1/29/10

Hi,

So, pending a bid (which I think I'm close to getting, but who knows), I was wondering if joining a fraternity will help me at all for getting a job or if they are all a waste of time. For example, I know people within my fraternity (as in my chapter) would probably help me out if I wanted to get a job, but since I go to a non-target, I highly doubt many, if any, are at places I want to be at. On the flip-side, however, lets say a dude at Wharton, who is part of the same fraternity but not chapter, sees my resume. Would he take into consideration that I'm a fellow fraternity "brother", or would they not really give a shit since its not the same chapter?

Also, just in general, do you think frats are a waste of time or are they a good experience?

Comments (134)

1/29/10

You won't have a good Fraternity experience if your primary consideration is whether it'll help you get a job. You should pledge a fraternity if the chapter is something you want to be a part of.

Financial Modeling

2/1/10

-

  • Child Please.
1/29/10

No. Doing a frat was a huge waste of time and money at school, specifically at a non target. If you want the peak of your accomplishments to be in school, go for it. It's a little bit of a blanket statement but from what I experienced I wished I would have taken that time and put it to use elsewhere.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equit...

1/29/10
westfald:

No. Doing a frat was a huge waste of time and money at school, specifically at a non target. If you want the peak of your accomplishments to be in school, go for it. It's a little bit of a blanket statement but from what I experienced I wished I would have taken that time and put it to use elsewhere.

If all you did was party, then I see what you're saying. But many people gain serious leadership skills and experience valuable personal growth in a fraternity. Yeah I know that sounded corney, but 'tis true.

1/29/10
westfald:

No. Doing a frat was a huge waste of time and money at school, specifically at a non target.

I would like to disagree, in fact you can argue almost the opposite. If you are at a target and have added fraternal connections, that's just a bonus. You already have a leg up b/c you go to a better school and have recruiters come to you. On the flip side, you can join a fraternity at a non-target state school and be surrounded by a bunch of guys whom have parents/family that have potentially done very well for themselves. This is a generalized statement, but many people that join fraternities are either one of two things: 1) they enjoy the male comradely and the social aspect, 2) their father did it and/or it is of social stature. Unless you join the shittiest fraternity ever, you will likely be surrounded by kids who have some cash to burn and respectable families.

All being said, I'm obviously a proponent of fraternities. I think that it does teach you great leadership skills and how to manage people. If you can control a chapter of +80 guys that are all 19 and 20-somethings, then why can't you manage professionals. I know that in my interview process, I always drew examples of leadership from my time in my chapter.

Finally, if you want to join just for connections then stay on the sideline. You will add no value and no one will like you if you are there to try to leach off some kids second uncles friends brother who is an MD at Morgan Stanley.

1/29/10

You will learn how to love Abercrombie & Fitch and drive a big truck with loud pipes

Best Response
1/29/10
SarahP:

You will learn how to love Abercrombie & Fitch and drive a big truck with loud pipes

If the "frat" wears abercrombie or hollister, it's not a real fraternity, it's a homosexual night club= AVOID AT ALL COSTS

if it is a real fraternity, members will be wearing polo ralph lauren or brooks brothers.
that's when you know to join- good networking

1/29/10

+1 to the leadership statement above. My biggest "story" in interviews was fraternity based.

1/29/10

The only reason to join a frat:

Actually, that's reason enough. Go for it.

1/29/10

I think some time in a frat would do you good, you seem depressed from your other posts and your screenname

1/29/10

Seriously, I would not join a frat just for the networking purposes. Except maybe the business ones like AKPsi and DSP, or something like that. Are you referring to these or social fraternities?

I was also able to leverage my experiences as president of my fraternity, running events, volunteering, risk management, dealing with university administrators, etc. during interviews. I also greatly enjoyed the people I was in the fraternity with and my time in it. I know friends who joined other frats, didn't like people and just went inactive. No one really even acknowledged them, and I can't imagine got much out of it.

Hug It Out

1/29/10
Ari_Gold:

Seriously, I would not join a frat just for the networking purposes. Except maybe the business ones like AKPsi and DSP, or something like that. Are you referring to these or social fraternities?

I was also able to leverage my experiences as president of my fraternity, running events, volunteering, risk management, dealing with university administrators, etc. during interviews. I also greatly enjoyed the people I was in the fraternity with and my time in it. I know friends who joined other frats, didn't like people and just went inactive. No one really even acknowledged them, and I can't imagine got much out of it.

Nah, I'm thinking about joining a social one. Again, a lot of you guys seem to be thinking about targets, but I'm at a non-target, so again, I'm wondering if this will help me at all in this regard. Once again, I'll use the example of if a Wharton grad who went to the same frat but not chapter as me looks at my resume if he may give me a slight bump since we were part of the same organization, even though we're not in the same chapter.

As for why I'm joining it. It can potentially help me network (some kids have connections, like this one guy whose dad was a partner at PWC, but probably not in i-banking/consulting), and because one of my friends joined this fraternity and I think it really helped him come out of his shell, so I'm hoping I can too. Plus, I hope to gain leadership and all that good stuff, and this seems like a decent social frat since they have the highest GPA on campus and whatnot. So some of you expressed concern that I'll be an A&F wearing d-bag, but there seem to be lots of different personalities in this fraternity, which I enjoy.

So yeah. Hope that clarifies my question.

1/30/10
ibankingreject:

one of my friends joined this fraternity and I think it really helped him come out of his shell, so I'm hoping I can too.

Listen, kid. A couple hits of ecstasy will take care of that for you, and you won't have to yell, "Thank you sir may I have another" while some closet queen paddles your ass.

1/29/10

i was not in a fraternity. frankly, i did not think i needed a bunch of people to confirm my identity and i certainly did not need the extra cost or submission associated with being a frat boy. Especially when i could enjoy the parties by way of friends or go to someone elses off campus open party. Yeah, that is a bit harsh. I know. Its just my lone wolf chewing on a raw bone, so take a grain of salt if you like.

Also, everyone keeps talking about the many leadership experiences, but there are few set positions in a fraternity to spin on a resume versus the number of members who just participate and socialize. I would say that makes these opportunities limited. i get the feeling you want to do this beyond just networking and leadership, IBREJECT and that youre just looking for something to tip the scales. i say go for it. you cant do everything for some future job.

as to your question regarding the wharton example...the answer is maybe. if all other aspects of your resume are in order, and its a close decision then i think youre likely to get the tip. of course theres a much stronger bond for same chapters, but frat boys tend to look out for each other across the nation - ive seen it in action.

1/29/10
wintonheights:

Also, everyone keeps talking about the many leadership experiences, but there are few set positions in a fraternity to spin on a resume versus the number of members who just participate and socialize. I would say that makes these opportunities limited. i get the feeling you want to do this beyond just networking and leadership, IBREJECT and that youre just looking for something to tip the scales. i say go for it. you cant do everything for some future job.

See here is your problem, you were not in one. You are incorrect with regard to positions and their ability to create leadership qualities. Yes, there can only be one President and one Vice President, etc. Where you argument becomes invalid is the simple fact that you have never been motivated by 80 people to do anything. There will always be those who just go for the social aspect, but if you care you will gain leadership qualities.

