Hedge Fund Careers: Getting a Hedge Fund Job Out of Undergrad and Beyond

DaveMCR
Rank: Orangutan | banana points 329

A career in the hedge fund industry is one of the most desirable careers in finance.

Money is undoubtedly the greatest attraction to careers with hedge funds, with analysts making $150k and then some. Portfolio managers often make north of seven figures, which is why eventually running a fund is considered the optimal career trajectory for so many.

Hedge Fund Lifestyle and Wages

The job rests significantly on individual performance, a simultaneously appealing and frightening facet of hedge funds.

Hedge fund employees work an average of 50-70 hours a week, far less than their investment banking peers.

However, everybody wants to be a rock star portfolio manager, but not everybody is equipped with the knowledge to get a hedge fund job in the first place.

Getting into Hedge Funds Out of College

Most hedge fund jobs are obtained once you've "paid your dues." Paying your dues typically involves two years of investment banking, equity research, or sales and trading. Among those, what you choose to pursue will shape what type of fund you seek to pursue.

  • For example, if you want to join a global macro discretionary fund, you may be better off being a strategist or economist at an investment bank / big asset manager.
  • The investment banking route prepares you for event driven and long/short as does equity research.
  • If you want to be in a systematic hedge fund / CTA fund, you'll need to do some kind of programming research.
  • If you want to work for a credit fund, it may make sense to work for a distressed credit S&T desk or in a leverage finance group.

That being said, getting a start in investment banking will typically leave most doors open to pursuing a career in a hedge fund after graduation.

how to become a hedge fund analyst without experience?

While working in equity research or in investment banking is typically the clearest path to working at a hedge fund, it is not impossible to start working at a hedge fund right after undergrad. It will however, take a great deal of work to overcome to highly competitive nature of recruiting.

Just like in investment banking, internships are absolutely critical in getting a hedge fund job. You can start searching for internships as soon as the summer after freshman year.

Steps to finding a HF position without experience:

  • Prepare to answer questions about why you want to work in the industry and learn how to answer industry technical questions by using the Wall Street Oasis Hedge Fund Interview Guide.
  • Familiarize yourself with the process with this detailed post on WSO
  • After going through the above two steps, NETWORKING IS KEY. You will not get a position at a hedge fund by simply dropping your resume. There will likely not even be a public resume drop for you to use. There are two methods of networking to get a hedge fund internship:
    • Connections of family and friends - this is probably the path of least resistance; however, most don't have these connections that they can utilize
    • Cold calling and cold emailing - search alumni databases, corporate websites, and linkedins for phone numbers and emails. Emailing is typically considered to be more courteous in the modern era and it allows you to more easily understand who is willing to help you / speak with you. When calling, you may have to play phone tag before someone will ultimately tell you that they can't help. Read more about the

The Cold Email Template and Attachments

The most critical aspect of your cold email will be the stock pitch you attach. You need to prove that you're a capable investor if you want a chance at the internship. They're considering including you on their team for three months, and you likely have little experience to demonstrate that you'd be a good choice over the other candidates. The stock pitch is what separates you - on initial contact - from the myriad of hungry students competing for a position. A quality stock pitch puts you miles ahead of your peers, and it will greatly increase the responses your email gets. The length of your stock pitch should be between five and eight pages.

If you have a strong resume that demonstrates investing or finance experience - feel free to attach that as well when emailing.

Preparing your email template is a simple task. You should include:

  • Year in School - If Applicable
  • Major
  • Your inquiry ("I would love to hear about your career and your experience at X fund. Would it be possible to arrange a short phone call to discuss your background and where you're at today?")
  • Make sure to include your stock pitch and resume (optional but recommended) and mention it somewhere in your email. You can say something along the lines of, ""I apologize if this is too forward, but I've attached my resume and a stock pitch for your consideration."

While not all professionals will read this detailed stock pitch, if your stock pitch is clear, coherent, and well-researched, then the professional will respect your initiative and see your value as a potential intern.

A final rule of thumb is to not email more than one person at a given fund at a time. If you are blasting out emails that will be noticed and looked poorly upon.

Recruiting for Hedge Funds Jobs after Investment Banking

Above we have reviewed how to break into the hedge world bypassing the traditional paths to HFs that we discussed earlier - IE investment banking, equity research, and quantitative roles. Now we will review the process for getting into HFs coming out of an IB or ER role.
So how do you get your foot in the door once you've "paid your dues?"

User @WallStreetPlayboys shared details on how that recruiting process works:

WallStreetPlayboys:

The best way to land a hedge fund interview is through networking, but... a large portion of the recruiting process is outsourced to headhunters, who primarily target bankers and research analysts in their searches (management consultants are also successful).

The job responsibilities are not exactly the same, but the skill set and intelligence necessary to be a junior banker serve as a baseline for the kind of work that is expected of hedge fund personnel.

Preparing For Your Hedge Fund Interview Experience

Fortunately, hedge fund internship interviews aren't incredibly technical. Besides some basic questions on the markets and investing, the interview will consist of behavioral and fit questions. Come prepared with a few short stories you can adapt to answer some of the more typical behavioral questions. If you are coming out of investment banking, you should be prepared to talk about the deals that you have listed on your resume.

Learn how to answer behavioral interview questions with the FREE Finance Interview Guide.

Hedge Fund Interview Stock Pitch Preparation

The hedge fund interview is a nerve-inducing affair. For many, this is the position they've yearned for as early as high school. Combined with the fact that hedge fund recruiting is incredibly competitive, the average fund only hires five to six analysts a year, and it can seem like an overwhelming hurdle to jump.

First, understand that you'll likely never jump that hurdle unless you use some sort of hedge fund interview course. Most candidates will use some sort of guide to prep for the technical aspect of the interview, so those who don't will get left in the dust.

