Blackstone/KKR/Bain Capital Credit vs. PJT M&A/LAZ/GS/MS
Hi all, I have a summer analyst offer from the private credit team of one of the listed firms above and also have an IB offer from one of the listed investment banking firms. I would like to be in PE long-term and would appreciate your thoughts on these roles. I think the former role is more prestigious and more difficult to get, but I'm worried about the perceived transition from private credit to private equity. I'm guessing it's easier than IB to PE since you're actually an investor and finance PE transactions but would appreciate your thoughts. Also, what's internal mobility like at these firms? Would I have to leave the PC firm that I'm at to end up in PE or is internal mobility easier?
Edit:
I'm also open to working for a top-notch special sits group (i.e. Ares Special Opps, Blackstone Tac Opps, KKR Dislocation Opportunities, Apollo Hybrid Value, etc.). Also interested in working in private tech investments at a tiger cub and doing Tech LBO PE. In summary, interested in LBO PE, Special Opportunities PE Funds, and Late Stage Growth VC/PE.
If its normal way private credit and you want PE - do the banking summer. Technical skillset is going to be viewed more favorably from a top bank vs. a private credit shop even with the brandname. The PC -> PE people tend to move down market in fund size.
Stay in contact with the recruiting team though, as you likely could try to get a private equity analyst fulltime offer with the same firms.
are you more concerned about a PC Candidate getting the interview in the first place or being able to perform well in the interview/modeling tests? I don't think the latter should be an issue (compared to BB/EB candidates) so I think you're saying the former is where the risk is concentrated. Is that right?
I don’t have a strong view of my UMM platform’s performing credit teams ability to model to be honest so both. For example two headhunters won’t even talk to our juniors due to being employed by my firm on other engagements. The technical skill set is viewed differently.
I saw a couple other of your responses, this calculus definitely changes if you are open to PC or opportunistic credit as a career path, but solely for PE I would go banking. For people to give advice, really need to include full information rather than just saying you want to do PE long term.
My take is that while PC is a great role and you can make a good living there (imo, i’d much rather do PC than IB), if your goal is to go into PE, then IB is the move. Recruiting at the large PE funds is pretty standardized and pull most of their candidates from banks. PC to PE is not impossible, but internal mobility is actually pretty rare. Moving downmarket to a MM PE shop may be more likely coming from MF credit
Agree with the above. Although intuitively it would seem that PC would have a more transferable skillset to PE than IB, recruiters and HHs, won't view it that way. Think about it from their POV, BX and KKR have hired hundreds of former banking analysts to be PE ASOs. Why hire a PC analyst, when this method is unproven, and the other method is tried and true.
I was in a similar situation, but had LMM and MM PE SA offers vs top EBs (EVR/PJT). Intuitively, you'd think that going to PE, and getting a PE skillset would be better to recruit for MFPE, but all the advice that I was given is that MFPE An > EB/BB An > UMM/MM/LMM PE An. This is strictly due to the uncertainty of your training and skillset coming from a non-MF analyst program.
Take the EB, if you look at the MFPE analysts at BX/WP/KKR/SLP/Vista/Bain, most of the analysts either had one of those PE funds as SA or EB as SA.
OP here, I agree with the EB/BB over UMM/MM/LMM PE analyst programs. However, BX and Bain Capital have had long-standing PC analyst programs (while KKR's is newer) and all 3 firms are MFs so I'm not sure how much uncertainty there actually is regarding brand + training.
Also, I understand EB over LMM/MM PE SA roles but MF PC feels like it's somewhere in between MF PE Analyst and EB/BB Analyst programs. It seems somewhat hard to believe that someone at one of these firms who spends 2 years deploying $1+ billion of capital at like an 8-10% rate and building detailed LBO models would be at a material disadvantage to someone at PJT/Lazard/MS/GS.
I understand the headhunter's hesitation to offer up a PC candidate. That I believe is a legitimate concern and I believe this is the most serious risk.
Do you have any additional thoughts?
Private credit is more like L+600-650 bps these days and a 1% floor if you are lucky. 2 weeks to fill a grid. LBO model will not be detailed at all - maybe you move revenue/margin assumptions but that’s it. You’re not going to build from unit economics like you would in PE. Private credit is now a game of volume not quality for better or worse.
I didn't mention in my last comment, but I was also in your shoes where I faced getting a role at a top firm (BX/KKR), but not in the desired division I wanted (PE). I was so caught up in the brand name of the fund, that I was ignoring the skillset gap between my offer and what I wanted, which is what you're doing. This is my personal advice, and some of it was what was told to me, but don't confuse brand name for the skillset.
Although it might be KKR or Bain, a LMM PE analyst has a closer skillset to a MFPE analyst than a MFPC analyst. If you look at the opportunities in a vacuum and ignore brand, you're looking at an IB analyst vs PC analyst and evaluating from those two which is better for PE. Now if you add branding, but not top tier branding, ask yourself if you had Citi M&A and Owl Rock PC for analyst roles, who do you think would have a better shot at MFPE? The answer is the Citi M&A analyst. The brand is what is getting in the way of your decision.
