Recently had a girl tell me that all the first dates she goes on are dinner dates. Made me think, what percentage of you are buying girls dinner on the first date?? I'm strictly a drinks only guy, but curious as to what the norm/expectation is nowadays..
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How much are drinks? $20 a piece? So that’s $40 you’re looking at
A plate of food at an affordable place with water? Maybe $20 as well, so $40 total
Can work out to be about the same price and the other person isn’t hangry
Dinner at a respectable place: each entree ~$20, probably gonna order a drink for each person another ~$12 each, comes out to ~$64 + tip and taxes, its gonna be around $85-90 minimum.
Drinks for two: ~$12 each, with tip comes out around $29
85 - 29 = $56 difference
Get a grip.
depends on entree and drinks.
burger ($15) x2 + beer ($7) x2 = $44
cocktails ($15x2) x2 = $60.
if you're ordering a burger, it goes well with beer which is cheaper.
cocktails are small, so you'll both need 2 each. if you're asking to go get drinks, the date is more likely to get a cocktail and not a $7 beer.
$40? I think people are confused by what qualifies as a dinner date.
We should be looking at the +$400 range minimum. Pair that with drinks / multi-course, speciality items like wagyu steak, and you easily run $1000. THAT’S a dinner date — the full experience.
And this is also the problem with guys who take girls out on “dinners” for first dates. Inherently you won’t be blowing a non-trivial amount on someone you just met (as seen by your idea that $40 is enough). Until you’re balling like that, stick to activities as your first date. Make her earn the proper dinner.
Guys that are scared of doing non-first date dinners know, deep down, that she isn’t attracted to them. So you try to compensate with trying to swindle her into sleeping with you out of “deep conversations”. And she lies to herself by saying “oh he’s not THAT ugly, at least I get dinner”. He’s not THAT short, he’s not balding THAT bad, he’s not THAT skinny/fat, etc.
And girls that never “settle for less than first date dinners” show how much they’re actually worth by settling for $40 dinners. This doesn’t apply to girls who have a decent standard, but if she was fine with you taking her on a $40 dinner, that already gives you you’re answer.
Sure there are exceptions, but I just can’t stand guys who only know “dinner” as a first date idea. This is the psychological truth behind all the bs.
You’ve obviously not dated much - I feel sorry for your future dates.
this guys is absolutely correct. I've been on hundreds of dates.
price of cocktails is the same as the price of a burger ($15), but with cocktails they are small and are quick to drink, so you'll need multiple each, but with a burger one is enough per person.
Trying to practice traditional values is apparently cuck behavior now? If you're appalled that this woman is saying "all my first dates have to be dinners", you need to either a) reassess the women you attract/attracted to, or b) reassess your own ideas of what you're dating for.
Without any other evidence, this woman is either really stuck-up or has a lot of self-respect. If it's the latter, not paying for dinner isn't the badass redpill sigma move that a lot of you guys think it is. There's more to life than nominal, yet arbitrary 'wins' or 'losses'
No
Again, if you're looking for a partner instead of some bimbo to bed for the night, a setting where it is confrontational like that and you can't politely end it early should be exactly what you're looking for. Not only do you get to see who she is as a person (ESPECIALLY if you pick their brain with tact questions), but you get to experience being with JUST them in a potentially awkward situation. There's more to dating someone than going clubbing/on walks/museums/etc. where you're both entertained by something else.
Also if you're OP, you didn't keep anon for your replies here, dumbass
lol at this getting monkey shit. It's the absolute truth. No guy who is good with women routinely does dinner dates.
Sitting down for an hour having conversation that you've replayed a hundred times before, doing something that she has experienced a hundred times before as well, with no chance to increase physical intimacy or truly challenge each other a bit? Oh and you get a $80 bill at the end of the night?