One particularly critical moment in the interview is the stock pitch. Here's how you need to prepare for the stock pitch:

Here are a few rules of thumb for the stock pitch recommended by users @WallStreetPlayboys:

WallStreetPlayboys:
  1. Tailor at least one of your ideas to the fund's strategy. (e.g., If it's a L/S shop, have a pair trade ready to go.
  2. The second idea, that can be anything. It could be based on a recent deal you worked or something going on in your coverage area, or something you read in Barron's/a research report last weekend.
  3. When presenting the idea, you want to walk them through the process and explain your decision making at each step:
    • Inspiration / how you came up with the idea
    • Model the company (details are better but errors can ruin your chances - a balance)
    • Conduct background research about the company
    • Refining the original thesis based on research and model
    • Coming up with a valuation for the company
    • Making an investment recommendation based on that valuation (buy / sell)
    • Listing any possible downsides / risks, along with any mitigating factors

If you utilize the WSO Hedge Fund Interview Course and take heed of the stock pitch advice above, you'll be in good shape.

Learn more about the stock pitch in the video below.

 

Talking About Your Personal Portfolio in the Interview

Start a personal trading account as early as possible. This will give you skin in the game and really make you follow the markets. It will also incentivize you to learn about different strategies that you can then talk about in interviews.
Being able to explain concepts such as asset rotation strategies, closed end fund logics, etc. can be very impressive. One users suggested opening a trading account with $1k and beginning to invest it with your own ideas - if you lose money - then you can simply write it off on your taxes and consider it part of your education.

Being a Great Hedge Fund Intern

Let's then assume that you've gotten the position. At this point, your success is on your performance as an intern. When they say, "Jump," you say, "How high?" Find some way to add value to the fund. You need to make yourself as essential to the fund as possible. Ideally, you get a return offer for an internship next summer (or a full-time position if you're a junior). If the fund is indeed hiring analysts, that's your green light. Hopefully, conversations about whether the fund can/will hire you come up organically. Otherwise, you should bring that point to light.

Assess whether the firm will hire you upon graduation. If not, it's time to look for other opportunities. It's an unfortunate scenario, but you have good experience under your belt and hopefully a solid referral. If all goes well, then you'll have landed yourself a full-time hedge fund job out of undergrad.

Ready to Start Preparing For Hedge Fund Interviews?

Want access to 20+ more sample pitches with actual templates? The WallStreetOasis Hedge Fund Interview Prep Course has more than enough sample pitches as well as 814 questions across 165 hedge funds. Crowdsourced from over 450,000 members and trusted by over 1,000 aspiring hedge fund professionals just like you, the WSO Hedge Fund Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to land the most coveted jobs on the buyside.

HF Interview Course Here

Comments (89)

Best Response
Jan 18, 2015

Great story. Can you share a list of books/articles that you found useful when learning investing by yourself?

Learn More

814 questions across 165 hedge funds. 10+ Sample Pitches (Short and Long) with Template Files. The WSO Hedge Fund Interview Prep Course has everything you'll ever need to land the most coveted jobs on the buyside. Learn more.

Jan 21, 2015
CFACandidateLevel1:

Great story. Can you share a list of books/articles that you found useful when learning investing by yourself?

Thanks for the comment. My favorite books in no particular order:

The Intelligent Investor
Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits
The Art of Value Investing
You Can Be A Stock Market Genius
Dhandi Investor
One Up On Wall Street
The Manual of Ideas
Valuation
The Education of a Value Investor
The Quality of Earnings
Fooling Some of the People, All of the Time
The Essays of Warren Buffett
Hedge Fund Market Wizard

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 23, 2015

Thank you so much. Another compelling story of hard work paying off. Good luck with your work.

Feb 8, 2015

Have a banana for being awesome, sir!

Also, inspiring story right there.

Jan 18, 2015
Jan 18, 2015

Awesome story. Great hustle. Good for you

Jan 18, 2015

This is some solid stuff.

Lots of HFs are willing to talk to you if you are young, hungry and cheap (ie. free/nearly free). Some guys love the mentorship thing and/or the fact that you might be a free/cheap option, in exchange you work hard and learn a lot. In some ways it can be easier to get into than in a bank since you aren't always competing with resume drops at colleges. Lots of funds are thinly staffed/small. The key is to get a meeting (emails and phone calls "asking for 5 minutes of their time")...

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.

Jan 19, 2015

What resources did you use to learn investing , economic and finance fundamentals?

In the future , do you think that eventually more hedge funds will gain more willingness to hire undergrads on a FT basis ?

Any advice for a college student looking for HF internships?

Congrats,
Keep Grinding !

Jan 21, 2015
Shambles:

What resources did you use to learn investing , economic and finance fundamentals?

In the future , do you think that eventually more hedge funds will gain more willingness to hire undergrads on a FT basis ?

Any advice for a college student looking for HF internships?

Congrats,

Keep Grinding !

As far as resources for learning the fundamentals go, for me personally, first and foremost are books. Read and reread. For some of the best books I own, I've read them at least 5 or 6 times and still learn something new each time. I also learned a lot from old presentations given at the Value Investing Congress. They may be outdated, but can help you a great deal in your education process as you can pick the brains of the greatest. Lastly, the insights found from Top Ideas on Seeking Alpha and Manual of Ideas. Many of which are written by PMs. Manual of Ideas also has a brilliant youtube page.

On the topic of hedge funds willing to hire undergrads on a FT basis, maybe. Again, hedge funds don't typically hire undergrads due to a perceived lack of experience and HFs themselves not having the resources to train. But, this depends on the HF. In my first interview with the fund who I work for, I asked whether or not my status as an undergraduate will hurt me. His response was music to my ears, something along the lines of: "It won't hurt you, it won't help you. In the end, we care about what you can do." In other words, if an undergrad can demonstrate the ability to generate profitable ideas, I don't believe anything else will be an issue.

My advice for college students looking for an internship, dedicate the majority of your time on writing TWO compelling investment ideas, one on the long side and one on the short side. This is the easiest and best way to differentiate yourself from others.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 20, 2015

Very solid, thanks for sharing.

Jan 20, 2015

Great story. Way to apply yourself and go for what you want.

As someone with several years of experience in the industry, I would suggest you start evaluating the firm you are currently with - in my best guess, less than 10% of funds actually consistently deliver performance, net of fees, that exceeds a passive index fund. They run on marketing fumes and literally destroy value for clients (that instead goes in the managers' pockets). Unless you don't care about whether or not you / your firm add value, I suggest you start figuring out which bucket your firm falls in. The longer you stay, the more likely you will be trapped in mediocrity.

