What’s “the path” now?
From what I understand - and my view is skewed bc 1) our bank pays better than most and 2) I’m a silly billy who knows nothing
IB: long hours, less “stimulating”, but better pay/benefits (paid paternity leave), better mobility (promote, lateral, etc.), transferable skills only to other employee jobs (I’ll never be a bank, but I can work for a bank/corp dev/PE)
PE: no longer the “golden goose” (top-heavy, no promotions, hard to lateral, carry doesn’t exist), more “stimulating” (IB = sales, PE = investor/operator), potential exits to HF, pseudo - transferable skills (entrepreneur )
HF: only real potential to get “rich”, usually better hours, transferable skill set (investing in equities), could lose your job any day - but garden leave is dope and you prob made enough to be fine anyway
I hear great things about PE from buddies who are in it and even better things about HF from guys there as well.
Other than those select few - everyone else makes it sound a little grim.
Curious your thoughts. Make peace not war in the comments - namaste.
People say “do what you enjoy” which is fair but we all know if you’re going to move IB > PE you have to decide early on before you have a chance to “know” what you enjoy.
Been contemplating the same thing a lot lately. Kinda sucks that in this industry you don't really have much time to deliberate before being forced to make a decision down a particular path.
Good news is: we’re not working at NW Mutual
"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
"
This made my eye organs wet.
Make a bag and then buy a goose farm?
100 years later and it still fucking hits.
Stop being risk-averse nerds and do what you actually find interesting. The fundamental jobs of IB/PE/HF/Corporate are so different at the senior level that the people who are good at them have completely different temperaments and interests. You'll make the most money doing whatever you're genuinely good at and enjoy enough to keep working hard. That's it. That's the path. The people good at long-term private markets investing, advising on transactions, investing in public markets, or running large finance organizations all get paid very well. Pick the one that suits you, not the one you think has the highest theoretical ceiling. There's no guarantee you'll even reach it.
Everyone else in finance is overthinking it because they hate their jobs and want to convince themselves it'll get better at the next promotion. It won't. You either like the work or you don't, and you should find a job you might enjoy. That said, 2+2 makes sense if, and this is a major if, you broadly like finance and transactions but haven't figured out if it's IB/PE/HF/Corp Dev. PE teaches you how to think like a long-term asset buyer and actually evaluate businesses, not just sell services, which remains a helpful way of thinking across all of these career paths. Plus, if you end up hating PE you have way more options in terms of where to go next than if you stay in banking and realize you hate it.
Aggressive entry, but we’ll give the rest of the wisdom a 10/10.
Well said fellow man.
How would you describe the type of person that does well or would enjoy the top levels of PE vs corporate (or in todays world for example going down the employee of a startup path given AI) or consulting?
I think I’ve always found the idea that you have a natural affinity for something particular in a spectrum as broad as finance without first being exposed to the different flavors to be difficult to grasp.
When people I speak with tell me they wanted a specific flavor of finance and they’re now doing it - I think, short of internships and other work experience how could you know that you wanted to do RX in consumer and retail?, for example.
The most successful people I’ve met either love what they do, are very hard working, or both.
Short of a natural aptitude for math, for example, or having been raised in an environment where you have advocates for a certain path - I don’t know how someone “knows” what they want, and I’ve always been very impressed by people who do.
How do you reconcile the benefits accrued by those taking the IB + PE + Biz School pathway for those who already think they want to work in a different area?
Someone may know they enjoy equity investing but believe that taking the IB + PE + Biz School pathway is the best means by which they can work for a large asset manager or hedge fund. Thus, those looking to work in public equity are incentivized to work in an area where they might not succeed or necessarily enjoy so that they can work in area they can.
Do you recommend that kind of person follow the IB + PE + Biz School path, or actually try to chart a path of their own (e.g., recruiting for buy side out of undergrad, starting their own fund, or working in equity research on the sell side) that would be more similar to their desires?
I know guys in great publics seats who all got there different ways and absolutely love their jobs.
One did the “path” of top tier bank > top tier PE shop > top tier fund…
One went straight from his bank after 1.5 years to his dream fund (which is excellent)…
The other started as an investment analyst at a fam office > first real fund > got laid off with his PM and took garden leave > now has a GP stake and works 3 hours a day.
I believe in being the exception to every rule, but working like you’re not just in case.
Maybe it's just my firm, but banking has been pretty good to me so far...
No I get it -
If I stay I’ll make more than at the Megas, I’ll have better benefits, I’ll save more (bc I’m at a regional), and the culture (while a total sweatshop) is pro wfh - so for a family that would be good.
If I jump to the buy side, I move to NY, get a shitty apartment, and have to jump again in two years to god knows where.
“We say Zimbabwe now, don’t we?”