Now if you want to look at brand, you also have to understand your competition. Your competition will have either top groups from top banks and most likely top school. Now all of your interviewers at the MFs will have done either banking SAs, PE SAs, or banking analyst programs. This means that your competition will have a lot more people to reach out to network with at said MF due to possible commonalities like worked at same bank, same group, same skillset. Versus if you did (for example) Bain PC, none of your interviewers are really going to have any connection to Bain or PC. This also hurts because if it comes down to you vs another candidate, you'll have more reasons to be dinged than the other candidate all else being equal. Your interviewer from GS at BX is not going to find the brand name of KKR PC better than the GS TMT, PJT RSSG, and Evercore M&A applicants. Also (for example), if your interviewer at BX used to be at KKR doing PE, they're likely going to think that the KKR PC analyst wasn't good enough to get KKR PE considering that you're also going to be up against PE applicants from either the same or similar MFs.
I chose EB over all my other opportunities and will be going to a tech-focused MF FT. These are just my thoughts and an amalgamation of other advice I was given when making the decision.
Definitely top MF PC > top IB
Would you care to elaborate?
Not that guy, but also believe MF PC > IB here. I’m surprised it’s the unpopular opinion.
My reasoning is MF PE is really fucking hard to land, even from the top groups at top banks. Keep in mind each MF only takes a handful of people each year. MF PC is a great safety net (discount in pay, but easier work and better WLB). I’d take a career in MF PC over IB any day. The path to PE won’t be as clear cut, but in theory you could still pull it off and have a sweet safety net.
I think another potential issue is that some HHs are typically a bit more cautious in reaching out to MF / buyside analysts vs. sellside since the buyside firm is also their client (or potential client). Could lead to some friction in potentially switching for FT.
Overall though would go for PC, especially if it's Bain - they have had no problem historically exiting to non-credit opportunities (including L/S equity) as they are a bit of a hybrid role AFAIK between typical private credit and PE.
At Bain Credit right now. Would not pair Bain Capital Credit with KKR/Blackstone Credit. We have a flexible mandate and you get significant PE and distressed exposure as as an analyst. Not to mention that PC is not our main focus. Most of our exits are to Special Sits or L/S equity. Few PE/VC exits as well. Have friends at BX/KKR credit and it's much more traditional private credit stuff.
We haven't started recruiting yet besides for a few select candidates at a few top schools and nobody has an offer yet to my knowledge so this is all moot.
If you don't mind me asking, what do your friends at BX and KKR Credit say about their analyst and associate exits? Also, do Bain Capital Credit analysts/associates self-select away from LBO PE, or have they had trouble getting interviews/offers vs. traditional IB candidates? Would appreciate as much color as you could share about BX, KKR, or your own firm.
i work at bx credit, on a team that can invest across cap stack. While BXC has a huge DL operation they do have pools of capital that seek out distressed / special sits stuff. Experience here is good, hours are rough, exits pretty solid as well (lot of hf, special sits roles elsewhere).
can you DM me? I'd love to ask some more detailed questions
how does experience vary across industry groups and how do you recruit on-cycle since 1: on-cycle happens 3 to 6 months into the job and 2: how do you deal with the geographic issues post-WFH? Do you have to fly out at the last minute?
My best advice is to go to the Linkedin pages of the people who did the MFPC analyst program as well as those who did the banking stint and see which group has placed best into PE (check peer MFPC analysts too).
very good idea but just 1 small problem. Bain Capital Credit exists as a separate business unit with its own LinkedIn page and company profile so it's easy to filter them. However, a lot of former non-PE analysts at Blackstone and KKR don't specify which group they were a part of so it becomes hard to observe and determine whether they were in Private Corporate Credit, Private Asset-Backed Credit, Leveraged Credit, Infrastructure PE, Real Estate, Real Estate Debt, or some other group
It’s safe to say that there aren’t very many precedents for this transition. If you’re 90%+ set on PE, I would suggest just going the path of least resistance. You should take comfort in the fact that you were good enough to land a top IB / MF PC spot so you should be a shoe in for on-cycle PE recruiting. Obviously MF PE is a crap shoot for anyone, but you should be able to land UMM PE if not MF. However, if you’re okay with staying in MF PC (which is obviously a great option) with a potentially worse chance of moving to PE (purely because of process dynamics), I think MF PC is a very compelling career path.
I think I feel more strongly towards this topic than most. Take the banking gig—you might end up at a buyout shop as an analyst after a banking summer at one of those shops at one if you really want to work at BX/KKR out of undergrad.