It's a move for losers
no wife since God knows when. How does someone like me--39, failed, bi'dness undergrad with zero business savvy--wind up with a hot female to squander the molecule of strength, time and sanity he retains
That's exactly why you shouldn't do it. If it's a girl that you don't know beforehand, you have no idea if she just wants a free meal from you, is currently getting fucked by several other guys, and has no intention of actually dating you. Coffee/drinks first to try and suss that out, and if a girl flat out says no to that, she's clearly more interested in the free food than she is in you. This is especially the move if you're in a major city. You may find plenty of traditional women in the suburbs of Cheyenne, Wyoming or Salt Lake City, but they're a needle in a haystack in NYC/LA/Chi.
You are literally insane
if your in high finance and can’t afford a nice date once in a while, evaluate your life choices
If you've graduated college and still can't differentiate your vs you're, evaluate your life choices.
This is obviously a pet peeve of your's. I see you commenting on the yours all over.
No, we can do the math to value our options.
If it’s online dating just tell ‘em to slide to the crib as long as you have good banter going. If she’s not going to be that easy, then meet out at a bar for a drink or two to feel the vibe out and then go to your place. I personally wouldn’t take a girl out to dinner until the second or third date and that’s only if I see her as high potential. No free dinner dates outta me. Granted I’m still in college but don’t plan on changing the mentality anytime soon. Too many Gates/Bezos types only focus on women once they have money and that’s a one way ticket to getting taken advantage of and losing half your estate.
As a woman, I don’t think a first date needs to be dinner, but when I was single, I would say no to first dates that were drinks only. I’m not that into drinking to start with, and I take drinks as a first date to mean this is only about sex, which isn’t what I have ever really been looking for. I’ve been to a ton of fun first dates that aren’t dinner though (coffee, a nice walk, the zoo, events etc.)
I was about to say, why are people doing dinner for first dates?? My first date with a woman is always coffee and walk in the park. It's an activity we both probably do by ourselves all the time and the first date should be for hanging out like you're friends and getting to actually know each other. It's cheap, it's fun, and you both get fresh air, sun, and exercise (better to move than just sit). One of my buddies takes girls out on bouldering dates for the first date which runs him about $20 for two people using a groupon and it's fun. Also serves as a good filter for him because he crosses off women who aren't interested in being physically fit and healthy (more so not into bouldering though, he's from Colorado so he grew up doing that stuff).
For reference to others, I'm not dating in NYC or SF, I'm dating in Houston, so I've got the luxury of year round summer weather. Used to date in NYC before I moved and if you live in Manhattan the vibe definitely is to grab drinks on the first date but that's not smart. Much better to go for a walk in Central Park or even get a coffee and desert at a nice cafe.
Please let me know when you're single again.
Just have a list of places you want to visit that are fairly affordable. Wine bars aren't too expensive and I have been to places all over the city. I make it visiting a restaurant I want to try rather than just dumping money into a mediocre outing - and then I control the cost too, and most women are thrilled if you pick the place
There are def women who consider themselves to be princesses and you should pay for everything on every date forever and also surprise them with $$$ gifts - avoid those types - but buying a girl dinner on the first date is a pretty reasonable expectation.
I usually just lurk on here but as a woman this made me lol because for me a nice dinner is like 2nd/3rd base. Do something casual that breaks the ice first and shows her that she can be comfortable around you. Men like to think endless text convo is the said "ice breaker" but no it is not. Assuming dating apps are involved, I would genuinely hate dinner on the first date. Especially if it were an expensive and very fancy one with dim lighting or something because that would feel way too romantic with someone that I literally just met. It just goes to show how different all of us women are.
