Simple - title. Wtf is going on?
IP exits across the firm, no update on fundraising across strategies while Thoma and Hg pull in $30B each, seems to be a poor sentiment overall (from exited IPs, and definitely on this forum)
Ignore title, incoming AN1 and tbh wondering wtf I’m getting myself into and how to optimize experience
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They bought a bunch of software at peak valuations in 2021. We’re in the Saaspocalyse in 2026. Is that enough info?
So did Thoma? And yet a massive difference between the two firms now
Thoma DPI half their fund asap from one investment… they aren’t the same
bump
dm
Which fund / office r u?
As we say in German, sie sind gekocht
The whole “2020–21 blew them up” narrative is way too convenient. Hg and Thoma were more active in that window. Vista was comparatively less active because they were dealing with legal issues with Robert Smith being implicated in the tax fraud allegations and kicking out their other co-founder.
The bigger issue is exits. Software multiples reset, the IPO window shut, and now monetizing at 2021 marks is a lot harder. They’ve also clearly slowed down on realizing outcomes post-2020 as they’ve scaled. Some older positions that are underwater just sit there. If you don’t crystallize losses, you can maintain the optics of “very few misses.” That works when DPI doesn’t matter to LP's, not now when it's a key focal point. It matters now.
Then layer on governance questions. Kicked out Brian Sheth, former president and co-founder, in late 2020. Robert Smith’s tax situation was a massive overhang. No obvious, institutionalized succession bench the way Thoma has with Spaht / Boro / Crabill. Vista is effectively a $20bn+ fund around one undeniably great but highly centralized decision-maker, with a history of pushing out others (both other co-founders in Stephen Davis and Brian Sheth were kicked out and now run their own firms). When performance is top-quartile, LPs ignore that. When it’s not, governance issues might matter more.
It's pretty clear that Vista is a cult around Smith. The firms number 2 is an ex-lawyer, not even an investor. It's also the only MF I can find with 1 investment professional as CEO + President. Others either have multiple CEO's or also a number 2 that's also a investment professional. Even Thoma Bravo, led by a similarily famously great investor, has 4 other managing partners.
Cloud Software Group is their big exit they're waiting on. The firm's success/fundraising going forward is pretty contingent on how big the IPO for it ends up being. So far, though, it's looking to be good for Vista when it does exit.
does it have sufficient growth for an IPO (especially in this market)? also too big to go to another sponsor and if Broadcom / etc haven't bought it yet, assume they aren't exiting to a strategic. from outside looking in, seems like a great, but stuck, asset purely bc of size
IPO markets seem pretty dead right now. To get the same valuations as they marked even a few months ago, they would have to significantly also improve their revenue growth and margin profiles over that same time period given where multiples are. Vista has held on to a lot of assets for well over 5 years now, it's not a great sign when you cannot exit anything. This is made worse by Vista marking Pluralsight as a good investment right before it all blew up. Not sure how LP's can trust Vista's marking.
ignore title
Ur fine..most juniors left because 1) they don’t wanna work in Austin/Chicago / wanna be in New York 2) they don’t see themselves becoming VPs+ after 2+2+1/2/3 as senior asso
If you care about being in NYC, then just exit after two years to a NYC based MF/HF
If you don’t care, Vista pays very well (analyst level above street, asso level >=street) and you’re gonna save much more money than ur nyc friends from tax and rent in Austin / Chicago
If ur asking this ur prolly their FT flagship hires to Austin so up to u to decide if u wanna be in Austin for a few years
It’s not a sinking ship. If anything they’re not gonna have a worse year than 2024 (pluralsight write off) in a few years. Further into the future? Nobody knows but you will be an experienced asso by then so I trust u can be wherever u wanna be
Also ur prolly gonna have the best wlb ever (minus FT training weeks)…so on an after-tax-after-rent $$ per hour worked basis their comp is prolly quant trading level…
Does Vista have good WLB? Heard it was horrible from friends that are analysts/associates there. I don't think it's Apollo level-bad, but culture/WLB seems rough. Other big issue seems to be lack of transparency and just overall exposure to what's happening outside of the basic analysis.
Additionally, wonder how you think about Robert Smith's announcement that 40% of the jobs of investment professionals will be replaced by AI. I can understand why Vista wants to move fast on AI, but seems unideal from a junior perspective.
As someone from Texas, will note to OP that Austin is a great city to live in and a pro compard to NYC/Chicago. Way cheaper than NYC, no city taxes, sunny weather, great hiking trails, decent nightlife (obviously not NYC, but it's pretty good relative to COL), Circuit of The Americas, tailgating for Texas football games, Texas BBQ,TexMex, etc.
Yes at least for this and last year. Plus they have a crazy wfh policy.
No opinion cuz I don’t work there. I do believe that AI will replace some of us, but when that happens it doesn’t rly matter what your CEO thinks or says to the media cuz every right minded ceo will do the same
A lot of this is true but with respect to the firm overall (beyond just comp and city stuff), think there are some serious institutional issues?
