How do I get along with the male other analysts in my group?

Analyst 1 in IB - Ind

How do I get along with the male other analysts in my group? Especially that they are a majority. I feel that as a female in a male-dominated industry, I can not relate to most things being said. I hate feeling left out. Any advice is appreciated.

Comments (77)

Feb 9, 2020

Here is the issue, you don't want to be friends. You just want to connect with them for social events because you feel left out. If you don't want to friends or even best friends, there is no reason to be invited to anything. Not to lie, do you hang out with people who aren't your friends or close to? Why would they want to invite you when you basically made a statement that you aren't willing to be friends, you just want to connect but that isn't enough.

"It's okay, I'll see you on the other side"

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 9, 2020

I meant I don't want to be best friends as in I don't want to be intrusive or too informal, but would definitely want to connect or be friends. I like them generally
I want to be invited because that is like almost 50% of the team always together, sharing everything, having conversations and sometimes even agreeing to doing certain work things collectively.
This ends up in me being left out socially and also when it comes to work because no one offers me to help on a project, they all agree to take certain days off or do x or y and I have no idea what's going on

Feb 9, 2020

It'll take a bit of work but if you can find ways to help them out or cover their ass sometimes, they're going to be very friendly very quickly

Feb 11, 2020

So then that doesn't describe the dynamic with all the Chads between one another Chad? I don't think that's fair to single her out when it will put her at a disadvantage

Feb 9, 2020

"I am rarely invited to drinks or anything. I always go when I am invited but I cannot relate to anything."

Italicized probably isn't good

I would recommend trying to be their friends. Ask them if they want to get lunch / coffee together. Some co-workers like going to work out together; etc. Find common interests and do those things

Controversial
Feb 9, 2020

You are not a man don't try to be one. What do you think usually makes guys want to be friends with girls ?

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Feb 10, 2020

this 100% ^^^

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Feb 9, 2020

You are not a man don't try to be one. What do you think usually makes guys want to be friends with girls ?

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Feb 10, 2020

uh oh apparently the truth brings shit

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Feb 11, 2020

Your comment is not inaccurate, it just isn't helpful at all here. She doesn't need to be good friends with all these guys, but being left out of every group social event & gathering will negatively impact her career. There are plenty of ways for her to become involved with the group social life (happy hours, etc) even though she's a woman.

  • Analyst 2 in RE - Comm
Feb 9, 2020

We have a girl at our office who fits in great. She's outgoing / friendly and has some overlapping interests with the guys.

The trick is to take an interest in the things they are interested in. You don't have to be sports guru to talk about your city's or your college's basketball team - just know what's going on. Get in on the March Madness bracket that your office will inevitably do, do a little reading on ESPN, and next thing you know you'll have conversation pieces for an entire month.

Also, say you're in a bracket with your family / friends so it doesn't look like you're taking an interest in basketball just for their sake. Better yet, you should actually do a bracket with your family or friends. Ask one of your guy friends from college to get in on one

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Feb 10, 2020

This is good advice. Somebody else pointed this out, but "I cannot relate to anything" speaks volumes.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 11, 2020

I was not raised in the US. Except for guys I date, I don't have many male acquaintances (not even best friends)so it is not like I am choosing not to know. There is so much I don't know about. I try to always be outgoing. I hated beer but now I go out and share pitchers etc. It could definitely be useful to learn about some things relating to the culture of those around me.

Feb 11, 2020
Analyst 1 in IB - Ind:

It could definitely be useful to learn about some things relating to the culture of those around me.

I mean....this is just dawning on you???

Feb 10, 2020

Is there one guy among the group that it's a little easier to get to know? Like one of them is more approachable? I would focus the energy there. Build trust with one of them somehow and then it becomes easier to get in with the rest of them.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

delete delete

Feb 10, 2020

i think you've forgotten to post anonymously...

Thank you for your interest in the 2020 Investment Banking Full-time Analyst Programme (London) at JPMorgan Chase. After a thorough review of your application, we regret to inform you that we are unable to move forward with your candidacy at this time.

Feb 10, 2020

Maybe just be patient? Sorry for the non-answer but you're already getting occasionally invited to things. I feel like if you do nothing at all to improve the situation, it will still naturally improve over time. Next time y'all get beer just participate in the convo even if you don't know anything. Just admit you don't know anything but ask questions instead.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Feb 13, 2020

If I were you I'd just be honest with this guy. Don't worry about being clingy, just tell him that you would like to get to know the team a little bit better but are finding it difficult because you are naturally shy. This isn't high school, he's not going to go and shit talk you behind your back. He sounds like he's already noticed and is trying to help you. Don't put these guys on a pedestal and just be confident in your ability to have a genuine conversation about something non-work related that you are passionate about.

