwise. Now the good news: its still mostly about the individual. You can be an outlier because (as my story shows) many of your classmates are clinging to the hopium instead of busting their ass to get ahead. If you truly bust your ass, you'll be one of a few doing it and you have a shot.
Going to have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. Turning down a school with a higher quality of education and better job opportunities based on “fit” is insane to me (assuming both cost the same). You are not paying 40+ thousand a year for a social club. It is for education and job access. End of story. This narrative that you should choose a school based on social fit is crazy to me quite honestly, especially when there is a drastic difference in quality. Additionally, if you are a well adjusted individual you will have a fine time wherever you go to school, speaking from personal experience.
Apologies if I wasn’t clear, but the punchline was that families will convince themselves Rutgers is a ticket to Wall St.
Winners win. Losers cry.
Real original buddy
This nails it. The recruitment process isn’t about helping students find the right fit, it’s a filter for conformity and grit. Especially from a non-target, the path isn’t structured to let you stop and ask, “Is this worth it?” It’s structured to see who can ignore the doubts and keep grinding. That’s not alignment, that’s conditioning
Can we just keep this as a sticky or something?
The non-targets need to know that the chips are stacked against them.
Sharing my experience -> now working in a bank with 5+ years of exp, lateraled in after some years of experience as a non-target, thought I lost out against many exceptional candidates, but it's indeed mind boggling how many of the kids that we/other BBs hire that are client kids or nepo babies. I would argue ~50%
Firms don’t invest in recruiting 22yo excel monkeys the same way they do actual profit generators. It’s just a math problem for maximizing dollars with the least risk possible.
The real joke is how we’ve decided as a culture that 18-22yo kids all need to become college NPCs and go into six figures of debt to get the same paper and compete for the same limited jobs.
Git gud kid
So you haven't actually started working and are already bitching? Dude, there's plenty of things to complain about, but you haven't even done the internship yet, let alone worked a full time job.
Recruiting is ridiculous because it is (i) competitive and (ii) HR are retarded. That's about as deep as that goes.
Front office roles are jobs like any other job, they just offer higher compensation as well as more responsibility earlier on (hence the longer hours) in your career than you would otherwise be able to take on.
Don't get too big for your britches. All you've done so far is secure a competitive internship. You're not an investment banker, you dont even have a full time offer (yet, hopefully). Congratulations on what you've done so far, but understand that you're not Patrick Bateman/Gordon Gekko/whatever pop cultural references point you've picked. Focus on enjoying college, having a good time, and making friends. Then, when you get to the street for your summer, once again, focus on learning, having a good time, and making friends. It's that simple.
Is this supposed to be rage bait? I’m not complaining, and actually observed all this in my peers, not myself. Get back to work or go to bed man.
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