Jan 21, 2015
username777:

Great story. Way to apply yourself and go for what you want.

As someone with several years of experience in the industry, I would suggest you start evaluating the firm you are currently with - in my best guess, less than 10% of funds actually consistently deliver performance, net of fees, that exceeds a passive index fund. They run on marketing fumes and literally destroy value for clients (that instead goes in the managers' pockets). Unless you don't care about whether or not you / your firm add value, I suggest you start figuring out which bucket your firm falls in. The longer you stay, the more likely you will be trapped in mediocrity.

Thanks for the advice. My boss's fund has been in operations since 2002 I believe and has a long-term track record of 15+% annualized.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 21, 2015

not to throw shade your way but something seems fishy. If the fund has been throwing up 15%+ annualized returns for 12 years I'd expect they would be able to raise a good amount of money. At least enough to bring you on as an analyst full-time if that was their intention. In my experience hiring someone isn't about the money in the budget as much as the time/burden it takes to manage them. If they're going to commit to a relationship I don't see why they wouldn't do it all the way. I'd expect long-term, even if you do end up full-time with them, the economics of your compensation will never give you a fair shake.

Jan 22, 2015
tiger2012:

not to throw shade your way but something seems fishy. If the fund has been throwing up 15%+ annualized returns for 12 years I'd expect they would be able to raise a good amount of money. At least enough to bring you on as an analyst full-time if that was their intention. In my experience hiring someone isn't about the money in the budget as much as the time/burden it takes to manage them. If they're going to commit to a relationship I don't see why they wouldn't do it all the way. I'd expect long-term, even if you do end up full-time with them, the economics of your compensation will never give you a fair shake.

I understand what your saying. I actually had a call today with the PM who explicitly told me they are in no position to hire full time analysts at the moment. Makes sense as its a shop run by a group of people in the single digits constantly doing something. My previous boss, who started out as an analyst, worked part-time for 9 months before getting hired full time.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 22, 2015

How large is the fund?

Sorry if you mentioned it already and I missed it

Jan 22, 2015
Lexington55:

How large is the fund?

Sorry if you mentioned it already and I missed it

Midsized, $75M

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 22, 2015

This is not a knock on you whatsoever so don't take it personally...

75mm is not midsized. 75mm is tiny.

Imo..
Small - 10-250mm
Mid is - 250mm to 1bb
large - 1bb - 5bb

with 10bb plus being considered mega

I think for long/short strategy, the numbers should be even higher since l/s is often more scalable than other strats.

Jan 23, 2015
DaveMCR:
Lexington55:

How large is the fund?

Sorry if you mentioned it already and I missed it

Midsized, $75M

$75M is not midsized, $75M is essentially a family office. Even if they are getting 2% that's $1.5M per year in fees and 20% of the profits on a 2x fund would be $15M pre-tax with an avg. investing period of 4 years that's not much...

Jan 22, 2015
DaveMCR:
username777:

Great story. Way to apply yourself and go for what you want.

As someone with several years of experience in the industry, I would suggest you start evaluating the firm you are currently with - in my best guess, less than 10% of funds actually consistently deliver performance, net of fees, that exceeds a passive index fund. They run on marketing fumes and literally destroy value for clients (that instead goes in the managers' pockets). Unless you don't care about whether or not you / your firm add value, I suggest you start figuring out which bucket your firm falls in. The longer you stay, the more likely you will be trapped in mediocrity.

Thanks for the advice. My boss's fund has been in operations since 2002 I believe and has a long-term track record of 15+% annualized.

What is the Sharpe ratio? $64K question. (Actually add several zeroes to that)

> 2: What marketing?

> 3: Reserved largely for billionaire geeks.

I think a $75mm fund with 15% returns is a good start, but if you're posting solid returns that hold up during tough periods for the market, I feel like the fund should be bigger after 13 years. It's possible you may not have gotten the whole story if all three numbers ($75mm, 13 years, and 15%) are correct. And while you've landed a dream job for a lot of folks (I would have killed to land at a hedge fund out of undergrad), it's important to keep your eyes open for opportunities at firms that are generating more compelling returns. (Remember to look at the Sharpe ratio, volatility, and drawdowns in addition to the total return figure. Sometimes AUM and the flow of funds can tell the story at the larger shops)

In any case congrats and best of luck to you and your firm.

Aug 13, 2015
Jan 22, 2015

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if the fund hasn't grown much in 13 years, I sort of echo others views that perhaps 1) the principals are content w/ where they are.. 2) you may not be getting the whole story

Jan 22, 2015

Yeah. I don't want to take away from OP's excellent post or his accomplishment in breaking in out of undergrad, but $75M may be a little smaller than mid sized. It is a perfectly fine place to start though.

From a guy with a little more gray hair, I would add three questions that you want to try and answer before taking a job offer at a fund, especially if you have multiple offers:

-What is your AUM?
-What is your Sharpe?
-What does the flow of funds look like?

For a quant fund, I would also try and figure out:

-How much data do we really have to work with?
-How is the trade execution? Tech infrastructure?
-What is the culture like?

Apr 5, 2018

My guess is a lot of funds are like this one.

Borderline family office maybe some friends and family. I think it's possible someone can put up those returns and just be a poor marketer or not a salesman or just likes not having the stress of managing an organization.

Those might actually be the best performing funds though volatile could be a bit crazier.

Array
Jan 22, 2015

Great entry and congratulations @op

For students or others who are contemplating in getting into high finance you have to realize that it takes drive and dedication. Ask yourself, what are you willing to do to get the job or to show that you are motivated in doing such jobs and not simply by saying I am interested. Action means a lot than words.

While I am a CFA charterholder, I have not actually done anything close to what the op has done. Yes, I am interested in value investing and I strongly believe that it will deliver consistent results over the long term, but when it comes down to sitting down and actually conducting a thorough analysis, I am simply not motivated. There are competing priorities and right now, stock analysis is not high on the list.

So I think it's also helpful to ask yourself, what are your priorities? How are these going to help you get what you want?

Jan 22, 2015

I would also point out that this is not an easy industry to work in.

Jim Simons, head of Renaissance Technology, is a paranoid nutjob when it comes to competition. He's arguably one of the smartest and perhaps hardest working people in this industry (certainly smarter than me), and even he can't sleep very well at night.

