I know a lot of banks are closely watching the very fluid COVID 19 situation, would it be possible that banks employ a virtual summer analyst program rather than possibly canceling their programs altogether? I know this wouldn't be an easy thing to do, any insight into the feasibility of this would be greatly appreciated.
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The training would be possible I'm sure, but I doubt banks have all the materials available for a full virtual program and education is just a small objective of overall training.
One of the main reasons behind analyst training is to build relationships with analyst from other coverage groups as well as other divisions, I'm mainly referring to full service banks that offer an array of products versus advisory only. For example, relationship managers will be pitching Bank debt (RCFs, TLs, PF), equity & debt CMs, derivatives, cash mgt., advisory, trading services, etc. It is helpful for analysts to know other analyst in all these groups when underwriting and getting internal approval for these deals. Bank debt needs a lot of ancillary income to meet hurdle rates.
So would they just suspend summer analyst roles? I know there is often a huge turnover rate with analyst, so banks are constantly needing 1st year anylst. Do you think most banks would just scratch summer anaylst roles then shift things forward to next year or would the 2020 junior SA just get screwed?
Hard to imagine being able to land a full time IB gig of any type with no junior year summer work experience.
If this proved to be a successful initiative, soon investment banking will be a career with an army of bankers in Bangalore... LOL
Having actually been to Bangalore myself, this is not true at all. The city is quite well to do and is by far one of the most modern cities in India. The idea that you could pay them 10X less to do 10X more is a concept from the 90s that is starting to fade.
Well Goldman strats in Bangalore pays way below bar than what it does in USA or London so.....
Also Bangalore traffic is the worst. But doesn't beat the cancer that is Jakarta traffic.
Full pay and return offers (or fast track FT interviews) would be easier than assembling a virtual program for each group. If virtual, the program would be bare-bones.
Unless the financial situation sharply deteriorates, BB/EB/MM are not going to be mass cutting interns loose. SA 2020 = analysts for 2021-2023, they will need bodies by then even if they can't physically accommodate interns this summer
what do you think would happen to sophomore interns?
potentially full pay and SA2021 offer
I'd agree with this. In the emails that many banks have sent over the last week they've made mention of "alternate accommodations" but none have commented on having a virtual process. I've been arguing that unless the financial situation deteriorates further, there's no reason why banks wouldn't just convert their classes to FT with some additional training virtually.
Analysts are cheap and it's far less work than creating a virtual program out of scratch that's never been done before. Conversion rates across BB/EB levels in the US are consistently 80%+ year after year too. Of course, this is again withstanding that the financial situation improves a bit or at least the markets float around these levels.
What will happen to sales and trading interns, where conversion rates are typically lower?
what exactly is a fast track interview?
Only people upvoting this are interns reading what they want to hear.
As an incoming intern looking to decide if I need to create a contingency plan, what is your counterpoint? What do you think is likely?
Some banks have already commented that they are not going to convert the whole class of interns to FT first of all cause they dont even know what the headcount will look like for 2021. Its obvious that only incoming interns would think about that possibility, its not feasible.
What banks have commented that?
so what could the alternative be?
BB bank in the UK, I am a A2 and when I asked about what they think that may happen with SA Interns I was told that right now they are thinking about these options right now:
This bank has also stated that it may change from one day to another but that they are committed to have the inters and that they wont under any circumstances cancel them.
what banks have commented that?
This would not be possible. You don't know how to do anything as a SA. You need guidance and in-person instruction.
What would this even involve? Ordering coffee for me on uber eats and remote seamless dinners?
I don't think you even need an intern to handle Seamless for you. I am pretty sure that as long as you have CapIQ, hit the CapIQ tab, Productivity, then "launch Seamless". No interns required.
Bump
Moelis installs tracking software on the analysts computers to make sure that they are working past 4 am every night
Justine Tobin rips the ventilator out of her COVID19 positive intern and takes it for herself leaving him to die
Blood for the blood god!
I dont see virtual interns happening in IB, the point isnt for them to do work but to see if we can get along with them.