Think about it for half a second. Lets compare a fraternity to a bee hive. Can you have 80/80 members being leaders? or do you need some worker bees? I can promise you that if you feel passionate about the fraternity and its well being, you will develop leadership qualities.

All that being said, the OP probably doesn't need to rush if he is asking us if its "good for networking."

1/29/10
1/29/10

Yes, I wouldn't go into the fraternity with the I'm here to network mentality- everyone will think you are a deutsche-bag.
If, however, it comes up that one of your fraternity friends has connections to a particular company, it won't hurt to inquire further.

1/29/10

If you're religious at all, one compromise may be a religious organization. When the occasional Methodist sees "Wesley Foundation" on my resume, they usually smile and ask a few questions.

There's usually also a lot of leadership opportunities- especially if you're really passionate about what you believe in and you join a more moderate organization. Sometimes my religious work crops up when people ask me about leadership experiences, and discussing work involved with a reasonably moderate religious organization from a secular perspective isn't really taboo in an interview.

1/30/10

I would definitely say to join a fraternity but like other comments to do it for the social aspects as well. At my school, >75% of the people going into investment banking are greek. One house even had more than both the business fraternities combined this past year.

I've had alums in IB/PE look over my resume and hook me up with interviews.

And about PENN, their strongest fraternities are local chapters due to what happened there in the 90s, so don't count on that chapter helping out.

1/30/10

Just don't let the drinking interfere with your grades and you'll be fine.

1/30/10

Well, despite being told that "(I) have a 95% chance of getting a bid", I didn't end up getting one, so this is all a moot point now. So, now that my ECs are going to suck unless I somehow manage to get a leadership position and I'm not going to have any fun whatsoever in college, I'm going to have to settle on being an accountant for the rest of my life and never making 6 figures while doing remedial shit over and over again. My life is awesome!

1/30/10

if your as negative and depressing-sounding in real life as you are on these boards, no wonder you didnt get a bid.

be more positive and upbeat about things. and for gods sake, change your user name - you're not a banking reject yet, but with that attitude you're well on your way there.

1/30/10
twilightgirl:

if your as negative and depressing-sounding in real life as you are on these boards, no wonder you didnt get a bid.

be more positive and upbeat about things. and for gods sake, change your user name - you're not a banking reject yet, but with that attitude you're well on your way there.

agreed. dude, youre a college sophomore. i didnt get a job in banking til my full-time offer. even if you dont get a FT offer out of college, you still have plenty of chances to get in. gotta work on the attitude, and youll be surprised at how many doors open up if ya do.

1/30/10
dew2229:
twilightgirl:

if your as negative and depressing-sounding in real life as you are on these boards, no wonder you didnt get a bid.

be more positive and upbeat about things. and for gods sake, change your user name - you're not a banking reject yet, but with that attitude you're well on your way there.

agreed. dude, youre a college sophomore. i didnt get a job in banking til my full-time offer. even if you dont get a FT offer out of college, you still have plenty of chances to get in. gotta work on the attitude, and youll be surprised at how many doors open up if ya do.

Trust me man, I don't enjoy being negative but there's a reason why I am this way. You have no idea how many times I've worked my ass off in my life only to come up with nothing. You have no idea how many times I've gone out of my way to help people out only to get tossed aside when I needed their help. So far, all of my goals in life haven't fallen through. By this time in my life, I expected to get into an ivy league school or respectable state school like Haas/Ross, secured some sort of finance or other job, get an investment banking internship, even at a MM. What are my results? A piece of shit state school that I'm embarrassed to tell people I go to (and btw, I sacrificed any social life outside of clubs in high school to get into the good schools, but of course, none of that effort went anywhere), got rejected from EVERY bank I contacted for an internship (TWICE! I tried last year...nothing, I try this year...nothing), my relatives have been absolutely useless in terms of getting me an internship, my school has no alumni database, so I can't contact any alums in banking, and I am not getting a 4.0 even at said piece of shit school. Now, my one hope for having a social life and maybe turning around my college career has gone to shit even though, again, I only had a 5% chance of not getting in and despite the fact that I payed for a couple of those fuckers' dinners while none of the other recruits did.

I've worked my ass off and nothing has worked out, and I'm probably killing myself on the inside with all the stress I'm putting on myself. I know I'm venting right now, but my life seriously so far has been one fucking disaster after another despite the fact that I try to be a good person (help others out) and that I try my best. So yeah, I am negative, but please understand that there's a reason why I am this way. At this point, I really don't know what to do with myself and my life. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them, but I'm really wondering whether I should just accept the fact that I'm a dumbass/failure and just move on with my life instead of chasing lofty dreams that I'm obviously incapable of attaining.

1/31/10
ibankingreject:
dew2229:
twilightgirl:

if your as negative and depressing-sounding in real life as you are on these boards, no wonder you didnt get a bid.

be more positive and upbeat about things. and for gods sake, change your user name - you're not a banking reject yet, but with that attitude you're well on your way there.

agreed. dude, youre a college sophomore. i didnt get a job in banking til my full-time offer. even if you dont get a FT offer out of college, you still have plenty of chances to get in. gotta work on the attitude, and youll be surprised at how many doors open up if ya do.

Trust me man, I don't enjoy being negative but there's a reason why I am this way. You have no idea how many times I've worked my ass off in my life only to come up with nothing. You have no idea how many times I've gone out of my way to help people out only to get tossed aside when I needed their help. So far, all of my goals in life haven't fallen through. By this time in my life, I expected to get into an ivy league school or respectable state school like Haas/Ross, secured some sort of finance or other job, get an investment banking internship, even at a MM. What are my results? A piece of shit state school that I'm embarrassed to tell people I go to (and btw, I sacrificed any social life outside of clubs in high school to get into the good schools, but of course, none of that effort went anywhere), got rejected from EVERY bank I contacted for an internship (TWICE! I tried last year...nothing, I try this year...nothing), my relatives have been absolutely useless in terms of getting me an internship, my school has no alumni database, so I can't contact any alums in banking, and I am not getting a 4.0 even at said piece of shit school. Now, my one hope for having a social life and maybe turning around my college career has gone to shit even though, again, I only had a 5% chance of not getting in and despite the fact that I payed for a couple of those fuckers' dinners while none of the other recruits did.

I've worked my ass off and nothing has worked out, and I'm probably killing myself on the inside with all the stress I'm putting on myself. I know I'm venting right now, but my life seriously so far has been one fucking disaster after another despite the fact that I try to be a good person (help others out) and that I try my best. So yeah, I am negative, but please understand that there's a reason why I am this way. At this point, I really don't know what to do with myself and my life. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them, but I'm really wondering whether I should just accept the fact that I'm a dumbass/failure and just move on with my life instead of chasing lofty dreams that I'm obviously incapable of attaining.

Dude, why not just try and transfer to a better school if you feel your school's a piece of shit?

