Worst hours on Wall Street? (NYC)
Which BB’s and EB’s have the longest hours (not necessarily the worst culture) in NYC? We all know the obvious ones in GS and Moelis, but which others? I heard EB are generally longer than BB is this true? Thanks all!
Bump
Everything is team dependent
Yeah but some banks have a higher baseline than others, ie Moelis, GS.
Eg in Europe some banks are famous to be particularly sweaty / have bad culture across the board like Rothschild, Lazard in Paris.
Also some industry boutiques like Liontree or Arma probably have less differences across teams (if any teams)
Ducera has the worst hours by a landslide... never met more overworked juniors and seen more heavy churn as they have. The other larger firms are team dependent.
Can second this, one of my friends lasted 5 months at Ducera before lateraling to a sweaty MS group, and by the way he talks about how his life is at MS now compared to Ducera you’d think he was released from jail.
How many hours a week?
A
Not about hours specifically, but anecdotally, on a networking call, the analyst did tell me about yourself then started lightly grilling me on a restructuring deal i had followed. He ultimately decided it wasn't hairy enough to probe more and then let me ask a few questions lol
can second, had similar experience
Some poster here stated Raine was significantly sweatier than Moelis NY.
hahahahahhahahaha not true
I’m not that poster but anyone who says Raine isn’t unbelievable sweaty is very wrong. Multiple friends have interned/work there and they have never gotten off before 2/3am even before COVID.
That's what I assumed too.
FT Partners
lmfao i worked at ft partners this last summer, firm is unreasonably understaffed. 100+ hour weeks for the interns
Damn really? I almost took an offer from them for next summer but luckily some better banks came through. They look like they're solid in their space, but the culture/hour issues make it look like it parallels BGL, even though FTP is a way better firm. And was this NYC office? U get a return that you're taking or you looking for different place for FT? Laterals within banking look pretty strong from FTP though. Someone went to Evercore after their SA role and 2 people have went to JP Morgan during their analyst stint.
I was there, too. Hours were no joke. All the interns pulled over 100 consistently.
This is the same company that instead of giving bonuses when they had a good year they gave all the analysts metal coins with the CEOs face on it. Not surprised its a sweatshop
bump
A lot will be group dependent. Some seniors are just assholes and don’t care about their team’s wellbeing.
Anecdotally have heard some bad things about Jefferies as a whole though.
Edit: also how has no one mentioned Lazard yet?
What are the anecdotes you've heard about Jefferies? (did not throw the MS)
Not OP but worked at Jefferies before lateraling to an EB, and can add some color to the culture there. Jefferies has a very old-school DLJ-esque culture like Moelis, where the MDs absolutely go after everything, which translates to a lot of tough hours at the junior level. I'd say all the best groups in terms of deal flow are quite sweaty at Jefferies, and that often translates into extra hours. However, culture-wise I definitely enjoyed my time at Jefferies more than I do now at my EB. The culture at the junior level is definitely very collegial and is more "fratty" than the EB where I'm at right now, and as a result it made the bullpen so much more tolerable during late nights. The seniors were mostly good, with a handful of bad apple rainmakers that diluted the culture, but I'd say that's probably pretty common across the street, as the EB I'm at also has a handful of toxic MDs that ruin a mostly good culture.
Second this, many stories here and there and haven't heard a bank that's more shady in general. (Not sure how they do that for almost every group)
Not NYC but heard Evercore Houston is pretty bad
Hours are very bad. Very solid group but know a ton of smart people who don’t even apply there because of how bad the WLB is, especially relative to other Houston banks.
Heard all of their 2nd year analysts just quit ?
Greentech Capital (Nomura Greentech)- super strong junior culture, but the hours can be hell (months of 100-110+ weeks)
Source: used to be an employee
Ubs was basically 100 hr weeks all past year. Hell. Everyone left.
Do you know which groups? Can you PM me?
ALL!
Did your group buy lube for you, for every week you got fucked?
Houlihan Lokey's RX is insane with it pushing 120 hours depending on deal flow... And deal flow is always insanely high.
Although they do get 75 dollars for dinner though so it's worth it
can confirm it was nothing remotely close to that this summer. I also know that EVR rx is generally more hours than hl.
When I was interviewing last year, the guys were putting in around 110 a week. Said 3-4am was typically when they’d get off (they were scheduling interviews at like 3am). Cool team though.
No amount of dinner expense makes those kind of hours worth it..
I don’t believe it. 120h is 9-3am Mon-Friday + 9-12 weekends. If this is average nobody would stay there more than 2 months
There’s no way you’re an analyst if you don’t believe that. There are decent number of groups that have hours like that. My group is basically 9-1 M-F, and 12 hours/day on weekends and we’re not even considered sweaty.