My first ever date with my now fiance was the Chelsea Piers driving range. I played in college so he asked if I could help him with his swing. At the time I didn't even realize that he was trying to proposition it as a date, but I was just trying to be FWB so I didn't care. Maybe it was the fact that I got to tell him what to do for an hour straight in a Lululemon mini skirt but yeah it was really hot and it helped us break the ice with each other before actually sitting down and being like okay now I really want to get to know you. Obv a very unique situation but my point is that activity dates >>> :)))
Dinner way too formal on the first date. One or two drinks at nice bar is the way to go
Ideal first date for me is coffee/tea. Ideally you have a local joint you go to that isn't one of the huge franchises (e.g. Starbucks et al). Bonus points if you are on a first-name basis with the owner/staff
Ideal first date is drinks with small plates. Sugarfish, any tapas places, Wally’s, etc are all good options. We’re seriously talking about $40 extra for food.
I also pretty much always eat when I drink, even if it’s just something small like hamachi crudo, pizza, mozz sticks (depending on the venue obviously). I love eating… I guess that makes me a cuck?
I don’t see a problem with something somewhat cheap/casual as a first date. Ideally we’ve been talking for a good period of time before pulling the trigger so you know they’re cool.
Something like pizza or just getting apps/shared plates I think would be ideal. Something super fancy as a first date like first time meeting the person is a little much in my opinion.
Does everyone overanalyze this stuff?
It would be a red flag to me if a girl were picking apart getting drinks versus dinner for a date and what that said about who I am.
Dinner for a 1st date is ridiculous, wouldn't consider it until at least the 3rd date
Drinks / coffee / tea / ice cream are the move for 1st dates. I guess you could do a tapas place with cocktails and some apps on a 1st date, but I don't think I'd want to drop that much on a 1st date. It also locks you in time-wise since food takes time to prep
In this day and age splitting the bill is the way to go. Equality.
I think what is important is that you split the bill like the above said
I think it depends on the situation. My gf and I met through friends and they set up a "group date" so we could meet. We met as a group and went to a restaurant, then to a movie. The total bill for each individual was way beyond $80 and I also had gas, parking and a pretty long drive. So more than 100 bucks. Was it worth it? yes, of course.
Before I knew her I did a variety of coffee dates, dinner dates, lunch dates and sometimes just a video call date (with other girls). It depends on what makes sense in each situation.
Dinner date was for a girl who worked near a mall and dinner in malls isn't that expensive.
Coffee date was with a girl who was very busy due to her job, so time was the constraint and not money.
Facetime dates were a thing even before a pandemic, to see whether there is chemistry or not. It's useful for both the guy/girl.
Also, please don't forget that a girl has to spend money to prepare for a date as well, even if she doesn't end up paying for the meal. For the right guy, she'd have to invest in mani/pedi, the right clothes or maybe a new dress, put on the higher end makeup, and maybe a blow dry? All of that is easily 50-80 even with the cheapest deals. If she likes the guy, she wouldn't want to show up with chipped nails, an old dress and an overdue hair appointment (and this is not even addressing looking good beyond the initial dates, i.e. brazilian wax, lingerie, eye lash refill, tanning, birth control/out of pocket pay, Uber rides, ..).
And no, I am not reducing a girl to her looks only. You know what I mean. A girl who is seriously interested in a guy will put in the effort to look good. The least I could do is appreciate her time and effort and pay for the meal. That's how I see it.
Another way of looking at the situation is: the women you are going on a first date with could potentially be the one you get married to and who could become the mother of your children. Is dinner really too much for that opportunity?
If you are not willing to shell out dinners for every single girl, then weed out more beforehand and only date the ones that really fit.
There might be a time in every man's life where nobody will go out with you. You will either be too young, too old, too sick or too poor. Appreciate the moments when a girl says yes, enjoys your company and make the best of this opportunity. You never know what could come out of it.
I wish I'd known this when I was in my early 20s. I was so naive, angry, ignorant, and misogynistic. You've given great advice. Too often we are unsympathetic and refuse to see things from other's POV. Dating is absolutely exhausting for women as well as for men. You definitely hit on the head that it's a lot of work for a woman to come presentable to a date for a man she's into.
Thanks for all the SB y'all. To be fair, I only spoke from experience but I also have an unfair advantage:
I have a sister.
