I literally just lost my internship to a blonde girl from Greenwich :(

I go to a target. A UMM PE firm that I guarantee you all have heard of posted for a sophomore diversity internship on our job board. Their post said, "we invite diversity candidates including, but not limited to, candidates who are African American, Hispanic, Native American, Women, LGBTQ, First-Gen College students." Or something along these lines.

Since I'm a first-gen student, and I don't really get to use these diversity programs often, I decided to apply. Was lucky enough to get an interview. I'm an asian male, first-gen college student who grew up in a low income household, and a first gen immigrant. I made sure to tell my story because they asked about my diverse background. I had technicals and behaviorals down pat, and as someone who flunked plenty of interviews freshman year and knows what it is like to make a mistake during an interview, I self-awarely felt like this one went really well. Through a series of interviews my interviewers, including the main guy who was walking me through the process, were really impressed with me. The main guy seemed sure that I would get the offer. Well, a couple days ago, I got a call back from that guy. He apologized, thanked me for my time, and informed me that apparently his higher-ups were strongly pushing for a female candidate. It turns out the girl who got the offer was from my school. At my school, all the finance-centric kids kinda know each other or have each other on linkedin. It turns out that the girl who got the offer is LITERALLY from Greenwich. Her dad is also LITERALLY a partner at an alternative investments firm. This chick has nothing so far worthwhile on her resume, and through our interactions in clubs n stuff, has seemed kinda clueless. I can't help but feel like I was the better candidate objectively and I come from a more deserving background, if you even want to argue that background should be considered. Either way, it doesn't matter. Fuck me.

I'm sorry, I definitely do support women in finance and diversity in finance in broad terms. I just needed to vent for a second. Overall, I do think like I'm in a great place for actual IB recruiting in terms of my resume and I'm likely to land an offer from my target. There are definitely kids at nontargets and whatnot who don't get the opportunities I receive and have it worse than me.

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Comments (121)

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 22, 2021 - 6:18pm

Sorry, unfortunately that's a scenario in which you (and even most other diversity candidates) will lose every time. She qualifies for diversity AND she's connected. Just really doesn't make sense from a business perspective to go with any other candidate. Keep grinding king.

  • VP in PE - LBOs
Sep 22, 2021 - 8:50pm

I mean, to be fair to OP, he literally qualified that by saying "if you even want to argue that background should be considered". He's not saying he believes that he deserves it because of his background, but if you want to argue that background matters (which is wrong in itself), then by that logic his would be the more deserving. I think he's just getting at the fact that diversity hiring practices are fucked and my sympathy is with him in that regard.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Sep 23, 2021 - 1:44am

Yes, fucked up. 

A former classmate of mine ended up at a big balance sheet bank's middle office as an analyst back then. She was not competent at all and had a very bad reputation among students --- we worked in groups. 

Sep 27, 2021 - 5:24pm

Asian males are considered an overrepresented group in finance even if you are a first-generation student. I went to a target school that was very first-generation Asian heavy. It was actually harder to find a non first-generation asian student in my class. I'm all for being against diversity quotas, but I don't really buy into OP's sense of entitlement just because he is a first-gen.

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Sep 23, 2021 - 10:07pm

"Deserve is an impossible thing to decide.  No one deserves anything.  Thank God we don't get what we deserve."  - Milton Friedman

I come from down in the valley, where mister when you're young, they bring you up to do like your daddy done

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  • Associate 1 in IB - Restr
Sep 22, 2021 - 6:35pm

The cream always rises to the top. If she's really as clueless, and you're really as bright as you say, she will be working in investor relations in no time and you'll probably get your opportunity. Of course, there's always the chance that she was actually a contender but I'm sure you don't want to talk about that option

  • VP in PE - LBOs
Sep 23, 2021 - 1:55pm

Do you really believe that? Maybe I'm jaded but I know my MF preemptively reached out to setup coffee chats for this cycle for pretty much every female analyst at every top group/bank. It plays a role in vp/principal/partner promotes where I am as well. I'm not an incel, I identify as a liberal and a feminist, and am happily engaged. But you're lying to yourself if you think people can't fail upwards in this industry. Both men and women do it all the time. We aren't doing rocket science.

Sep 27, 2021 - 5:21pm

OP sounds like he is letting his bitterness cloud his judgement. My undergrad was very first-generation asian heavy and a lot of the students had OP's sense of resentment and entitlement. 

