What are the backgrounds of MBA students who get top IBD Associate offers?
However you want to describe the "top" firms -- GS, MS, JPM, EVR, Moelis, Centerview, etc.
Is it primarily people who had prior banking/consulting, Big 4, or other solid finance/business experience? Would someone with a non profit type background be competitive for top roles?
I guess what I'm asking is what are the top banks looking for? Is it similar to consulting in that it's about who prepped and networked the most, where your resume doesn't matter as much?
All over the map. Anything from consulting, finance, sales, to ex-military. Most important factors seem to be your school and ability to network/interview.
Just from LinkedIn searches and that sort of thing, I see a lot of MBA associates who had military or for profit roles like the ones you describe (only one missing would be engineers/programmers). Were there people from backgrounds even less traditional than that? Government/Capitol Hill staffers, TFA, or other similar non profit types?
My hunch (hope?) was that once you get to b school you're a clean slate as far as the really structured recruiting processes go, and it just comes down to, as you said, your ability to network and interview, and that your prior background can help you score points or help with group placement and the like but not much beyond that. Is that broadly accurate for IBD recruiting overall? Is pre MBA background scrutinized more for top banks/groups?
It’s not a complete clean slate. Pre-MBA matters some.
E.g., if i’m in the consumer group, I will lean towards consultants or operational professionals who know the space well. Then I can pound the table for these as the top candidates for the consumer group. But if you have a good story, show that you’re smart or have cool experience, that can get you in the door too.
The big issue with people from non-traditional backgrounds is that those who don’t show well, dont have a lot of transferable experience, or that they don’t really see the big picture so end up looking weaker than others (who also are coming with no banking experience). If they can demonstrate that they understand the business side of what they’re doing, that will take away a lot of these concerns.
An example, you mentioned TFA. As a teacher, you aren’t really that interesting, but if you can try to spin the experience into how the organization is funded, how it grows, anything strategic, that makes you a lot more interesting for an IB role.
In my class, around 25 people got ib offers and less than 5 had no experience in finance before. However, one could argue that this happened because non finance people usually were interested in consulting rather than banking in my school.
In general, banks would put ex bankers as a first priority. After that, they definetely accept career switchers but to your question, you won't be a competitive candidate coming from non profit unless you have a good personality/attitude. If I were you, I would definetely go for it but good to have a plan B.
Competitive candidate for banking overall or competitive candidate for top tier banks/groups? Is it just that people from non profit/other non-traditional and non-businessy backgrounds are just considered "soft" or maybe not as apt as for profit types? Or does pre MBA experience really that scrutinized?
Can I also ask which program you attended? My impression from reading tons of threads and other posts about MBA associate recruiting was that most people who seek it out at top programs tend to get a solid offer (BB or EB), with the stragglers typically having anomalous social/personality issues or non citizens with visa issues.
(FWIW, I did attend a lower Ivy/"target" UG)
"Competitive candidate for banking overall or competitive candidate for top tier banks/groups?"
Ceteris paribus, competitive candidate for top tier banks/groups. If you have the right attitude/character traits (to know about that, ask yourself, if I put you in front of a client, will the client love you?), you can be a top choice for all the banks. If not, but you do work hard on your stories, on your mock interviews and on your technicals, you will be shortlisted in some of the banks.
I say ceteris paribus, because you should bear in mind that the composition of your class matters as well. If in your class, you have strong candidates interested in IB, recruiting will be harder because usually the number of offers has little fluctuation from year to year.
"Is it just that people from non profit/other non-traditional and non-businessy backgrounds are just considered "soft" or maybe not as apt as for profit types?"
MBA recruiting is open to career switchers so you aren't considered soft per se with non-business background. The interviewers will know that and won't grill you on technicals.
"Can I also ask which program you attended?"
My school offers a top 10 program.
"My impression from reading tons of threads and other posts about MBA associate recruiting was that most people who seek it out at top programs tend to get a solid offer"
From my experience, an offer isn't easy for anyone except probably for people with prior deal experience.I have seen people with very strong finance backgrounds that didn't get any interviews. I have seen people that had interviews with more than 5 banks and didn't get any offer.
Maybe it is easy in M7 schools. Though bear in mind that in M7 schools, the supply of candidates is different. The competition is much stronger and probably the ratio of number of offers/number of candidates is much smaller.
To answer your main concern, you have a chance and if you work hard, you can get the offer but have humility and don't start business school with the attitude that you will get it.
Undergrad brand (even if you’re at an M7) has a lot more to do with it than people will admit or might consciously realize. Firms that came off especially elitist during the process were MS, Evercore, PJT, and Centerview.
