Lateral move from IBD to S&T (and vice versa)
Just curious about how this would work. Lets say I started full time in IBD, but what I really wanted to do was to work in S&T (or vice versa). When, and how should I ask to make the switch? Should I be telling HR, MDs in my banking group, or MDs in S&T? When is the appropriate time to ask/let them know (immediately or 1 or 2 years later after establishing myself as a good analyst?)
Also, would I have to start from the bottom again?
From what I have read/seen its hard to move from S&T to IBD. IBD to certain trading desks can be done - just network!
bump - any other insight?
bump again
bump again
IBD to S&T - Increasingly interested in the markets (Originally Posted: 04/18/2010)
Hey I'm in IBD, but becoming increasingly interested in the markets. I have no real experience, I've not got time to open my own trading account and trade.
What are the considerations for moving into Trading - i.e. how would I do it, is it a good move if I want to ultimately go into a HF?
Many thanks.
Also interested in this as well.....
IBD to S&T movement (Originally Posted: 02/28/2007)
How easy/difficult is it to move between IBD and S&T. Specifically from IBD to Sales or structuring?
Just wondeirng....whether one would be bale to explore the various desks or whether is stuck to one's desk.
Depends on your background.. if you are history , arts, languagues major etc forget it..
however when you have a master in finance and done e.g. internships in markets sales and started in ibd and want to go back to sales it is relatively easy
I've said it before but I started like this, though as an intern, email and introduce yourself to the heads of desks and let your boss know u want to move - mine supported me and I ended up with a recommendation from one of our global heads....
computer engineering background....how abt if I spend say a year in IBd and then look at moving to capital markets to explore...what do u reckon r my chances? wud i have to switch banks or else do ppl wanting to explore just move within the same bank? ~cheers
IB - Corp Fin to S&T in a Bank? (Originally Posted: 11/08/2006)
Just wondering if it is possible to transfer from IB (Industry or product group) to trading in a Bank at Associate level? I completed a Summer Associate internship at a BB and I have an offer for 2007. After talking to people working in S&T, I am leaning towards S&T. Any ideas / comments?
possible but not sure at what level. besides why get out of IB-Corp Fin when the rest of the market wants to get in.
wouldn't be worth it. You probably wouldn't qualify for the hottest desks in S&T anyway, so you'd be better off in banking.
If you've got an offer after your internship, call up the other banks and let them know about your offer and that you want to apply with them - they should fast track you through the application process.
leverage the offer...also I is best to stick with Corp Fin at least for the 1st 2 years out
would also depend somewhat on what banks it's at...soms banks are quite flexible with regards to cross-divisional transfers, with others it's impossible to move around.
.
I spoke to a couple of people working in various quant and derivatives desks. They all mentioned that since I spent my summer was in Corp Fin and I don't have previous financial experience (consulting -> banking), it would be tough to switch to S&T. I guess I will end up being a Corp Fin monkey for a while!
Thanks for the feedback.
IB to S&T resume (Originally Posted: 11/02/2013)
Hello fellow primates,
I've recently completed an internship with a boutique M&A firm and I want to break into S&T at a larger firm. What skills and experience are worth highlighting to catch the recruiters eyes and is it worth omitting the M&A experience since it may label me as a banker instead of a trader?
Thanks in advance for any advice
It depends somewhat on whether you're more interested in sales or trading. Generally speaking, you want to highlight that you are quantitative, good under pressure, the usual stuff. I wouldn't worry too much regarding getting labeled as a banker instead of a trader. Banks are pretty aware of the fact that in college you don't really know exactly what you want to do, which is why you do internships. Internships are great for getting in with a company, but there also is value in finding out what you don't like. I did an M&A internship over this past summer with a MM bank, found that it wasn't for me and just accepted a FT offer in S&T with a large international bank. Be prepared for the question about why you want to do S&T after doing M&A-you love the markets, you like things to move really fast paced and be able to see immediate results, you thrive in the meritocracy of a trading floor, etc. Don't trash or speak ill of M&A in the process-voice how great of an experience it was and how much you learned but that S&T offers what you are looking for. If possible, try to highlight other things on your resume that shows evidence of your love for the market. Don't stress, Good luck!
Shifting from IB to S&T/research (Originally Posted: 11/20/2013)
Hi guys,
I'm a graduating senior who will be attending a MSF programme in 2014. I did an IB internship at a boutique this past summer, and frankly didn't like it too much. The hours and the repetitiveness of the work really got to me. I am considering shifting to something more markets focused like S&T/Research which I feel that I will like a lot more. However, I do have the following concerns:
1) I have already moved from Big 4 Corp finance (Sophomore summer) to BB Quant Research (Junior year off-cycle) to Boutique IB (Junior year Summer) for my internships. Is jumping to S&T/Research going to turn off employers by portraying me as indecisive ?
2) How favorably is IB experience looked at when interviewing for S&T/Research roles? Is shifting from IB to S&T/Research going to put me at an insurmountable disadvantage as compared to guys with prior experience in markets related roles? I'd hate to have to start out at the bottom all over again if my past experience isn't considered relevant. I have BB Quantitative Research (statistical modeling, econometrics, etc.) experience if that counts for anything.
I will soon be applying for pre-MSF summer internships, so I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this matter. Would be grateful if someone who has jumped from IBD to S&T/Research could chime in as well.
bump
.
You could say that your interested in more faster paced actions,as investment banking deal flow is usually very slow. Also, you could always talk about the hours.