2/1/10
ibankingreject:
dew2229:
twilightgirl:

if your as negative and depressing-sounding in real life as you are on these boards, no wonder you didnt get a bid.

be more positive and upbeat about things. and for gods sake, change your user name - you're not a banking reject yet, but with that attitude you're well on your way there.

agreed. dude, youre a college sophomore. i didnt get a job in banking til my full-time offer. even if you dont get a FT offer out of college, you still have plenty of chances to get in. gotta work on the attitude, and youll be surprised at how many doors open up if ya do.

Trust me man, I don't enjoy being negative but there's a reason why I am this way. You have no idea how many times I've worked my ass off in my life only to come up with nothing. You have no idea how many times I've gone out of my way to help people out only to get tossed aside when I needed their help. So far, all of my goals in life haven't fallen through. By this time in my life, I expected to get into an ivy league school or respectable state school like Haas/Ross, secured some sort of finance or other job, get an investment banking internship, even at a MM. What are my results? A piece of shit state school that I'm embarrassed to tell people I go to (and btw, I sacrificed any social life outside of clubs in high school to get into the good schools, but of course, none of that effort went anywhere), got rejected from EVERY bank I contacted for an internship (TWICE! I tried last year...nothing, I try this year...nothing), my relatives have been absolutely useless in terms of getting me an internship, my school has no alumni database, so I can't contact any alums in banking, and I am not getting a 4.0 even at said piece of shit school. Now, my one hope for having a social life and maybe turning around my college career has gone to shit even though, again, I only had a 5% chance of not getting in and despite the fact that I payed for a couple of those fuckers' dinners while none of the other recruits did.

I've worked my ass off and nothing has worked out, and I'm probably killing myself on the inside with all the stress I'm putting on myself. I know I'm venting right now, but my life seriously so far has been one fucking disaster after another despite the fact that I try to be a good person (help others out) and that I try my best. So yeah, I am negative, but please understand that there's a reason why I am this way. At this point, I really don't know what to do with myself and my life. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to them, but I'm really wondering whether I should just accept the fact that I'm a dumbass/failure and just move on with my life instead of chasing lofty dreams that I'm obviously incapable of attaining.

IBankingReject- you sound like a fucking loser
or at least you have the mentality of one.

why do you think you didn't get into the school of your choice, despite busting your ass in high school?
why do you think you got dinged from the fraternity of your choice?
why do you think not one bank has granted you an interview?

It's b/c your negativity and bullshit self-deprecation is making people think you are a fucking loser.

You won't enjoy any success until you adjust your attitude.

also, may I ask what "Crappy" state school you go to? If you busted your ass in high school, I assume you got good grades and test scores, so I bet you go to a respectable university.

2/2/10

post deleted...beating a dead horse too much.

2/3/10
ibankingreject:

post deleted...beating a dead horse too much.

too late, I read it.

So your school is ranked in the US News 100's huh.

Let me try to guess it:

let's see: I assume you are from new york or new england so i'm going to guess it's a less reputable state school in the northeast somewhere... hmmm, US News only ranks schools up to 128 and lumps the remainder into tier 3/4...

so looking at the rankings 100-128, my two best bets are:

1) UMass-Amherst
2) SUNY-Buffalo

Is one of these right?

2/3/10
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:
ibankingreject:

post deleted...beating a dead horse too much.

too late, I read it.

So your school is ranked in the US News 100's huh.

Let me try to guess it:

let's see: I assume you are from new york or new england so i'm going to guess it's a less reputable state school in the northeast somewhere... hmmm, US News only ranks schools up to 128 and lumps the remainder into tier 3/4...

so looking at the rankings 100-128, my two best bets are:

1) UMass-Amherst
2) SUNY-Buffalo

Is one of these right?

Not even close. I'm from the west coast, not the NE.

And actually, I kind of want to know this, how bad does it look to take classes P/F? I probably won't take any more and I definitely am never dropping a class again, so if I just take everything graded and do well in those classes from now on, will banks forgive my initial stupidity?

2/3/10
ibankingreject:
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:
ibankingreject:

post deleted...beating a dead horse too much.

too late, I read it.

So your school is ranked in the US News 100's huh.

Let me try to guess it:

let's see: I assume you are from new york or new england so i'm going to guess it's a less reputable state school in the northeast somewhere... hmmm, US News only ranks schools up to 128 and lumps the remainder into tier 3/4...

so looking at the rankings 100-128, my two best bets are:

1) UMass-Amherst
2) SUNY-Buffalo

Is one of these right?

Not even close. I'm from the west coast, not the NE.

And actually, I kind of want to know this, how bad does it look to take classes P/F? I probably won't take any more and I definitely am never dropping a class again, so if I just take everything graded and do well in those classes from now on, will banks forgive my initial stupidity?

Fine:

Washington State?
Oregon?
University of San Diego?
Arizona State?

2/3/10
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:
ibankingreject:
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:
ibankingreject:

post deleted...beating a dead horse too much.

too late, I read it.

So your school is ranked in the US News 100's huh.

Let me try to guess it:

let's see: I assume you are from new york or new england so i'm going to guess it's a less reputable state school in the northeast somewhere... hmmm, US News only ranks schools up to 128 and lumps the remainder into tier 3/4...

so looking at the rankings 100-128, my two best bets are:

1) UMass-Amherst
2) SUNY-Buffalo

Is one of these right?

Not even close. I'm from the west coast, not the NE.

And actually, I kind of want to know this, how bad does it look to take classes P/F? I probably won't take any more and I definitely am never dropping a class again, so if I just take everything graded and do well in those classes from now on, will banks forgive my initial stupidity?

Fine:

Washington State?
Oregon?
University of San Diego?
Arizona State?

It is one of those. Good call.

1/30/10

^^^ Whoa, whoa, whoa, you really need to calm down man. your only a sophomore. Give it a chance, you should not be feeling this way. Here's some frat facts (from my experience): 1) It gets old after the first year & a half 2) Even though your "brothers" with all these guys, you still break off into groups of four or five guys and hangout/party/whatever just like any other clique at school 3) There were plenty of guys who were still introverted & I never saw them after living in the house 4) Doing accounting, if your not pulling all A's with nothing going on, a frat probably wouldn't be the best choice

In terms of getting a job, it's tough. I tried helping this Dartmouth kid w/ damn near straight A's , staked resume. I have a good friend who's a VP of deriv trading at MS, and she passed on him even with my recommendation mainly because he was a sophomore, so keep looking.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equit...

1/30/10
westfald:

^^^ Whoa, whoa, whoa, you really need to calm down man. your only a sophomore. Give it a chance, you should not be feeling this way. Here's some frat facts (from my experience): 1) It gets old after the first year & a half 2) Even though your "brothers" with all these guys, you still break off into groups of four or five guys and hangout/party/whatever just like any other clique at school 3) There were plenty of guys who were still introverted & I never saw them after living in the house 4) Doing accounting, if your not pulling all A's with nothing going on, a frat probably wouldn't be the best choice

In terms of getting a job, it's tough. I tried helping this Dartmouth kid w/ damn near straight A's , staked resume. I have a good friend who's a VP of deriv trading at MS, and she passed on him even with my recommendation mainly because he was a sophomore, so keep looking.