I don't want to scare people away, and there's money for everyone, but your competition is a paranoid, hardworking insomniac billionaire supergenius with an IQ ~180 and a collection of servers and data that is O(NSA+CIA). Hedge funds are a place for people with a lot of ambition, but you have to temper that ambition with an even bigger dose of humility and moderate expectations.

Jan 22, 2015

While that's true, at the less senior levels, the pressures are very different. Besides, for most of the *serious* people who self select for this kind of industry (not me), I think that they'd be up and stressed no matter what. Some people are just stressed out by nature - if they aren't at the top, they're stressing about how to get there or why they're not there and if they're at the top, they're stressing about how to stay there.

Life's is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Jan 23, 2015
IlliniProgrammer:

I would also point out that this is not an easy industry to work in.

Jim Simons, head of Renaissance Technology, is a paranoid nutjob when it comes to competition. He's arguably one of the smartest and perhaps hardest working people in this industry (certainly smarter than me), and even he can't sleep very well at night.

I don't want to scare people away, and there's money for everyone, but your competition is a paranoid, hardworking insomniac billionaire supergenius with an IQ ~180 and a collection of servers and data that is O(NSA+CIA). Hedge funds are a place for people with a lot of ambition, but you have to temper that ambition with an even bigger dose of humility and moderate expectations.

Agreed that it's competitive, but have you ever considered that not every hedge fund is a macro or quant fund? Many long/short funds are beating Rentech's returns and don't have a single person with over 130 IQ.

Jan 23, 2015
SanityCheck:

Agreed that it's competitive, but have you ever considered that not every hedge fund is a macro or quant fund? Many long/short funds are beating Rentech's returns and don't have a single person with over 130 IQ.

Sure. There are a lot of traditional funds out there. But I think that there's a lot of stuff that used to be an art- managing risk, finding cheap securities, that has become more of a science over the past 20 years. The days of scanning through ValueLine reports looking for stocks with low P/Es ought to be over.

BTW we beat Rentech's returns too, but I think it's more luck than skill. If you look at 20 year returns, they get tougher to consistently beat on Sharpe by just about anyone.

In any case, every hedge fund can benefit greatly from a risk model and from portfolio optimization. If you're not managing your risk with a factor model (or perhaps something more advanced) and either running it through an optimizer or at least trying to optimize by hand to reduce risk while preserving your edge, you're taking risk you don't need to take and leaving Sharpe on the table. And in order to do this stuff well, you really want a guy with a strong math background. Maybe you can pull it off without a graduate degree or even a STEM major but you need someone with some background in linear algebra and convex optimization (or at least calculus and stats if you're optimizing by hand)

So in some sense every fund- even the traditional ones- can really benefit from having a quant to help manage the portfolio. Or at the very least if you have the budget for 20 employees, and your fund has more than a dozen or so stocks in its portfolio, one of your employees should know how to invert a matrix, know what cVar means, and should have some input on how the portfolio is allocated or hedged.

Jan 23, 2015
IlliniProgrammer:
SanityCheck:

Agreed that it's competitive, but have you ever considered that not every hedge fund is a macro or quant fund? Many long/short funds are beating Rentech's returns and don't have a single person with over 130 IQ.

Sure. There are a lot of traditional funds out there. But I think that there's a lot of stuff that used to be an art- managing risk, finding cheap securities, that has become more of a science over the past 20 years. The days of scanning through ValueLine reports looking for stocks with low P/Es ought to be over.

BTW we beat Rentech's returns too, but I think it's more luck than skill. If you look at 20 year returns, they get tougher to consistently beat on Sharpe by just about anyone.

In any case, every hedge fund can benefit greatly from a risk model and from portfolio optimization. If you're not managing your risk with a factor model (or perhaps something more advanced) and either running it through an optimizer or at least trying to optimize by hand to reduce risk while preserving your edge, you're taking risk you don't need to take and leaving Sharpe on the table. And in order to do this stuff well, you really want a guy with a strong math background. Maybe you can pull it off without a graduate degree or even a STEM major but you need someone with some background in linear algebra and convex optimization (or at least calculus and stats if you're optimizing by hand)

So in some sense every fund- even the traditional ones- can really benefit from having a quant to help manage the portfolio. Or at the very least if you have the budget for 20 employees, and your fund has more than a dozen or so stocks in its portfolio, one of your employees should know how to invert a matrix, know what cVar means, and should have some input on how the portfolio is allocated or hedged.

Lol absolutely no one I know in this field is doing that. Half my time is talking to CEOs... I have no idea what Valueline is. We don't focus on "cheap" stocks. Tiger cubs have traditionally made a killing of tech & growth which is also half of our portfolio.

If anything's more "luck" it's macro funds (take a look at the most recent industry data for returns or Sumzero's survey, released last week).

You're commenting on something completely foreign to me. My team is 3 people and we absolutely would rather take a secretary at this point than a "quant". I don't think you know what we do (i.e. take a look at Pershing's holdings, the top 3 longs are 50% of the portfolio, are you thinking of mutual funds?)

My PM from a well known Tiger cub has absolutely 0 idea what cVar is. He has a 17%+ track record over 5 years net of fees. I think your idea of what a "traditional" (what does this even mean?) fund is 20 years outdated.

Jan 23, 2015
SanityCheck:
IlliniProgrammer:
SanityCheck:

Agreed that it's competitive, but have you ever considered that not every hedge fund is a macro or quant fund? Many long/short funds are beating Rentech's returns and don't have a single person with over 130 IQ.

Sure. There are a lot of traditional funds out there. But I think that there's a lot of stuff that used to be an art- managing risk, finding cheap securities, that has become more of a science over the past 20 years. The days of scanning through ValueLine reports looking for stocks with low P/Es ought to be over.

BTW we beat Rentech's returns too, but I think it's more luck than skill. If you look at 20 year returns, they get tougher to consistently beat on Sharpe by just about anyone.