Many firms have looked at virtual internships. Honestly, I would love for this rather then have no internships.
The alternative to no virtual wouldn't be "no internship" unless the economic situation worsens. Banks need a fresh analyst class each year to fill the spots from the 2nd year departing class. Either a direct conversion to FT or fast-tracked casual FT interviews with majority offers given out.
stop being dumb, we would never direct convert at my bb because offer rates arent 100 percent, and interviewing again also makes no sense because we already interviewed
How would virtual internship impact the return offer rate?
Pretty lower offer rates due to not building real connections, and also as many people will not be able to work properly as they get not enough guidance
so what are firms going to do to ensure that they dont entirely replace the A2 class assuming not everyone with the return offer returns...
Okay, gonna be candid here. Odds are, if things don't look like they are close to recovery by June, y'all are out of a job. Banks are not going to cut 1st years (they are the most valuable asset in the banks in terms of output/cost), 2nd years are going to be gone within a few months, and incoming FT have already proved they can do what you are trying to prove. So ya, more than virtual, I'd say non-existent unless things improve by the time you start. If we are still social distancing when y'all are supposed to start, that means business is NOT booming, so you become the least valuable asset to the banks
now, y'all can thrown monkey shits at me for saying that, but for once im not trying to troll and i'm being honest. If your follow up is "but they will need a class to replace the current 1st years," then I'd say you're not wrong, but also that out of everybody in the world, someone who hasn't even done a single day as a real, full-time employee anywhere ever, is not the banks' preferred choice. They will hire laterals, current 1st year analysts from smaller firms who would be willing to do a 3rd year to improve their brand name, etc etc.
i think rn the least of ur concerns should be ur internship. I'd be more worried about trying to help out to improve this situation and volunteer if possible bc this can go from a small recession to a massive one if this goes on for too long.
And last thing: out of all the dumb shit people are making up about what is going to happen, the dumbest is “automatic return offer.” If you think banks need you that badly, you better check urself. Just because y’all want that to happen really badly, it doesn’t mean it’s even an option. No idea who was the delusional junior who made that up, but I would erase that option of ur mind ASAP, cuz it ain’t happening. Could bet my now non-existent bonus on it.
I do agree with this lad here, the banks would probably fill them with off cycle interns, they don't need SA who add 0 values
Citi is gonna offer automatic return offers - I’m calling it.
WRONG: Moelis just announced guaranteed return offers. You’re such a wet wipe.
pay up, pussy. Moelis just did and others are bound to soon
Are you sure this isn't a troll? You actually think that when first year spots for summer 2021 start open in August 2020, they're only going to only consider current IB first-years a year in advance and NOT those who have not yet graduated like those spots are intended for? Do you know how damaging completely ignoring the graduating class of 2021 for full-time employment would be for a firm's reputation with university career centers, women's and diversity organizational partners, the media, etc? Interns get paid cents on the dollar for a major investment bank. 9 weeks of salary w/o benefits. Doesn't really sound like a ton of savings that would justify the hysteria it would create. And to clarify, I do believe internships could be cancelled because completely revamping a program to go virtual seems both costly and inefficient. But to follow a decision like that up with completely ignoring their would-be interns is ludicrous thinking.
hahaha, banks don't care That much about you and their image towards universities compared to what their shareholders think. Swallow the pill already.
Yeah idk about this idea that skipping a graduating class would absolutely destroy banks' reputations. Future starry eyed sophomores and freshman will still continue to line up to try to break into IB. Not to mention that it's a two-way street with university career centers -- schools would still work closely with banks to help get their kids connected. The more students breaking into IB -> the better a school's recruiting reputation -> more applications/enrollment/selectivity -> more $.
Also, Google cancelled some internships already. Think that's evidence banks would easily do the same.
Banks only care about their shareholders, they really don't give a damn about school reputation etc etc. They are well aware that everyone would still want to work there if they are given the offers
Congratulations for showing the world that you're an idiot.
At least this is exactly what's happening at my MM now at the moment...