Haha I guess man. Sorry, I just needed to vent all that and get that off my chest. I'm not going to lie though, I've been pretty upset/depressed with how things have been going so far (literally, nothing has gone according to my master plan), but I suppose that there is no point in crying over spilled milk now either.

At what point though do you think that I should give up on banking if nothing works out? The fact is that it is damn competitive and not everyone gets it. Given what has transpired so far, I need to face facts and realize that there is a greater than 75% chance that its not gonna happen, but when do you think I'll know for sure that its time to call it quits?

1/30/10

Buck the fuck up, man, and get a hold of yourself. This whole "woe is me" deal is getting real old real fast. Number 1, as has been pointed out to you many many many times thus far, you are a SOPHOMORE! As in still having a fucking "1" as the first digit of your age. As in "was ditching high-school PE three years ago."

Here's my path - I just got my first full time banking job at age 33 after 2 years of full-time volunteer work, 6 years in commercial property management, 8 consecutive dings from full time b-schools, attended a top-7 b-school as a part time MBA, a summer associate internship where I didn't get an offer, a position at a boutique where I worked my ass off for 6 months for FREE only to leave when it was clear the operation was falling apart, and a 6 month stint as a controller for a small manufacturing company.

Shut your incessantly yapping maw, get good grades, make some damn friends, involve yourself in this world that we call home and stop bitching about how nothing works out. Honestly, listening to you talk about your fucking "master plan" not working to perfection at age nine-fucking-teen is too much for me to bear.

2/1/10
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:

Yes, I wouldn't go into the fraternity with the I'm here to network mentality- everyone will think you are a deutsche-bag.
If, however, it comes up that one of your fraternity friends has connections to a particular company, it won't hurt to inquire further.

jhoratio:

Buck the fuck up, man, and get a hold of yourself. This whole "woe is me" deal is getting real old real fast. Number 1, as has been pointed out to you many many many times thus far, you are a SOPHOMORE! As in still having a fucking "1" as the first digit of your age. As in "was ditching high-school PE three years ago."

Here's my path - I just got my first full time banking job at age 33 after 2 years of full-time volunteer work, 6 years in commercial property management, 8 consecutive dings from full time b-schools, attended a top-7 b-school as a part time MBA, a summer associate internship where I didn't get an offer, a position at a boutique where I worked my ass off for 6 months for FREE only to leave when it was clear the operation was falling apart, and a 6 month stint as a controller for a small manufacturing company.

Shut your incessantly yapping maw, get good grades, make some damn friends, involve yourself in this world that we call home and stop bitching about how nothing works out. Honestly, listening to you talk about your fucking "master plan" not working to perfection at age nine-fucking-teen is too much for me to bear.

What they said. The thought of joining a group solely for its connections pisses me off because you're basically saying that you are using them for whatever advantage you can get out of them. Do you think I would want to have you as a brother? Fuck off. Friends aren't made for the purposes of using them, and friends for the sake of being friends seems like what you need in order to stay sane right now.

  • Child Please.
1/31/10

Any opportunity to build your network can help.

2/1/10

Man, you sound depressed. College years are supposed to be most memorable days of your life! In that long-ass rant of yours, I saw a lot of things that were fundamentally wrong.

Firstly, at your age, if what you're doing seems like a "sacrifice", then you shouldn't be doing it. You do a major or a club activity because you like it, not because you think it's going to set you up for IBD. If doing something seems like sacrifice, then you're probably not going to be very good at it.

Secondly, you don't rush or try to make friends because it's going to help you career-wise. There's a specific term for what you're doing - it's called networking (it seems like you're making a meal of that too though). Network contacts are not people you can share your happiest moments with or just relax and grab a beer with. Make some friends!

Lastly, I seriously think you need to stop worrying about the future. You're a sophomore. Just make sure you get some work experience this summer (doesnt have to be IBD...just something related to your interests) and do well at school.

2/1/10

If you're in such a state of negativity, I think you should consult.

I did not know I wanted to work in finance until I was, what, 21? And I have had many setbacks, too, but a positive attitude towards life makes it more likely that things will turn around.

As for the frat debate, I'd have said definitely join. It's too much fun to miss out.

2/1/10

I personally just finished going through the SA interview process and without the help of my frat brothers on the street I would not have even gotten an interview. Coming from a non-target, any contacts you have are helpful.

That being said, if you are joining a fraternity for networking, you are going to get smashed. At least in the south, you need to join a fraternity for the people and the parties, not a job because you will hate the entire pledgeship process.

Financial Modeling

2/3/10

This could be the worst thread in the history of WSO.

God knows what banks will do, dude. Just work hard, get good grades, get a life, network with bankers, meet people and commit yourself to the process and everything will be fine.

2/3/10

To Affirmative_: Dude, why does it matter? Why are you trying so hard to guess his school? University of Washington (State) in the 50-60's I believe.

To OP: Seriously. How did you "sacrifice" and work hard in High School and then only end up in the 100's? Hey man. No need to be so depressed. There are always chances in life. You're young, a U.S. citizen, and living in USA. Opportunities are abundant.

Hug It Out

2/3/10
Ari_Gold:

To Affirmative_: Dude, why does it matter? Why are you trying so hard to guess his school? University of Washington (State) in the 50-60's I believe.

To OP: Seriously. How did you "sacrifice" and work hard in High School and then only end up in the 100's? Hey man. No need to be so depressed. There are always chances in life. You're young, a U.S. citizen, and living in USA. Opportunities are abundant.

Because I want to.

Also Washington State is in the 100's.

I'm going to guess that OP goes to San Diego.

2/3/10

its Oregon.. he usta have it up but took it down.
case closed

2/3/10
dew2229:

its Oregon.. he usta have it up but took it down.
case closed

fffffffuuuuuu! Mods, please delete this thread!!! I deleted that for a reason!!!

2/3/10

Oregon isn't that embarrassing a name to have on a resume.. geez.

u of san diego, wash st or arizona st all have less cachet

at least oregon is associated with nike

2/3/10

please dont just put the original poster on blast. try to be somewhat constructive. we have no idea about other things going on in this persons life right now or their personal history. a lot of people are on edge in this economy and fragile. no need to push them off with hard line taunts and degradation.

IBREJECT. you do need to take it easy tho. your posts worry me a bit. like some are saying, you seem exceptionally hard on yourself and potentially depressed. maybe you should talk to someone at school about it?

my advice: remember that some of lifes greatest lessons are learned in defeat and success is very often about persistence. hang in there. focus on what you can control, and do the best you can day by day.

and you should always dream big, cause if you fall short youll still be much further ahead than where you came from. i know theres often a harsh reality to buck up against (i dont think this applies to you tho, your school is decent and youre putting in the effort...tho it maybe a bit misguided) and some may say that im being glib, but there are a lot of geniuses who had it easy and never amounted to anything. there is no substitute for hard work.

2/3/10

haha this is getting really funny

why so serious IBreject?

2/3/10
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:

haha this is getting really funny

why so serious IBreject?