In any case, every hedge fund can benefit greatly from a risk model and from portfolio optimization. If you're not managing your risk with a factor model (or perhaps something more advanced) and either running it through an optimizer or at least trying to optimize by hand to reduce risk while preserving your edge, you're taking risk you don't need to take and leaving Sharpe on the table. And in order to do this stuff well, you really want a guy with a strong math background. Maybe you can pull it off without a graduate degree or even a STEM major but you need someone with some background in linear algebra and convex optimization (or at least calculus and stats if you're optimizing by hand)

So in some sense every fund- even the traditional ones- can really benefit from having a quant to help manage the portfolio. Or at the very least if you have the budget for 20 employees, and your fund has more than a dozen or so stocks in its portfolio, one of your employees should know how to invert a matrix, know what cVar means, and should have some input on how the portfolio is allocated or hedged.

Lol absolutely no one I know in this field is doing that. Half my time is talking to CEOs... I have no idea what Valueline is. We don't focus on "cheap" stocks. Tiger cubs have traditionally made a killing of tech & growth which is also half of our portfolio.

If anything's more "luck" it's macro funds (take a look at the most recent industry data for returns or Sumzero's survey, released last week).

You're commenting on something completely foreign to me. My team is 3 people and we absolutely would rather take a secretary at this point than a "quant". I don't think you know what we do (i.e. take a look at Pershing's holdings, the top 3 longs are 50% of the portfolio, are you thinking of mutual funds?)

My PM from a well known Tiger cub has absolutely 0 idea what cVar is. He has a 17%+ track record over 5 years net of fees. I think your idea of what a "traditional" (what does this even mean?) fund is 20 years outdated.

That is pretty good- it's about as good as the S&P 500 since 2009, which is better than most hedge funds. But I think our team has done better. :) And by investing in 1000 different positions and balancing our risk, we've done it with less risk and little market covariance. Pension fund managers see that and give us more capital- the returns do the marketing for us. I still think we've been lucky tho.

If you have a good risk model and a good prime broker you can take out more leverage and generate more returns... or you can run the portfolio more conservatively for your investors- it's up to you. But if you're not actively managing your risk, you are leaving a lot of money on the table.

It's true that there are a lot of things about the mid sized traditional fundamental funds that I don't know. But I do know that the principals of risk management can be applied anywhere there's uncertainty and basically boil down to statistics. Using options to hedge your positions allows you to be more surgical about taking the risks you want to take and means more money for you and your investors (or at least less risk for them). Balancing out factor exposures means that returns hold up better during a crash (IE 2007)

There's a lot that our team has to learn from funds that trade by hand- but there's also a lot for traditional long short funds to learn from us. And the idea of having a risk model- and trying to manage risk- is something that's basically cost-free for me to share with everyone (unlike a strategy or signal). Managing risk is the one win-win for everyone in the market. The last thing we want is a competitor blowing up and creating another 1998 or 2007.

Google Fama-French. It's a fairly rudimentary risk model, and it's easy to understand, but these guys got a Nobel Prize for it.

Good luck to you.

Nov 13, 2017

I think running high statistical analysis on risks nowadays is adding a significant element of risks to your model.

I've seen more odd statistical moves in the last 18 months than ever before. If you are optimizing risks management on past data I have a feeling at some point the model breaks from over optimization.

Array
Jan 24, 2015
SanityCheck:

My PM from a well known Tiger cub has absolutely 0 idea what cVar is. He has a 17%+ track record over 5 years net of fees.

My Vanguard S&P 500 fund returned 15.5% over the past 5 years and I had to pay minimal taxes, so presumably I have better after tax returns, net of fees.

If your fund did this with half the risk of the stock market that would be a fairly impressive, but given the fact that risk management seems like a foreign concept to your team, my guess is that is not the case.

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Jan 22, 2015

reverse engineering $75M current AUM compounding at 15% p.a. for 13 years....

$75M / [(1 + 15%)^13] = estimated $12.2M starting AUM, assuming zero flows into the product. certainly seems strange.

Jan 22, 2015
username777:

reverse engineering $75M current AUM compounding at 15% p.a. for 13 years....

$75M / [(1 + 15%)^13] = estimated $12.2M starting AUM, assuming zero flows into the product. certainly seems strange.

The way fund flows work in reality is that investors tend to buy high and sell low- much to the chagrin of fund managers. If you pull half your money out at the bottom and add it back at the top, where top is 2x bottom, you have 37.5% less money than you'd have if you just left it in.

So in an information equilibrium, fund flows tend to reduce AUM growth. (Investors pull out at the wrong time)

Jan 22, 2015

Debating the size/performance history of the fund detracts from the OP's point, which is the process he used to break into a HF out of undergrad. The fund's prestige almost doesn't matter at this point. Just be happy for him that he doesn't have to spend the next couple of years working as a monkey cranking out spreadsheets for clients who don't care.

Congrats, and good hustle.

Jan 22, 2015

Very true. But also I dont think any of us are trying to knock OP down either. Joining any HF for the sake of the name HF isn't a smart idea either. Especially if the fund is small and isn't on a growth trajectory you need to be seeing w/ the performance numbers he mentioned.

Jan 22, 2015
7xEBITDA:

Debating the size/performance history of the fund detracts from the OP's point, which is the process he used to break into a HF out of undergrad. The fund's prestige almost doesn't matter at this point. Just be happy for him that he doesn't have to spend the next couple of years working as a monkey cranking out spreadsheets for clients who don't care.

Congrats, and good hustle.

Yes. Actually OP is the kind of person who has a good personality for this industry. Lots of hustle and modest expectations.

OP did not need to work at a DE Shaw or SAC to be happy.

OP is perfectly happy just to jam a few toes in the door.

IBD people gunning for a very large fund also need to know that they're on a bit of a different path than OP and that both paths are perfectly valid. We have to respect OP's choices and advice but we also can't invalidate the decision that other people have made to pursue two years in IBD. I would argue that experience gives their careers a little more stability.

Finally the last point is that while prestige and size are poor measures to make decisions on, not all hedge funds offer the same opportunities for career growth and becoming a better investor/researcher/risk manager/quant. It's important to understand how to generate returns in order to grow your career. Not all X% returns are created equal; not all Y Sharpes with X% returns are created equal. And there is an enormous amount to learn about risk management, investing, managing people and investors, and the like. In general there is probably more to learn on the pure investment side at the funds that post "better" returns (keeping in mind that there are lots of ways to measure that) and attract lots of capital.