Thanks. fast paced environment is definitely whats drawing me to trading. i love products and the markets but cannot tolerate the banking aspect any longer. the biggest issue i am struggling with right now is how to answer a question along the lines of:
'well if you knew all along you'd want to be a trader, why did you not apply to S&T out of college and chose IBD instead"
also want to avoid being the classic case of escaping IBD for S&T re: better hours. my hours are extremely tolerable compared to some other groups at my BB and that's honestly not the reason for my move.
IB to S&T? (Originally Posted: 07/18/2011)
I'm currently a rising junior (graduating 2013) working at a boutique investment bank. I intended to position myself for BB IB SA internships, but I'm two months in and realizing that I'm not at all interested in being a PP monkey for 100 hours a week. The IB work I'm doing is all focused on transactions, and I'm much more interested in following markets. Basically, I'm bored as fuck. Is it possible for me to spin my IB internship into a BB S&T SA gig, or have I piegeonholed myself with my IB gig?
As background, I'm at a target (public school) majoring in business. Coursework covered math through differential equations, stats.
If you network anything is possible
Truth. Guess my question is how an IB internship would be viewed during interviews.
You definitely haven't pigeon holed yourself in any way. Heck, most sophmores are doing PWM right now.IB experience is great when applying to S&T. it shows you can handle hard work and pressure. kids from my IB BB summer class last year got to interview for S&T roles at the end of the summer for FT positions. You have a whole summer to do S&T. Just apply next year and tell them you enjoyed IB (don't say you hate it!), but that you realized you are much more interested in following markets than the transaction based work of IB - pretty legit reason. Good luck
Thanks SB for you
Yea you are in a great position for S&T internships. I did a PE internship the year before the official junior internships and it was talked about at all of my S&T interviews. And its really easy to spin it in the sense you gave it a shot but realized that markets are more for you.
IB Analyst --> S&T (Originally Posted: 04/26/2010)
I'm finishing up my first year in IB as an analyst at a top firm and since almost the beginning, I've felt that this job wasn't for me. I can't blame it on the people--aside from a select few, my group has been great thus far. I can't blame it on the hours--I've had some crazy weeks, but for the most part I average ~70-80 a week and don't often feel worn out by the demands of the job. From early on, however, I've felt that the work wasn't all too interesting to me.
I come from a relatively humble background and had to take on loans/work to put myself through school. I had a general interest in finance from early on in college and junior year had offers to do both S&T and IB. However, I ended up choosing IB against my gut instinct simply because it was safer. I'm not a risk averse persion by nature, but when it came to a fear of failing in S&T and being unable to pay down my loans, I chose the safer route. Since then, I've regretted my decision.
I've heard the age-old argument often: that a banker can't be a trader and vice versa. However, I think that out of necessity a person can be anything they need to be. I don't think that the Mexican woman that cleans my office was born to do the job or that she enjoys it, but she does it to help support her family. Based on my personality and interests, I think I would enjoy trading a hell of a lot more than I've enjoyed my job thus far.
With that said, I have interviews coming up for some hedge funds--some brand name, others not. Personally, I don't care about brand as long as I can learn a lot, like the people and rake in a solid paycheck. My hesitation with taking one of these jobs is that I'm worried I'll end up just being treated like a banker: doing comps and modeling instead of ever being in charge of my own book (which seems to be the most likely scenario).
What should I do in my situation? If I want to TRADE, do I start networking with traders at BBs and try to work my way into a job at a desk? Or, granted that I get an offer, do I take a job at a HF?
Trading jobs on the buy-side are quite different from trading jobs on the sell side. On a sell-side job, it's mostly about flow trading. This is not the case at a hedge fund. It seems like a sell-side trading job is what you're looking for. You will not be getting your own book for at least a few years though.
I've seen people go from IBD to trading. Some firms allow for internal mobility after 2 years. If your firm doesn't have this, then just network and apply, you shouldn't have any problems.
Switching from Banking to S&T - Possible? Probable? (Originally Posted: 04/15/2010)
So, I'm a 2nd year analyst at JPM, spent a year and a half in debt capital markets and then switched into credit analysis mainly because my life was slowly falling apart as a result of working 18 hours a day and partially because i needed/wanted a stronger background in corp. fin fundamentals, having no collegiate accounting or finance background.
I hate banking. I hate everything about it. I'm an incredibly social, gregarious person and for the last 2 years of my life, the most significant relationship I've had has been with my computer and excel. I feel like I am slowly atrophying.
I spent my junior summer as an S&T intern at GS (why I gave it all up to go into banking is beyond me). I would give anything to get back into institutional sales, but it seems impossible. Moving across entire divisions at JPM is a nightmare, I know no one who has moved from banking --> S&T. I'm willing to trade down to a much less prestigious bank, willing to take a pay cut etc anything.
Does anyone have any advice for me? Is my only option to go back to bschool and get into an associate program at somewhere like Credit Suisse etc? I have a third year offer, so I'm not looking at a do or die time frame, but I do need to get out as soon as humanly possible so that I don't kill someone (or myself).
just out of interest, what made you decide to go for banking after an S&T summer stint? was it just 'the grass is always greener..."?
Re - Convert Your Bond. I hated GS (personal preference) and had done a thesis on public private partnerships, JPM's P3 (infra) group came calling and they were one of the better American BB's on the scene for that type of transaction, so I said yes. Oh the follies of our youth....
its possible, ive done it. actually come from a similar background as you, was a public finance banker and worked on some privatization stuff but mostly energy/infrastructure. you cant rely on HR to do this for you, you have to network aggressively with people yourself. get in touch with senior people and ask to buy them coffee to discuss their careers to date, how they got into the business/where they are today, what they would do with your background wanting to get into sales, etc... you have the necessary FI background and understand cash flow modeling so thats a selling point for you. also you know credit analysis from doing these deals & your current role so id be contacting everyone/anyone in rates/credit sales
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