No shiatsu this morning :(

But not seriously, I really didn't want that info leaked. Its a privacy issue as its going to be really easy now for people to ID me, especially since I was thinking about posting my resume so that people can help me out. So seriously, if you all don't mind, please either delete this thread or let it die for my privacy's sake. I'll PM/feel free to PM me as I'll be willing to continue any other convo in private, but I really don't want this info out there for anyone to see.

2/3/10

Exact reason why I went Greek. I came to my large southern state school with only a few kids from my high school that I barely ever talked to, all the hot girls were in sororities. Pledged a top house, got my shit kicked for a semester, and haven't looked back since. Easily one of the best decisions I've ever made.

2/3/10

Just be careful about the frat you join, a lot of them are douchebags and will do nothing for your social, personal, or professional life.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

2/3/10
D M:

Just be careful about the frat you join, a lot of them are douchebags and will do nothing for your social, personal, or professional life.

Yeah, you gotta talk to people at your school and find out which frats are the good ones. Not all frats are great. But find the right one and you're set.

2/3/10

True, but there are other reasons to join besides social ones. Yes, that's usually the main reason, but I'm proud to say my chapter really prided itself on character, academics, while also being top house. Now, I did go to a small school, so I never quite had the wild-ass SEC frat experience.

If you do go Greek, be fratty and blah blah, all that good stuff, just don't lose yourself or become an elitist cunt. And don't let in hurt your grades (much easier said than done).

2/3/10
swagon:

And don't let in hurt your grades (much easier said than done).

This is the main problem. It will hurt your grades (from what I've heard), but I'd still say it's worth it. I'd rather have an amazing college experience with tons of memories and friends even if it means having a slightly less GPA. You're only an undergraduate once. GPA doesn't really matter after a certain level anyways.

2/3/10
JDawg:
swagon:

And don't let in hurt your grades (much easier said than done).

This is the main problem. It will hurt your grades (from what I've heard), but I'd still say it's worth it. I'd rather have an amazing college experience with tons of memories and friends even if it means having a slightly less GPA. You're only an undergraduate once. GPA doesn't really matter after a certain level anyways.

Where it gets really tough is when you have to balance school with networking from a nontarget, and if you have an internship during school or even just some major extracurriculars, then any significant fraternity involvement will probably require sacrifices from other said obligations...there's only 24 hours in a day - learn time management and discipline as early as possible. Try to study as much as you can, and as efficiently as you can, after class during the weekdays when people won't be doing as much socially. Wish I could go back and implement that strategy more effectively. Of course study finance so you don't have to spend time learning it for interviews and internships, that'd just be a damn nightmare on top of everything.

Get to know your pledge brothers as well as you can given your time constraints, you'll be so damn glad you did at graduation and beyond. At the very least, focus on a few key pledge bros you can become great friends with. Also, try to garner respect early in pledgeship. Like the superbad quote says "people don't forget!" so don't puke on a brother or piss your pants drunk and pass out in front of sorority quad during pledgeship.

2/3/10
swagon:
JDawg:
swagon:

And don't let in hurt your grades (much easier said than done).

This is the main problem. It will hurt your grades (from what I've heard), but I'd still say it's worth it. I'd rather have an amazing college experience with tons of memories and friends even if it means having a slightly less GPA. You're only an undergraduate once. GPA doesn't really matter after a certain level anyways.

Where it gets really tough is when you have to balance school with networking from a nontarget, and if you have an internship during school or even just some major extracurriculars, then any significant fraternity involvement will probably require sacrifices from other said obligations...there's only 24 hours in a day - learn time management and discipline as early as possible. Try to study as much as you can, and as efficiently as you can, after class during the weekdays when people won't be doing as much socially. Wish I could go back and implement that strategy more effectively. Of course study finance so you don't have to spend time learning it for interviews and internships, that'd just be a damn nightmare on top of everything.

Get to know your pledge brothers as well as you can given your time constraints, you'll be so damn glad you did at graduation and beyond. At the very least, focus on a few key pledge bros you can become great friends with. Also, try to garner respect early in pledgeship. Like the superbad quote says "people don't forget!" so don't puke on a brother or piss your pants drunk and pass out in front of sorority quad during pledgeship.

To your last line...you didn't pledge a real frat if that wasn't inevitable.

2/3/10
wantajob:

To your last line...you didn't pledge a real frat if that wasn't inevitable.

Hey, cool bro, thanks for your contribution.

2/3/10

Your pledge semester will result in a 3.0 at best

2/3/10

Raptor.45:
Your pledge semester will result in a 3.0 at best

My GPA is still on life support after my pledge semester...granted it's still the 2nd semester of my Freshman year...

2/3/10

I joined a frat last year and I have mixed feelings about it. Yes, you do get to party with some really hot girls and get your dick wet. That is true. The problem is, there is a serious lack of seriousness among most of my fraternity. A lot of them smoke/drink all the time and just fuck around with school. But because their dad is CEO of some company, they are fine. Some guys are fine, but a lot of them are in fact douchebags. Maybe I just joined a slightly more douchy one.

2/3/10
Thedss:

I joined a frat last year and I have mixed feelings about it. Yes, you do get to party with some really hot girls and get your dick wet. That is true. The problem is, there is a serious lack of seriousness among most of my fraternity. A lot of them smoke/drink all the time and just fuck around with school. But because their dad is CEO of some company, they are fine. Some guys are fine, but a lot of them are in fact douchebags. Maybe I just joined a slightly more douchy one.

umm...get jobs and/or connections from the dads of your frat bros?

2/3/10

I joined a frat, and i'm not sure it was worth it.

Then again, German fraternities are a bit "rougher around the edges" than American ones.
If you think US frats drink vigorously think again; much harder disciplining in the first semester e.g. no personal cell phone; you have to participate in fencing duels which means training on a daily basis - plus you're quite likely to graduate with a scar on your face (still the mark of the conservative, educated elite in Germany).

2/3/10

Sounds like we need some German frat stories

2/3/10

Seriously please elaborate on German Frat Life. That sounds ridiculous.

Also, in case anyone hasn't seen this site it is pretty funny: www.TotalFratMove.com

2/3/10

FinanceStudent28:
Seriously please elaborate on German Frat Life. That sounds ridiculous.

I'll let Mark Twain do the talking:

One day in the interest of science my agent obtained permission to bring me to the students` dueling-place.
(...)
It was observable that the young gentlemen neither bowed to nor spoke with students whose caps differed in color from their own. This did not mean hostility, but only an armed neutrality. It was considered that a person could strike harder in the duel, and with a more earnest interest, if he had never been in a condition of comradeship with his antagonist; therefore, comradeship between the corps was not permitted. At intervals the presidents of the five corps have a cold official intercourse with each other, but nothing further. For example, when the regular dueling-day of one of the corps approaches, its president calls for volunteers from among the membership to offer battle; three or more respond--but there must not be less than three; the president lays their names before the other presidents, with the request that they furnish antagonists for these challengers from among their corps. This is promptly done. It chanced that the present occasion was the battle-day of the Red Cap Corps. They were the challengers, and certain caps of other colors had volunteered to meet them. The students fight duels in the room which I have described, TWO DAYS IN EVERY WEEK DURING SEVEN AND A HALF OR EIGHT MONTHS IN EVERY YEAR. This custom had continued in Germany two hundred and fifty years.