So that's why while OP is off to a good start, some of us are just chiming in that there is a lot of room to also grow and learn in this business, and that OP just needs to keep his eyes open.

Jan 22, 2015

Hey guys, to clear some things up, the fund managed $400M million at its peak, but capital was returned to investors during the recession. As far as I'm concerned, the fund's AUM consists exclusively of the PMs own capital so I think he's content with where he is now. He's a fairly well known guy in the value investing world.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 22, 2015

Great post! Thanks for sharing and good luck.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

Jan 23, 2015

Thanks for sharing, I've added you on LinkedIn. Definitely will ask for your advice and bug you a bit in the future. Thanks for sharing and all the best.

Jan 23, 2015

Thanks for sharing, I've added you on LinkedIn. Definitely will ask for your advice and bug you a bit in the future. Thanks for sharing and all the best.

Jan 23, 2015

Have you ever traded your ideas with your money?

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Jan 23, 2015

I definitely enjoyed the write up and Illini's comments.

Jan 23, 2015

I don't know if it's only me but I always liked the quant approach or Soros like trading instead of talking with CEO's and Buffet like investing, it just so boring, investing should be dynamical and competitive. Quant trading makes you develop a broad universe of skills and it's exciting to create a strategy, backtest it, optimize it, throw it in the market and watch it battle to the death with other algos, screening through 10k-s and forecasting the next quarter GDP output is no fun. IMHO

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Jan 24, 2015

In the HF side myself and agree more with IP. Sanity Check may have higher annualized returns but what is the vol associated with that number? Given what I know about my counterpart group at IP's fund and their rigorous process for managing exposures I think they are better protected against large drawdowns than say a Pershing. Granted, they do very different things, but IP is saying look at the Sharpe.

Now it's possible Sanity Check's PM does have a high Sharpe to go with those impressive return numbers, but how does one know that he isn't just one of those lucky coin flippers who hasn't blown up yet? If you had to bet on an ex ante PROCESS instead of an ex post track record, I would put my money with a fund like IP's.

Jan 24, 2015

This has been a very difficult past five years for hedge funds to be fair. The S&P 500 has floated up at a very fast pace and a lot of stuff that used to work hasn't done as well.

When the SPY starts going sideways again, SanityCheck's fund will start to shine.

Let's not be too hard on folks here. We work in a tough business. Everyone wants to do stuff a bit differently.

My only point is that smart investors appreciate a good risk model. And PMs who believe in their source of alpha will want to hedge away their risk- or at least know what risks they're taking. There's also stuff that's commercially available and pretty easy to set up.

Jan 24, 2015

Wait a second, I visited this post and you took a polite, but massive dump all over the OP. I point out how well my Vanguard fund has done and I'm the jerk? I don't know if the 17% return was market neutral or levered 3 to 1. If you're paying 2 and 20, I don't want to hear about a tough environment. Performance in the context of the risk taken to get that performance is all that matters.

Jan 24, 2015

I didn't say that about you (actually I added your name because I was referring to a Lehman risk product but figured that would be best discussed offline). I just think the world is a nicer place when people are nice to each other. As you are well aware we work in a brutal industry and there is no need for us to make it more brutal than it has to be.

To respond to your point, what you want is an uncorrelated return that is well behaved. If you have that, you get a better performing portfolio overall than the S&P 500. If you add two uncorrelated returns that are positive, you get a better Sharpe than either return on it's own**. (Making certain assumptions about kurtosis and skewness)

It should be orthogonal to the S&P 500. It should not go down when the S&P 500 goes down.

Quant funds try to be orthogonal to the S&P 500. And actually if you look at quant fund returns, my understanding is that we killed it in September and October 08, and lost our shirts during the *rally* in March and April 09.

So if the S&P 500 is giving you 17% and we're giving you 15%, that's still fine. We're still doing our jobs and have a place in your portfolio. Depending on our variance you may even want to lever up on us to make that 15% return 20%. Now, if our returns have massive covariance with the S&P while charging 2+ 20 and returning less, that's when it's time to dump us.

My point is that from a portfolio allocation perspective return doesn't matter because you can achieve any return with the right leverage. To make portfolio allocation decisions you need to look at Sharpe, market covariance, and the heavy tail analysis of returns. The risk that you want to allocate to our strategy determines your return.

In reality returns aren't quite as well behaved as a normal distribution, so the average return does matter. If you're putting up 100% in potential risk, you don't want a 3% return. But if returns are reasonably high and well behaved, it's better to think in terms of Sharpe and covariance.

Jan 24, 2015
IlliniProgrammer:

I didn't say that about you (actually I added your name because I was referring to a Lehman risk product but figured that would be best discussed offline). I just think the world is a nicer place when people are nice to each other. As you are well aware we work in a brutal industry and there is no need for us to make it more brutal than it has to be.

To respond to your point, what you want is an uncorrelated return that is well behaved. If you have that, you get a better performing portfolio overall than the S&P 500. If you add two uncorrelated returns that are positive, you get a better Sharpe than either return on it's own**. (Making certain assumptions about kurtosis and skewness)

It should be orthogonal to the S&P 500. It should not go down when the S&P 500 goes down.

Quant funds try to be orthogonal to the S&P 500. And actually if you look at quant fund returns, my understanding is that we killed it in September and October 08, and lost our shirts during the *rally* in March and April 09.

So if the S&P 500 is giving you 17% and we're giving you 15%, that's still fine. We're still doing our jobs and have a place in your portfolio. Depending on our variance you may even want to lever up on us to make that 15% return 20%. Now, if our returns have massive covariance with the S&P while charging 2+ 20 and returning less, that's when it's time to dump us.

My point is that from a portfolio allocation perspective return doesn't matter because you can achieve any return with the right leverage. To make portfolio allocation decisions you need to look at Sharpe, market covariance, and the heavy tail analysis of returns. The risk that you want to allocate to our strategy determines your return.

In reality returns aren't quite as well behaved as a normal distribution, so the average return does matter. If you're putting up $100K in potential risk, you don't want a 3% return.