If you want to do private tech investments at a tiger cub (like a Coatue or a Lone Pine) or any of the other opportunities you mentioned (BX Tac Opps, Apollo Hybrid Value, etc.), the former will pull from the latter and the latter will hire out of top banking programs (like the ones you have offers at) or out of undergrad if you're lucky enough. For your long term goals, I wouldn't think private credit would be a good fit unless you plan on re-recruiting for full time anyway.
any thoughts on taking the credit role and then recruiting for top IB groups FT? Would someone from BX/KKR Credit be able to end up in GS TMT/FIG, MS M&A/M&C, Qatalyst, PJT RSSG, Centerview Partners, etc. fairly easily?
Also, did you have a PC offer?
Didn't try for a PC offer but did do a few credit internships in undergrad. That said, I think you have a mildly better shot out of BX/KKR PC versus PJT M&A/Lazard M&A/RX since people would be a little more sympathetic to your case. Most of these spots will do a measured amount of FT hiring, especially as top buyout analyst programs steal their summers, and there's a more crystallized thesis behind making a move from top PC to a top 5 IB group than from a top 10 IB group to a top 5 IB group. Again, it's still very hard to actually land one of these spots.
Separately, I do know several people who did summers at the banks you mentioned who landed special opps PE opportunities for full time, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be out of PC.
Also would flag that if you're already at GS/MS/PJT, might be hard to transfer internally to TMT/FIG/M&A/RSSG unless you know someone or want to piss off everyone.
IB is tried and true in terms of past data, but I'd argue past data shouldn't weigh as much given the recency of all these MF analyst programs.
Unless you have a VERY strong interest in something very high up the risk curve like growth equity, I'd just take MF PC. If your universe of desired career opportunities is in the zip code of LBOs / special sits (which sounds like it), then do MF PC. Most BB analysts will end up being rejected from every MF associate role they apply to, both PE and PC, so think twice before you give up a seat at a MF.
These are what you'd get from a MF PC program which most 22-24 year old IB analysts on this site won't:
Source: I did MF PC out of school a few years back. It wasn't for me, so I went purely for the brand, but all in all I still probably would've done the same thing knowing what I know now.
As a pretty middle-bucket performer at my MF, I received multiple associate offers at top-flight funds in both special sits and LBOs, and it was really easy to set myself apart from the pack during recruiting compared to the IB analysts - for many firms I definitely felt I was their top-choice candidate due to the relative scarcity of profiles like mine. And unlike a lot of my banking peers (my roommate was at EVR) recruiting for those jobs was a lot less work - I didn't really need to drill models as much since I literally did underwriting for like 10 deals by the time I did my modeling test. Interviews-wise, all I needed to do was to go in and repeat stuff my investment committee says every week.
I actually ended up in growth equity after my analyst program, which is something which would've been easier if I had been in IB / consulting. If this happens to be something you really care about having flexibility for, definitely go the more generalist IB route. But the fact even I was able to make the transition to growth (after some hustling) should also give you some comfort in picking MF PC.
EDIT: Just for transparency let me clarify that all the PE offers I received were from places with more of a value/credit type DNA. Like Apollo as opposed to Silver Lake.
As an intern going into a credit role at a MF, this is super super helpful. Couple of follow up Q's:
Question: What is your opinion on the liquid credit teams within the MFs? Do your statements on private credit hold for this end of the asset class?
Question: what would be the best way to lateral within the firm, if I have awakened to PE since signing? Would the best approach be to kill the internship and hope the team has your back if you ask nicely? Should I get a competing MF PE Analyst offer and try to leverage? **Note: This is a hypothetical and I will likely stick to credit**
Couple of questions.
1. did your team know that you were recruiting or did you have to recruit in secret?
2. did you recruit on or off-cycle?
3. Will firms fire you if they find out that you're looking to leave?
4. Where is the rest of your MF PC analyst class today?
5. What were your interactions with headhunters like? Did you get every interview you asked for?
Hey man - I appreciate this comment as someone going through a similar process. Is there any chance that I can dm you (or me since you're anon)? I have a few follow-up questions that I'd love to get your feedback on. Thanks
From your replies to the comments on this thread, it’s pretty clear you want to go with the credit gig. End of the day, they’re both good offers and this is just one job in a long career, so if you already have your mind set, just go with that.
I've heard anecdotally that the reason that there are not many MF PC Analyst exits is due to self selection. These analysts have a great seat in a growing asset class so not much reason for them to seek exits but they are available.
Congrats on Lazard man you’re gonna kill it
OP here, how does the calculus change if you get an offer from a top group (i.e. GS TMT, GS FIG, PJT RSSG, EVR M&A)
man nobody really knows the "calculus", there's a lot of variability / factors involved here. it seems like all the ex PC analysts are saying do PC and all the banking folks saying do banking. I'm at a top BB group and felt like it was very easy to get a MF offer (went 1/1 in terms of MF I interviewed with and offer) so I would say join that top banking group if you want MF PE but that's just what I know and everyone's experience is different and you aren't going to get the silver bullet answer.
del
hell yeah love this for you. shoutout wso
Hey man - as someone going through a similar situation, would love to hear what you ended up deciding and if you had any new insight since you first posted this thread. Thanks
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