“Do we?”
this guy says 'bru' in the bullpen
In the same exact spot, have no idea what to do.
Didn’t really like banking and feel like I wouldn’t be good enough at PE.
Want to find the best path to use my social skills and take some risk. Thinking entrepreneurship?
I’ve considered BD on the buyside but it’s a total black box and unfortunately I think they’re more like opps than dealmakers (bc those guys would be partners on the investment team)
Entrepreneur makes the most sense for agency and wealth creation, but LMM business is tough bc you’re really buying the people, and you’re still in the position of more money = more opps to be an entrepreneur, so you have to chase the thing that makes the most which in my case is still banking.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Have also been thinking about investor relations on the buy side. If you can find a growing firm that values fundraising and is willing to share economics, seems like a pretty sweet gig. Not sure how common that is though
Having worked in PE for a number of years, BD really depends on the firm. In some cases it is the main relationship builder with brokers and bankers and primarily are the ones that create the deal funnel. They aren’t evaluating companies outside of broad investment thesis fits, but they are cultivating relationships and sourcing deals. Post IOI, I haven’t seen BD deal too much with the intermediary and the investment team usually takes over the specific deals.
In my opinion, it’s a great role at a PE firm since they don’t have the hours of the investment team but still make amazing money and carry at higher levels. It’s perfect for people who love relationship management, more extroverted, and don’t necessarily love the buy side’s valuation, research, and materials creation.
Take all of this with a grain of salt that every firm is unique and not all roles are the same in this industry. I have only seen a handful of funds and their BD teams in action so it’s just my perspective.
To be frank, when I was deep “in the path” ie NYC area high school valedictorian, Wharton top of class, recruiting, EB banking, MF PE recruiting, MMHF and Tiger Cub recruiting; the path as far as I saw was as follows:
Whichever company paid $$$$$$ the most to someone in that age group / career path. Cash comp and “non-cash” comp like lifestyle, interesting work, office perks, etc.
Just to add more color if desired. First obviously is base salary and expected bonus; that was effectively like guaranteed comp. Second was lifestyle/hours needed for it (lower the better obviously). Third was cash earnings trajectory over the next 5-10 years or whatever. That’s really all it came down to: the money.
Firms would go out to recruit students/bankers/young people or whatever and whoever started throwing out the biggest “guaranteed” cash comp, word spread to the other kids and everyone started seeing that as the “best path” or most prestigious.
BX PE was hot for undergrads as it paid the same more or less as top banking jobs with a better outlook for the next 5 year comp and lifestyle.
Top banking groups offered highest cash pay right away and then strong indications of even higher cash pay if you checked the box and moved over to a PE Ass program.
Top PE ass programs either dangled higher cash pay to year 1 associates or the path to top bschool / accelerated partner promotion and hints of carry and mega pay days
Top hedge funds would seemingly offer lower near term cash pay to those but dangle quicker path to carry kinds of pay days ($10m+) as compared to PE partner with more interesting work along the way.
Tech was moreso like a HF in that you could get equity and a big payday at exit. Unless you actually have tech/coding skills and then it’s just a great salary and lifestyle.
From what I recall back in the mid 2010s when I was in the thick of it generally for those kids who only did finance / business studies and those were their only skills (excel modeling), the highest payers were banks. For someone who had banking experience, the highest payers were PE generally. For those with 2+2 exp, the highest payers were fundamental HFs., hence you saw a good amount of the IB > PE > HF route or what have you.
For today’s era, I would basically just use the data on WSO and that’s gathered by other recruitment firms and see which firms pay the most at each stage of someone’s career. There is your path.
Good luck
Despite being extraordinarily basic compared to other explanations, this is really interesting perspective for me. It's perhaps in being so basic that's so intriguing. Bottomline, in acting rationally, everyone just picks the best option immediately before them at each stage.
I mean it totally makes sense and helps me think through the PE > HF jump that forever puzzled me. I always felt like that last step basically was just such a wild-card among the remaining earlier parts of the pathway. As long as you can essentially do the job, then do what the best outcome would be
Absolutely agree with the points made on the fundamentals of the job. I think of it like a 'gameplay loop'. The job of an investor is so different from an advisor / salesman in IB. Would add that relatively strong IB cash comp and the reality of carry realization has made PE less of an obvious next step. I would only leave IB if you had long term aspirations to fundraise, run your own fund, sit on IC / make investment decisions. If you genuinely enjoy advising companies, thinking about strategy and positioning, why leave?
You’re both right - this is exactly the mindset I have and am only grappling with because I’m married and looking to have a family soon (I’m older than most AN1s).
If I stay at my IB, I know exactly what to expect for the next 10 years and it’s better than 99% of earners (except for the lifestyle sacrifice which is pronounced)
But I’ve always loved the idea of being in a position to earn trust, raise capital, understand businesses, spot and create value, and be compensated well for that.