A very similar situation happened at my workplace and we took the female analyst under our wing and got her involved in office banter. All it took was her approaching me and mentioning that she was shy and wanted to get to know the team better. Up to that point, the rest of the guys assumed she wasn't that keen on socialising with us. Yes there are going to be occasions where us guys hang out without her as we have all been really tight knit for a long time and share similar hobbies, but if we organise something during work hours in front of her we make it clear that she is welcome to come along and make an effort to treat her as one of us. At the end of the day she is in the trenches with and is part of our team so we want her to feel included and to fit in.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Feb 10, 2020

This is the best advice - find the guy who's more approachable/you get along with the best and build a friendship. You'll automatically find yourself invited to more events.

Feb 11, 2020

Lol then when you don't fuck him he's gonna get pissed and then everyone's gonna ostracize you.

Most Helpful
  • VP in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

Invite them to drinks w your female friends. They'll follow

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

delete

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Feb 10, 2020

maybe he has a crush on you ? could be romantic

  • VP in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

Maybe you have other friends who are not analysts in the bank or not all from same school, but that's tough in banking sometime.

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Feb 10, 2020

First off are you attractive ? I'm not trying to sound like a dick , but in the companies I've worked at I had the chance to work wit guys and girls. The boys would stick together but we would always also hang out with the beautiful girls for some reason. Not because they were cute, but because they had confidence and weren't afraid of putting themselves out there. The girls we didn't really talk to were not attractive , but they also were shy and didn't make any effort to get to know us.

Conclusion: make an effort to seem less shy and be more outgoing ; it helps if you are hot , but that has more psych effects such as confidence then anything else

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Feb 10, 2020

i disagree with this - it doesn't matter if you are attractive.

you are correct about confidence, though. many of my closer female work friends aren't smoke shows, but they're confident, chilled people that are decent to spend time around.

OP - just be confident in who you are, if you don't get along with some of the guys then that's fine. if you want to be included more, you could always just ask to get involved more, or set up more social events yourself.

Thank you for your interest in the 2020 Investment Banking Full-time Analyst Programme (London) at JPMorgan Chase. After a thorough review of your application, we regret to inform you that we are unable to move forward with your candidacy at this time.

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Funniest
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Feb 10, 2020

as much as I dont want to believe looks dont matter, but its incredibly important. Not only does it instill confidence (who has met a rocket who isnt social and outgoing?), but people naturally gravitate to good looking or beautiful people.

Regarding your female friends that aren't smoke shows, are they at least cute or decent? The girls i have worked with have not all been 10's, but the ones we hang out with are generally 7 and above. The ones who are lonely and aren't part of the "crew" are genuinely 6 and below. I feel that its possible for a 6 and maybe a 5 to have that confidence, but if you are below a 5, even confidence might not be enough. If i am a hot shot banker, I wouldnt want to be seen with a duster and I mean that with respect.

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Feb 10, 2020

We have two girls in my office, both get along with the guys but one is invited to the 'boys' events/outings more often because she's more open-minded and happy to indulge in 'boys discussions' without putting them down or having that #metoo/feminist/environmental or whatever attitude that's just quite frankly annoying.

I never would worry about inviting a girl if I know having her doesn't break that 'safe-space' bubble where I can still talk about pretty much everything I would if only the guys were there.

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  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Feb 10, 2020

Which one is the cuter one ? I'm guessing the one you bring to the outings ..

Feb 10, 2020

I can honestly and confidently say both are very, very similar on the looks scale and I couldn't put one above another.

One was brought up in a more bro-y environment and area and the other one in a more sheltered environment & girls only school. Naturally the latter gets shitty when some things are said while the other one joins into the conversation and is happy to go out for drinks if the other girl isn't coming (doesn't happen the other way).