I know that, but here are the problems:

1. No risk management is clearly a bad thing, but 100% faith in quant models is probably just as bad and potentially disastrous (see LTCM, where the smartest guys in the room forgot about basics of trading....the sharks circle when there's blood in the water)

2. Nobody here isn't being nice. Saying that the other guy's fund will do well when markets go sideways is not nice, it's just phony. You don't know how ithat fund will perform, you don't even know what fund he's referring to. I've stated some facts and inferred a few things, nobody is calling one another names.

In the marketplace of ideas, some are good and some are bad. Calling out bad ideas is not equivalent to being mean. We're not 4 year olds here (well, maybe a couple are close).

Jan 24, 2015

Dickfuld, I thought you were in the industry? Or are you fixed income only?

Your questions / comments are a bit surprising to me since the model is well known even among junior analysts.

Single PM, 0 leverage, 55-70% net long, and none are market neutral. And you want to compare this vs. your vanguard over a bull cycle? Hmm.....

Your comments pertain more to a SPO partners which is concentrated long-only. Oh and they (SPO) did beat your vanguard returns by quite a large margin over these past few bull market years.

I'd venture most Tiger cubs would too if they were long-only.

Macro funds are great. So are concentrated long/shorts. There are plenty of models that work for different investors. The point of posting is to provide unbiased information to the silent majority of browsers of WSO who try to get authentic information. Not satisfy your ego on which "strategy" is better.

I believe Illinois' views are entirely correct for his experiences, but my original point is just that a quant has no real value in a Tiger cub model.

Hope that helps.

Jan 24, 2015

70% net long is exactly what I would have expected. But, maybe I'm the only one who thinks that beating the S&P by a 1.5% in a fund that is not daily liquid is not that is worship worthy.

So, what was the vol of your fund over this time period? Once again, 70% net long still doesn't necessarily tell you how much risk you're taking when we don't know the composition of your portfolio. Not that I really care, but you were the one bragging about fantastic returns with (relatively) low IQ PMs.

Jan 24, 2015

Dickfuld, I thought you were in the industry? Or are you fixed income only?

Your questions / comments are a bit surprising to me since the model is well known even among junior analysts.

Single PM, 0 leverage, 55-70% net long, and none are market neutral. And you want to compare this vs. your vanguard over a bull cycle? Hmm.....

Your comments pertain more to a SPO partners which is concentrated long-only. Oh and they (SPO) did beat your vanguard returns by quite a large margin over these past few bull market years.

I'd venture most Tiger cubs would too if they were long-only.

Macro funds are great. So are concentrated long/shorts. There are plenty of models that work for different investors. The point of posting is to provide unbiased information to the silent majority of browsers of WSO who try to get authentic information. Not satisfy your ego on which "strategy" is better.

I believe Illinois' views are entirely correct for his experiences, but my original point is just that a quant has no real value in a Tiger cub model.

Hope that helps.

Jan 24, 2015

I agree with a lot of what IP has said here content wise but the faux humility is hilarious

Also I think it makes perfect sense that a group of folks that would consider a secretary more useful than a quantitative guy would have lower IQs

Finally I'm not sure on what planet a 75 mn fund would be considered mid-sized but it's certainly not this one. Let's call a spade a spade

Jan 24, 2015
Going Concern:

I agree with a lot of what IP has said here content wise but the faux humility is hilarious

Also I think it makes perfect sense that a group of folks that would consider a secretary more useful than a quantitative guy would have lower IQs

Finally I'm not sure on what planet a 75 mn fund would be considered mid-sized but it's certainly not this one. Let's call a spade a spade

All three points are spot on. Faux humility is the perfect term to describe what happened.

Jan 25, 2015

Probably the best post i've seen on WSO to date. So relevant to my current situation honestly, haha.

Would you mind answering a question through PM?

Jan 26, 2015

Lion Cub, absolutely

To clear some things up, the reason why I referred to the fund as "mid-sized" is because $75M in AUM according to the SEC is considered a mid-sized advisory firm.

According to Item 2.A in Form ADV:
-A large advisory firm has AUM of $100M or more
-A mid-sized advisory firm has AUM of $25M or more but less than $100M

Relatively speaking, I understand $75M in AUM is not a lot. I guess I shouldn't be so technical next time.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 26, 2015

It's probably because the SEC hasn't updated anything since like the 90s (bit of an exaggeration but you get the point...)... many definitions regarding what constitutes as HNW or income are hilariously outdated.

Either ways, I apologize for nitpicking on the size of the AUM. I didn't mean to detract anything from your accomplishment.

Jan 26, 2015

What's a Lion Cub exactly? I heard elephant cubs usually have the highest returns.

Jan 26, 2015

There's always a bit of arrogance to these 'I MADE IT' posts - but it's a bit funny given it's not a full-time role. Going Concern nailed this thread.

Jan 31, 2015
SanityCheck:

What's a Lion Cub exactly? I heard elephant cubs usually have the highest returns.

tiger cubs > lion cubs > elephant cubs

Jan 30, 2015

What resource would you say helped you best develop your modeling skills?

Do you feel you are best suited for value investing? Or did you choose it because it was easier to learn, more popular than other strategies, etc?

"Not me. Im in my prime"

Feb 5, 2015

Southern Gent,

What resource would you say helped you best develop your modeling skills?
-Reading and rereading the book "Valuation" by McKinsey & Company. Also, build your own model and learn through trial and error.

Do you feel you are best suited for value investing? Or did you choose it because it was easier to learn, more popular than other strategies, etc?
-Yes, I believe I'm best suited for value investing because it fits my lifestyle and personality. My parents understood the value of purchasing goods at bargain prices and instilled that mentality into me.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jan 30, 2015

Wow you did the legwork, you deserve a job in HF. Can I connect you to one of my firneS?

Feb 3, 2015

1. $75mm might be considered mid-sized in Ethiopia.
2. Who are your firm's clients? What HF would pay for research from a 22yr old who's best credential is being a SeekingAlpha contributor? As far as I can tell, the only value of this is just so you can put "Director of Research" on the resume. You're basically a kid with an eBay store who calls himself an entrepreneur and puts "CEO and Founder" on his LinkedIn profile.
3. Who is Tom Beevers and why should we care that you two are friends? Any other names you want to drop that don't matter?