  • Intern in PE - LBOs
Sep 22, 2021 - 7:15pm

I'd rather be a straight white male than a straight Asian male tbh. Grown up around basically only white people all my life and consistently something I've seen is like 40% of white guys act awkward or weird when interacting with me, since I'm like the only Asian person they've ever encountered (hyperbole) and they have weird expectations of you bc of this. I think this is less the case in more professional and experienced demographics rather than awkward white teenagers so should be fine for networking and stuff though.

Sep 24, 2021 - 12:40am

The hiring practices at my University will give employers a 75% wage subsidy given that the candidate is either:

  1. A first year student 
  2. Minority
  3. Woman

Being a white male in anything but first year is a huge disadvantage, even if they're a better candidate, since they likely won't be better than 3 other candidates combined. I'm Indian, so these practises undoubtedly benefited me.

Sep 24, 2021 - 1:07am

So they pay 75% of a student's wage if they get hired?  
 

Women are 60% of college students.  Minorities are a pretty big chunk too, and first years are a little over 25%.  So your college is paying the wages of the vast majority of its students?

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 22, 2021 - 7:23pm

Such is life. The attractive, tall, and rich (and usually White) people are those who most easily achieve success. Tough shit if you don't fit the aforementioned; after all, we can't all be successful, can we

Sep 22, 2021 - 7:29pm

Little bit of stereotyping on your end as well. I get it, it sucks, but zero chance you're beating her dad here (which is what happened).

Weird move for the interviewer to even share that with you. Echoing what some of the other folks here said, if you're that good keep grinding and you'll find something. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 27, 2021 - 9:18pm

How does one "become better looking"? Plastic surgery excepting (and most plastic surgeries, unless you have connections to the cream of the crop plastic surgeons in, say, South Korea, end horribly), there's literally nothing one can do if they're born ugly

Oct 4, 2021 - 3:18pm

This is an underrated component for sure. Good looking & fit = cool. That awkward joke you made or mannerisms you display? Well it's endearing and cute if it's from an attractive person, while creepy/weird if from an ugly dude. Unfortunately, Asian people have an uphill battle in this regard while women (especially attractive ones) have a strong advantage. 

Being able to do a job is one part of the interview, but another is 'fit' and if you seem like a normal/fun/interesting person then that will check the box pretty fast. Some nerdy quant who lives in excel wont jump off the page. But a cute blonde girl? Well attractive = fun so if she can do the bare minimum of the job she will likely jump ahead. Just look at any big 4 class for example. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
Sep 22, 2021 - 7:52pm

Wdym you "lost" "your" internship....it was never "yours" so you didn't "lose" anything. You reek of entitlement. 

Sep 25, 2021 - 9:44am

seriously. This is such a WSO post. Title and all. Kids on here are so cringey without an iota of self awareness

  • 1
Sep 22, 2021 - 9:02pm

I understand you're upset but welcome to life. Life isn't fair - get over it. You're complaining on the internet over an internship, meanwhile kids are born into poverty in Africa to face a life devoid of modern amenities. You've had your time to complain now move on with your life.

Sep 24, 2021 - 11:57pm

LOL I love the logic of this site. When OP is a straight while male who feels like they lost a role to a *shudders* minority or woman, then everyone -- as if on cue -- talks about how BS the system is and that the "most qualified people" (read: straight white men) should be getting these jobs while the "least qualified people" (AKA women and URMs) are having it way too easy in life and they're just wasting space in the industry.

BUT, as soon as it's a NON-straight-white-male who even hints at a smidge of unfairness in the hiring process, then suddenly you have these "most qualified people" chirping about how "LiFe iS uNfAiR. gEt UsEd tO iT."

Kudos to the minorities and women who face this bullshit and still do well in the industry. Really amazing with all the obstacles in their way.

  • VP in PE - LBOs
Sep 28, 2021 - 12:54am

I mean, the top voted comment literally was "hey it could be worse, you could be a straight white male." You're absolutely right.

Controversial
  • Associate 1 in HF - Event
Sep 23, 2021 - 5:19am

OP is an asian male, the girl is a blonde chick of higher socio-eco class.

Now she will be surrounded by all the high finance guys at that UMM shop and their affiliates.

The odd is not in OP's favour.

  • Associate 1 in HF - Event
Sep 22, 2021 - 9:12pm

Intern in PE - LBOs

 "we invite diversity candidates including, but not limited to, candidates who are African American, Hispanic, Native American, Women, LGBTQ, First-Gen College students."

A bit off topic here.

As an Asian male grew up in a blue collar single parent household (dad passed away due to alcoholism), I don't know why I bursted out a manic laugh reading these diversity categories.