Inciting fear in a couple of college kids doesn't solve your own insecurities and won't slow your prematurely thinning hair. You, like everyone else on this post, have not the slightest clue of what will transpire over the coming months or how the C-suite and HR view interns in this environment. Your opinion isn't special and your high-conviction speculative takes should be saved for day-trading FX. I respect the attempt at speaking into existence your hopes of lateraling to the big leagues from your shit MM gig working on pitches for Joe's deli acquiring wine&spirits. If I were to throw my hat in the ring, I would guess that banks will try to retain the existing relationships / pipeline of incoming inters as much as possible. If circumstances force a reduction in interns or subsequent FT offers, it would be through the LIFO method (ie.- targets will be fine, I'd start to worry at the Georgetown level).
that's an oddly specific set of insecurities youre trying to attribute to me. U sure u're not the one w thinning hair? just sayin. u seem to really wanna talk about it. We're here for u mate.
You sound very secure.
I think SF internships will take place as planned (as California reacted to the virus early and was able to contain it much better than NYC), while NYC internships may be remote
saying this based on your extensive HR experience, right?
think you’re the only one with experience who can have an opinion, right?
What about LA? Mayor put the city on lockdown for another 2 months and possibly more. Would probs go into June as well. Assuming SF could possibly follow suit.
Also, for anyone who thinks that interns will be left to dry for financial reasons and not for health reasons, you are missing the point of internships entirely. Interns are an investment into the future, and banks have already spent millions on campus visits, recruiting events, interview flights and accommodations, HR recruiting team salaries, etc. That would be money wasted if internships are canceled.
AND any dollars saved from not having to pay interns this summer will be spent on having to do a mass FT recruiting process in August. AKA even more money lost. If internships are canceled its because NYC/SF are still on lockdown or the health crisis keeps deteriorating over the next few months. Both scenarios are possible but unlikely.
Incoming FT this summer. I actually really agree with this. I think incoming FT people are far more at risk for getting their offers pulled because of money, slowed deal activity, not enough work to go around, etc. Like the comment said above, I think interns not having their internship is more for health reasons then financial
Yes my title says incoming, but that would be an even bigger waste of money- some interns have had multiple internships at a particular bank and made it all the way through- FT is much less likely to get pulled as others have stated in this thread and many others. Banks can play catch up with interns by just recruiting next spring or even right before in summer (worst case for them), however if they cut the entire FT class before they come in that would make zero sense as they would be without a workforce... You see what Im saying right
You're assuming you need a mass FT recruiting process. You don't know what the turnaround is going to look like. It could very well be slower than you think.
If the US begins to recover nationwide (very little new cases per day) by June 1st as Trump wants do you all think internships will go on as planned? Or delayed until July at least?
Most likely scenario is that internships are cancelled, and all SA are fastracked to FT interviews, although with significantly fewer spots
Jesus, stop throwing MS. Interns are absolutely cost center (as are 1st years) in S&T atleast. You don't know how to do fuck-all, and you literally have to have your hand held and be taught market concepts. You're not a modeling or markets genuis...
Whether or not internships go virtual / canceled, there will definitely be significantly fewer spots for FT. I know that the majority of this forum are students / interns, and it's something you have to really plan for. Speaking as a non-target grad, it's really unfair for many people obviously virtual interactions will not develop genuine impressions. Ultimately, it's extremely unfortunate, but that's the nature of finance, and will hit the class of 2021 the hardest.
How would firms even do remote S&T stuff? You can almost see it for IB/CM... do this powerpoint/slide/spread sheet... but what about for ST? Just ask the interns for investment ideas since they can' really do anything regarding the trading systems?
LOL. Just wow. People saying that banks don't need interns because they add 0 value? That is one of the most short-sighted things I have ever heard.. And if IB management actually feels that way, incoming interns should be glad to get cut so they can get out asap and go get other respectable jobs. Oh wait, you say there are no other respectable jobs out there? Okay.
What do you guys think of Winter internship instead?
I've seen a couple posts across a few threads suggest the idea of a shortened internship in the fall.