Growing up with a sister is maybe not as ideal as having a brother (never had one), but a sister can give you invaluable advice and insight how the female mind works.
You can find a brother in a friend, but I don't think there will ever be a woman out there who will be like your real sister.
Sorry champ but this post just reads as complete naivety, or someone that really doesnt have experience with modern dating culture. Good for you for getting a great relatiosnhip, but otherwise bad advice
1. No woman is buying new dresses or getting a manicure for a first date lmao what is your first date, prom?
2. You are equating money to effort. It isn't. A dinner date is low effort. It's so low effort in fact that she has gone on dozens if not hundreds before you. So low effort that she likely wont remember it in a month when/if you both go your separate ways
3. Filter better before the date? Modern dating is a numbers game, especially dating apps. You should try to convert your conversation to an actual meeting as soon as possible because people are always much more different online than in person. Trying to do the opposite and really push all your chips into the table on an individual meeting will set you up for failure
If your experience is small towns, or meeting a woman through friends and you already jive well, then sure your perspective is a valid one. But for modern urban dating? Terrible advice.
coffee date on 1st date to get a sense of what girl she is
if she is worth getting to know, you can go for a dinner
if not, you had a stop loss of $2 (her coffee price) and not $20/30
still, if I like her after a coffee date, I won't go to dinner, I'd go to something more energizing like somewhere to dance (Latino party) or something that builds more sexual tension. Dinners are quite dry and are often pulled by guys that have nothing interesting going on and must impress her with restaurants.
where does coffee cost that little, I'm trying to go there
europe
Dinner still that cheap in Iowa?
This is the way.
I think the cuck is the one who cares about a detail like whether there’s food or not.
Woah I'm appalled. I'm a woman and this informational gap is giant. I'm married and in my late 20s so maybe it's a generational thing?? Taking girls out on drinks is fine, but we just don't really consider those respectable dates. Drinks imply flings and casual intentions. We only start seriously remembering you after the first dinner date.
Oh btw coffee dates are fine. They’re low pressure but don’t give off the casual fling vibes.
I’m a woman in my mid-20s and I completely disagree. Some women get very uncomfortable at the idea of sitting across from a man they barely know - or in many cases, have never even met before - and getting analyzed by them for an hour+. The feeling that they may think you owe them something because they're spending a lot of money on you is also unnerving. I remember a guy offering to take me to a nice dinner that I knew would cost $350 minimum since I'd been to the restaurant before and thinking to myself "Ugh I wish he had just asked me to get a coffee or something" because it just would've been a more relaxing environment. You either have chemistry with someone or you don’t and for many people they can figure that out within the first 10-15 minutes of meeting someone so being held down to a dinner that will at a minimum take an hour to get through is awkward in that case. I’m engaged now but I always highly favored first dates that were just a way for us to casually introduce ourselves to each other. We could then see if the attraction was there and if our personalities meshed well. Then if we liked each others’ vibe, we could plan a dinner for another time.
Whatever girl, I assume you’re talking
about meeting off a dating app. Or a blind date situation. Otherwise why would you go on a first date with someone you barely know? Lol. Why would you call it a date if it’s with someone you don’t even feel comfortable talking to for 60 mins? I don’t have a lot of experience meeting ppl on bumble or tinder or whatever, so my comments were referring to whatever ways ppl meet ppl outside of those
Can you confirm or deny that a women typically decides whether or not they would hook up with a guy within 30-60 secs? I’m betting this is true and have heard this from friends. It doesn’t matter for me any longer just curious
Yes same I’m a girl in college still and I agree
We’re using words like cuck and simp in this thread. Don’t expect it to exactly be a trove of social intelligence
you said you are a dude a few comments below son
This thread just goes to show how sad and ridiculous it is the way men in finance undervalue women. If any group of men in an industry can afford to treat a girl right and take her to a proper dinner it would be you fuckers. And you’re over here bitching about how expensive dinners are. Seriously??? Grow a pair
It's 2023, gender norms are evolving. We live in a society where women have equal rights as men, and fortunately inferior job prospects/glass ceilings are quickly becoming an antiquated thing of the past. I get that men absolutely should have been expected to pay for everything in the past (when things were far from equal), but why is this still the expectation in 2023??