...

The combatants were watching each other with alert eyes; a perfect stillness, a breathless interest reigned. I felt that I was going to see some wary work. But not so. The instant the word was given, the two apparitions sprang forward and began to rain blows down upon each other with such lightning rapidity that I could not quite tell whether I saw the swords or only flashes they made in the air; the rattling din of these blows as they struck steel or paddings was something wonderfully stirring, and they were struck with such terrific force that I could not understand why the opposing sword was not beaten down under the assault. Presently, in the midst of the sword-flashes, I saw a handful of hair skip into the air as if it had lain loose on the victim`s head and a breath of wind had puffed it suddenly away.

The seconds cried "Halt!" and knocked up the combatants` swords with their own. The duelists sat down; a student official stepped forward, examined the wounded head and touched the place with a sponge once or twice; the surgeon came and turned back the hair from the wound-- and revealed a crimson gash two or three inches long, and proceeded to bind an oval piece of leather and a bunch of lint over it; the tally-keeper stepped up and tallied one for the opposition in his book.

Then the duelists took position again; a small stream of blood was flowing down the side of the injured man`s head, and over his shoulder and down his body to the floor, but he did not seem to mind this. The word was given, and they plunged at each other as fiercely as before; once more the blows rained and rattled and flashed; every few moments the quick-eyed seconds would notice that a sword was bent--then they called "Halt!" struck up the contending weapons, and an assisting student straightened the bent one.

The wonderful turmoil went on--presently a bright spark sprung from a blade, and that blade broken in several pieces, sent one of its fragments flying to the ceiling. A new sword was provided and the fight proceeded.

full text:
http://www.classicauthors.net/Twain/trampabroad/tr...
story actually takes place in my hometown!

academic fencing still takes place, more or less exactly as described - it's been following the same set of rules for centuries, so obviously no huge changes are to be expected.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing

2/3/10
24837:

I'll let Mark Twain do the talking:

story actually takes place in my hometown!

Awesome!

2/3/10

as sad as it is i agree 100% with the OP

i transferred and was scared of fucking up 1 of my 4 remaining semesters (whereas if u start freshman year you have much more time to make it up). huge regret

2/3/10

Yea, if you're transferring I'd definitely be careful about a frat. It's a great way to get involved on campus and meet people, but it's also a great way to screw your chances of getting an internship or FT job.

As long as you know the score and make sure you take care of your business, you should be fine joining a frat. Of course, everyone says they're going to do that and most don't.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

2/3/10

I go to a smaller top school, and it really is a mixed bag. Some people love it, some people hate it, and some people are in-between. I think it's a great idea to rush and get a sense of what's out there, but I personally did not join a frat because of the time constraints involved and talking to older students. Unless a frat really jives with you and you can really see yourself as a member of the frat, then I don't think it is a great idea to pledge. Plus, if you have good friends in the frats you can still go to parties and not have to deal with everything else. I also find a lot of people become "consumed" by their fraternity / sorority and don't really have a broader social life, but again it varies from person to person.

2/3/10

I joined a fraternity first semester my freshman year, got a 3.4 during pledging at what I would like to think is an academically credible school, and haven't regretted any of it. The social benefits themselves make it worth it but other benefits exist. I would argue that being in a fraternity helped my GPA. I studied a lot with my fraternity brothers and i definitely think that helped me in the long run. Also, the network you have access to is incredible. Its one thing to contact an alumni from your university, but to contact an alum from your school that was in your fraternity gives you quite a leg up on the competition. My fraternity brother did just that and landed a BB IB summer internship.

2/3/10

The problem with frats is that you rush when you're 18 and almost no one has their shit together at that stage, let alone are thinking about getting into banking. If you're not a total fuckup though, you should absolutely rush.

2/3/10

I do regret not joining a fraternity..

2/3/10

I pledged for a business frat once, and they accepted girls as well since this was a professional frat. The main reason I pledged was to network and make connections with the alumni. However, at the end of the pledging process, I learned that the alumni brothers aren't exactly willing to network much, and I started to feel like I was paying to make friends as well. Plus, it felt like these students had no ambition to do anything other than just making sure they get a regular 9 to 5 job (not that it's bad...just thought there would at least be one person who wanted to not rely only on their career center and break into IB or something from a nontarget.). And the frat had all these directors for the smallest things so that anyone can say they are the director of bullshit. At the end of it, everything felt like bullshit & everyone seemed to be pretentious so I quit before initiation.

I don't regret not joining them, but occasionally, when I run into the students who were pledging with me, they don't even bother saying hi or acknowledging they made eye contact with me. It's like I'm shunned, which just pisses me off cause I was the only one who even ran for pledge class president in the first place (no one wanted the responsibility and they were afraid of having a more stressful pledging experience) and even though I was unsure about joining them, I made sure my pledge class didn't suffer. I did everything I can to make their life easier and prepared them for initiation as much as I can.

Yes, it does look bad when your president quits, but before I started pledging, I actually had travel plans which coincidentally was during the weekend of initiation so I prepared the vice president to take charge for that weekend from the beginning.

I don't know if what I did was wrong, but I don't regret any of it. To me, it was a fun experience as the pledge class president. I loved helping everyone, listening to their concerns, organizing everything & etc. I just didn't want to pay to join something that felt like it wasn't worth my time.

2/3/10
June Rose:

I pledged for a business frat once, and they accepted girls as well since this was a professional frat. The main reason I pledged was to network and make connections with the alumni. However, at the end of the pledging process, I learned that the alumni brothers aren't exactly willing to network much, and I started to feel like I was paying to make friends as well. Plus, it felt like these students had no ambition to do anything other than just making sure they get a regular 9 to 5 job (not that it's bad...just thought there would at least be one person who wanted to not rely only on their career center and break into IB or something from a nontarget.). And the frat had all these directors for the smallest things so that anyone can say they are the director of bullshit. At the end of it, everything felt like bullshit & everyone seemed to be pretentious so I quit before initiation.

I don't regret not joining them, but occasionally, when I run into the students who were pledging with me, they don't even bother saying hi or acknowledging they made eye contact with me. It's like I'm shunned, which just pisses me off cause I was the only one who even ran for pledge class president in the first place (no one wanted the responsibility and they were afraid of having a more stressful pledging experience) and even though I was unsure about joining them, I made sure my pledge class didn't suffer. I did everything I can to make their life easier and prepared them for initiation as much as I can.

Yes, it does look bad when your president quits, but before I started pledging, I actually had travel plans which coincidentally was during the weekend of initiation so I prepared the vice president to take charge for that weekend from the beginning.

I don't know if what I did was wrong, but I don't regret any of it. To me, it was a fun experience as the pledge class president. I loved helping everyone, listening to their concerns, organizing everything & etc. I just didn't want to pay to join something that felt like it wasn't worth my time.