At least personally, I would be willing to push back my graduation by a semester if it meant having the opportunity to intern.
that would be awful
I know coop is a popular thing in Canada (since major unis are around big cities where kids can intern easily anyways) but I doubt many US universities can do that
Winter just wouldn't make sense. Winter break timelines across colleges are pretty varied and the only points of real overlap are during the week of Christmas and New year's when I doubt many FT people would be in the office anyway.
Heard that both mastercard and capital one have stated that they are doing virtual programs
Can confirm will be in lev fin group at cap one this summer remotely not sure how it’ll work out.
Probably something like 2 -3 week start date delay, virtual training and late end date flexible for those that need to get back to school.
Most people have gotten housing already (mostly NYU) which also already has a fixed move-out date. Do you think they would extend the move-out date in dorms or would SA have to find somewhere else. Also with a delay 2-3 week delay, then you think things will clear up by around mid-June then?
Good point on housing. I’m only anticipating what is a reasonable way to get these internships done. I would think most banks will most definitely get creative and want to get them in. I can’t see though kids showing up in NYC at the beginning of June. Some combo of virtual and a delay seems reasonable. But you are correct about housing being an issue.
WTF....we have a global pandemic on our hands and you are more concerned about your stupid internship than you are about flattening the curve??? Get your priorities straight man!
I don't think this is a fair criticism. I, and I am sure many other posters on here, have loved ones and people in our communities we care about. Nobody here wants people to die, and if we did a poll, I guarantee everyone would be for eradicating the virus.
The concern here is that these internships are the gateway for employment to many students on this platform, and we are considering now the possibility that they may be cancelled. For those of us nearing graduation, this means we have to search for alternative ways to support ourselves because we may effectively be out of a job.
Yeah i stand by you on this one.
I understand that your brain is not able to process more than one idea at the same time, but fortunately there is people intellgient enough to process different things at the same time. We can be worried about our professional future while we are worried about the future of humanity.
And I understand that you are not able to always be nice to people, which would obviously greatly hinder your ability to succeed at anything in life. I mean, shit....how can you even look at yourself in the mirror after your comment? Your momma should know that all her efforts to raise you as a child and fucking give birth to you have been wasted. You have proven your worthless, shameless ass on my thread.
BofA just emailed all interns saying their job is safe and they will be paid at their current start date, despite if needed to be pushed back.
Any comments as to whether it will be virtual or not?
not sure yet
can confirm krispee's comment
Here is my Pros and Cons Analysis of having SAs
Cons
Virtual internships miss the point. SAs need close attention because they are inexperienced
Firms want to retain the talent they already have.
A lot of uncertainty when things will begin to return to "normal"
Pro
A lot of time and money have already been spent on HR / Recruiting / interviews and just scraping that to redoing it doesn't work
No matter the market young people are going to leave the firm. Lateral hires are a short term solution that you need people from a host of schools to do the recruiting
Firms can bolster their brand helping them become more attractive in an industry that is all about human capital
How much of a pain in the ass is it for banks to do a virtual program?
I think a lot of people here are missing the point about what an internship is. I think a lot of you think you will be entertaining clients and cranking out models. More likely than not, you'll actually be ordering lunch for your team and scouring powerpoint decks for grammatical mistakes. But the main thing, is that you will be meeting your team. Your team has 10 weeks to decide if they want to spend 80 hours a week with you on the job. This can't be achieved through a virtual internship. A well rounded sociable guy and a complete nerd who hides in the corner will have a similar work product through an online internship. Obviously you have to be technically competent, but the baseline for that is simply being competent which most candidates should already have (If you made it that far in the process). You can't do your internship online. This isn't tech. It's a relationship/teamwork oriented business.
P.S. This is coming from someone whose internship has already been cancelled
BB (GS/MS/JP/etc) just sent out email to SAs delaying the start to July... and confirmed that a virtual option IS the alternative if stuff isn't better by July. They're following BAML's lead and compensating from the beginning of the internship & providing the housing payment as well.
Can anyone corroborate this?
its jpm
It's a good thing you hid the firm by not saying JP and saying (GS/MS/JP) instead, otherwise HR would have surely fired you on the spot
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