Have heard anecdotally about the terrible lack of transparency from management, and they’re lagging in fundraising across all of their strategies? Does this not feel like a zombie fund in the making? Great brand name that means a lot in the Finance and Tech spaces with good Analyst and Associate programs, but not sure if the calculus makes sense beyond that level
yea true re: issues with fundraising
Last fund was a little below target and no news of fundraising for the next
My whole point was that for someone like OP joining as AN1 they’ll be fine and shouldn’t worry abt jumping ship yet, and the calculus makes a ton of sense for a junior. Agree with the rest
How does junior comp stack up compared to other UMM/MF’s at the analyst level? Do you have any insights into the comp structure? Incoming MM trying to gage industry, but there’s much less visibility into PE analyst pay vs IB.
Last I heard is that Vista Associate 1 is 380k, but in Austin (which per the Smart Asset COL calculator is equal to $~490,000 in NYC primarily driven by higher housing costs and taxes). It's amongst the highest comp shops in PE, so maybe not a good comparison point. Think most UMM's are ~300+ these days for associates, unsure of MM firms. Comp will largely follow firm size with some exceptions. I think all the negatives have been outlined by the assoicate in an LP and the one in PE enough, so not going to go over that again.
Stay the fuck away from Vista. The place is institutionally fucked and it has nothing to do with being software focused (won’t reiterate all the comments that have been made already regarding Thoma and Hg). The fact of the matter is that LPs do not trust this institution anymore. The last mark that LPs saw on Plurasight was a 2.0x MoM before we all found out though Bloomberg that it was going straight to zero. Robert Smith is a scumbag. Fuck these guys. Source: work at an LP
Interesting perspective. Any insights into how their fundraising for fund 9 is? Have they started? Whats the target / how are LPs seeing this?
Probably fucked and delayed. Where is the LP appetite for Software Buyout in the current market, and for Vista specifically (plenty of other managers that do SW BO now - Thoma, Hg, FP, SLP, TA, probably some more I’m forgetting)
What are exits like?
It's a MF... what do you think exits are like?
“MF” titles are stupid. Not sure anyone taking Vista over SLP…
Fact is Vista has had significantly worse perf than QQQ since like 2007 (last 3-4 vintages suck).
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anyone working there that can share insights on whats going on internally? frankly, it seems odd they can still look credible to LPs after the founder mess with tax authorities and the co-founder being kicked out
Everyone from my banking class that ended up there has since left
They looked credible to investors because their returns before their other co-founder left looked great (at the time), and thus LP's were willing to ignore the issues you mentioned. The 2018 and 2016 funds were 4th and 3rd quartile respectively, 2023 vintage fund hasn't yet return capital, and LP's find it hard to trust Vista marking after the Pluralsight situation. The other co-founder also went and raised the largest first-time fund ever, and probably took away at least some dollars from Vista. We'll see how his fund does, but if does well that also won't help Vista's story.
Incoming SA - Any recs? Should I be looking at FT elsewhere?
Would consider working for an AI company over vista. It’s not the best place to be. Massive turnover, a lot of poor assets. Terrible fundraising environment for all three funds.
Feel like this applies to every PE firm... AI companies are the clear next wave of big thing and this is the best age to take risks. All of PE is a terrible place of fundraising and most MF PE firms have no path above associate, which is one of the only pros of Vista.
Strongly disagree with the “upward mobility” point on Vista. Obviously there will be a path after associate if everyone is leaving lol.
As someone who was at Vista and recently left, this is a bit of an overreaction. It's a solid place for juniors to do a year or two before moving on to idk another PE firm, HFs, venture/growth, AI startups/labs, etc., depending on what you're interested in. Not sure if this will still be the case in a few years, but at least recently, when I left, other shops (especially tech teams/firms) had a positive impression of the junior talent coming out of Vista, and you get great looks (up to you to convert, but that holds true for every junior coming out of MF PE).
Also, I will pushback and say that there are a lot of really overvalued AI companies that are honestly not that good, so I would encourage people to really make sure they're joining a well-positioned one. If you're more risk-averse, Anthropic/OpenAI are great places to be right now.
The people who join for current recruiting cycle as analyst would join FT in 2028 and those recruiting as associates would join FT in 2027. So the question really is: what will exits from Vista look like for associate roles in 2030 and senior associate roles in 2029.
It's a MF today and will still probably exit fine even then just due to historic reputation, but it's very clear that things are not all that rosy within Vista given fundraising tailwinds, return issues, and losing a co-founder. I think it's fine if not looking for a longer-term PE career; but much worse if you are.
There are no exits to HFs from Vista or similar funds. Not sure what you’re talking about. Certainly good opps in corp finance / strat at startups
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LMAO - Intern here from this thread
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/vista-vs-thoma-bravo
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/vista-vs-thoma-bravo
Funny that everything in the past two years has played out exactly as I said, while d-riders were all spouting nonsense without the facts I had to back it up.
Like I said two years ago and I will reiterate again, Vista is a sinking ship and I would stay far away
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