I don't think OP is talking about a business frat. Nor a co-ed frat (sorority?).

2/3/10

yea

2/3/10

I'm going to be a senior next semester.

I know frats that let seniors pledge. But should I do it?

I really want to do it for the network. I don't really care a whole lot about the social life, but that is also an excellent addition. I mean, my college life really isn't exciting, I had more fun in high school. So, I definitely wouldn't mind pledging.

2/3/10

^ Blossom got me a job senior year. Totally worth it

2/3/10

AT my school the Greek system blows, sorority girls are ugly and fraternity guys are like all drug dealers/scum bags.

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

2/3/10

The idea that frat shenanigans and "getting pussy" is an integral part of the college experience is very sad.

2/3/10
Warhead:

The idea that frat shenanigans and "getting pussy" is an integral part of the college experience is very sad.

+1

I don't get the appeal either. I had a ton of fun in college, made wonderful memories, and managed to network with people who are now very successful...and not one of us was in a fraternity/sorority.

2/3/10

If you don't care about easy access to easy hot girls, then don't join a frat. My post was directed towards those of us who enjoy that kind of stuff.

2/3/10

Fraternity life is not all black and white. It depends on the school and self-personality. Smaller schools typically have significantly weaker "Greek life" than huge state schools do. I was reminded of this when I (accidentally) visited another chapter of my fraternity in a cross-country trip I did some time ago. They were completely different from us socially and fraternally.

Check out all of the fraternities before pledging to one. Some have very loose pledging programs while others are borderline illegal. Alumni networks are important; that's what differentiates a top house fraternity with one that is struggling to keep things running every year and definitely helps in landing good jobs. It's not worth joining a fraternity you won't get along too well with or benefit from later on down the road. (I did...sadly, it hasn't done much for me.)

(Potential case-in-point: My school's Delta Tau Delta chapter, the same fraternity Jon Stewart is a member of, has the biggest house on campus and most of its members, who usually take on the "softer" degrees, are pretty athletic and have no career problems post-graduation. This is despite some of their brothers destroying this same house over 20 years ago through neglect and a continuous stream of raging parties.)

2/3/10

possibly the first serious post that swagon has taken seriously?? we've hit a soft spot

2/3/10

I regret not doing it. I've decided to pledge a grad chapter.

2/3/10

Never realized how much of a network the greek system is until I was a part of it. No regrets made here, if you have the time to pledge...Do it.

2/3/10

I go to an SEC school where probably >60% of males are in a frat. The networking and cute girls are plentiful, but I just can't stand 80% of the people in them. I do kinda regret not pledging though, the networking you get from a fraternity is top notch.

2/3/10

if you do pledge, do it for the right reasons. networking, alcohol, and pussy are factors but they shouldn't be your main reason.

its more about fit and bringing together like minded individuals. after all, you're gonna be going through hell for at least a semester, and simply doing it for networking is not worth it

2/3/10
idrankmalk:

if you do pledge, do it for the right reasons. networking, alcohol, and pussy are factors but they shouldn't be your main reason.

^Yes.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer

2/3/10

Agree. I think that joining a frat for to get with other guys who are like yourself and share the same values is what it should mostly be about. It's tough to get a social circle like this on your own without pledging a frat. For me, I regretted not doing it in college, which is why I will likely pledge a grad chapter.

2/3/10

Aren't most of the SEC fraternities white-dominated and conservative/traditional though?

Not sure how the organizations with long traditions would accept an Asian.

2/3/10
ULNWI:

Aren't most of the SEC fraternities white-dominated and conservative/traditional though?

Not sure how the organizations with long traditions would accept an Asian.

there's a fraternity out there for everyone at most of the large schools.

some people at my school even started an LGBT co-ed fraternity.

2/3/10

I enjoy being in my fraternity. Not a very ambitious group of guys for the most part, but we have a good time overall. It's still nice to have a group of friends outside the frat though. I do feel as though my friends outside of the Greek system have had a somewhat less focused college experience than me but I understand why somebody would not want to be in Greek life. As our chapter adviser (who I despise with all my being) once told us, it's like running a business. Fuck that guy though. If you have no interest in taking a leadership role in a fraternity, I think you'd be shortchanging yourself by joining. You can go to the parties without being in the frat. However if you're interested in the leadership aspect, then you can get a lot out of it.

2/3/10

girls, booze, crazy adventures, life-long comradery...the best fraternity will always be the deployed military.

"It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer." - Albert Einstein

2/3/10

aicccia:
girls, booze, crazy adventures, life-long comradery...the best fraternity will always be the deployed military.

Congrats on tricking me to hop on the boat to revive an old thread.

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."

2/3/10

I second this -- one of the greatest tragedies of my life.

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."

2/3/10

Had the chance to join and didn't do it due to temporary stay in the US - otherwise... I would say it really depends on the quality of the fraternity and whether you have the time available.

I think it can make sense if you have like-minded people around you if you are in a new location/state.

2/3/10

Check this out before you decide:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/frat-house-doe...

Thank you, sir! May I have another?

2/3/10

That's how a close friend of mine got his job. It's not a terrible option if you can put up with the bullshit, but don't expect it to land you that GS gig you really want.

I personally could not deal with that shit.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

2/3/10

It really depends on the quality of the people in the fraternity; can't really make any conclusions otherwise

2/3/10

Sounds like you're going to have a lame college experience. You're 17/18 bro have a good time. Whether or not you join a fraternity you should still drink, learn how to be social, meet girls, and maintain a good GPA. They don't have to be mutually exlcusive.

2/3/10

Honestly depends on whether you fit in with the house at your campus. Each chapter is different. Don't think too much about the networking, because it's a horrible reason to join a social fraternity. Join if you like the guys and are willing to embrace the meanings/secrets/rituals/etc. that the fraternity offers. It's as much of a growth opportunity as it is a networking or party opportunity.

2/3/10

I don't know what it's like up north, but in the deep south only white people join Greek orgs.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

2/3/10

Look, at UW, the frats are just party houses other than the professional organizations (Engineering frat, etc.). even the 'business frat' is a joke. Just don't expect to make connections in the frat.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

2/3/10

I joined one my freshman year and haven't regretted it since. First off, why wouldn't you want to party in college? Although it may not seem like it now, there are a lot of intangible skills that you stand to gain from the social aspect of fraternity life.

2/3/10

I am an alumni of a top tier fraternity that was highly regarded on my campus. There are a few things you need to take in consideration before entering the Greek system...

First and foremost, what percentage of your campus is Greek? I came from a school with one of the largest Greek systems in the country. Ipso facto, if you weren't in a fraternity/sorority on my campus... Your college experience probably sucked. If your school has a small community you should consider its quality. Not to say that there are smaller Greek communities around that command respect, but they are likely not as good of an experience.

Second, it is not something you should do in the hopes of networking into a job. Of course, anytime you make new contacts or meet large numbers of new people and establish relationships you greatly increase the chances, but I wouldn't hold my breathe. I will admit that if a resume of another fraternity brethren came across my desk I would go out of my way to accelerate him in the process as best I could (assuming credentials are within reason). That being said, you have to recognize the fact that it's unlikely you will run into many fellow brothers. It's a big world.