Feb 10, 2020

Hey, fellow girl here.
I think you are doing great, don't sweat it. You don't need to be their best friend, and the worse you could do would be to force things and pressure them as well as yourself. It is ok to be an introvert. As a fellow introvert, I find that it hasn't hurt my network at all. In fact, you may not have the largest network but you can build meaningful relationships based on respect and empathy. Try to be a team player and a good listener, to help when you can, to genuinely be interested in others and generally have a positive outlook when in the office. You don't need to fake a passion for ESPN, fantasy football etc., stay true to yourself. With time, they will let you in. The worse you could do would be coming across as inauthentic, panicked or hateful because (and I agree it is unfair) as a female in a male-dominated field, being left out of the boys' club can hurt.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

delete

Feb 10, 2020

Take it easy, be yourself and be nice to "the guys". It will take some time, but either they notice you're ok and start melting the ice, or they don't and probably it's better they keep to their own. It's not always easy to break into a group, so give yourself (and them) time. Chances are you'll never belong to their "best buddies", but probably you don't want to be it either. So patience, confidence, charm (somebody mentioned avoiding extreme positions on metoo, environmental, vegan or whatever) and perhaps finding out who's approachable (even starting by some more experienced/seniors). Don't care about the rubbish about the cute girl. Yeah, they may have this advantage at start, but character trumps. Good luck, keep us posted how it goes.

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Feb 10, 2020

there must be some kind of pattern...days of the week and type of work day that the guys go out for drinks after work. I'd suggest once a week you be proactive and ask the guys you are semi-friendly with, ask if they are going to drinks after work...perhaps suggest a fun place. Very often guys just don't feel cofortable asking girls out...even its a group social thing...especially in this #metoo situation, guys will be on their toes to avoid risk. However, if you ask them...then it should be easier for them to socialize with you.

So, i'd suggest you scope out a few places where you think your crew would have fun...and then ask them to grab drinks there after work. This is very simple. Take an interest in the things they are interested in...maybe you'll find you can have fun that way.

Feb 10, 2020

Support the above

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Feb 10, 2020

Seconded

Feb 15, 2020

This. Invite them out for drinks to blow off steam, you won't have to invite them every time but once they see that you are willing to take some initiative to be involved they'll feel more inclined to include you without having to think about it too much.

Feb 10, 2020

Some quick thoughts:

  1. I think you are putting far too much pressure on the concept of "best friends". You can be friends, or at least social acquaintances, without having to spend a ton of time together
  2. If you want to engage with them, be proactive and ask if they want to grab happy hour, run and pick up dinner, etc. It doesn't have to be a hang out during the limited hours you have off. They may sense that you aren't interested in being their friend and if you are more receptive to hanging out, even if only during working hours, you will become more part of the social construct
  3. They can respect you for your work, but if you aren't friendly and engaging in terms of conversation, it's hard for them to ever want to invite you to events
  4. I disagree a little with the premise that you need to adopt or embrace their interests in order to be social with them. As a person of a similar age, you don't need to start talking sports if that isn't your thing. You just need to try and be more outgoing and show that you want to be included in whatever the group is doing.

I'm obviously not speaking from experience and I'm sure it's not easy being a female in a male-dominated profession, but you can help bridge the perceived gap between you and them with some of the above.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 11, 2020

delete

Feb 10, 2020

I think you don't need to be friends, but rather try to develop some helpfulness / skills that you can do in the office that make you indispensable to the team. This, plus being approachable and nice will be how you rise.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 10, 2020

I think that's a great idea. THanks!!
I try my best to always volunteer when anyone is facing a problem, and I'm often called for any questions about how to get things or when computers shut down.

Feb 11, 2020

Hi,
Basically i can give you some tips to interact better. You could try talking with them regarding other stuffs than work. Any new movie or some topic would really help in developing a conversation. Food will also connect people. Try out some dishes and give them mentioning you did it for them. People out there doesnt like to be left alone too. They will understand you soon and start talking with you! All the best on socializing!

Feb 11, 2020

I think you should social engineer their ass. Use all those crazy psychology tricks. Neg them, play on their insecurities, turn them against each other. Then you can stand triumphant above the body heap once the carnage is done.

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Feb 11, 2020

Be a little proactive on the lunch. Instead of waiting to be invited, say "Hey guys, I was gonna check out this new spot XYZ for lunch. Want to come along?"

-95% chance that they will say yes and very likely that they'll reciprocate the next time around.

Feb 11, 2020

A lot of interesting points here. OP - How much do you talk to people in the office about non work stuff. Simple stuff on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon like: How was the weekend or what are your plans? If you hear someone mutter some complaint about work, you can ask like one question about it, let that person vent and give them a whole "go get em, I feel the pain" kind of thing.

Literally 1-2 questions. Nod, listen (or pretend to), and then say something like "cool, hang in there buddy" or "have fun!" or whatever. You can even script it out. Banking is rife with awkward people so no need to sweat it.

I am sure this will increase the chances of others asking about you and then maybe inviting you out. If they do, you should totally go. Even if its just for one drink. Smile, say hi, be pleasant and then go home because "you don't drink much" or "have work" or whatever.