Sep 27, 2021 - 12:05am

Also off topic. I can relate to your background. I am middle eastern, grew up in a working class family, and raised by a single mother following my dads death at a young age. I find it challenging to relate to peers but I will still make an effort to fit in. Hooray for us for not being in jail and not becoming a statistic lol

  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 22, 2021 - 9:25pm

FYI - I think this post can easily identify who you are, depending on your schools finance circle

yeah It sucks ass, but the power of the P wins almost every time in my experience. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 23, 2021 - 4:38pm

Sorry but unless OP wants the possibility of a sexual assault case, there's no way a bitter Asian male will woo a (probably very) attractive rich blonde

Sep 23, 2021 - 2:08am

"You deserve the styrofoam cup…" as an adult,, you are not entitled to anything. An emotionally rich early career with lots of downs will only make the victory that much sweeter when you get there. Stay humble, keep grinding, and remember that all humans act in their own best interest. You will succeed in life by making the lives of others easier and supporting their goals, not because you deserve it.

Sep 23, 2021 - 6:41am

When you apply for a position, you do not always get it.  The fact you are saying that you deserved the position more than her and that the interviewers were impressed with you, suggests you may have a big ego.  Interviewers can pick up on things like this and determine that you are not a good fit for the team, even though you may be qualified. If they wanted to hire a female, you probably did not have a good chance from the beginning of the process.  

  • 3
Sep 23, 2021 - 7:05am

2020 grad white guy here non finance family. That's just part of the game now. Happened to me for full time spots at BB…like a lot, it was almost always a girl who beat me out in the final rounds. It's nice to have more opportunities for people not in the industry and bring them in but unfortunately a good amount of the diversity programs are exploited by insiders (my Hispanic ex with an MD BB Dad for example haha). Chin up you'll make it eventually by being a good team fit. Sucks now but this will build you up and make you more ready.

  • Analyst 1 in CorpFin
Sep 23, 2021 - 6:15pm

Same thing here. Interviewed at a lot of places and besides being qualified, the final rounds I lost to females and/or minorities (they told me for some reason). It happens, you move on and get ready for the next opportunity. Getting to the end means you're doing something right so keep that in mind too

Sep 26, 2021 - 2:47pm

Same thing here. Interviewed at a lot of places and besides being qualified, the final rounds I lost to females and/or minorities (they told me for some reason). It happens, you move on and get ready for the next opportunity. Getting to the end means you're doing something right so keep that in mind too

Im calling BS on this haha. There's no way established places are telling you that you lost to minorities/women.  Complete BS. Maybe you should be better than the otehr white guys you're competing with. If you were, you'd have a job.

  • Associate 3 in HF - EquityHedge
Sep 23, 2021 - 10:27am

You were not the best candidate for this job. If you were, they would have hired you.

The trick is, how YOU define "best candidate" is probably based on objective measures like modeling skills. You may even be objectively better at softer skills e.g. how articulate or socially engaging you are.

You need to understand that this is not always how employers define "best candidate". Just think about this logically. If they were really optimizing for the candidate who can tackle models most accurately and efficiently, you'd have gotten the job. But the firm may find it more valuable to have someone whose connections enables them to source deals they wouldn't have been able to access. Do you think your superior modeling skills could possibly add more than that to the firm's bottom line? The firm clearly didn't think so, or they would have hired you over her. By the way, the firm is not going to tell you this explicitly! They are going to stick with their shtick of "we looking for advanced excel modeling and quantitative skills" which is why people like you that take things at face value are going to be confused af. It's on YOU to read between the lines, use your brain, and figure out what is really going on.

In a nutshell: she was the better candidate *for the firm's purposes* even if you were the better candidate by your own standards. The sooner you can move past that, the better off you'll be. Sorry if this sounds like a dick thing to say but I'm really coming from a place of trying to help you.

Sep 23, 2021 - 11:10am

The point is that if she has connections she shouldn't be a "diversity" candidate.

Array

  • 2
Sep 24, 2021 - 1:48pm

People in college focus way too much on the technical skills. That's just table stakes. If you can build a better model than her or are more comfortable walking through financial statements than her but she still grasps most of it then that difference wont matter to the firm.

If her dads connections can be leveraged then that isn't nepotism but tangible value that can be brought to the firm. If she is attractive then that's just unfair but people would rather spend their office time with someone 'fun' and 'cool' (aka hot) than a finance grunt. OP wont learn this but with experience as most were the same way, but soft skills grow in importance as you get older.