I did attend a target UG (lower Ivy). Does that really carry that much weight? Enough to overcome what the poster above you mentioned about non profit type backgrounds being at that much of a disadvantage?
Also, how were they elitist during the process? Do you mean they primarily tended to just advance top UG alumni through the process?
Yeah Im in the same boat. Sure there probably are some people who have strong undergrads, but Im sure once you leave M7 Undergrad experience is highly variable.
Disagree with this somewhat. There might be a correlation but I doubt there's causation. People went to top undergrads are perhaps more refined/well-spoken and translates to more offer. But this doesn't mean that the same well-spoken and refined person who went to non-target would have less of a chance to land a top offer. Hope this makes sense.
But there's some truth it. I don't think it's bank specific but it could be recruiting team specific.
A few banks (MS/GS/EVR/MOE) ask for it in the formal application, some required some not, but by this time you're either in their process or your not. Other banks actually have the school team's at the bank reach out to get candidates' first semester/term grades (along with GMAT). This request can be used to form a closed interview list or as a way to trim the herd.
The people who do the best have recognizable brands on their resume - doesn't have to be finance.
I.e. software engineer from F100 tech company -> GS TMT
elite boutique recruiting this year seems to be very focused on women
Big 4 TAS is definitely a strong IB background.
You thought wrong.
MS is the only BB that hires generalist associates.
Boutiques hire generalists bc they usually have all the associates in a big "M&A" group. (Evercore, Moelis, PJT, Greenhill). Lazard hires for specific groups.
Pre-MBA experience doesn't seem to matter too much, but it could help with group / industry placement.
I will say that if you're recruiting for top Rx groups (PJT, EVR, Lazard, HL), then having a finance or law background definitely helps, given the limited number of seats. It seems as though a higher proportion of Rx associates at these shops have pre-MBA finance experience, although it's definitely not a requirement.
Myself as a data point...top 10 undergrad, engineer, brand name corporate experience in an engineering/R&D role, M7, now at an EB in a group related to my prior corporate experience.
What were the backgrounds of other people without traditional business/military experience in your M7 class that successfully landed solid IBD offers? What were the profiles of people who struck out?
Basically been covered already in this thread, but kind of all over the map. It’s a bit self selecting in that non-profit people aren’t generally going after IB, but al kinds of backgrounds overall. Those who struck out seemed to be the ones who weren’t fully committed to banking anyways, or internationals with some language issues or tendencies that don’t jive well with American culture.
The people who strike out are those who limit themselves too early (i.e cut banks) or target a super specialized group type that has a separate recruiting process (FIG, RE).
I went to CBS, on offer day I would say about 75% of ~100 people had at least one offer, the remaining 25% generally are able to find something because they can be waitlisted or reach out to banks that aren't as popular. I only know of a few who didn't get any offers and to be honest, they were all either in the GS/MS/MBB bucket (ie they weren't really committed) or they targeted RE IB where there are very very few available spots.
What KILLS people is that Goldman interviews like 60 people, but gives super days to like...15? Everyone gets so hyped on GS and doesn't prep for the BoAs and BarCaps nearly as well. All that said, if you go to a "core-four" finance school (Wharton, Booth, CBS, Stern), have a good story, really give it your all (ie don't try to also recruit for Mck), and don't turn up your nose at the PJ Solomons of the world (students who take part in targeted recruiting - veteran, female, diversity, etc - fall victim to this every year) , you have a very good shot at landing somewhere,
This year was bad - the interviews were the worst I've ever seen, and I chalk that up to being remote. You could tell that some kids weren't taking it nearly as seriously as when we recruited in person. Normally however, there is a process and if you follow the 2nd years' direction, you will be able to land somewhere
Why are there so few spots for RE IB? What type of backgrounds do those have that land RE IB out of an MBA program?
Some former brokers, maybe a few worked in development or even construction. RE is such a small nuanced group that all BBs don't even recruit MBAs for it - it's like Goldman and maybe a few others. There is just not the hiring demand in these groups that there is in industrials, healthcare, etc.
I'd also add that there are some subtle nuances in terms of finessing the game. Quick example is not telling 3 firms you're their #1 bank to ensure you get an offer. A statement like that is a silver bullet because firms and alums at firms all talk. Second everything said above, especially cutting banks to early.
When you say 'cut banks early', how many banks do people feasibly recruit for at once? Shooting for all the BBs alone seems like a monumental task with networking and keeping your story straight.
100% echo what you said.
The qualified candidates that miss out are the ones that for some reason didn't target all the banks. Maybe they wanted EB or BB specifically or like you said just ignored MM's or Canadian banks.
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