The agency of a fund, however stressful, seems like a real moonshot, and why not if all moves carry risk?
But I’m not 22 and single - with real family obligations (mentioned and otherwise) staying near the home base and banking top-of-street comp seems like the reasonable thing to do.
Do whatever you want. You're on your own path, don't let some "golden path" decide the rest of your life. There are enough pros and cons here for you to decide for yourself. I personally think staying in IB (currently) has the optimal risk to reward. But whatever you choose, you'll make a lot of money if you stick with it long enough.
I do want to add that entrepreneurship is a valid path for all of us. There's absolute idiots running HVAC companies and making millions a year. If you're smart enough to break into high finance, you're smart enough to build your own business. You're limited only by your own belief, skills, and creativity.
There is something contradictory about asking others for "the path". If it is truly your path, you have to discover it yourself. If someone else can guide you to a "path" then is probably the wrong path for you.
Disagree - we all benchmark ourselves to others and short of having an affinity for a certain thing, we’re all just trying to be successful.
To study how others became successful is obviously viable.
Discernment comes with experience.
'The path' on WSO is commonly understood to be the 2+2+2
They are simply asking for the current version
garden leave is not great - 2 years of only base salary, no bonus, and harder to recruit as your sector can change a lot in 2 years
Top trade school —> top apprenticeship —> top plumber
New business registrations are up substantially in recent months. Start your own business and with AI you can probably solo it or have a go with a couple of talented friends to $4mm run-rate before having to hire more people.
Thoughts on businesses?
Ads
Leads
Content
Business services?
I have two friends killing it in AI native content and b2b lead gen. we're talking a team of 4 people that are generating $4-6 million of revenue at 20% margins. if you can find a space with regulations so there's domain expertise, but AI can remove the friction points and bottlenecks heavily.
for example commercial insurance or helping small businesses automate permit filings and filling out regulation paperwork
You guys really need to figure out what you like and are good at rather than chasing these defined paths. No wonder so many people in this industry are miserable
How can you find what you’re good at without trying new things?
Bumping this
The “path” is simply to find your niche and pursue what you’re good at. You have generalized these paths by extremely broad categories and no one can make the right conclusion for what’s good for you but yourself. Stop being so generalist in nature - find an industry, product, company or something that you find fascinating and jump in 100%. Dig in and become dangerous in your domain of expertise. Be someone people need, not a clone of everyone else pursuing these extremely broad categories of PE/IB/HF, then people will want to hire you, promote you, and so forth
As someone 3 years into PE, I would disagree that PE is any more stimulating than IB. Might be worse
Read a ton of threads about PE lifestyle and every single person except one VP said it was horrible.
My hours are decent, it's the only reason I've stuck with it
Can confirm - happiest people I know tried the "path" didn't get what they wanted and in off-cycle ended up with sweet gigs they intend to ride into the sunset with.
Lmao since when is “investing in equities” a transferable skill set? Probably the least transferable skill…no one outside of a fund cares. HF guys who blow up and get out the industry struggle with getting “normal” jobs
Someone’s grumpy - imagine you have 1-3mm liquid or in investments from your first 10 years of working and then you get laid off.
If you’re doing long/short or merger arb - you’re analyzing markets all day.
You could easily manage your own portfolio - do the boring stuff (rebalance index funds) and take a discretionary portion to bet on the market.
It’s not a sleeve of the PL using other people’s money, but it should be enough experience to actively trade bc the market is anything but efficient.
OK, so the "transferable skill set" to managing an LPs money is managing your own money. Got it...very "transferable". Some people here are absolutely retarded; it's truly the blind leading the blind.
LMAO idk why you got MS
Agreed... least transferable skill set in the world. Analyzing markets is multifaceted and interesting for sure. You are highly capable at analysis... but like that has ZERO applicability to any other W2 job in the world, and way too many overconfident people thinking it has any direct linkage with actually running any type of business, which is a totally different skillset. Sure maybe you can sit around and analyze the strength of the moats of your biz, industry, and the financial statements... uhh thats like 10% of operating a biz at best.
Yes highly transferable
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. The reality is that if the HF world works out, it is all great. But if not, the recruitment market is not as forgiving as it is for bankers or PE personnel.
And if the only "transferable" thing is liquid cash then well.... we could say that about pretty much anything that yields cash.
Yeah it's nuts lol. did the buyside thing for a few years before switching to fundraising. best move of my career i hated equity investing as an actual job to wake up to everyday. I have maybe 3 friends in seats that i think that are attractive on the buyside and even then i wouldn't go for it, personally
When you say fundraising - do you mean BD/IR? Or something else?
Hours, comp, do you like what you do?
Can I PM?
How do you ID your COS role?
Vibe code an app and make millions
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