Self awarenss, coachability, charisma, ability to sell, etc. all will matter more than just raw technical skills long run

  • Associate 3 in PE - Other
Sep 25, 2021 - 2:50am

You were not the best candidate for this job. If you were, they would have hired you.

Lol I stopped reading here

Sep 23, 2021 - 12:09pm

Weirdly enough, in your business, she actually may have been more qualified. Given that financial service revenue production is chiefly about contacts, "her" contacts kind of make her more qualified. It does show, however, how diversity in Hollywood and Wall Street and Silicon Valley can be fake diversity.

Array

  • 4
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 23, 2021 - 2:06pm

Totally agree. This is a relationship based business. Her classmates from grade school and her neighbors are all going to be in management positions big companies. She's going to be much more valuable in this sense because she can say "I know that guy, we summered in the hamptons together. Let me give him a call." It's who you know, not what you know. Anyone can learn technicals, not everyone can have the right connections. 

Sep 26, 2021 - 2:51pm

Memberberries

Weirdly enough, in your business, she actually may have been more qualified. Given that financial service revenue production is chiefly about contacts, "her" contacts kind of make her more qualified. It does show, however, how diversity in Hollywood and Wall Street and Silicon Valley can be fake diversity.

We have the answer to life here, folks. Being well connected (much easier when white and attractive) here means you ARE more qualified. Minorities and Women, no point in fighting for your place in this world. Accept your fate and let the White Man put you in your place. /s

Sep 26, 2021 - 5:46pm

That's a step further than what I'm saying. My point is, connections in a business that produces revenue through connections makes you a more valuable catch than, say, someone who works really hard. The world isn't fair. 

Array

Sep 23, 2021 - 4:16pm

Intern in PE - LBOs

I come from a more deserving background, if you even want to argue that background should be considered.

You learned something about life today, and it's that nothing will be handed to you. As a child of recent immigrants myself, it's something to struggle with, but it's not the worst thing in the world (which would probably be the life your parents left behind so you could have opportunities like this).

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.

  • 1
Sep 23, 2021 - 8:36pm

Don't really know what else is to say other than life isn't fair. In fact, life is one of the most unfair things you'll ever have the displeasure of experiencing. I'm not going to sugar coat this; get used to people less-deserving than you getting opportunities that you can't. All you can do is keep working hard and hope for the best, there's really no point in throwing a pity party about it.

Sep 24, 2021 - 2:31am

Go to your parents and tell them: sorry, this country has gone stupid, let's go back to Asia because at least we won't get discriminated based on our race.

And then warn Asia about how the liberals ruined America.

Never discuss with idiots, first they drag you at their level, then they beat you with experience.

  • 2
  • 1
Sep 24, 2021 - 11:21am

Everyone does not start out on an even playing field. Why worry about things you can't control? You're an Asian male. Under the current paradigm, Asian males are given the short end of the stick (maybe even the shortest - you can argue this but what's even the point). Complaining about it will not help you. The only logical course is either to (1) forget race is even a factor, or (2) to use the injustice of it as fuel for your fire. Just please don't be one of the analysts who finds every opportunity to bring this topic up. It makes a person look like a bitch. 

Sep 24, 2021 - 1:33pm

Rumple4skin

Everyone does not start out on an even playing field. Why worry about things you can't control? You're an Asian male. Under the current paradigm, Asian males are given the short end of the stick (maybe even the shortest - you can argue this but what's even the point). Complaining about it will not help you. The only logical course is either to (1) forget race is even a factor, or (2) to use the injustice of it as fuel for your fire. Just please don't be one of the analysts who finds every opportunity to bring this topic up. It makes a person look like a bitch. 

I agree with this.  Asian males may be given the short end of the stick because their grades and scores are higher than those of other groups.    While grades and scores give you an edge, it is not the only criteria that schools and employers use in hiring and admittance decisions.  There are plenty of CEOs and extraordinary wealthy people who did not have elite grades and scores.  Many of them probably networked their asses off to get ahead.  If you feel like you are getting the short end of the stick, figure out another way to get ahead.  

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  • 1
Sep 25, 2021 - 3:34pm

Rumple4skin

Everyone does not start out on an even playing field. Why worry about things you can't control? You're an Asian male. Under the current paradigm, Asian males are given the short end of the stick (maybe even the shortest - you can argue this but what's even the point). Complaining about it will not help you. The only logical course is either to (1) forget race is even a factor, or (2) to use the injustice of it as fuel for your fire. Just please don't be one of the analysts who finds every opportunity to bring this topic up. It makes a person look like a bitch. 