I'm assuming some of you may instinctively assume I'm being misogynistic, but I'm genuinely trying to understand what the rationale here is...
Some of the women on this thread have hit the nail on the head - they don't want the pressure of a long dinner first date!
Avoiding dinner on a first date isn't to be cheap, or to be an Alpha male. It's to keep the situation low pressure.
In my experience, keeping it breezy, low pressure works with women. They respond to it and puts the man in position to be successful.
Dinner and flowers on first date? Only will work on the clingiest, most desperate - or perhaps super old fashioned - women…
Back when I was single - I followed a few self imposed rules to make sure I put my best foot forward for first dates.
There are no rules that work on 100% of women - but I found these to be low risk, odds improving moves for first dates:
1) never dinner
2) always drinks
3) never weekend night
4) always confirm beforehand on day of (anything to make it lower stress for her is good)
Another thing I liked to do (maybe just to entertain myself) was to take all my dates to the same wine bar. That way I could claim I was holding as many variables constant as possible - just trying different women - haha
Depends on how well I knew the girl.
If I didn’t know her at all and we just met online then I’d only do coffee or drinks, keep it cheap as possible while getting to know each other. If she has a problem with that then she’s not the one.
My wife and I were already really good friends before we started dating so I took her out to dinner on our first date. We had a great time and I didn’t think twice about it as I trusted her that she wasn’t just using me for a free dinner out.
if I somewhat knew her (let’s say we met through friends) then I’d do something in between like take her out for tacos at a tex mex place. There was a Tex mex spot near me that you could keep two dinners (or lunches) under $30 easy if you skipped drinks, still had a good vibe to it as well.
the bottom line is don’t pay for dinner on rando girls you meet on dating apps, who as far as you know may just be bored and looking for free food with no plans to ever date you. They are not worth it. Save your money for girls that prove to you they’re worth your time and money.
Dinner dates are for uncreative shmucks who get viewed at as a wallet instead of a romantic partner. It's boring, sterile, and worst of all - expensive. Also, no girl ever gets sexually interested while eating an eggplant parmesean (unless it's really good).
If you take a girl out to dinner, especially one you dont know as a first date, you are telling on yourself pretty hard
girls who will settle for a drinks-only first date are a bad investment. but of course it’s an even worse investment for them to accept a drinks-only first date with you. don’t know what your goals are but sounds like an all around waste of time. you should be taking them out to dinner. - someone who listens to girls
listens to girls? theres your first problem bud. Congrats on being viewed as a walking wallet
This thread is insanity.
girls can be insane so fitting
I matched with this hot blonde chick on the League recently. We have been chatting it up and probably will go on our first date soon. I’m down for dinner or drinks - I’ll let her decide.
Letting her decide does not signal confidence.
It's stupid - but early in dating - all you each have to go on is subtle signals.
If you want a high probability of success, you gotta be careful about what signals you put out there.
lobster and pasta
You gotta flip this question on its head. I used to ask girls, hey, when are you taking me to lunch? They would usually laugh, quite often they’d say, how about drinks instead.
At least start the convo that way then you can flip it however you want.
that is the aloof fun asshole kind of comment that hits the perfect sweet spot of showing confidence, differentiating yourself from average boring guys (many who are posting ITT), and taking her off the pedestal but in a playful and fun way
Congrats, others here could learn a thing or two from you
Want to see you boys succeed!
Hey boy, have you succeed? Keep us posted!
Sounds like you just endorsed something called “negging”..
Fly all sjws to France
She don't sound very humble about it unless she's joking. I would plan a dinner if its second or third date. And start with coffee in a fun cafe
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