Covering for people? Worth doing but not habitually because then everyone may take advantage of it, you may not get credit and despite working hard you may get passed over for raises/promotions etc (because that NEVER happens to women and minorities, right?). That said, as people like and get to know you, they will help and cover for you too and that's important. Give and take.

These kinds of social things are really important, not just now but in the future as people's career paths diverge. That network will be a potentially huge one and something that is useful. Play the long game.

Good Luck

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Feb 11, 2020

I was once in the opposite situation, I was somehow the only male analyst in a group with 4 other female juniors. I could not relate to them and did not even try, we just kept things professional and friendly. I would eat at my desk while they talked about the Kardashians.

Array

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Feb 11, 2020

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but we (we as in us men) have a huge spectrum of interests from sports, movies, T.V., art, books, comedy shows, theatre, interesting articles on web from a range of topics from like psychology to sociology, to economics etc etc.

So I get that you aren't into sports and I agree with most posters in saying don't fake being a fan of a sports team and waste your time reading espn.com if that isn't your thing. People will see through it and you just come off as disingenuous. I actually cringe when a non-sports fan (either man or woman) spouts off some random fact or stat that is kinda right, but kinda out of plac at the same time.

Find one of the things above that you have in common your co-workers and talk about that. A huge thing that I easily can find in common with someone is what T.V. Shows we like or movie we like in common. Before it ended, I could talk about GOT ad naseum with a bed post or even a show like grey's anatomy. I don't know single person that doesn't enjoy movies. How about a book you are reading or have read in the past. An interesting article you read about psychology or social behaviours. A topic o major event that's going on the world. You didn't grow up in the States so maybe share your thoughts on differences between what's going in the tates to where you grew up. Maybe you are into art and like to go to the Chelsea galleries on Thursday or you go to the Met one the weekends. Guys are not one dimensional where all we do is grunt, watch sports, and eat giant turkey legs for dinner. There are so many topics/interests we enjoy but the only way to find out is to talk to them about their interests over a coffee.

It just sounds like you don't know your colleagues at all and the key is just get to know them.

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Feb 12, 2020

Another thing is guys usually know when you (a girl) just want to be "friends to a certain extent" and actually keep a distance and do not really get to know them. Under this particular circumstance, even if you are attractive, a point which I do not want touch on, you will find it difficult to bond with them.

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Feb 12, 2020

They don't want to hang out with you because you are a liability. This is the truth, don't yell at me for telling you.

Array

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Feb 12, 2020

oh hello there fellow introvert. lol

  • Analyst 2 in CorpFin
Feb 13, 2020

I think from what I've seen, the most important answers are already in this thread:
- You're in a male dominated industry. If you want to be "in", you can't make anyone feel threatened. Guys want to bro out. If they trust that they can bro out with you / that they're still in a safe space when you're around, you've mostly solved the gender problem.
- In the vein of bro-ing out, office romance = completely off limits. If a girl flirts, it changes the dynamic. It opens the game / defines the lines that then can't be recrossed.
- Add value in at least some way. In any close group of people, everyone has their "thing" that they add to the group by being themselves. Be yourself, and contribute - if it's interesting perspectives on literature, work-politics advice, or whatever, just add something.
- Make sure you're professionally respected. If you're working in banking, and you're a toxic asset professionally, it's unlikely anyone will want to be near you regardless of gender. On the flipside, if you're good, people will want to be near you regardless of gender.
- Let them get to know you. Ideally in a way that makes you at least somewhat vulnerable. Trust begets trust.

We have a girl in my office that doesn't sound that different than you. She was at one point the only female analyst (and later 1 of 2). Highly introverted. Doesn't drink much or get fucked up. She is my best friend at the office, even though we're not on the same team anymore + has friends throughout the office. Her process:
1. Go out to lunch with the other analysts - initially in groups, and then 1:1s.
2. Be a really good analyst and open to helping with everything however possible.
3. Be fun and interesting at work drinks. Her first analyst drinks, we heard about her drug-fueled orgy experience in college. I've never heard anything about her sex life again. But, once you hear that, and you know the topic is open if you want to go there, as a guy you don't feel unsafe.
4. Be the person who everyone can come to with their work problems. She reads politics, and can coach people through.
5. Open the door to life outside of work. She invited the other analysts out with her college friends. We've invited her out with our college friends. Even if everyone is different, smart people tend to be friends with smart people, and like hanging out with other smart people.

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  • Analyst 1 in IB - Ind
Feb 15, 2020
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  • Analyst 2 in CorpFin
Feb 15, 2020
Feb 16, 2020