Major hypocrisy on this sub. When an Asian guy complains, the response is "stop complaining, get used to unfair playing fields." When a white guy complains about supposedly losing a spot to a minority/woman, the whole sub loses its collective hive-mind and half the responses are about how everything is unfair and "the most qualified" (AKA white guys) people should be getting these jobs.

This is why the backlash against privileged white guys is growing by the day. If you are "Other," you're supposed to take it up the ass and smile. When you're Master Race, the world is supposed to bend to you and anytime something doesn't go your way, it's the fault of the unqualified, cheating "Other."

Sep 25, 2021 - 9:56pm

Astrosfan88

Rumple4skin

Everyone does not start out on an even playing field. Why worry about things you can't control? You're an Asian male. Under the current paradigm, Asian males are given the short end of the stick (maybe even the shortest - you can argue this but what's even the point). Complaining about it will not help you. The only logical course is either to (1) forget race is even a factor, or (2) to use the injustice of it as fuel for your fire. Just please don't be one of the analysts who finds every opportunity to bring this topic up. It makes a person look like a bitch. 

- expand -

Major hypocrisy on this sub. When an Asian guy complains, the response is "stop complaining, get used to unfair playing fields." When a white guy complains about supposedly losing a spot to a minority/woman, the whole sub loses its collective hive-mind and half the responses are about how everything is unfair and "the most qualified" (AKA white guys) people should be getting these jobs.

This is why the backlash against privileged white guys is growing by the day. If you are "Other," you're supposed to take it up the ass and smile. When you're Master Race, the world is supposed to bend to you and anytime something doesn't go your way, it's the fault of the unqualified, cheating "Other."

I could have missed these posts but when have white males identified themselves as white while complaining about affirmative action.  

From what I have seen, Asian males identify themselves as Asian while complaining about affirmative action.  

  • 1
Sep 29, 2021 - 8:16am

Except he literally applied for an affirmative action job.  The fuck was he expecting to happen?  Obviously the focus would be towards women and underrepresented minorities, and he's from an ethnic group that is overrepresented.

Sep 30, 2021 - 8:27am

If you look at my other comment on this thread itself you might sense I'm sick of hearing similar attitudes from white guys too. I think white males have even less of a leg to stand on, because it's incredibly easy to find a fellow white man at the highest echelons of (almost) any organization. That fact alone gives you an advantage -- the probability that you will be able to successfully build relationships through networking increases significantly the more things you have in common.

That said, we don't live in an environment where talking about this helps anyone. So again, what is the point?

Sep 24, 2021 - 1:39pm

"I'm sorry, I definitely do support women in finance and diversity in finance in broad terms. I just needed to vent for a second."

That's your problem buddy. Need to rewire your thinking. You were taught your entire life how much easier men have it and how hard it is to break in if you are a woman - this is plainly false. Especially if they are decently attractive, and especially if they have connections. When it comes to working a job an interview does two things. A: Can you do the job and B: how would you fit on the team/be ok to work with. Too many people focus on the first part over the second. If you're some finance nerd who lives in excel but cant hold a conversation you will be cleaned out by women on the interview trail whose gender warrants them additional social status by default

You just lost a job based on some DE&I bullshit and you are so guilty of what's between your legs that you are still apologizing for it. You've been brainwashed. shit happens, nepotism is everywhere. Deal with it take what is yours and dont apologize for who you are ever

  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Sep 24, 2021 - 2:28pm

Corporate diversity hiring isn't built to hire the person who checks the most boxes for "historically oppressed demographics" - if it was, they'd be staffing deal teams with subsistence farmers from third world countries who, I promise, have it worse than you, me, or anyone else on this website.

It's built to hire the best candidate who checks the diversity box - do you qualify as a historically disadvantaged [racial, ethnic, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic, etc.] minority? Great, you're in the pool of diversity candidates - now they're going to hire their preferred candidates from that pool. Best in this case can be what they think maximizes their profile or connections down the line, not necessarily the best resume today.

If that means they fill their class with wealthy, politically-connected immigrants from non-white countries and female or LGBT children of major clients, then they're probably thrilled with what that outcome means for their bottom line

  • Intern in IB - Cov
Sep 28, 2021 - 7:11pm

I'm so happy I have an offer, you guys are ruthless dicks to outsiders lmfao I fucking hate the type of people in banking. I really feel for you OP, rich white women are amongst the worst type of human being to deal with on earth.

Sep 29, 2021 - 10:46am

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DC
  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 29, 2021 - 12:24pm

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  • Associate 3 in IB - Cov
Sep 29, 2021 - 3:47pm

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