Lastly... I had the time of my life. We spent 4 years tearing it up. I don't want to bro out and say much more, but I will go through the rest of my life wishing that I could do it again. Massive parties, beautiful women and your buddies makes for a good time. You can find all of this regardless of your choice, but not every day of the week.

If you want advice on how to go through the process, or just want general guidance feel free to message me with any questions you might have.

Don't hump textbooks for 4 years. This is your last chance to really be young and stupid.

"I'm short your house"

2/3/10

I can tell you that no one I've met has ever regretted joining one. The people that are telling you not to are people that aren't in fraternities. I can tell you that personally it has helped me more than I ever could've imagined.

2/3/10

Figure out the fees so you can determine how much you are paying for each brother. A simple spreadsheet would work. The fees at our school are around 1200 for a year so that into each brother times 3 and 1/2 years due to pledging will allow you to see if you are really finding that true value.
Orrr you could find some good friends you don't have to pay for and build social skills on your own. It's all up to you what you make of college. Force yourself to meet people and there will be no lonely nights.

2/3/10

best decision of my life

I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know everything that shine ain't always gonna be gold. I'll be fine once I get it

2/3/10

Of course it is worth it, because I WOULD NEVER EVER DATE A GUY WHO ISN"T A FRAT STAR BACK IN COLLEGE. After college, that's a different story.

"I already know I'm going to Hell. So, at this point it's go big or go home"

2/3/10

You sound like a first round cut anyways...

2/3/10

Read from TFM (totalfratmove.com) if you're just going to join for connections, and aren't wanting to become a "fratstar" you're not going to enjoy your time. But I've always said that if you don't get hazed by a fraternity, life will do the hazing on it's own.

-RR

2/3/10

Go through the formal fall rush and see if there are any chapters that have similar interests and ideals to your own. It depends on the school, chapter, and pledge class but if you find a solid group of young professionals who are campus leaders and have young poon following them around - couldnt be a bad investment...

2/3/10

O ya.. depending on where you are in the country - you probably should find out the hazing "policy."

2/3/10

Incoming 1st year and member of a very well-known fraternity here; it has helped in 2 ways:

1. Development-Joining a (good) fraternity helps your personal development during college in spades. It starts with rush, which requires you to "get out there" and be able to present a personable face to the brothers. My chapter does not haze, but pledges still have to develop time management skills, learn to integrate into a tight-knit organization and most importantly, act in a responsible manner-if you're still acting like a high schooler you will get dropped, if you even got a bid in the first place. Most important is once you're a brother-I served on exec board for 2 years and made meaningful impacts on both positions that I held during my term. In short, joining a fraternity guides brothers in what you could call accelerated development and gives you a lot of great answers to those bullshit HR questions like "tell me about a time you demonstrated leadership".

2. Network-my school is a semi-target school, so having a large fraternity network in addition to my collegiate one was a huge help. Between SA/FT recruiting I probably spoke to 100 brothers who were happy to offer me advice, even if they couldn't help with a job. Ultimately, my initial contact into the firm that I'll be starting at soon was a fraternity alumni. I think my experience there is a great illustration of what a fraternity (or college) network can do-get you an initial contact that is willing to listen, but you still have to convince him that you're a cool person and can do the job well. It also helped if I was interviewing with someone who was Greek, but not in the same fraternity-as much as some college students like to talk shit about other fraternities, they're all very similar, and in an interview setting, that gives you and your interviewer a shared experience that helps establish a connection. Last, on the college level, my business school is very-Greek (overall campus participation is about 30%, b-school is probably over double that if you exempt the athletes), and so being part of the overall Greek community helped me be closer with my classmates, who will be a vital part of any student's future network.

Hope this helps, I'd be happy to answer more detailed questions

2/3/10

Is it worth joining a frat in grad school? One of the things I regret not doing is joining a fraternity in ugrad. How does graduate fraternity life compare?

Get busy living

2/3/10

There might be some grad-school fraternities (a la Phi Beta Kappa), but I've never heard of a social fraternity (i.e. "frat") initiating grad schools-I suspect most are restricted to exclusively undergrads by chapter/nationals rules.

2/3/10

As far as I know, modern fraternities do not allow graduate members.

I do know that back in the 19th century when many of our organizations were getting founded, there were graduate students involved. University back then was a different beast; you 'graduated' when you had finished your course of study to the satisfaction of your supervising faculty member and took your final examination (often oral).

Many of our oldest chapters were founded by graduate students; reading the rolls, it's kind of interesting to learn. Some were law students (apparently you could go directly to law school).

In short though, you can't join a fraternity after undergrad.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

2/3/10

UFOinsider:

Is it worth joining a frat in grad school? One of the things I regret not doing is joining a fraternity in ugrad. How does graduate fraternity life compare?


I disagree with APAE. It is technically not allowed at the national level for most fraternities but the right fraternity will take you. This completely depends on the Greek life culture at the school and the chapter. I was rush chair and we've taken older guys if they were military or had legitimate reasons for rushing late. If you are doing a one year program, your time would be better spent participating in something else. I could see certain chapters at schools with a smaller Greek life take a MBA student. PM me if you have any specific questions.
2/3/10

Correct, but they were undergrads ... age has nothing to do with it. My chapter pledged a 24-year-old. It was weird for his pledge brothers, but they bonded as strongly as any other class.

UFO was asking about joining as a graduate student, and we (and as far as I know most, your house may be an exception) wouldn't allow that. Little to no concern over age, huge concern over student status.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

2/3/10

We've never had a grad student try to rush and I'm almost certain my house would not bid a grad student but I could see certain chapters who would. I would imagine UFOs chances would increase by rushing local fraternities but from what I've seen, I would not recommend joining most of them.

2/3/10

I didn't even realize grad schools had fraternities...

2/3/10

Sales & trading Floors are very fratty so being in a frat can be super helpful. I also know I got my first internship in finance during my freshman year through a fraternity connection. It can be very helpful-but finance/networking should not be the reason you join or you will hate yourself.

2/3/10

I did fine without a business fraternity. Please see link below:

//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/from-non-target-to-BB-ceo-my-story

2/3/10

Student status

Please explain

Looking for like minded individuals, not sheep. If a fraternity meets that criterion then I'm in. Otherwise, I have real brothers and will make my own friends.

Please advise

Get busy living

2/3/10

Student status = whether you are a graduate or undergraduate If you are an undergrad, all is well. Freshmen are always the primary rush candidates, and sometimes sophomores will be considered. Juniors are incredibly rare and usually have some compelling reason (transfer, military, varsity athlete, etc.) that the house feels they are a value-add.

Honestly, the farther out of undergrad you are, the less you're probably fit for a fraternity. When you're a wet-behind-the-ears 18-year-old sack of shit coming out of high school you are fine with enduring pledging. As a grown man in his 20s, you won't be, and that's not a bad thing.

Make friends on your own; leave the fraternities for those who found them at the appropriate time.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

2/3/10
2/3/10

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

2/3/10
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