Sorry you got rejected bud
I’ve heard a very disproportionate number of horror stories about JEF Houston
The hours are definitely on the upper end of Wall Street at Jefferies Houston but they have definitely taken steps to counter that. Increased the analysts class sizes by a good bit (I think right now it’s around 15) and also Saturdays are somewhat protected. You still work if there are live deals (which there’s a lot of those going on right now in the group given how hot the A&D market is) but there are still some Saturdays where one doesn’t work. Also I think the biggest thing has been the lack of a face time culture. The hours are a direct result of live work and the analysts aren’t expected to start early in the morning after having a late day and also don’t have to stay up very late just for face time, unlike other banks.
This obviously isn’t to say the hours are like 80 hours (definitely push the upper end) but things have improved than what they were a couple of years ago.
The A&D market is hot?
Heard crazy stories about comp at JEF Houston - AN1s pushing 250-300+? This true or just rumours lol
Any info on hours at PJT/CVP?
Great hours at CVP. Account based staffing means its variable based on what you're staffed on.
CVP 2A here, hours vary wildly based on the office. NYC tends to have reasonable hours depending on your accounts, SF does not work from what I hear, and Palo Alto is clocking in 100+ hour weeks since tech is very busy and they have had a lot of recent hires.
Overall not horrible in NYC but can be really grindy in Palo Alto
Tbh half the people I networked with at CVP NYC sounded like dead robots so not sure if it was just tough weeks all around or if the culture isn't as great as people say it is
How does this compare to other EBs? U talk to anyone?
How about groups at MS?
Hours at GS? TMT/FIG specifically
~
lol damn, you asked about GS TMT and FIG? Basically their most legendarily sweaty groups, haha.
Guggenheim TMT, Industrials and HC Services has been pretty bad from what I've heard.
Gugg HC Services is a gulag. MedTech/Biopharma are more civilized
Are you at Gugg? or just heard from someone else?
How’s NYC power or Houston energy?
haven’t seen Houston do much so guessing it’s cushy
JPM DI / Transpo gets tough, HC Services too.
Friends on the street tell me it is Evercore
Can confirm. Evercore hours smoked me
what groups?
While it's easy to peg banks broadly, the reality is it's always by group. You can be in a relatively non-sweaty group at MS but also be in a group at MS which makes you consider why you think you're worth even a dime to your family. No real utility in viewing banks this way until you dig down into their groups. Obviously different when everyone is a generalist but at least for the bigger banks it's a start to whittle down on culture.
Greentech (now Nomura Greentech) - has to be at least top 5. Might be hearsay but about ~50% turnover in 2021 across all levels and offices
Any idea of hours in Corp dev at a bank? Seeing as how it’s probably stacked with ex bankers are the hours rougher than other corporate roles?
bump
Why would a bank have a separate in-house M&A team when they have hundreds of M&A bankers on staff? CorpDev at a bank is definitely more of a strategy / COO role.
How are Moelis LA lads doing these days?
Bump, curious to know
Minneapolis groups in general have been brutal this past year as filling junior positions is an extreme challenge. Piper Sandler medtech has had some horror stories, and at my bank our headcount has cut in half despite volume increasing substantially.
Sounds like paradise.
can anyone give insight on svb's hours?
Also curious. Also, if anyone knows if Boston or NY is sweatier would be helpful.
HL
HL in D.C. putting in 100+ hours per week on a regular basis. Coming from a friend working in A&D M&A.
- UBS TMT (& basically every other group in the bank lol)
- JPM DI
- JPM HC Services
- JPM FIG (Brutal)
- Barc Industrials
- GS TMT
- GS FIG
- EVR Houston
- Jefferies Energy
- FT Partners
- Ducera
Good list so far. A few to add.
Qatalyst
HL RX
EVR RX
Citi Houston
EVR RX in a recession you mean?
Ubs has been really bad
Feels like Qatalyst pays so much that they're essentially compensating you for overtime.
PJT / PWP / MOE are brutal.
Pjt
M&A mainly
PWP has been really sweaty since covid from conversations with two analysts that left this summer to buy side. Culture still solid but tough hours
Can anyone expand on PWP
Tobin & Co. Any bank paying interns $0 should expect that having them work anything above 0 hours per week is brutal.
The reality is that any group that is lean and has high deal flow is going to be sweaty. You’ll get great experience, learn a lot, and get a ton of reps, but comes at a cost.
Also, at some places you can kinda cruise by and “hide” in the crowd if you avoid being proactive and try to avoid staffings (had a friend do this at moelis)
Evercore
Which groups?
Tech/Fintech, Media, Energy in Houston, Telecom. Basically everyone but HC who has little M&A deal flow.
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