Anyway, congrats or whatever.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

Feb 5, 2015

Flake, to address your questions/comments

1.$75mm might be considered mid-sized in Ethiopia.
-Okay, good to know

2. Who are your firm's clients?
-The HF? No idea. Above my pay grade dude. I'm just there to do research. My equity research firm? One hedge fund for whom I do research for and individual investors who pay me to teach them about value investing. I'm just a one man shop managing both the business side of running a LLC, as well as the underlying research I produce. I do have a tech intern that makes my life marginally easier tho.

2. What HF would pay for research from a 22yr old who's best credential is being a SeekingAlpha contributor? As far as I can tell, the only value of this is just so you can put "Director of Research" on the resume. You're basically a kid with an eBay store who calls himself an entrepreneur and puts "CEO and Founder" on his LinkedIn profile.
-A kid that can demonstrate the ability to add value through his research. I guarantee you no HF would have responded to just my resume and cover letter alone. The two investment ideas I submitted were the primary drivers of the responses I received. Also, at the HF I work at, to gauge my ability, the PMs assigned me a research report to do and I only got the job after impressing them with it. As far as me being a kid with an eBay store who calls himself an entrepreneur goes... hahaha, can't argue with that, but employers sure love entrepreneurial spirit!

3. Who is Tom Beevers and why should we care that you two are friends? Any other names you want to drop that don't matter?
-Tom is a former portfolio manager at Newton Investment Management, one of the largest asset managers in England. I mention Tom because he is my mentor and I owe him a lot of credit for the success I've had. The purpose of mentioning my relationship with Tom is merely to highlight the importance and value of finding a professional mentor willing to provide useful assistance and advice. As long as that individual can be a great mentor as Tom has for me, who cares about who he is?... some other names I want to drop that don't matter... I just wanna thank god...

Overall, I understand your criticism and that's the beauty of it. Yes, what HF would pay for research from a 22 year old who only posts ideas on Seeking Alpha? Virtually none, but through persistence and a good mentor, I was able to find one. The purpose of my post is to help inspire kids in the same position I was in. I understand an internship experience at an IB outweighs putting "Director of Research" on my resume and employers know that as well. But, I still put it on my resume to get them to ask about it so I can respond with answer that illustrates my passion for research, investing, as well as my entrepreneurial spirit.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Feb 8, 2015

This thread is informative and the guy is only trying to help out. I don't get the hate.

Feb 11, 2015
anonguytoibd:

This thread is informative and the guy is only trying to help out. I don't get the hate.

It looks a lot like an advertisement for his website/firm

Feb 13, 2015
Gray Fox:
anonguytoibd:

This thread is informative and the guy is only trying to help out. I don't get the hate.

It looks a lot like an advertisement for his website/firm

Not at all. First off, I'm currently not actively marketing my site/firm and may shut it down soon. Secondly, my website targets investors and fund managers employing a specific strategy, and I use Seeking Alpha as my primary means of advertisement. I apologize if I came across as trying to advertise my website/firm in any way, shape, or form, but providing those links was merely to provide resources. This thread is simply trying to help people.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Feb 6, 2015

Solid article, thanks for sharing

Feb 7, 2015

thanks for sharing

Feb 10, 2015

Good stuff

Xiuli Shan

Feb 10, 2015

Good stuff

Xiuli Shan

Feb 12, 2015

Thanks for your. Can you share a list of forums/blog as seeking alpha that you found useful when learning investing by yourself?

Feb 18, 2015

Great post. Thank you for all the helpful information. Going to get grinding.

Feb 21, 2015

You're a gutsy kid and I love your positive attitude. I wish I had even half your hustle & savvy when I was your age. All the best in the future, and please don't get jaded over time. The HF industry has some of the most egotistical little pricks on the planet and being around them will sap your spirit...

A sentence of advice: Keep your expenses low, save like a muthafr, and hang out your own shingle before you hit 30.

Apr 6, 2015

Hey Dave, congratulations! I enjoyed reading your post and I find myself in a similar boat. I'm currently working on a few pitches right now, would you mind taking a look at it once I'm done?

Cheers

Apr 11, 2015

Thanks for sharing your story.

As I was/am in a similar situation as you, I have a few questions:

- Did you ever invest your own money? If so, did you ever reference your track-record/return performance?
- If not, how did you come about in order to gain credibility on your investment ideas?
- Lastly, what is your GPA and was this ever a concern/topic in your interviews?

Jul 26, 2015
HvaCapMar:

Thanks for sharing your story.

As I was/am in a similar situation as you, I have a few questions:

- Did you ever invest your own money? If so, did you ever reference your track-record/return performance?
- If not, how did you come about in order to gain credibility on your investment ideas?
- Lastly, what is your GPA and was this ever a concern/topic in your interviews?

Also Pm'd, but for everyone else-

  1. Did I ever invest my own money - Yes, I currently invest 75% of my income into equities. During college, I made my mom open a $3,000 brokerage account for me to buy stocks with. Did I ever reference my track record - Yes/no, I made a detailed excel on the stocks I recommended on Seeking Alpha. I didn't reference my specific account given the fact that a few of my positions didn't really have a thesis (BRK-B for example, I just like Buffett)
  2. GPA- Bad for hedge fund standards. Did it come up in an interview...no, not once and in total I did about 12-13 interviews. The subject of the interviews were mostly about my investment ideas.

Value investor working in the hedge fund industry.
Portfolio Manager, Analyst at a $380+ million Texas-based value investing HF.
Former Research Consultant, Analyst at a NYC-Based deep value and special situations HF.

Jul 24, 2015
Jan 3, 2016

It's been a while since anyone posted in this thread but here goes. The link to your long/short research ideas is not working. Can you please repost?

Jan 8, 2016

I think I have Dave's short thesis on one of my hard-drives, but I don't have his long thesis. I don't think he's as active as he was before since he got his analyst position. I can took a look if he doesn't respond.

Feb 10, 2016

I was also wanting to see these. Were you able to find the long idea on your hard drive?

Jan 8, 2016

Thank you for sharing. We should meet for cofee someday to talk about random value investing ideas.

May 17, 2016

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Jun 18, 2016
Nov 28, 2017

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."